48%: The Democratic Party needs to face an ugly reality

[JoeB131]

A Constitutional Mandate is inly a "technicality" to those who ALWAYS want to change the rules when they don't get their way.

The constitution also said that slavery was okay and black people were 3/5th of a white person.

A bad idea doesn't become a good one because some slave owner who shit in a chamber pot and thought bleeding was a valid medical treatment liked it.

The fact Trump never won the popular vote detracts from his legitimacy.

 

[JoeB131]

You can lie to yourself, but you can't lie to us. We live here. We (rational people) know what happened to our country and economy, and we know it had nothing to do with Trump or his policies. It was your (and the Biden's) friends in Communist China.

Yup, there's a Chinaman hiding under your bed right now, Ray, waiting to steal your welfare check.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Sorry, no. They are stuck in adolescence, neither the United States or the World owe them anything.

You keep telling yourself that...

Me, I don't want to live like an Israeli with my foot on the neck of a minority out of fear they will turn on me at any moment.

The truth in no way requires you to believe it, it just is. Here's an idea, create a Go Fund Me page for reparations the blacks will LOVE you for it.

 

[dannyboys]

Yeah I don't get it either. Maybe America in the recesses of our collective soul is as fascistic and authoritarian as any banana republic. Democracy is no longer reliably producing rich, white plutocratic politicians so it must be time to destroy it.

Once again we are a representative republic.

Are we? I would question that assessment when our representatives in government do not seem to be concerned with anyone except billionaires and those who try to represent The People are branded as evil socialists.

The 'billionaire's' are the ones who start businesses which employ millions of people.
Anyone ever see a poor person employing thousands of people?

 

[DukeU]

The Democrats threw out the racists in 1968, and the REpublicans welcomed them with open arms.

Bullshit.

 

[JustAGuy1]

A Constitutional Mandate is inly a "technicality" to those who ALWAYS want to change the rules when they don't get their way.

The constitution also said that slavery was okay and black people were 3/5th of a white person.

A bad idea doesn't become a good one because some slave owner who shit in a chamber pot and thought bleeding was a valid medical treatment liked it.

The fact Trump never won the popular vote detracts from his legitimacy.

Only in your mind and a revisionist view of th 3/5ths clause makes you look stupid.If you want to amend the Constitution concerning the EC have at it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Our money for something that never happened to them. They need to grow up and accept that THEY are responsible for themselves.

Again, you can't pretend that 400 years of institutionalized racism hasn't had an effect. I mean, I know you want to, but you really can't.

So what "effect" has it had?

My father can tell you stories about growing up that would make you cry. It would make you laugh at what we call poor today. But how my father grew up or what he experienced had nothing to do with my life as it was with most white people who's parents or grandparents were lower income.

Your life starts the day you take your first breath, not when your grandfather did.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I'm not running anywhere.....Fascists are leftists,

Lying and running is a fascist trait, one that you consistently display. Affer all, your cult gives you brownie points for doing it.

Let's get back to what all the Trump cult liars are running from, so they can run from it again.

The Nazis possessed all of these very right wing qualities:
---
A fervent embrace of crony capitalism.

Preservation of private property.

A political base among businessmen, not workers.

A murderous hatred of communism

No social safety net, no wealth redistribution.

Subjugation of women to solely a motherhood role.

A desire to safeguard the dominant social and racial heirarchy.
---

I could name some more bad things about Nazis, like fervent nationalism and xenophobia, glorification of the state, censorship, human slavery, death camps, but those bad things are common to all authoritarian regimes, so they don't make the Nazis right-wing.

So, Trump cultists, what are the leftist traits of the Nazis? The fact that none of you can name any would indicate that you're lying, and that you know you're lying, but you lie anyways because it's what the cult demands of you.

Nazis was

Against abortion

Banned smoking

Eliminated crosses

Took guns away

All left wing traits


.

Nazis was

Against abortion

Banned smoking

Eliminated crosses

Took guns away

All left wing traits

I think you are a little confused. The Nazis didn't eliminate crosses. They didn't take guns away. (Ironically, the Allies did after the war.)

As for their position on Abortion, their position was the right wing one. The Nazis were actually the only country to actually execute people for performing abortions.

Your history ignorant?

Of course Hitler took down the crosses on churches and in his famous speech he said " when you pray you can pray to me "

And yes he did ban guns for the jews

 

[Wyatt earp]

A Constitutional Mandate is inly a "technicality" to those who ALWAYS want to change the rules when they don't get their way.

The constitution also said that slavery was okay and black people were 3/5th of a white person.

A bad idea doesn't become a good one because some slave owner who shit in a chamber pot and thought bleeding was a valid medical treatment liked it.

The fact Trump never won the popular vote detracts from his legitimacy.

Good thing are founding fathers where liberal huh?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You can lie to yourself, but you can't lie to us. We live here. We (rational people) know what happened to our country and economy, and we know it had nothing to do with Trump or his policies. It was your (and the Biden's) friends in Communist China.

Yup, there's a Chinaman hiding under your bed right now, Ray, waiting to steal your welfare check.

It's not a Chinaman, it's the CCP. They did this to us and the world.

 

[BothWings]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often a
llowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

The Democrats need to retake control of their party, they need to tell the Neo-Marxists to GTFO because NO Western nation and ESPECIALLY America wants Marxism and wants to collapse Capitalism and replace it with Anarchy and a Communist System.

I totally agree that the main problem is that the Dems have lost control of their party to globalists. This was a result of their own over-accentuated values of tolerance and political correctness which was turned against them. So maybe some reform would also be in order, not just "retaking" the party. Personally, I think it's bullshit that we have such a bipolar system of government at all. There should be more political parties to allow for all the shades of grey in between the extremes. And extremes is right where we're at and we're always being railroaded by the media to choose. Usually the media is biased toward he democrats too. Not always, but usually.

Another BIG MISTAKE that people make...you included...is concluding that the powers that took over the Democratic Party are Marxists, communists, leftists, or any similar ideological entity. The people who took over the party are international business entities. Globalists, who are seeking to literally BUY governments and own them and run them like corporations. And YES, it's for profit. It's not some idealistic social movement. That's just the sales pitch and the packaging they use to attract the customer...who is actually the VOTER What is happening to our country is basically just like a corporate buyout.

This first went public with George H.W. Bush's big New World Order speech. Every president after that echoed that quite literally and with affection until Trump came along and threw his maverick monkey wrench into their agenda. They are crawling the walls trying to grab power back from him. I'm not always pleased with Mr. Trump, but I believe it is absolutely IMPERATIVE that we keep weakening the New World Order and DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES allow them to hold key positions in our government. They are literally corporate agents and spies who are preparing our offices for more and more of their own kind.

Look at schools today. They are bureaucracies run like corporations. THey come up with sales pitches like "it's all for the children". Bullshit! Common Core which was implemented under a Bush, is for the explicit purpose of forcing people to go along with stupid corporate policy and smile. This is preparing our children to be corporate minions. People who are ok with stupidity as long as they're doing it for the company. It's like when companies like Walmart take accounting principles and rename them and force you to use THEIR words and definitions just to bolster their corporate identity.

The reason people inaccurately refer to what's happening as Marxist or communist or leftist...is that like these things, globalists want centralization. But make no mistake. It is capitalism and it's for profit! And it's basically about gaining a monopoly on everything, including government. It has to do with treasuries and banks being taken over by foreign investors. And it's exactly what Thomas Jefferson warned us about. EXACTLY.

 

[gipper]

Agreed. We have a lack of leadership on both sides. This is clearly exemplified by the two bimbos, Joe and Don.

One solution is separation. Give black Americans 13% of the nation geographically and agree to peacefully separate, but remain friendly.

Or we could actually do the DECENT thing and make up for our past misconduct. We could try that. I mean, I know that's a crazy idea.

Frankly, what are black people asking for that is so unreasonable? To be treated the same way by law enforcement white people are?

We did try that. It failed.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The terms 'marxism' and 'socialism' do not scare Americans and will not help the GOP.

So that's why the Progressive Communist Party still has to pretend that they are "democrats"?

 

[Oddball]

Democrats crowed about the EC in 2012 when Obama won re-election. Then they melted down about it in 2016 when Trump won. Their indignation is totally driven by circumstance.

Why would they crow about it. Obama won the Popular vote handily....

I don't want PV and would never want it regardless of how elections turned out. That would just be tyranny of the majority

And so? As opposed to what, the tyranny of the minority?

I trust the people to get these things right, thank you... You clearly don't.

People like you should not have their votes equal to people like me. We need to change that.

The power of the states' minority vote to obstruct will change. In fact, the NPV will law of the land by 2024.

You you going to pull that off, Fakey Jakey?

The same way that McMullen pulled off Utah in 2016!.....Oh wait.

You are right that 2016 has nothing to do with 2020.

Trump is busily throwing the state away all by himself. If he loses the LDS, who think he is terribly immoral, he can't win.

The voters are waiting for the wink from the First Presidency.

I know an awful lot of Utahans, Jake....Nearly all of them detest Romney for being a fraud like you, more so than Trump being a blowhard.

And morality isn't so much as a popcorn fart to LDS, if they could support a carpetbagging crony corporatist on the take like Orrin Hatch for as long as they did.

You just revealed you know nothing about Utah. You don't understand why Romney won so easily in Utah, where he has the status of a moral demi-god. Despite your silly posturing, you clearly do not know Utah at all.

If the FP, who don't like Trump at all and get along with Biden well enough, give the tip off, then it is a done deal.

If AZ, NC, UT, etc., are in play, Trump's in trouble.

Romney won in Utah because of three letters....L....D....S.

Period.

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

Republicans are doing that. Trump is different. The big State Republicans went to the Democrats and Republicans drew people like me in who hadn't been voting for them in decades. It's a new game.

On the other hand, you are supporting the party that's still run, run pass and punt that you're saying you'd like to change

No thanks to changing towards Trumps toxic America.

Democrats have acted this way for 40 years. Stop blaming it on Trump and grow a pair, Darlene

I blame Trump for what he deserves to be blamed for. Actions of Dems don’t excuse any of it.

 

[Oddball]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Jesse Ventura clearly demonstrated that "pulling from both sides" is a loser's game.

All you really need to do to win is motivate around 10%-12% of the electorate (which was the higher-than-normal spike in turnout when he won) that usually stays home, and the "pulling from both sides" crap takes care of itself.

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Spending is the single major issue, and there is no middle ground on that. Immigration is a close second, and once again there is no middle ground.

There’s always middle ground. It’s assholes like yourself on both sides that make getting anything done impossible

There is no middle ground when one side wants nothing to do with it.

Look at this last bill that failed in the House. Democrats wanted 600 bucks extra unemployment. Republicans said they'd settle for 300. They wanted 30 billion for the Post Office. The Republicans said they'd go with ten billion. The Democrats wanted another $1,200 stimulus check and the Republicans didn't go for it, but Nancy didn't even try for any negotiations. It's their way or no way at all, and they refused to meet at this middle-ground you talk about.

Yes, Nancy is being stubborn and uncompromising. You must also include that she presented a plan months ago that got completely ignored by the senate. Both sides are doing the same thing to eachother.

It is true that the Republicans put it on the back burner, but they were not going to pass a bill that may have not been needed. They wanted to give it as much time as possible to see the results of the last boatload of money they spent, and if something was needed, to see what it was first. They were trying to be good stewards of our tax dollars. Good on them.

So when the time came up, the Republicans seen our economy going in the right direction. The market recovered and stable. New housing starts in July up 22.6%. Our hospitals were not overwhelmed with Covid patients. Good? Of course not. It may take many months for things to get good again, but we certainly don't need to go another 4 trillion into debt when we're heading in the right direction.

So when the time came to evaluate the situation, THEN decide how to act, the Republicans trimmed down the bill which the Democrats rejected. Once again, as so many times in the past when they had power, they exercised their motto: It's our way or no way.

Oh come on Ray you don’t really buy that BS do you? They ignored the Dems because they didn’t like their bill and weren’t going to give them the political win. Same reason the Dems are doing it to the republicans now

 

[Oddball]

Argument from authority fallacy. Do you know what you're talking about or not? Your degree is not relevant

Sure it is. It means other people who were experts in the subject agreed I had expertise in it.

Of course, with Trumpsters, Science, History, Math don't matter if it fails to worship their Orange God.

Listen to the asshole who just got owned on history now try to pass his sorry ass off as the authority!

 

[Oddball]

Argument from authority fallacy. Do you know what you're talking about or not? Your degree is not relevant

Sure it is. It means other people who were experts in the subject agreed I had expertise in it.

Of course, with Trumpsters, Science, History, Math don't matter if it fails to worship their Orange God.

Having a history degree doesn't mean you know all of history, Joe. Clearly you don't. It just means you can't get a job without retraining

He got his history degree from the same mill that passed out AOC's econ degree.

 

[Slade3200]

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

And the majors pepper them with frivolous lawsuits challenging that access. Combine that with 'reality tv' media, and there's not much hope. But - the real issue is the stupidity of voters. You simply can't maintain a democracy when voters are so easily manipulated.

This is just a guess, of course, but somewhere around 48% of those who vote in November will be voting for Donald Trump. Without going into the laundry list of obvious examples or any of the standard talking points, there are certainly plenty of reasons not to. Yet he has a perfectly reasonable chance of winning.

Right now, polls show that about 43% of Americans approve of the job he's doing. This, after everything that has happened, and that number should be a very sobering indication of where this country is right now. Personally, I try to understand how these people can do this, but I still only understand some of it.

Anyway, here's the point: Elections are about contrasts. Choices. How can that many people support this disaster of a person? For many of them, they're looking at the alternative. And when those who provide their information and opinions for them point at things like PC and Identity Politics and Cancel Culture and an overall culture in decay, they can make reasonable points not to vote for the Democratic party. Even with, amazingly, this profoundly damaged person in the White House.

It's certainly too late to make any changes before November, but the Democratic party had a chance to take over the middle, and I don't see that happening. There is no excuse, zero, none, for the race to be this close. Regardless of who wins, the Democrats have too often allowed the wrong voices to represent them. It allows the Trumpsters to tie all the silliest crap coming from the hardcore Left to the milquetoast, feeble Biden.

This should be a learning experience, but I'm doubtful.

I’ve been talking to a lot of Republicans about this and I actually hear a lot of them say that they really don’t like the man Trump is or how he acts, but they dislike the Dems even more as they don’t believe in many of their extreme policy objectives. So they are voting for Trump because of the common enemy not because they support all he does and says.

I think you’re right about the way the wings play into this. If the Dems go hard on the progressive causes... anti-gun, PC, cancel culture, raising taxes, regulating energy etc they are going to isolate many swing voters and push them into Trumps camp.

The problem is, if Trump wins again, the Dems STILL won't look in the mirror.

This is madness.

If the Dems lose and trump goes for another 4 then it’s rip for a third party to come in 2024. I’d love to see a strong play for that if that’s the situation

What do you need a third party for?...Better you purge your own party of the Marxist crackpots that are infesting it.

Because the Reps and Dems are too big, too powerful and too corrupt. People need to run on ideas and accomplishments not on a party line. We don’t need parties anymore except to raise millions of dollars to campaign with which is the root of the problem.

You have NFI what you're up against.

I worked with the Libertarian Party for two cycles...You'll never get your third party over the ballot access restrictions imposed by the states.....The LP spends millions and millions every year just to get on the ballot.

It’s gotta be a Perot, Cuban, Bloomberg type with the cash to do it and they have to run on Campaign reform to break up the Rs and Ds

Perot was a one-off and the hurdles in many states are even higher now because of his candidacy....The debates are now closed to anyone but (R) & (D) because of him.

I worked in the trenches, while you're spitballing on a message board....You have next to zero chance of getting any new third party on enough ballots to do anything.

I never said I was working to do that I just said I think it would be a great thing for our country if we elected somebody outside of the Reps or Dems and ran our elections in a different way

And I'm telling you that it's a total pipe dream.....The (D)s and (R)s have erected enough barriers so as to make the prospect next to impossible.

That’s very sad if true

I'm afraid it is. I used to think that when the two major parties got bad enough, people would wake up. Clearly, that's not happening. People are stuck on the fear-game - lesser-of-two-evils. Until we neutralize that, by changing to ranked-choice or approval voting, idiot voters are going to keep voting for shitty candidates.

It would be interesting to see if a candidate could exist that pulls equally from
Both sides... my thoughts would be anti-establishment, Fiscal conservative, socially liberal, and able to recognize middle ground on all the major issues. Tough part is the wingnuts are ruling the day so compromise is a dirty word

Jesse Ventura clearly demonstrated that "pulling from both sides" is a loser's game.

All you really need to do to win is motivate around 10%-12% of the electorate (which was the higher-than-normal spike in turnout when he won) that usually stays home, and the "pulling from both sides" crap takes care of itself.

That’s gaming the system to win elections. It’s not what’s best for our country