Debate Now A Hard Look at the MAGA Movement

[JoeB131]

We need welfare reform to encourage welfare bums to take jobs they might prefer to avoid

We tried that under Clinton. It failed.

The problem is, the "Welfare bums" you complain about don't actually exist. Most people on welfare are either disabled, minors, or the elderly. Most people on welfare are only on it for a few years. A lot of people on some assistance programs DO have jobs, just not ones that pay well enough to pay for necessities.

The idea that there is some untapped labor pool out there is just laughable.

Right now, the labor participation rate is about 63%. It's never been higher than 69%, and it started declining in 2011 when the first baby-boomers started hitting retirement age.

In 2014, the BLS observed that of the 35% of the population that wasn't part of the labor force at that time, 6.5% were ill or disabled, 15.4% were elderly or retired. 5.4% had home responsibilities, and 6.4% were going to school.

People who are not in the labor force: why aren't they working?

People who are neither working nor looking for work are counted as “not in the labor force,” according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Since 2000, the percentage of people in this group has increased. Data from the Current Population Survey (CPS) and its Annual Social and Economic...

www.bls.gov

 

[JoeB131]

Disagree 100%. Americans could have families with many Children if not forced to work sunup to sundown to death to pay for ungratefull non-working citizens and millions more Illegals AND a GOVT that spends 50% more than its Contstitutional obligations. We have to cover 30 car caravans to haul a brain-dead corpse to Scotland for a GW conference. 5Star hotels with few congress persons renting out entire floors for weeks (security). Just on example of millions of them.

Hey, dummy, most of what government spends is on Social Security, Medicare and the military. There just isn't that much to cut.

The reason why so much of it falls on the working class is we don't make corporations or the rich pay their fair share.

I just laid out above why the supposed welfare bum is kind of a myth.

Decades of Deep State policy caused any decline. HS College students used to cut lawns and carry bricks as they learned the value of work.

You are almost at a point here. When I went to college, I worked two minimum-wage jobs and was in the National Guard.

Kids don't do that anymore. Why? They've realized that it's kind of pointless. A minimum wage job won't even put a dent into a college tuition today. It's better to just take out a loan, get some scholarships, and hope you land a lucrative enough job after college to pay off your debts.

 

[Mac-7]

We tried that under Clinton. It failed.

The problem is, the "Welfare bums" you complain about don't actually exist. Most people on welfare are either disabled, minors, or the elderly. Most people on welfare are only on it for a few years. A lot of people on some assistance programs DO have jobs, just not ones that pay well enough to pay for necessities.

The idea that there is some untapped labor pool out there is just laughable.

Right now, the labor participation rate is about 63%. It's never been higher than 69%, and it started declining in 2011 when the first baby-boomers started hitting retirement age.

In 2014, the BLS observed that of the 35% of the population that wasn't part of the labor force at that time, 6.5% were ill or disabled, 15.4% were elderly or retired. 5.4% had home responsibilities, and 6.4% were going to school.

People who are not in the labor force: why aren't they working?

People who are neither working nor looking for work are counted as “not in the labor force,” according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Since 2000, the percentage of people in this group has increased. Data from the Current Population Survey (CPS) and its Annual Social and Economic...

www.bls.gov

What I often hear from lib apologists for the need for welfare is the future loss of jobs due to artificial intelligence

Yet you want to want to import for people that other libs think we do not need

 

[JoeB131]

What I often hear from lib apologists for the need for welfare is the future loss of jobs due to artificial intelligence

The fear of being replaced by a machine has been going on my whole life...and probably before.

When they develop an AI that can clean toilets, pick lettuce, or take care of little Yuppie kids, let me know.

Yet you want to want to import for people that other libs think we do not need

I wouldn't know what "other libs" you are talking about.

Here's the thing. I used to work in a plant that manufactured electronic components before they moved those jobs to Malaysia.

On the plant floor, they determined that there were 19 different languages spoken by the employees, including Spanish, Polish, Hindi, Gujarati, Vietnamese, Khmer, Russian, Romanian, Visiyan, Japanese, Mandarin, and a few others I don't remember. I used to joke that our average employee should have been named "Maria Patel" because half of them were named Patel and the other half were named Maria.

 

[Mac-7]

The fear of being replaced by a machine has been going on my whole life...and probably before.

When they develop an AI that can clean toilets, pick lettuce, or take care of little Yuppie kids, let me know.


I wouldn't know what "other libs" you are talking about.

Here's the thing. I used to work in a plant that manufactured electronic components before they moved those jobs to Malaysia.

On the plant floor, they determined that there were 19 different languages spoken by the employees, including Spanish, Polish, Hindi, Gujarati, Vietnamese, Khmer, Russian, Romanian, Visiyan, Japanese, Mandarin, and a few others I don't remember. I used to joke that our average employee should have been named "Maria Patel" because half of them were named Patel and the other half were named Maria.

The problem with you is you dont want the American people to control immigration but rather have the immigrants decide

Thats not the way it should work

 

[Flopper]

Over 10 milion on Bin Bidens watch. Asylum claim needs to go away. Its BS

They are working here with fake ids and SSNs. They have been doing it since Reagan.

IRS Admits It Encourages Illegals To Steal Social Security Numbers For Taxes

I believe that number is incorrect because it includes the number legally in the country waiting for immigration hearing.

Today, US employers are required to verify the identity and employment authorization of all new hires, regardless of citizenship or national origin, to comply with federal immigration law. This includes those with work permits as well as other accepted forms of identification.

 

[Flopper]

You are a globalist even if you choose not to say so

By definition a globalist is a person who advocates the interpretation or planning of economic and foreign policy in relation to events and developments throughout the world.

In a nation where consumers and businesses depend on 3.8 trillion dollars in imports and 3 trillion dollars in exports, it would be pretty stupid not to interpret planning of economic and foreign policy in relation to events and developments in the world. For at least, the last 75 years all US planning and foreign policy has been done by globalist and it will continue to be.

 

[Mac-7]

For at least, the last 75 years all US planning and foreign policy has been done by globalist and it will continue to be.

IAW, policy based on whats best for the whole world instead of America

And policy “best for the world” based on the lib man-made global warming doomsday hoax combined with white-guilt

To which I say YUK!

 

[leftwinger]

I believe that number is incorrect because it includes the number legally in the country waiting for immigration hearing.

Spinning stalling dumb OX. That is the problem. I don't care if they are going to see uncle Hector. They walked in illegally. Then came up with some BS excuse. SHUP clown.

The border patrol itself admits to millions in catagories. No mention of the millions of "Got Aways" those that don't want to get looked at too closely or those hauling drugs.

 

[Flopper]

Um, no, actually, those treaties protect our citizens when they travel overseas.



Um, no. Probably hard to do that. Once they become citizens, they can sponsor someone else.



Why not? Frankly, if anything, we probably need more immigrants because Americans aren't reproducing at replacement rates.


You must have been one of those kids who kept touching the stove after you were told not to.

My wife got her permanent residency card today, I know that just burns you up.

There are several other reasons we need more immigrants.

• They do the kind work that Americans can't or won't do
• 25% of immigrants own their own business comparted to only 7% of of Americans
• In general, legal immigrants are more likely to vote, particular 2nd generation because they put a much high priority on voting than most Americans.
• Immigrants both legal and illegal are less likely to commit crimes than native born Americans.
• 2nd generation American are more family orientated, more optimistic about American and their place in it, more likely to join the military or serve their country in other ways, and more likely to be bi-lingual than most Americans.
• Lastly, immigrants and their offspring's are in many respects, the life blood of American. They bring new ideas, an appreciation of what it means to live in a free country where you can be whatever you choose to be.

 

[Flopper]

It is MASSIVE ABUSE

Maybe it is at this time but not historically. Asylum has saved the lives of countless numbers of people who should be save such as the mothers and children in Africa facing genocide, Afghans who worked with Americans and risking their lives fighting the Taliban, Cuban fighters that fought beside Americans opposing Castro, intelligence operatives and their families who faced certain death because they helped the United States, women and children being forced into the drug or sex trade by the gangs that are part of the cartels.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Maybe it is at this time but not historically. Asylum has saved the lives of countless numbers of people who should be save such as the mothers and children in Africa facing genocide, Afghans who worked with American and risk their lives fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan, Cuban fighters that fought beside Americans opposing Castro, intelligence operatives and their families who faced certain death because they helped the United States, women and children being forced into the drug or sex trade by the gangs that are part of the cartels.

Yes, the asylum process was much different back when you didn't have hundreds of thousands knocking on the door, a president who doesn't care, a vice president who is totally clueless, and a party that is only interested in more voters for it's policies.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Immigrants both legal and illegal are less likely to commit crimes than native born Americans.

O.K. Love to see that statistic.

Also want it broken down by race.

 

[Flopper]

We can still have immigrants

But lets make sure they are highly educated and skilled

As you can attest, many educated chinese, koreans, japanese and indians want to immigrate to America

But libs want to flood America with uneducated poor people from central America and other places

Highly educated and skilled Asians come to the US for better job opportunities, educational opportunism, and a better standard of living. That is not the case in most of the rest of the world. We would loved to have more high skilled workers from Sweden, Norway, German, UK, etc but they are not interested in immigrating. If we were ok with turning our culture into and Asian culture we could get all high skilled workers we needed.

 

[Flopper]

Yes, the asylum process was much different back when you didn't have hundreds of thousands knocking on the door, a president who doesn't care, a vice president who is totally clueless, and a party that is only interested in more voters for it's policies.

Many of those knocking on our door include those that are just as deserving as those mention above. However, the deplorable living condition where these people come from is bringing in many that do not meet the asylum requirements. It's a problem we can solve without going far left or far right. All it takes is the right laws and adequate funding.

The biggest obstacles in solving the problem is the two pollical parties. People that are intimately familiar with the problem could create a real solution but it would never fly because it would not be in line with the political ideology of the parties.

 

[Concerned American]

What policies and legislation does the MAGA movement claim should be implemented?

I would settle for a reversal of every piece of legislation and EO that was signed by Joe Biden since Jan 20, 2021

 

[Mac-7]

Highly educated and skilled Asians come to the US for better job opportunities, educational opportunism, and a better standard of living. That is not the case in most of the rest of the world. We would loved to have more high skilled workers from Sweden, Norway, German, UK, etc but they are not interested in immigrating. If we were ok with turning our culture into and Asian culture we could get all high skilled workers we needed.

Some are

But dont overlook Eastern Europe

I dont want promote any country or race

But lets not prohibit white immigrants for the sake of misbegotten diversity either

 

[HikerGuy83]

adequate funding.

For what ?

And why should that fall on the shoulders of people already dealing with things like grocery prices that are 30% higher than two years ago ?

 

[HikerGuy83]

The biggest obstacles in solving the problem is the two pollical parties. People that are intimately familiar with the problem could create a real solution but it would never fly because it would not be in line with the political ideology of the parties.

What obstacles ?

You want to allow them a safe place, set them up a huge tent city in the desert while they await the process.

They'll live and be fine, but we won't have the uncontrolled idiocy of today.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Highly educated and skilled Asians come to the US for better job opportunities, educational opportunism, and a better standard of living. That is not the case in most of the rest of the world. We would loved to have more high skilled workers from Sweden, Norway, German, UK, etc but they are not interested in immigrating. If we were ok with turning our culture into and Asian culture we could get all high skilled workers we needed.

Correct, but given our "open door policy" (as in we opened it and walked away from it), we get all kinds.

Europe is swinging hard back right for one reason.....immigration. They are tired of being over run.