Zone1 A christian-atheist compromise?

[john54]

I have a simple suggestion for a "middle-ground" on which atheists and christians might reach some compromise.

As it is, atheists have no interest in being christians, let alone in teaching christianity to their children, and christians have no interest in giving up christianity and want it to still be passed down the generations. So what if we agreed to all tell our kids stories of god and christian tales, to enchant youngsters in the magic of it all, but then tell them when they're old enough that god and the biblical legends are myths - but myths that they can one day teach to their children. It's true that Christianity would no longer be a religion, but it would join the ranks of beloved children's folklore alongside Kris Kringle and his slay, the storks who deliver babies, the sandman who visits us in our dreams and the like. While Christianity is dying out, notice how these traditional children's tales remain told, and cherished, from generation to generation.

Wouldn't this be a wonderful way to honor age-old christian traditions while still allowing ourselves to grow up and let go of the myths and legends of our intellectual and spiritual adolescence? I understand that the religion elements might be hard to let go of for some, but just imagine some day having "the talk" with your kid when you tell them the truth about god and they roll their eyes and say, "I knew he wasn't real, dad!" and forgive you for your trickery because of the magic you instilled in their heart. This I think could be a cool thing. Give it a chance?

 

[Meriweather]

As it is, atheists have no interest in being christians, let alone in teaching christianity to their children, and christians have no interest in giving up christianity and want it to still be passed down the generations. So what if we agreed to all tell our kids stories of god and christian tales, to enchant youngsters in the magic of it all, but then tell them when they're old enough that god and the biblical legends are myths

What you don't understand is that God is not a myth; nor is religion/spirituality magic. Perhaps Greek thought says it best. Our world is the shadow of the reality. Christianity is not only a peek into that reality, but a knowledge and understanding of it.

You are proposing to take children even deeper into the shadows, so I don't think many Christians will see your proposal as any kind of compromise at all. You want to take children deeper into the shadows. We want to bring them into the light.

 

[DudleySmith]

Atheists don't have any real problem with Christianity; it's the commies and deviants and pagan cultists who are obsessed with Christianity and its obvious superiority as a social and intellectual revolution. The gimps, perverts, human sacrifice fans, and the money worshiping sociopaths desperately need to extinguish Christianity and it's moral teachings and moderation of human behaviors. Those are in the way of mindless 1960's hedonism and normalizing kiddie raping.

 

[john54]

What you don't understand is that God is not a myth; nor is religion/spirituality magic. Perhaps Greek thought says it best. Our world is the shadow of the reality. Christianity is not only a peek into that reality, but a knowledge and understanding of it.

You are proposing to take children even deeper into the shadows, so I don't think many Christians will see your proposal as any kind of compromise at all. You want to take children deeper into the shadows. We want to bring them into the light.

Well as is I don't think any atheists I know would care to teach their kids christianity so already this feels like a pretty big compromise on atheists' part to include christianity in the lore they tell their children at night, and perhaps on holidays. And of course I don't think atheists would be willing to make this compromise unless christians did their part.

Obviously there are elements that are very important to you that you would want passed on, like the light and shadow elements. We could include these elements in the lore of course but the obvious problem with including all of these fantastic-type plots in the Bible is that kids are savvy and can be skeptical. George R. R. Martin put it well, that you don't want to include more than 7 fantasy elements in a fantasy or it will be too much for the average reader. In this scenario, I'd want to settle on just 7 elements from the Bible, whether it's walking on water or world floods etc. More than that is probably asking a bit much.

 

[occupied]

Atheism is not just one thing any more than Christianity. For every zealous atheist with an axe to grind there are many more that are just not religious.

 

[MarcATL]

Atheism is not just one thing any more than Christianity. For every zealous atheist with an axe to grind there are many more that are just not religious.

Basically

 

[pknopp]

I have to say this seems to be a problem I never considered a problem.

 

[john54]

I have to say this seems to be a problem I never considered a problem.

Yeah, isn't it a simple-yet-elegant solution? As is, only Christians can enjoy Christianity, but if we let it take its place in the 'hallowed halls of myths and legends' as it were, then all children could enjoy it for the value of its magic and fantasy elements as a sort of bed time fable. I wonder if Christians and atheists could ever come together on this?

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

WHY teach kids fairytales of imaginary characters in the first place?

If you read them a story, make SURE they understand it isn't real and its all made up falsehoods.
Teaching kids to believe in non-existant beings and creatures is detrimental to their psyche and mental aptitude.
Especially when they can weaponize it against others for their own personal gains, like religion does.

Kids should be taught the TRUTH from the beginning, not LIES.
If you're going to let them make up their own minds, then do it from the start. Not after they've been mentally warped by decades of lies and falsehoods.

 

[john54]

WHY teach kids fairytales of imaginary characters in the first place?

If you read them a story, make SURE they understand it isn't real and its all made up falsehoods.
Teaching kids to believe in non-existant beings and creatures is detrimental to their psyche and mental aptitude.
Especially when they can weaponize it against others for their own personal gains, like religion does.

Kids should be taught the TRUTH from the beginning, not LIES.
If you're going to let them make up their own minds, then do it from the start. Not after they've been mentally warped by decades of lies and falsehoods.

But the magic! You never got to experience waiting for Santa to arrive? Or putting your tooth under your pillow for a magic reward the next day? Christianity has great potential to live on as one of the great 'enchanted childhood experiences' with its smiting god and world floods and water walking if it would just drop its religious aspects, and move to the fiction shelves of the library. That's all atheists really want.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

But the magic! You never got to experience waiting for Santa to arrive? Or putting your tooth under your pillow for a magic reward the next day? Christianity has great potential to live on as one of the great 'enchanted childhood experiences' with its smiting god and world floods and water walking if it would just drop its religious aspects, and move to the fiction shelves of the library. That's all atheists really want.

I must have been born a genius, as I never believed in any of that stuff, even though the adults would continually try and get me TO believe it all. It never made sense to me. And Santa? Thats the stuff horror movies are made from..........some perv that can SEE you anytime he wants? Who keeps track of what you do and say in your life, and rewards or punishes you according to HIS whims??? Sounds like a dictatorship government to me!!

 

[john54]

I must have been born a genius, as I never believed in any of that stuff, even though the adults would continually try and get me TO believe it all. It never made sense to me. And Santa? Thats the stuff horror movies are made from..........some perv that can SEE you anytime he wants? Who keeps track of what you do and say in your life, and rewards or punishes you according to HIS whims??? Sounds like a dictatorship government to me!!

I think you must have missed out. Childhood is the time for wonder and awe. Of course to continue believing in myths as an adult isn't healthy, which is what I find concerning about Christians as they are in their current state. But all it would take to preserve their traditions is to switch from "religion" to "myth," and just like that, 'the adventures of jesus' could become a celebrated folktale for all. I still think with some convincing Christians might be willing to get in on this...

 

[1srelluc]

I have to say this seems to be a problem I never considered a problem.

Yep.....I bet if a guy of say from the mid-1600s of reasonable intelligence for the era sprung to life today they would be amazed at how well they all sorta tolerate each other.....And he would not have to worry about being burned at the stake just for springing to life.

 

[Blues Man]

I have a simple suggestion for a "middle-ground" on which atheists and christians might reach some compromise.

As it is, atheists have no interest in being christians, let alone in teaching christianity to their children, and christians have no interest in giving up christianity and want it to still be passed down the generations. So what if we agreed to all tell our kids stories of god and christian tales, to enchant youngsters in the magic of it all, but then tell them when they're old enough that god and the biblical legends are myths - but myths that they can one day teach to their children. It's true that Christianity would no longer be a religion, but it would join the ranks of beloved children's folklore alongside Kris Kringle and his slay, the storks who deliver babies, the sandman who visits us in our dreams and the like. While Christianity is dying out, notice how these traditional children's tales remain told, and cherished, from generation to generation.

Wouldn't this be a wonderful way to honor age-old christian traditions while still allowing ourselves to grow up and let go of the myths and legends of our intellectual and spiritual adolescence? I understand that the religion elements might be hard to let go of for some, but just imagine some day having "the talk" with your kid when you tell them the truth about god and they roll their eyes and say, "I knew he wasn't real, dad!" and forgive you for your trickery because of the magic you instilled in their heart. This I think could be a cool thing. Give it a chance?

Why do you think a middle ground is necessary ?

 

[john54]

Why do you think a middle ground is necessary ?

So we can live together and fantasy and reality can sort themselves out?

 

[Blues Man]

So we can live together and fantasy and reality can sort themselves out?

So you basically want to make Christians believe their religion is a fantasy. That's not a middle ground that is you imposing your beliefs on another.

 

[john54]

So you basically want to make Christians believe their religion is a fantasy. That's not a middle ground that is you imposing your beliefs on another.

On any middle ground, wouldn't christians also be trying to convert non believers? Let the truth prevail

 

[Blues Man]

On any middle ground, wouldn't christians also be trying to convert non believers? Let the truth prevail

That is not a middle ground you are describing the status quo and that is not the scenario you laid out.,

 

[expat_panama]

I think you must have missed out. Childhood is the time for wonder and awe. Of course to continue believing in myths as an adult isn't healthy, which is what I find concerning about Christians as they are in their current state. But all it would take to preserve their traditions is to switch from "religion" to "myth," and just like that, 'the adventures of jesus' could become a celebrated folktale for all. I still think with some convincing Christians might be willing to get in on this...

Let's first remember Arthur C. Clarke's 3rd law: "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." That's a reality that explains why we can experience magic in our daily lives, it's the fact that we really can't understand everything. A second thing to consider is how much of our supposed differences are in fact merey differences in how we word things, not differences in our actual understandings. You could call me a "theist" if u want. Or not. Names & labels are not as useful as many think.

I'd like very much to understand what u mean by "atheist". What I need to know is what u DO believe, not what u don't believe. Do u or do u not believe in an absolute objective truth --I asking if one person can walk up to something and say "that is true", will others --independently-- be found doing the same? Or are u of the understanding a that anyone's idea of truth is completely different from anyone else's, it's all personal.

So how are u w/ true/false, good/bad, right/wrong, are they absolute or personal?

 

[john54]

That is not a middle ground you are describing the status quo and that is not the scenario you laid out.,

Literally it is a middle ground, since atheists teaching their kids christianity, even in the context of it being myth, and christians keeping their traditions while switching from "religion" to "myth" would be both sides reaching out pretty far toward eachother. Do you have a different middleground to offer?