YOur kind of Christian; Family Research Council

[Quantum Windbag]

OK. I stand corrected. I've never been a member of any gay or lesbian group in my life.

Your point is that ALL of us gays and lesbians welcomed NAMBLA with open arms. We didn't. NAMBLA was always controversial and most of us never wanted any association with that group. Your view of gays and lesbians is very cynical. You think we ignored what this group was about because they gave 'lip service' to supporting gay rights. We didn't. It was hotly debated between gay men and lesbians. Lesbians NEVER wanted anything to do with NAMBLA but we had far less power than the men. Some men argued that if we objected to NAMBLA it was a form of 'internalized oppression'. That was always a crap argument.

I asked a friend this morning why any gay men would have welcomed this group and she said because some of them experienced their coming out with older boys and men as a positive experience.

That surprises me, and I have a hard time believing it.

There you go putting words into people's mouths again. I already posted about how some groups excluded them. When the ILGA had the vote about kicking them out the vote was 214-30, so I am hardly saying most homosexuals support NAMBLA However, some do, and they to be the most vocal in their activism, and are often vehement in their support of them. Couple that with the fact that some people, like you, are equally as vehement in denying that any connection ever existed, and you gove the conspiracy nuts a lot of ammunition.

Stop reacting with your emotions, accept the truth, and refuse to give people that are trying to tie homosexuality and pedophilia together more ammunition.

Why are you emphasizing that some gays were ok with NAMBLA in the beginning, instead of the truth, that NAMBLA's involvement was hotly contested?

Show proof that lesbians every approved of NAMBLA. Where is the link to that vote? I never got to vote.

People like me? Honest, decent, moral, faithful, hard working, tax paying citizens. I'm not denying there is no connection. I'm saying it's bullshit that gay people support pedophilia.

We want to be able to marry and have children and be treated with equal kind regard as any other citizen.

Why are you saying that I am emphasizing anything? When people point out that we used to have slavery in the US does that mean that there was no debate about the morality?

Why should I show proof that lesbians supported NAMBLA? Or even that they supported adult women being able to have sex with little girls? That is not the point I am trying to make, and I have never argued that they did either.

My point is that your denial of the facts makes it easier for people to argue that there is a "gay agenda" that involves turning children into homosexuals. You need to get past your sensitivity over this in order to be credible.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

None of these links work.

They don't. Is that all that surprising?

She probably took the words off of the SPLC website without actually researching FRC.

Immie

Actually, there are about 20 websites quoting the same FRC pamphlets. FRC has removed them.

But since I'm a big liar and dishonest and a hater etc etc etc. Believe them instead of me.

I have been following FRC for years and they have said everyone of these statements many times.

I bet that I could find 100 sites that quote government documents that "have been removed" that prove that the CIA shot Kennedy, that we never landed on the moon, and that the Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition.

 

[Sky Dancer]

There you go putting words into people's mouths again. I already posted about how some groups excluded them. When the ILGA had the vote about kicking them out the vote was 214-30, so I am hardly saying most homosexuals support NAMBLA However, some do, and they to be the most vocal in their activism, and are often vehement in their support of them. Couple that with the fact that some people, like you, are equally as vehement in denying that any connection ever existed, and you gove the conspiracy nuts a lot of ammunition.

Stop reacting with your emotions, accept the truth, and refuse to give people that are trying to tie homosexuality and pedophilia together more ammunition.

Why are you emphasizing that some gays were ok with NAMBLA in the beginning, instead of the truth, that NAMBLA's involvement was hotly contested?

Show proof that lesbians every approved of NAMBLA. Where is the link to that vote? I never got to vote.

People like me? Honest, decent, moral, faithful, hard working, tax paying citizens. I'm not denying there is no connection. I'm saying it's bullshit that gay people support pedophilia.

We want to be able to marry and have children and be treated with equal kind regard as any other citizen.

Why are you saying that I am emphasizing anything? When people point out that we used to have slavery in the US does that mean that there was no debate about the morality?

Why should I show proof that lesbians supported NAMBLA? Or even that they supported adult women being able to have sex with little girls? That is not the point I am trying to make, and I have never argued that they did either.

My point is that your denial of the facts makes it easier for people to argue that there is a "gay agenda" that involves turning children into homosexuals. You need to get past your sensitivity over this in order to be credible.

I am not denying the facts. I am telling you that NAMBLA inclusion in gay pride events was hotly contested.

You need to leave my sensitivity alone. I don't care if you think I'm credible or not. I'm telling the truth of my experience. If you don't think that's credible, (aka believable) , that's on you.

I am telling you that lesbians do not support NAMBLA. I have asked you for proof of that NAMBLA vote you posted.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why are you emphasizing that some gays were ok with NAMBLA in the beginning, instead of the truth, that NAMBLA's involvement was hotly contested?

Show proof that lesbians every approved of NAMBLA. Where is the link to that vote? I never got to vote.

People like me? Honest, decent, moral, faithful, hard working, tax paying citizens. I'm not denying there is no connection. I'm saying it's bullshit that gay people support pedophilia.

We want to be able to marry and have children and be treated with equal kind regard as any other citizen.

Why are you saying that I am emphasizing anything? When people point out that we used to have slavery in the US does that mean that there was no debate about the morality?

Why should I show proof that lesbians supported NAMBLA? Or even that they supported adult women being able to have sex with little girls? That is not the point I am trying to make, and I have never argued that they did either.

My point is that your denial of the facts makes it easier for people to argue that there is a "gay agenda" that involves turning children into homosexuals. You need to get past your sensitivity over this in order to be credible.

I am not denying the facts. I am telling you that NAMBLA inclusion in gay pride events was hotly contested.

You need to leave my sensitivity alone. I don't care if you think I'm credible or not. I'm telling the truth of my experience. If you don't think that's credible, (aka believable) , that's on you.

I am telling you that lesbians do not support NAMBLA. I have asked you for proof of that NAMBLA vote you posted.

You want me to post the vote again?

In the summer of 1993 the ILGA gained consultative status on the UN Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) as a Non-Governmental-Organization, joining 3,000 organisations throughout the world. However, that status was suspended in 1994 after a campaign led by Jesse Helms focussing on NAMBLA's membership in ILGA.
Following this ILGA, by a vote of 214-30 expelled North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) and two other groups (Vereniging MARTIJN and Project Truth) in early 1994 because they were judged to be "groups whose predominant aim is to support or promote pedophilia." In October 1994, the executive committee of ILGA suspended the membership of VSG (Association for Sexual Equality), a gay group in Munich, Germany, due to its vocal solidarity with NAMBLA and its refusal to purge pedophile members. Its membership was suspended until the next Annual Conference of ILGA in June 1995 when the matter could be dealt with in accordance to ILGA's constitution, namely, expulsion. VSG left ILGA in April 1995 and in 1998 dissolved itself.

International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the way, I never said lesbians support NAMBLA, but since you insist on me providing proof that they do, I present you with the Facebook page for the North American Woman/Girl Love Association.

https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19171932225

 

[Gadawg73]

Why are you saying that I am emphasizing anything? When people point out that we used to have slavery in the US does that mean that there was no debate about the morality?

Why should I show proof that lesbians supported NAMBLA? Or even that they supported adult women being able to have sex with little girls? That is not the point I am trying to make, and I have never argued that they did either.

My point is that your denial of the facts makes it easier for people to argue that there is a "gay agenda" that involves turning children into homosexuals. You need to get past your sensitivity over this in order to be credible.

I am not denying the facts. I am telling you that NAMBLA inclusion in gay pride events was hotly contested.

You need to leave my sensitivity alone. I don't care if you think I'm credible or not. I'm telling the truth of my experience. If you don't think that's credible, (aka believable) , that's on you.

I am telling you that lesbians do not support NAMBLA. I have asked you for proof of that NAMBLA vote you posted.

You want me to post the vote again?

In the summer of 1993 the ILGA gained consultative status on the UN Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) as a Non-Governmental-Organization, joining 3,000 organisations throughout the world. However, that status was suspended in 1994 after a campaign led by Jesse Helms focussing on NAMBLA's membership in ILGA.
Following this ILGA, by a vote of 214-30 expelled North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) and two other groups (Vereniging MARTIJN and Project Truth) in early 1994 because they were judged to be "groups whose predominant aim is to support or promote pedophilia." In October 1994, the executive committee of ILGA suspended the membership of VSG (Association for Sexual Equality), a gay group in Munich, Germany, due to its vocal solidarity with NAMBLA and its refusal to purge pedophile members. Its membership was suspended until the next Annual Conference of ILGA in June 1995 when the matter could be dealt with in accordance to ILGA's constitution, namely, expulsion. VSG left ILGA in April 1995 and in 1998 dissolved itself.

International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the way, I never said lesbians support NAMBLA, but since you insist on me providing proof that they do, I present you with the Facebook page for the North American Woman/Girl Love Association.

https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19171932225

1993?
What about a 2010 vote?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I am not denying the facts. I am telling you that NAMBLA inclusion in gay pride events was hotly contested.

You need to leave my sensitivity alone. I don't care if you think I'm credible or not. I'm telling the truth of my experience. If you don't think that's credible, (aka believable) , that's on you.

I am telling you that lesbians do not support NAMBLA. I have asked you for proof of that NAMBLA vote you posted.

You want me to post the vote again?

In the summer of 1993 the ILGA gained consultative status on the UN Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) as a Non-Governmental-Organization, joining 3,000 organisations throughout the world. However, that status was suspended in 1994 after a campaign led by Jesse Helms focussing on NAMBLA's membership in ILGA.
Following this ILGA, by a vote of 214-30 expelled North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) and two other groups (Vereniging MARTIJN and Project Truth) in early 1994 because they were judged to be "groups whose predominant aim is to support or promote pedophilia." In October 1994, the executive committee of ILGA suspended the membership of VSG (Association for Sexual Equality), a gay group in Munich, Germany, due to its vocal solidarity with NAMBLA and its refusal to purge pedophile members. Its membership was suspended until the next Annual Conference of ILGA in June 1995 when the matter could be dealt with in accordance to ILGA's constitution, namely, expulsion. VSG left ILGA in April 1995 and in 1998 dissolved itself.

International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the way, I never said lesbians support NAMBLA, but since you insist on me providing proof that they do, I present you with the Facebook page for the North American Woman/Girl Love Association.

https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19171932225

1993?
What about a 2010 vote?

Why would they vote in 2010 to do something the 16 years ago?

 

[Gadawg73]

You want me to post the vote again?

International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the way, I never said lesbians support NAMBLA, but since you insist on me providing proof that they do, I present you with the Facebook page for the North American Woman/Girl Love Association.

https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19171932225

1993?
What about a 2010 vote?

Why would they vote in 2010 to do something the 16 years ago?

Homosexuality was a crime in the past and they were sent to jail as late as the 20s around here. Do we want to discuss that?
Why not focus on what we ALL can do together TODAY than dwell on the mistakes of the past?
How about something positive today? Anything to say positively about gay and straight people?

 

[Newby]

STOP CALLING ME A LIAR. HERE'S PROOF:

Gays are pedophiles, and want to promote youth promiscuity. "There is a strong undercurrent of pedophilia in the homosexual subculture. Homosexual activists want to promote the flouting of traditional sexual prohibitions at the earliest possible age....they want to encourage a promiscuous society - and the best place to start is with a young and credulous captive audience in the public schools." - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/insight/is93f1hs.html
*
Gays hate God. "[Homosexuality] is the opposite of love for God. It is a rebellion against God and God's natural order, and embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion." - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays oppose Christianity. "Militant homosexuality is fundamentally opposed to religion, family, and anything that presupposes a natural moral order, a transcendent God, or something else higher than ourselves. The activist homosexual agenda and worldview are fundamentally incompatible with Christianity or any form of true religion, because homosexuality is ultimately narcissism" - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays are diseased, die early, and are less productive than heterosexuals. "homosexual behavior is extremely unhealthy, contributing to the spread of AIDS, hepatitis A, B and C and other sexually transmitted diseases….A study of more than 6,400 obituaries in homosexual publications reveals that homosexuals typically have far shorter life spans than the general population. Other reports indicate that homosexuals are more likely to have drug and alcohol abuse problems. It is unfair to force businesses to pay the extra insurance expense and lost productivity that inevitably results from homosexual behavior." [Editors note: the source for this "research" is the discredited Dr. Paul Cameron - see below for extensive information about his extreme beliefs] - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, testifying at ENDA Hearings, July 29, 1994 - committee on Labor and Human Resources, US Senate.
*
Gays only pretend to oppose pedophilia. "In the United States, homosexual activists are more circumspect about their efforts to gain access to children...homosexual activists publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles as part of a public relations strategy"- "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf

Gays are 33% of child molesters. "they constitute about a third of child molesters." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf
*
The examples go on and on and are clearly NOT statements of religious belief or dogma. The sole intent of the Family Research Council is to malign and denigrate a gays and lesbians, a whole segment of society, and to engender hatred.

None of these links work.

They link to FRC, but FRC has removed some of these documents. "We're sorry, the page you're looking for is no longer available". I'm sure that will make you think I'm a liar. You couldn't possibly believe these folks are that slick.

"The radical homosexual agenda is the frontline of a Totalitarian regime which is hell-bent on coercing traditional businesses and churches into doing things that go against their morality,” says Tony Perkins speaking at Coral Ridge Ministeries.

I give up.

Believe that Scott Lively didn't write the book, The Pink Swastika, Holocaust revisionism, or go to Uganda to stir up hate.

I went out and watched the two videos of Scott Lively that were one one of your linked websites where he was giving some kind of a seminar on homosexuality. The supposed seminar that started the whole controversy in Uganda. They only had bits and pieces of the seminars, I suppose they only showed where they felt he was being 'hateful' because things were obviously cut out. But, all I saw was a man that obviously has a personal cause going because apparently he has two siblings that are gay, and believes that homosexuality is a choice, which many do believe. I didn't see him stiring up hate towards them or saying that they should come to any harm in the videos. The 'seminars' were actually pretty benign from what I saw and the people in the room looked bored. I feel sorry for him, he seems as obsessed with it as you are, just from the opposite side. I don't agree with his views, but in the videos that I saw, he was not hateful or promoting hate either.

 

[Newby]

None of these links work.

They don't. Is that all that surprising?

She probably took the words off of the SPLC website without actually researching FRC.

Immie

Actually, there are about 20 websites quoting the same FRC pamphlets. FRC has removed them.

But since I'm a big liar and dishonest and a hater etc etc etc. Believe them instead of me.

I have been following FRC for years and they have said everyone of these statements many times.

No, you've been following the people who have been bashing the FRC for years and believing whatever they told you without looking into it yourself. Maybe they said it, maybe they didn't, but if they're truly the 'gay haters' that you say they are, why would they be ashamed of it and remove it from their site? That would make no sense. There should be current material on their site this very day then, newer material? Have you ever really looked to see what they have or don't have on there?

 

[Sky Dancer]

When I have more time, I will study the FRC current website from cover to cover.

I will do it as an exercise in overcoming my hatred of them.

I will skip Scott Lively's Holocaust Revisionist book, The Pink Triangle, which explains how gay people caused the Holocaust.

Is that a view you share, Newby?

 

[Sky Dancer]

1993?
What about a 2010 vote?

Why would they vote in 2010 to do something the 16 years ago?

Homosexuality was a crime in the past and they were sent to jail as late as the 20s around here. Do we want to discuss that?
Why not focus on what we ALL can do together TODAY than dwell on the mistakes of the past?
How about something positive today? Anything to say positively about gay and straight people?

Thank you. You are a true friend.

 

[Newby]

When I have more time, I will study the FRC current website from cover to cover.

I will do it as an exercise in overcoming my hatred of them.

I will skip Scott Lively's Holocaust Revisionist book, The Pink Triangle, which explains how gay people caused the Holocaust.

Is that a view you share, Newby?

Why bother with the rhetorical question? You obviously already have come to the conclusion that I do, so whatever makes you happy Sky.

Why don't you comment on the videos that I'm referring too, and tell me what you find in them that would incite hate and violence in others towards gay people?

 

[Sky Dancer]

When I have more time, I will study the FRC current website from cover to cover.

I will do it as an exercise in overcoming my hatred of them.

I will skip Scott Lively's Holocaust Revisionist book, The Pink Triangle, which explains how gay people caused the Holocaust.

Is that a view you share, Newby?

Why bother with the rhetorical question? You obviously already have come to the conclusion that I do, so whatever makes you happy Sky.

Why don't you comment on the videos that I'm referring too, and tell me what you find in them that would incite hate and violence in others towards gay people?

I wouldn't have asked the question if I already knew the answer. Thanks for not answering it. The question remains unanswered. I can live with that.

I think there isn't much point in me pointing out what bothers me about these folks. I have already done that many, many posts. No one seems to hear me. I have to deal with my own hatred of them. That's my work to do as it should be.

 

[Newby]

When I have more time, I will study the FRC current website from cover to cover.

I will do it as an exercise in overcoming my hatred of them.

I will skip Scott Lively's Holocaust Revisionist book, The Pink Triangle, which explains how gay people caused the Holocaust.

Is that a view you share, Newby?

Why bother with the rhetorical question? You obviously already have come to the conclusion that I do, so whatever makes you happy Sky.

Why don't you comment on the videos that I'm referring too, and tell me what you find in them that would incite hate and violence in others towards gay people?

I wouldn't have asked the question if I already knew the answer. Thanks for not answering it. The question remains unanswered. I can live with that.

I think there isn't much point in me pointing out what bothers me about these folks. I have already done that many, many posts. No one seems to hear me. I have to deal with my own hatred of them. That's my work to do as it should be.

If you don't know the answer, then apparently you know me very little, which is a shame, but that's your choice.

No, all you have said is that 'they spread hatred towards gays'. So, I'm asking you to specifically demonstrate that, and trying to see what you define as 'hatred'. I think our definitions differ greatly. I saw no 'hatred' in that video but apparently you do, yet you won't point out the specific hatred you are referring too.

 

[Immanuel]

When I have more time, I will study the FRC current website from cover to cover.

I will do it as an exercise in overcoming my hatred of them.

I will skip Scott Lively's Holocaust Revisionist book, The Pink Triangle, which explains how gay people caused the Holocaust.

Is that a view you share, Newby?

Why bother with the rhetorical question? You obviously already have come to the conclusion that I do, so whatever makes you happy Sky.

Why don't you comment on the videos that I'm referring too, and tell me what you find in them that would incite hate and violence in others towards gay people?

I wouldn't have asked the question if I already knew the answer. Thanks for not answering it. The question remains unanswered. I can live with that.

I think there isn't much point in me pointing out what bothers me about these folks. I have already done that many, many posts. No one seems to hear me. I have to deal with my own hatred of them. That's my work to do as it should be.

One of your problems as I see it is that you assume that because we disagree with you and your hatred that we automatically agree with Lively or the FRC. I know almost nothing at all about Lively... basically, all I know about him is what you have posted on this thread and I do not support the FRC. There are many things about the FRC that I do not like. That does not mean I think they promote killing gays or hatred of gays in any fashion.

Immie

 

[Newby]

Why bother with the rhetorical question? You obviously already have come to the conclusion that I do, so whatever makes you happy Sky.

Why don't you comment on the videos that I'm referring too, and tell me what you find in them that would incite hate and violence in others towards gay people?

I wouldn't have asked the question if I already knew the answer. Thanks for not answering it. The question remains unanswered. I can live with that.

I think there isn't much point in me pointing out what bothers me about these folks. I have already done that many, many posts. No one seems to hear me. I have to deal with my own hatred of them. That's my work to do as it should be.

One of your problems as I see it is that you assume that because we disagree with you and your hatred that we automatically agree with Lively or the FRC. I know almost nothing at all about Lively... basically, all I know about him is what you have posted on this thread and I do not support the FRC. There are many things about the FRC that I do not like. That does not mean I think they promote killing gays or hatred of gays in any fashion.

Immie

Exactly, Immie. It's black or white with her, you're either with her or against her, there is no in between. What I don't appreciate is that if you don't completely agree with her she accuses you of having the very worst thoughts that she can come up with and then maligns your character in the process.

 

[Immanuel]

I wouldn't have asked the question if I already knew the answer. Thanks for not answering it. The question remains unanswered. I can live with that.

I think there isn't much point in me pointing out what bothers me about these folks. I have already done that many, many posts. No one seems to hear me. I have to deal with my own hatred of them. That's my work to do as it should be.

One of your problems as I see it is that you assume that because we disagree with you and your hatred that we automatically agree with Lively or the FRC. I know almost nothing at all about Lively... basically, all I know about him is what you have posted on this thread and I do not support the FRC. There are many things about the FRC that I do not like. That does not mean I think they promote killing gays or hatred of gays in any fashion.

Immie

Exactly, Immie. It's black or white with her, you're either with her or against her, there is no in between. What I don't appreciate is that if you don't completely agree with her she accuses you of having the very worst thoughts that she can come up with and then maligns your character in the process.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Newby again

It truly seems that with her there is no in between. In that regard, she and President Bush have a lot in common.

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

Everything you say about me is true. I accept it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

One of your problems as I see it is that you assume that because we disagree with you and your hatred that we automatically agree with Lively or the FRC. I know almost nothing at all about Lively... basically, all I know about him is what you have posted on this thread and I do not support the FRC. There are many things about the FRC that I do not like. That does not mean I think they promote killing gays or hatred of gays in any fashion.

Immie

Exactly, Immie. It's black or white with her, you're either with her or against her, there is no in between. What I don't appreciate is that if you don't completely agree with her she accuses you of having the very worst thoughts that she can come up with and then maligns your character in the process.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Newby again

It truly seems that with her there is no in between. In that regard, she and President Bush have a lot in common.

Immie

Please keep talking about me than to me. I can use the insults to practice patience, a quality I really want to cultivate.

 

[Newby]

One of your problems as I see it is that you assume that because we disagree with you and your hatred that we automatically agree with Lively or the FRC. I know almost nothing at all about Lively... basically, all I know about him is what you have posted on this thread and I do not support the FRC. There are many things about the FRC that I do not like. That does not mean I think they promote killing gays or hatred of gays in any fashion.

Immie

Exactly, Immie. It's black or white with her, you're either with her or against her, there is no in between. What I don't appreciate is that if you don't completely agree with her she accuses you of having the very worst thoughts that she can come up with and then maligns your character in the process.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Newby again

It truly seems that with her there is no in between. In that regard, she and President Bush have a lot in common.
Immie