A Conservatives assessment of the Iran war

[Lesh]

They have their nuclear materials in pieces on the ground.


Control of the straits? You understand how geography works, right?

Actually they have their nuclear material UNDER ground where we can’t get to it.

And yes I understand how geography works.

What’s your point?

Do YOU understand how economics works?

 

[ChristisKing]

We bombed the shit out of them for weeks. We killed them by the thousands.

HOw is this a loss for America?

It isn't, but that was just round one.

This was the inevitable outcome from day one of this illegal war of choice started by Trump.

Only an idiot thinks otherwise.

It wasn't illegal, just not all that thought out.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Actually, the final result of this "war" is not known right now. What we do know is that the entire top level of both the religious leadership and the IRGC has been ELIMINATED. By some definitions, that is "regime change." Most of the replacements of those worthies have also been killed, which means the current leadership, both religious and military, is the "third string," so to speak. Which is not to say that the new guys are any different from the old guys, just not as competent.

We know that the Iranian Air Force is decimated, as is their Navy. We control the skies over Iran, and can hit whatever targets we choose to hit, except for the few targets that are buried so deep under mountains that they are not accessible. We know that the Iranian "government" has agreed to abandon its campaign to make or get nuclear weapons (what those words mean will not be known for years). We know that they have agreed, one way or another, to neutralize the enriched uranium that they claim to have had in waiting.

We know that the Iranian economy is in shambles - not our doing, but still... They lack the water (potable and otherwise), electricity, and hard currency to keep their economy afloat, even with the US$25B that will supposedly be "unfrozen" presently. They have a population that mostly hates and rejects the regime, and a massive diaspora of Iranians who would gladly go back if the situation there were to normalize.

We have the power to virtually force the Strait of Hormuz open, even as IRGC leaders claim that it is closed. Iranian "fast boats" that comprise what is left of the Iranian Navy, have not been seen in at least four weeks, and anyone agreeing to pilot one of such craft is virtually committing suicide at this point. Iran has not yet actually mounted a successful strike on any commercial vessel to date, and "we" have knocked out several vessels seeking to do the bidding of the IRGC.

We have an out-of-control situation in Southern Lebanon, currently managed by the State of Israel, which Iran seeks to use to its advantage, and Our Beloved President seeks to quash that tactic. I think The Donald has effectively cut that tie to the MOU with his recent rants.

We also have an "army" of America-hating TDS sufferers who will characterize this whole thing as a failure, regardless of the actual outcome "on the ground" (I hate that expression). And so it goes.

What Changed After Almost Four Months of War? Analysts Say Not Much.

‘Neither the war nor the agreement ended what U.S. and Israeli officials regard as the main threats emanating from Iran. The country’s nuclear program, while heavily damaged, was not eliminated — its fate punted to future negotiation.

The same goes for its ballistic missiles, which the deal does not address. Iran’s authoritarian regime endured, albeit with new leaders. Its proxies remain a threat to the region. Israel and Hezbollah, the Iran-backed militia in Lebanon, persisted in attacking each other.

By Saturday, even the most significant immediate result of the deal — Iran’s reopening of the Strait of Hormuz, which Mr. Trump had identified as essential — seemed at risk. Iran’s military said it was closing the waterway again, because the United States had failed to stop the fighting in Lebanon. The U.S. military contested that, saying the strait remained open as the agreement stipulated.

“This is not a document the United States agreed to because the war demonstrated a new U.S. military superiority,” said Caitlin Talmadge, a professor at M.I.T. who specializes in Persian Gulf security issues. “I think it’s a document that has resulted from the fact that the United States bit off more than it could chew and doesn’t want to escalate.”’

What’s demented is the blind partisan right trying to defend Trump’s failed, illegal war of choice.

Neither the War Nor Trump’s Deal Terminated the Main Threats in Iran, Analysts Say

Neither the war nor the agreement terminated the main threats emanating from Iran, many analysts said.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Mac-7]

It is not just liberals that are saying that we effectively lost the war with Iran, but also many Conservatives. I guess we just did not realize what nation Trump was referring to when he spoke of Unconditional Surrender.

MSN

I am disappointed that the mullahs were not overthrown by more rational leaders

Hugely disappointed

Which means we fell short of ending the iranian nuclear threat

As long as the mullahs remain in power and can control the Strait of Hormuz they will not give up their enriched iranium stockpile

Not now or 60 days from now

But I would not call it a defeat

More like a stalemate

We hurt them a lot

Just not as much as I wish we had

 

[ChristisKing]

I'm still wondering that all of the conservatives who say that it's only lefties calling out Trump for how bad the war is going right now really actually think that or are just in denial that conservatives are saying it as well and his supporters are dropping like flies right now because of it.

 

[TimFitz]

What implications?

Here are a few obvious ones.

The US has abandoned its roles guardian of commerce in the Persian Gulf.

Which may give rise to challenges to our role as guarantors of freedom of the seas. China may challenge over the Straits of Mallaca or even Taiwan.

sour allies don’t trusts, as we have repeatedly demonstrated our inability to protect global interests.

One potentially positive outcome is to convince the industrialized world that there is no security to be gained from continuing to depend on fossil fuels.

 

[TimFitz]

I am disappointed that the mullahs were not overthrown by more rational leaders

Hugely disappointed

Which means we fell short of ending the iranian nuclear threat

As long as the mullahs remain in power and can control the Strait of Hormuz they will not give up their enriched iranium stockpile

Not now or 60 days from now

But I would not call it a defeat

More like a stalemate

We hurt them a lot

Just not as much as I wish we had

It isn’t a stalemate when one side retreats while the other comes out ahead, no matter how much got blown up.

 

[ChristisKing]

It isn’t a stalemate when one side retreats while the other comes out ahead, no matter how much got blown up.

As much as I hate to admit it you actually have a point for once.

 

[Rawley]

It is not just liberals that are saying that we effectively lost the war with Iran, but also many Conservatives. I guess we just did not realize what nation Trump was referring to when he spoke of Unconditional Surrender.

MSN

Becket Adams is a conservative? Really?

 

[Mac-7]

It isn’t a stalemate when one side retreats while the other comes out ahead, no matter how much got blown up.

We have not retreated

I understand this is all political for you

The only thing that could make libs happier would be if Iran had sunk one of our carriers

But too bad for you that didn't happen

Unfortunately for me and America the mullahs were not overthrown either

 

[Marener]

We have not retreated

I understand this is all political for you

The only thing that could make libs happier would be if Iran had sunk one of our carriers

But too bad for you that didn't happen

Unfortunately for me and America the mullahs were not overthrown either

Nobody has any idea what is going on, and that's by design.

 

[ChristisKing]

We have not retreated

Wasn't that what the alleged peace deal was?

 

[Mac-7]

Nobody has any idea what is going on, and that's by design.

I agree with that

 

[ChristisKing]

Nobody has any idea what is going on, and that's by design.

Wow, you're actually making sense for once too. That's a first for you as well.

 

[Mac-7]

Wasn't that what the alleged peace deal was?

I dont think so

 

[Marener]

Wow, you're actually making sense for once too. That's a first for you as well.

This is what happens when the administration is run by amateurs

 

[ChristisKing]

I dont think so

In my mind it is because we should be continuing to bomb the hell out of Iran. Even the Iranian people want it. I don't know when Trump became such a pansy but I do wish that he would stop clowning around and get back to business.

This is what happens when the administration is run by amateurs

The problem is that I believed that I was voting for a whole lot better than this.

 

[22lcidw]

And we achieved what?

To see your families butchered would be too easy of a death.

 

[Mac-7]

In my mind it is because we should be continuing to bomb the hell out of Iran. Even the Iranian people want it. I don't know when Trump became such a pansy but I do wish that he would stop clowning around and get back to business.






The problem is that I believed that I was voting for a whole lot better than this.

I think we do not have unlimited stockpiles of ordinance to expend on Iran

We need to save something for china when they start a war with Taiwan

 

[ChristisKing]

I think we do not have unlimited stockpiles of ordinance to expend on Iran

We need to save something for china when they start a war with Taiwan

Well you do have a point there but still Trump isn't currently making himself look good with this war and it could possibly cost us the midterms as well.