Zionism and Nazism: is there a difference that makes a difference?

[MelissaD]

Would they welcome all, no, unfortunately under current circumstances, problem being decedents of dead refugees.

Check points are to prevent suicide bombers.

Things got all screwed up while Arafat was alive, the Jews have to appease the USA and we in turn appease Saudi Arabia. Not being at home my library is not behind me so just going by memory I think it was Carter who began appeasement, had to be an earlier administration, maybe Johnson.

Appeasement for decades has created this problem, nothing more, we should of demanded basic human rights in Saudi Arabia years ago.

So if israel doesn't welcome, then it's not a true democracy (and can't fall back on the "human rights" argument), as they only let certain people vote. Being a democratic country isn't just about having several parties.
Plus, real democratic countries don't need checkpoints every 20 feet to stop outsiders from coming in. And real democratic countries don't have people blowing themselves up as a last resort protest.

jillian, the term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Arabs, and Ethiopian Semites. So anti-Semite means ? Against all these peoples including arabs? Just thought you should know.

I never said anything about true democracy, true democracy is not as good as a republic. As far as real democratic countries I will have to take your word, I dont know of any true democratic countries and as everyone knows, a republic is the best way to go, thats what makes us strong. Confusion makes us weak.

You have a lot to learn, dont worry though, this is easy stuff for me, I have well over a hundred books on Israel, some dating back to the early nineteenth century.

As is the people's republic of China?
That's what israel should be based on? Isn't it already? lol

 

[jillian]

So Israel would welcome all muslims, christians... to come live in peace in israel? Is that why they have check points every 10 feet to control everyone's movements so arabs don't come into israel? Is the wall they put up a sign of peace and acceptance of everyone?
Man, do YOU even believe the crap you write?

Would they welcome all, no, unfortunately under current circumstances, problem being decedents of dead refugees.

Check points are to prevent suicide bombers.

Things got all screwed up while Arafat was alive, the Jews have to appease the USA and we in turn appease Saudi Arabia. Not being at home my library is not behind me so just going by memory I think it was Carter who began appeasement, had to be an earlier administration, maybe Johnson.

Appeasement for decades has created this problem, nothing more, we should of demanded basic human rights in Saudi Arabia years ago.

So if israel doesn't welcome, then it's not a true democracy (and can't fall back on the "human rights" argument), as they only let certain people vote. Being a democratic country isn't just about having several parties.
Plus, real democratic countries don't need checkpoints every 20 feet to stop outsiders from coming in. And real democratic countries don't have people blowing themselves up as a last resort protest.

jillian, the term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speaking peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Arabs, and Ethiopian Semites. So anti-Semite means ? Against all these peoples including arabs? Just thought you should know.

you don't really think you're going to teach anyone anything, do you?

we all know the common use of the word anti-semite. and it has to do with antipathy toward jews. you know, like what you do.

now run along.

thanks.

 

[georgephillip]

What about the Arabs who told the locals to leave?

daveman...It's my understanding events like the one a Deir Yassin had a greater effect on Arab migrations than Arab leaders calling for a wide-open battle space.

Of course that's your understanding -- because it lets you absolve the Arab world of culpability.

The degree of blame Arabs bear for the creation of a Jewish homeland in the heart of a region overwhelmingly Arab seems minuscule at most.

Like most of the violence for profit in our world today, culpability for the Arab-Israeli conflict lies with Western powers (read US and England) instigating the original violence by attempting to create a Jewish homeland in Mandate Palestine where only about one in three citizens was Jewish.

Western capitalists then made (and continue to make) vast fortunes from nurturing the violence through a steady flow
of arms and ammunition.

Just another example of War is a Racket.

 

[georgephillip]

When did Israel declare formal borders?

Why do the maps Israeli children view in their classrooms reveal Israel stretching from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River when the UN partition plan "gave" the Zionists only 55% of that land?

Why does the "democratic" state of Israel have a religious symbol on its flag?

Are individuals in Israel required to carry state-issued ID cards that indicate their religion.

Because the United Nations does not make nations, people do.

Symbol on a flag, same reason the Arab countries put religous symbols on their flags.

I dont know the answer to your last question. I did answer all your third grade questions though, that ought to make you happy.

The United Nations played a prominent role in the creation of Israel.

"In response to Arab pressure,[19] the British Mandate authorities greatly reduced the number of Jewish immigrants to Palestine (see White Paper of 1939 and the Exodus ship).

"These restrictions remained in place until the end of the mandate, a period which coincided with the Nazi Holocaust and the flight of Jewish refugees from Europe.

"As a consequence, most Jewish entrants to Palestine were illegal (see Aliyah Bet), causing further tensions in the region.

"Following several failed attempts to solve the problem diplomatically, the British asked the newly formed United Nations for help.

It was the UN appointed committee, UNSCOP, that was responsible for recommending a partitioned state with separate territories for Arab and Jew in Palestine.

"This 'two state solution' was accepted with resolution 181 by the UN General Assembly in November 1947 by 33 votes to 13 with 10 abstentions.

While Islam incorporates religion and politics in ways the west doesn't (yet), can you name an Arab democracy with a religious symbol on its flag?

The question about the ID card revealing the religion of the person carrying it might be the most important of all as it gets to the heart of whether Israeli Arabs are in fact second class citizens in the Jewish state.

Arab-Israeli conflict - Wiki

 

[daveman]

daveman...It's my understanding events like the one a Deir Yassin had a greater effect on Arab migrations than Arab leaders calling for a wide-open battle space.

Of course that's your understanding -- because it lets you absolve the Arab world of culpability.

The degree of blame Arabs bear for the creation of a Jewish homeland in the heart of a region overwhelmingly Arab seems minuscule at most.

Like most of the violence for profit in our world today, culpability for the Arab-Israeli conflict lies with Western powers (read US and England) instigating the original violence by attempting to create a Jewish homeland in Mandate Palestine where only about one in three citizens was Jewish.

Western capitalists then made (and continue to make) vast fortunes from nurturing the violence through a steady flow
of arms and ammunition.

Just another example of War is a Racket.

Yawn. You seem to think profit is the only motive for war...again, that lets you absolve the Arab world of culpability.

 

[georgephillip]

What culpability does the Arab world bear for the creation of Israel?

Compared to Harry Truman?

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president.

"Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train.

'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.'

"As neither Jack nor I was an anti-Semite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about Truman and the serene corruption of American politics."

I don't suppose war qualifies as serene, but it has been the bedrock of corruption for thousands of years before this country came into existence.

 

[daveman]

What culpability does the Arab world bear for the creation of Israel?

Compared to Harry Truman?

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president.

"Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train.

'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.'

"As neither Jack nor I was an anti-Semite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about Truman and the serene corruption of American politics."

I don't suppose war qualifies as serene, but it has been the bedrock of corruption for thousands of years before this country came into existence.

You're quite the useful tool for terrorists. But you should be aware they would slit your throat without hesitation if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, even if you told them how much you support their cause.

 

[georgephillip]

You've met how many "terrorists?" (Outside the US military)

 

[daveman]

You've met how many "terrorists?" (Outside the US military)

I haven't met any. Especially inside the US military. But I know what they're like. And I know who supports them.

If you don't like me pointing it out, don't support terrorists, dumbass.

Today, of all days, you choose to play that particularly loathsome leftist card?

You're a pathetic, cowardly little piece of shit, aren't you? Oh, right, we established that months ago. You lack the courage of your convictions. You refuse to leave a country you hate. You won't even go to the local VFW and ask how many there are terrorists.

Why?

Because you're a coward.

Yet, there you sit, safe and secure, enjoying the freedom bought and paid for with the blood of men and women better than you, and what do you do with that freedom?

You call them terrorists.

Fuck you, you cowardly little bitch.

 

[georgephillip]

In the immortal words of Pat Tillman Sr...
"Fuck you and yours!"
S-L-A-V-E

 

[daveman]

In the immortal words of Pat Tillman Sr...
"Fuck you and yours!"
S-L-A-V-E

Make me, bitch.

Oh, you can't. That's because you're a coward.

Run along, boy. Felch some more terrorists before they cut your head off.

 

[mdn2000]

daveman...It's my understanding events like the one a Deir Yassin had a greater effect on Arab migrations than Arab leaders calling for a wide-open battle space.

Of course that's your understanding -- because it lets you absolve the Arab world of culpability.

The degree of blame Arabs bear for the creation of a Jewish homeland in the heart of a region overwhelmingly Arab seems minuscule at most.

Like most of the violence for profit in our world today, culpability for the Arab-Israeli conflict lies with Western powers (read US and England) instigating the original violence by attempting to create a Jewish homeland in Mandate Palestine where only about one in three citizens was Jewish.

Western capitalists then made (and continue to make) vast fortunes from nurturing the violence through a steady flow
of arms and ammunition.

Just another example of War is a Racket.

One in three were Jewish, maybe less, that does not make two in three Arab, being this simple one in three is a Jew, one in three is an Arab, one in three is Christian.

Seems by your post Arabs are the minority.

The USA and England you state created Palestine, What policies by which president, you dont need to be specific I just need to know which years roughly you believe this happened.

 

[mdn2000]

What culpability does the Arab world bear for the creation of Israel?

Compared to Harry Truman?

"Sometime in the late 1950s, that world-class gossip and occasional historian, John F. Kennedy, told me how, in 1948, Harry S. Truman had been pretty much abandoned by everyone when he came to run for president.

"Then an American Zionist brought him two million dollars in cash, in a suitcase, aboard his whistle-stop campaign train.

'That's why our recognition of Israel was rushed through so fast.'

"As neither Jack nor I was an anti-Semite (unlike his father and my grandfather) we took this to be just another funny story about Truman and the serene corruption of American politics."

I don't suppose war qualifies as serene, but it has been the bedrock of corruption for thousands of years before this country came into existence.

If you think Truman created or had a hand in creating Israel than you have a difficult argument ahead of you.

Truman at best simply recognized Israel in the United Nations.

Your posts confuse League of Nations history with United Nations history, if you could clarify yourself or be a bit specific your argument will fall apart.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Perhaps if the Palestinians cared more about taking care of themselves than about killing Jews, they could prosper.

Who has prospered more since September 29, 2000?

During that time Palestinians have killed 1,072 Israelis while Israel has killed 6,348 Palestinians.

Now tell me why anyone should profit from the killing?

If Americans Knew

If Palestinians wouldn't kill Israelis, Israelis wouldn't kill Palestinians.

It was Israel that went to Palestine to take over their country. Israel sent its soldiers from neighborhood to town to village driving the Palestinians out of their homes and off their land.

If Israel had not done that, the Palestinians would have no quarrel with them.

 

[mdn2000]

Who has prospered more since September 29, 2000?

During that time Palestinians have killed 1,072 Israelis while Israel has killed 6,348 Palestinians.

Now tell me why anyone should profit from the killing?

If Americans Knew

If Palestinians wouldn't kill Israelis, Israelis wouldn't kill Palestinians.

It was Israel that went to Palestine to take over their country. Israel sent its soldiers from neighborhood to town to village driving the Palestinians out of their homes and off their land.

If Israel had not done that, the Palestinians would have no quarrel with them.

How come their are still Arabs left in Israel if they were all drove off.

 

[hipeter924]

If Palestinians wouldn't kill Israelis, Israelis wouldn't kill Palestinians.

It was Israel that went to Palestine to take over their country. Israel sent its soldiers from neighborhood to town to village driving the Palestinians out of their homes and off their land.

If Israel had not done that, the Palestinians would have no quarrel with them.

How come their are still Arabs left in Israel if they were all drove off.

Hush. He is still pretending that there is such thing as a Palestinian people, rather than an Arab people. His head would explode if he realized that, let alone that Palestinians live happily within Israel without Hamas or Fatah.

 

[mdn2000]

When did Israel declare formal borders?

Why do the maps Israeli children view in their classrooms reveal Israel stretching from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River when the UN partition plan "gave" the Zionists only 55% of that land?

Why does the "democratic" state of Israel have a religious symbol on its flag?

Are individuals in Israel required to carry state-issued ID cards that indicate their religion.

Because the United Nations does not make nations, people do.

Symbol on a flag, same reason the Arab countries put religous symbols on their flags.

I dont know the answer to your last question. I did answer all your third grade questions though, that ought to make you happy.

The United Nations played a prominent role in the creation of Israel.

"In response to Arab pressure,[19] the British Mandate authorities greatly reduced the number of Jewish immigrants to Palestine (see White Paper of 1939 and the Exodus ship).

"These restrictions remained in place until the end of the mandate, a period which coincided with the Nazi Holocaust and the flight of Jewish refugees from Europe.

"As a consequence, most Jewish entrants to Palestine were illegal (see Aliyah Bet), causing further tensions in the region.

"Following several failed attempts to solve the problem diplomatically, the British asked the newly formed United Nations for help.

It was the UN appointed committee, UNSCOP, that was responsible for recommending a partitioned state with separate territories for Arab and Jew in Palestine.

"This 'two state solution' was accepted with resolution 181 by the UN General Assembly in November 1947 by 33 votes to 13 with 10 abstentions.

While Islam incorporates religion and politics in ways the west doesn't (yet), can you name an Arab democracy with a religious symbol on its flag?

The question about the ID card revealing the religion of the person carrying it might be the most important of all as it gets to the heart of whether Israeli Arabs are in fact second class citizens in the Jewish state.

Arab-Israeli conflict - Wiki

The United Nations played no role. They recognized Israel after the fact. The mandate period is before the creation of the United Nations.

The United Nations was created in 1945, thats a long time after the white paper, the Balfour declaration, League of Nations mandates.

You state the mandate's end coincided with the holocaust, it did not, it ended on On May 14, 1948. The British physically prevented Jews from seeking refugee from entering Palestine, ships literally were sent back to Germany sending the Jews to the holocaust. British immigration policy Palestine under governance by the British sent Jews to their death.

The British had to fight an armed revolt in Israel, the Jews physically fought a war or revolt inside of Palestine with the British, the British lost control and were forced out by armed Jews fighting for their lives.

If the British followed the mandate, the Balfour declaration, if the British were just and moral to the Jews, thousands would never of died, maybe millions. How do we know. The British were no friend of the Jews, the Jews rose against them.

Of course the Zionist were on hand to claim victory and be politicians, the revolt was not the Zionist, it was the people of Israel, that is why it was successful.

Nobody respects people who do not fight for their nation, that is why all the emphasis is on the Zionist political history and the armed revolt against the British is ignored completely. The Jews gave their lives fighting the British, as the revolt escalated, after the holocaust, the British could not fight the Jews in light of the the worlds attention on the horrors in Germany.

The British retreated, abandoned Palestine, it was the military reality, that British troops would have to fight a war against the Jews to maintain control of Palestine.

So its stated here that the British and the USA created Israel yet the British were fighting the Jews to give Palestine to the Arabs, with the understanding they would stay to protect the Jews from the Arabs, it did not work out that way for the British.

England attempted to make another Arab state, after a dozen new Arab states had been created.

Israel was not created by England or the United Nations, nor the Zionist.

The flag, how about the Saudi flag, Saudi being the family name, the only country in the world named after a family. Its green, traditional color of Islam. The Arabic writing is the Islamic statement of faith, "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Prophet."

So the flag is no different than Israels, not much of an issue all things considered.

The two state solution, I almost forgot, those who opposed were all the Arab states hence the resolution was never implemented.

 

[P F Tinmore]

If Palestinians wouldn't kill Israelis, Israelis wouldn't kill Palestinians.

It was Israel that went to Palestine to take over their country. Israel sent its soldiers from neighborhood to town to village driving the Palestinians out of their homes and off their land.

If Israel had not done that, the Palestinians would have no quarrel with them.

How come their are still Arabs left in Israel if they were all drove off.

It is not without trying. The Palestinians who remained in Israel were shuffled off into ghettos and placed under military guard until 1967 where they received nominal citizenship. Israel still bulldozes Palestinian homes in Israel and many Palestinian villages still have no running water or electricity. Israel is still trying to find political correct methods to eliminate its Palestinian citizens.

 

[MelissaD]

He is still pretending that there is such thing as a Palestinian people, rather than an Arab people.

Before 1948, there was no such thing as an Israeli either. So what's your point?

 

[mdn2000]

It was Israel that went to Palestine to take over their country. Israel sent its soldiers from neighborhood to town to village driving the Palestinians out of their homes and off their land.

If Israel had not done that, the Palestinians would have no quarrel with them.

How come their are still Arabs left in Israel if they were all drove off.

It is not without trying. The Palestinians who remained in Israel were shuffled off into ghettos and placed under military guard until 1967 where they received nominal citizenship. Israel still bulldozes Palestinian homes in Israel and many Palestinian villages still have no running water or electricity. Israel is still trying to find political correct methods to eliminate its Palestinian citizens.

Nice bullshit, got a name of the ghettos so I have a bit of reference.

Maybe you can fill us in on the war for independence. I will start, Six Arab nations were part of those who opposed the UN resolution and went to war to prevent partition, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Trans Jordan (now Jordan), Lebanon, and Egypt. Each defeated thus peace negotiated with each. Is that correct.

So the name of the Ghettos so I can address that and if you know tell us who negotiated on behalf of the Arabs in Palestine. Somebody must of protested, who, when, where.

Thats ahead of what we are discussing, for we need to know historically how the war ended. How it was fought, against who is very important. So we agree the Jews fought six Arab states.

Quick important fact should be discussed, where did the Jews get the weapons.

Do you know, I ask you, where did the Jews get the weapons they used. I want to see if you know.

Anyhow I am busy reading, I am traveling and not at home so I am at a disadvantage.