A Conservatives assessment of the Iran war

[Lesh]

Is it in pieces?



So, you understand that considering the geography, that Iran being able to threaten traffic on the straits, is to be expected.


We would have to exterminate the whole country, to stop that.

Do you want TRump to exterminate the Iranian people?



I don't know that any human is capable of fully understanding the world economy.

It is too big and too many factors interacting in ways that we do not fully understand.

I do understand that Iran closing the straits hurt the world economy.

What is YOUR point, with that?

Apparently is is TRUMP who doesn’t understand geography

 

[Oddball]

It is not just liberals that are saying that we effectively lost the war with Iran, but also many Conservatives. I guess we just did not realize what nation Trump was referring to when he spoke of Unconditional Surrender.

MSN

The buried lede: There IS a leftist media.

They've finally come out in the open and admitted it.

 

[Correll]

Here are a few obvious ones.

The US has abandoned its roles guardian of commerce in the Persian Gulf.

With the rise of drone (and missile) tech, our ability to PROTECT shipping has been declining. And with Iran's long coast line, right there, this was always going to be a problem.

It would take a very strong response to make Iran back down on this. Like seriously threatening to conquer and occupy the country.

We COULD do that, especially if we had a sane Europe backing us, and were wiling to play hardball. Like WWI, hard ball.

But we are not there, not right now.

Which may give rise to challenges to our role as guarantors of freedom of the seas. China may challenge over the Straits of Mallaca or even Taiwan.

CHINA is far more vulnerable to loss of sea lanes than we are. THey are not going to be loving this trend.

Indeed, we with our massive coasts on BOTH world oceans, are possible in the BEST position to deal with this tread, of anyone.

sour allies don’t trusts, as we have repeatedly demonstrated our inability to protect global interests.

Iran has paid a pretty heavy price for their actions. A lot of dead leaders, and a lot of blow up shit.

I don't think too many people will be looking at them and saying, "I want to be just like them".

One potentially positive outcome is to convince the industrialized world that there is no security to be gained from continuing to depend on fossil fuels.

Or at least from the persian gulf. I bet money is flowing into Venezulan like crazy. I wonder what is being done in Alaska....?

 

[Mac-7]

Why? Trump is offering Tehran a better deal than Obama did.

They know they can't trust Trump, so stringing him along is (as we have already seen) an effective strategy.

Trump is trapped in his own war. Tehran knows that Trump can't esculate the war, and that he has no support anywhere in the world for what his war.

All they have to do is remind the world periodically that they have de facto control over the straights of Hormuz.

As for Vance. The man isn't particulaly smart or experienced. He got where he was by sucking up to powerful people.

He knows nothing about diplomacy (but neither do Witkoff or Kushner).

And Trump will need a fall guy to dump on once he has concluded his capitulation to Tehran.

I am not opposed to a deal with Iran, including this one.

It isn't a triumph. It's a monument to the mismanagement, failure, and incompetence of the Trump regime.

It has already caused many of our allies to have serious doubts about American leadership, buth now, and in the long term.

Maybe

U.S.-Iran Memorandum of Understanding: Full Text

Read the agreement that the Trump administration has agreed to with Iran’s leaders to end the war.

foreignpolicy.com

The $300 billion is not coming from the US but rather the Arab Gulf oil states

The kicker for me is that iran has no intention of giving up its nuclear weapons program

I think trump is making concession to reopen the Strait of Hormuz because he is wortied about the midterm elections

And that is a sin for the mullahs

 

[Correll]

Iran did support Shite militias in Iraq. That had been predicted.

They had neithre the power or desire to commit themselves directly.

But they could put a stick in the wheel of the Ammerican effort by encouraging people like Al Satyr.

Isreal and Iran wanted the same outcome in Iraq, a weak and unstable government.

The Americans wanted the oil, on their terms.

Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Pearle and Rumsfeld had planned on installing thier puppet, Ahmed Chalabi, as Sadaam's successor.

That is, until they learned that he had been feeding everything the Bush crowd told him straight to Tehran. But, by that time, Bush had already started the war Chalabi helped con him into.

Iran did support Shite militias in Iraq. That had been predicted.

They had neithre the power or desire to commit themselves directly.

But they could put a stick in the wheel of the Ammerican effort by encouraging people like Al Satyr.

Isreal and Iran wanted the same outcome in Iraq, a weak and unstable government.

The Americans wanted the oil, on their terms.

Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Pearle and Rumsfeld had planned on installing thier puppet, Ahmed Chalabi, as Sadaam's successor.

That is, until they learned that he had been feeding everything the Bush crowd told him straight to Tehran. But, by that time, Bush had already started the war Chalabi helped con him into.

Exactly.

When Trump started selling this war, he had me at "Iran".

 

[Correll]

Apparently is is TRUMP who doesn’t understand geography

I think he understood that he didn't want Iran to have nukes.

They clearly are bad actors, and we should not let them have nukes.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

We have not retreated

I understand this is all political for you

The only thing that could make libs happier would be if Iran had sunk one of our carriers

But too bad for you that didn't happen

Unfortunately for me and America the mullahs were not overthrown either

You got that right, for once.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

I think he understood that he didn't want Iran to have nukes.

They clearly are bad actors, and we should not let them have nukes.

LOL............................

 

[Lesh]

I think he understood that he didn't want Iran to have nukes.

They clearly are bad actors, and we should not let them have nukes.

Well he failed there

 

[Correll]

LOL............................

How is that relevant to anything? Do you have a point?

Do you want Iran to have nukes? Do you want Trump to bomb them harder?

 

[Correll]

Well he failed there

YOu telling me he failed to blow up any of their nuke facilities?

 

[Lesh]

YOu telling me he failed to blow up any of their nuke facilities?

Any? That was the goal? To blow up SOME?

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

How is that relevant to anything? Do you have a point?

Did you watch the video?
Trump is not getting any nuclear material and Iran can self regulate their nuclear stockpile.

Do you want Iran to have nukes?

I don't care.
The US should pull everything it has OUT of the region.
Iran has a better chance now, than they ever did this century.

Do you want Trump to bomb them harder?

 

[Correll]

Any? That was the goal? To blow up SOME?

 

[Correll]

Any? That was the goal? To blow up SOME?

What percentage would you consider...significant?

 

[Correll]

Did you watch the video?
Trump is not getting any nuclear material and Iran can self regulate their nuclear stockpile.

Which is unfortunate and you seem to want that. so....

I don't care.
The US should pull everything it has OUT of the region.
Iran has a better chance now, than they ever did this century.

THey have a better chance now that bombs have been falling on their research facilities?

That seems odd. Are there other technical tasks that are improved by dropping bombs on them?

 

[Lesh]

What percentage would you consider...significant?

Something approaching “all” or most

 

[Correll]

Something approaching “all” or most

So, 70%, you would pretend is not relevant?

I respectfully disagree.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Which is unfortunate and you seem to want that. so....




THey have a better chance now that bombs have been falling on their research facilities?

That seems odd. Are there other technical tasks that are improved by dropping bombs on them?

LOL.
Trump is going to bomb a mountain?

It worked last time he obliterated them..........

 

[22lcidw]

LOL.
Trump is going to bomb a mountain?

It worked last time he obliterated them..........


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Our military/industrial complex is a disgrace. We have spent untold trillions on many different white elephant systems over the decades, and we have no idea that this form of warfare did not exist!!! Perhaps they could not make enough profits on this form of war. After the first volleys of a war with China, we are up shits creek.