YOur kind of Christian; Family Research Council

[Sky Dancer]

QW--

I was asking a friend of mine what she remembered of the old days and the early gay pride parades, particularly why it was that some gay men thought including NAMBLA was acceptable.

She answered that some gay men had been sexually introduced by older teens or young men and that their experiences were NOT exploitive or damaging to them. I hadn't considered that from that perspective. I'm as uncomfortable with NAMBLA as I've ever been but it does explain why lesbians and gay men fought in the early days of the gay civil rights movement.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I am homophobic and prejudiced for pointing out you had to actually work to keep NAMBLA out of your parade?

Tell me something, do you consider this article to be homophibic because it points out the historical controversy that arose when the ILGA got consultant status with the UN even though it allowed NAMBLA, MARTIJN, and Project Truth to be part of its organization?

Be honest Sky, it makes you appear sane. It took years, and constant lobbying by many gay groups who opposed pedophilia, before NAMBLA was marginalized like it is now. Admitting to the mistakes of the past does not mean that you supported them, it just means you are aware of them.
North American Man/Boy Love Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From 1979 on, gay rights groups, (especially lesbians) have opposed NAMBLA. That's very nearly from the beginning.

I have NEVER supported NAMBLA. That is the truth. Don't you dare tell me I'm lying about something like that.

Yes, by emphasizing this point you are homophobic. You are propagating the myth that homosexuality and pedophilia are one and the same.

Why aren't you asking me why it was an issue for gays and lesbians from the very beginning?

Some people thought NAMBLA should be included in a gay pride parade because as an organization they agreed with the goals of gay civil rights. That has always been a stupid argument. I have no idea why they were ever included in any pride parade. I will see if I can find what the prevailing rationale was for their inclusion at the time.

I only marched in two pride parades in my whole life. Both were acts of courage. NAMBLA was not present.

NAMBLA once marched in Gay Pride parades. The Klu Klux clan once marched in parades, the Communist Party once marched in parades, admirers of Hitler and the Nazi party once marched in Parades.

Don't you dare tell me I ever supported them or they are a HUGE part of gay civil rights movement. That's a lie. Trying to tie all homosexuals to illegal child molestation is a well established propaganda technique whose premise is false and abhorrent. It's a lie propagated by FRC.

I would NEVER hurt a child for ANY reason. ANYONE gay or straight who molests a child should be thrown in jail and punished.

Where did I say you personally supported, or even tolerated, NAMBLA?

My point it that gay rights groups sometimes ignored what people were about as long as they gave lip service to supporting their beliefs. What I am doing is contrasting your insistence that, because the SPLC says something is a hate group, that does not make them a hate group. NAMBLA called itself a gay rights group, and, when their agenda was pointed out, some gay rights activists defended them. Some even went so far as to accuse anyone who objected to NAMBLA of being homophobic.

(Do you see a pattern here?)

This is history, and me pointing it out no more makes me homophobic than you pointing out that the KKK marched in parades makes you a racist. If I wanted to argue that a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia I would do so. I have no trouble stating my opinions, and never will.

If you want to know what really perpetuates the myth between pedophilia and homosexuality I can tell you what it is. It is the vehement denial of the history between gay rights activism and groups like NAMBLA. This is what gave Jesse Helms the moral high ground in 1993, allowing him to force Clinton to back down on his promise to allow homosexuals to serve openly in the military. If the ILGA had marginalized the pedophiles before that time you might not be sitting here arguing about gay marriage, you might already have nationwide acceptance of it.

Just something to think about.

The ILGA didn't even exist until 1993. It was in 1994 that NAMBLA was tossed out. I would call that a pretty quick response to marginalize pedophiles. It's true that some gay rights activists argued for inclusion of NAMBLA. Harry Hay is one of the more famous ones and Allen Ginsberg is another. They thought that as long as there was no coercion, man boy love was ok. Harry Hay was AGAINST gays assimilating into straight culture. I've always disagreed, as have most lesbians.

If you want to discuss history of the movement let's do so. Get your facts straight.

Stop blaming gay people for homophobia.

 

[Sky Dancer]

1924
The Society for Human Rights in Chicago becomes the country's earliest known gay rights organization.
1948
Alfred Kinsey publishes Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, revealing to the public that homosexuality is far more widespread than was commonly believed.
1951
The Mattachine Society, the first national gay rights organization, is formed by Harry Hay, considered by many to be the founder of the gay rights movement.
1956
The Daughters of Bilitis, a pioneering national lesbian organization, is founded.
1962
Illinois becomes the first state in the U.S. to decriminalize homosexual acts between consenting adults in private.
1969
The Stonewall riots transform the gay rights movement from one limited to a small number of activists into a widespread protest for equal rights and acceptance. Patrons of a gay bar in New York's Greenwich Village, the Stonewall Inn, fight back during a police raid on June 27, sparking three days of riots.
1973
The American Psychiatric Association removes homosexuality from its official list of mental disorders.
1982
Wisconsin becomes the first state to outlaw discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
1993
The “Don't Ask, Don't Tell” policy is instituted for the U.S. military, permitting gays to serve in the military but banning homosexual activity. President Clinton's original intention to revoke the prohibition against gays in the military was met with stiff opposition; this compromise, which has led to the discharge of thousands of men and women in the armed forces, was the result.
1996
In Romer v. Evans, the Supreme Court strikes down Colorado's Amendment 2, which denied gays and lesbians protections against discrimination, calling them “special rights.” According to Justice Anthony Kennedy, “We find nothing special in the protections Amendment 2 withholds. These protections . . . constitute ordinary civil life in a free society.”
2000
Vermont becomes the first state in the country to legally recognize civil unionsbetween gay or lesbian couples. The law states that these “couples would be entitled to the same benefits, privileges, and responsibilities as spouses.” It stops short of referring to same-sex unions as marriage, which the state defines as heterosexual.
2003
The U.S. Supreme Court rules in Lawrence v. Texas that sodomy laws in the U.S. are unconstitutional. Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote, “Liberty presumes an autonomy of self that includes freedom of thought, belief, expression, and certain intimate conduct.”

In November, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled that barring gays and lesbians from marrying violates the state constitution. The Massachusetts Chief Justice concluded that to “deny the protections, benefits, and obligations conferred by civil marriage” to gay couples was unconstitutional because it denied “the dignity and equality of all individuals” and made them “second-class citizens.” Strong opposition followed the ruling.
2004
On May 17, same-sex marriages become legal in Massachusetts.
2005
Civil unions become legal in Connecticut in October.
2006
Civil unions become legal in New Jersey in December.
2007
In November, the House of Representatives approves a bill ensuring equal rights in the workplace for gay men, lesbians, and bisexuals.
2008
In February, a New York State appeals court unanimously votes that valid same-sex marriages performed in other states must be recognized by employers in New York, granting same-sex couples the same rights as other couples.

In February, the state of Oregon passes a law that allows same-sex couples to register as domestic partners allowing them some spousal rights of married couples.

On May 15, the California Supreme Court rules that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry. By November 3rd, more than 18,000 same-sex couples have married. On November 4, California voters approved a ban on same-sex marriage called Proposition 8. The attorney general of California, Jerry Brown, asked the state's Supreme Court to review the constitutionality of Proposition 8. The ban throws into question the validity of the more than 18,000 marriages already performed, but Attorney General Brown reiterated in a news release that he believed the same-sex marriages performed in California before November 4 should remain valid, and the California Supreme Court, which upheld the ban in May 2009, agreed, allowing those couples married under the old law to remain that way.

November 4 voters in California, Arizona, and Florida approved the passage of measures that ban same-sex marriage. Arkansas passed a measure intended to bar gay men and lesbians from adopting children.

On October 10 the Supreme Court of Connecticut rules that same-sex couples have the right to marry. This makes Connecticut the second state, after Massachusetts, to legalize civil marriage for same-sex couples. The court rules that the state cannot deny gay and lesbian couples the freedom to marry under Connecticut's constitution, and that the state's civil union law does not provide same-sex couples with the same rights as heterosexual couples.

On November 12 same-sex marriages begin to be officially performed in Connecticut.
2009
On April 3, the Iowa Supreme Court unanimously rejects the state law banning same-sex marriage. Twenty-one days later, county recorders are required to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

On April 7, the Vermont Legislature votes to override Gov. Jim Douglas's veto of a bill allowing gays and lesbians to marry, legalizing same-sex marriage. It is the first state to legalize gay marriage through the legislature; the courts of the other states in which the marriage is legal—Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Iowa—gave approval.


On May 6, the governor of Maine legalized same-sex marriage in that state in Maine; however, citizens voted to overturn that law when they went to the polls in November, and Maine became the 31st state to ban the practice.


On June 3, New Hampshire governor John Lynch signs legislation allowing same-sex marriage. The law stipulates that religious organizations and their employees will not be required to participate in the ceremonies. New Hampshire is the sixth state in the nation to allow same-sex marriage.


On June 17, President Obama signs a referendum allowing the same-sex partners of federal employees to receive benefits. They will not be allowed full health coverage, however. This is Obama's first major initiative in his campaign promise to improve gay rights.


2010
March 3: Congress approves a law signed in December 2009 that legalizes same-sex marriage in the District of Columbia.

August 4: Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker ruled that Proposition 8, the 2008 referendum that banned same-sex marriage in California, violates the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause. "Proposition 8 singles out gays and lesbians and legitimates their unequal treatment," Vaughn wrote in his opinion. "Proposition 8 perpetuates the stereotype that gays and lesbians are incapable of forming long-term loving relationships and that gays and lesbians are not good parents."

December 18: the U.S. Senate voted 65 to 31 in favor of repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the Clinton-era military policy that forbids openly gay men and women from serving in the military. Eight Republicans sided with the Democrats to strike down the ban. The ban will not be lifted officially until President Obama, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, and Admiral Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, agree that the military is ready to enact the change and that it won't affect military readiness. On Dec. 18, President Obama officially repealed the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" military policy.



Read more: The American Gay Rights Movement: A Timeline — Infoplease.com The American Gay Rights Movement: A Timeline — Infoplease.com

 

[Sky Dancer]

More on the history of the civil rights movement for LGBT

Civil Rights - The History of Gay Rights

 

[R.D.]

QW--

I was asking a friend of mine what she remembered of the old days and the early gay pride parades, particularly why it was that some gay men thought including NAMBLA was acceptable.

She answered that some gay men had been sexually introduced by older teens or young men and that their experiences were NOT exploitive or damaging to them. I hadn't considered that from that perspective. I'm as uncomfortable with NAMBLA as I've ever been but it does explain why lesbians and gay men fought in the early days of the gay civil rights movement.

Isn't that indoctrination?

 

[AllieBaba]

From 1979 on, gay rights groups, (especially lesbians) have opposed NAMBLA. That's very nearly from the beginning.

I have NEVER supported NAMBLA. That is the truth. Don't you dare tell me I'm lying about something like that.

Yes, by emphasizing this point you are homophobic. You are propagating the myth that homosexuality and pedophilia are one and the same.

Why aren't you asking me why it was an issue for gays and lesbians from the very beginning?

Some people thought NAMBLA should be included in a gay pride parade because as an organization they agreed with the goals of gay civil rights. That has always been a stupid argument. I have no idea why they were ever included in any pride parade. I will see if I can find what the prevailing rationale was for their inclusion at the time.

I only marched in two pride parades in my whole life. Both were acts of courage. NAMBLA was not present.

NAMBLA once marched in Gay Pride parades. The Klu Klux clan once marched in parades, the Communist Party once marched in parades, admirers of Hitler and the Nazi party once marched in Parades.

Don't you dare tell me I ever supported them or they are a HUGE part of gay civil rights movement. That's a lie. Trying to tie all homosexuals to illegal child molestation is a well established propaganda technique whose premise is false and abhorrent. It's a lie propagated by FRC.

I would NEVER hurt a child for ANY reason. ANYONE gay or straight who molests a child should be thrown in jail and punished.

Where did I say you personally supported, or even tolerated, NAMBLA?

My point it that gay rights groups sometimes ignored what people were about as long as they gave lip service to supporting their beliefs. What I am doing is contrasting your insistence that, because the SPLC says something is a hate group, that does not make them a hate group. NAMBLA called itself a gay rights group, and, when their agenda was pointed out, some gay rights activists defended them. Some even went so far as to accuse anyone who objected to NAMBLA of being homophobic.

(Do you see a pattern here?)

This is history, and me pointing it out no more makes me homophobic than you pointing out that the KKK marched in parades makes you a racist. If I wanted to argue that a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia I would do so. I have no trouble stating my opinions, and never will.

If you want to know what really perpetuates the myth between pedophilia and homosexuality I can tell you what it is. It is the vehement denial of the history between gay rights activism and groups like NAMBLA. This is what gave Jesse Helms the moral high ground in 1993, allowing him to force Clinton to back down on his promise to allow homosexuals to serve openly in the military. If the ILGA had marginalized the pedophiles before that time you might not be sitting here arguing about gay marriage, you might already have nationwide acceptance of it.

Just something to think about.

The ILGA didn't even exist until 1993. It was in 1994 that NAMBLA was tossed out. I would call that a pretty quick response to marginalize pedophiles. It's true that some gay rights activists argued for inclusion of NAMBLA. Harry Hay is one of the more famous ones and Allen Ginsberg is another. They thought that as long as there was no coercion, man boy love was ok. Harry Hay was AGAINST gays assimilating into straight culture. I've always disagreed, as have most lesbians.

If you want to discuss history of the movement let's do so. Get your facts straight.

Stop blaming gay people for homophobia.

When homosexuals quit justifying pedophilia, maybe it will happen.

"Coercion" exists any time an underaged child is exploited sexually, as the understanding is that a child CANNOT GIVE CONSENT. Any sexual contact between a minor and an adult is COERCION regardless of what the kid says at the time or later. Victims of sex abuse are generally not crazy about being identified as victims, and often don't view themselves as victims, which is why it's so harmful to children. Their abusers convince them that because it feels good, it is good, and healthy, and right. It's a lie, but the kids buy into it, and it warps their lives forever.

So anytime you hear a kid saying "Yeah, I was only 12, or 14, or 17, but I enjoyed it so it's okay." he is a VICTIM of a pederast. And a victim of sexual abuse is a LOT more likely to develop into a homosexual, as well as developing into a sex offender...which is why the connection continues to be made.

So stop making excuses for child abuse, and quit justifying it based on the kid liking it and saying he wasn't coerced. That's fucking sick and twisted, and it sends up every red flag there is for anyone who has ever worked with sex offenders or their victims.

 

[Sky Dancer]

QW--

I was asking a friend of mine what she remembered of the old days and the early gay pride parades, particularly why it was that some gay men thought including NAMBLA was acceptable.

She answered that some gay men had been sexually introduced by older teens or young men and that their experiences were NOT exploitive or damaging to them. I hadn't considered that from that perspective. I'm as uncomfortable with NAMBLA as I've ever been but it does explain why lesbians and gay men fought in the early days of the gay civil rights movement.

Isn't that indoctrination?

Do you consider your first sexual experiences indoctrination into heterosexuality? If one teen has sex with another is that indoctrination? What about the men who take their sons to prostitutes?

Adults should not be having sex with children. Period.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Newby

I went to alot of trouble yesterday to research FRC's own publications and print them, and to put the actual words of the kill gays bill in this thread. A version of that bill may be voted on in Uganda on March 22, 2011.

I hope you'll do me the courtesy of reading them.

Thanks,

Sky

 

[Quantum Windbag]

QW--

I was asking a friend of mine what she remembered of the old days and the early gay pride parades, particularly why it was that some gay men thought including NAMBLA was acceptable.

She answered that some gay men had been sexually introduced by older teens or young men and that their experiences were NOT exploitive or damaging to them. I hadn't considered that from that perspective. I'm as uncomfortable with NAMBLA as I've ever been but it does explain why lesbians and gay men fought in the early days of the gay civil rights movement.

Believe it or not, I actually understand that. Another thing that made it possible for NAMBLA to move openly in gay rights organizations is that it was a different time, and the age of consent was not as solidly a part of the mainstream culture as it is now. Like I said, pointing out the history, and understanding the context, does not make me homophobic. I have had actual conversations with pedophiles, and I know they are neither homosexual or heterosexual.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

From 1979 on, gay rights groups, (especially lesbians) have opposed NAMBLA. That's very nearly from the beginning.

I have NEVER supported NAMBLA. That is the truth. Don't you dare tell me I'm lying about something like that.

Yes, by emphasizing this point you are homophobic. You are propagating the myth that homosexuality and pedophilia are one and the same.

Why aren't you asking me why it was an issue for gays and lesbians from the very beginning?

Some people thought NAMBLA should be included in a gay pride parade because as an organization they agreed with the goals of gay civil rights. That has always been a stupid argument. I have no idea why they were ever included in any pride parade. I will see if I can find what the prevailing rationale was for their inclusion at the time.

I only marched in two pride parades in my whole life. Both were acts of courage. NAMBLA was not present.

NAMBLA once marched in Gay Pride parades. The Klu Klux clan once marched in parades, the Communist Party once marched in parades, admirers of Hitler and the Nazi party once marched in Parades.

Don't you dare tell me I ever supported them or they are a HUGE part of gay civil rights movement. That's a lie. Trying to tie all homosexuals to illegal child molestation is a well established propaganda technique whose premise is false and abhorrent. It's a lie propagated by FRC.

I would NEVER hurt a child for ANY reason. ANYONE gay or straight who molests a child should be thrown in jail and punished.

Where did I say you personally supported, or even tolerated, NAMBLA?

My point it that gay rights groups sometimes ignored what people were about as long as they gave lip service to supporting their beliefs. What I am doing is contrasting your insistence that, because the SPLC says something is a hate group, that does not make them a hate group. NAMBLA called itself a gay rights group, and, when their agenda was pointed out, some gay rights activists defended them. Some even went so far as to accuse anyone who objected to NAMBLA of being homophobic.

(Do you see a pattern here?)

This is history, and me pointing it out no more makes me homophobic than you pointing out that the KKK marched in parades makes you a racist. If I wanted to argue that a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia I would do so. I have no trouble stating my opinions, and never will.

If you want to know what really perpetuates the myth between pedophilia and homosexuality I can tell you what it is. It is the vehement denial of the history between gay rights activism and groups like NAMBLA. This is what gave Jesse Helms the moral high ground in 1993, allowing him to force Clinton to back down on his promise to allow homosexuals to serve openly in the military. If the ILGA had marginalized the pedophiles before that time you might not be sitting here arguing about gay marriage, you might already have nationwide acceptance of it.

Just something to think about.

The ILGA didn't even exist until 1993. It was in 1994 that NAMBLA was tossed out. I would call that a pretty quick response to marginalize pedophiles. It's true that some gay rights activists argued for inclusion of NAMBLA. Harry Hay is one of the more famous ones and Allen Ginsberg is another. They thought that as long as there was no coercion, man boy love was ok. Harry Hay was AGAINST gays assimilating into straight culture. I've always disagreed, as have most lesbians.

If you want to discuss history of the movement let's do so. Get your facts straight.

Stop blaming gay people for homophobia.

There you go again.

The ILGA traces its history back to 1978.

International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1993 if gained consultant status with the UN as an NGO, and that status was revoked in 1994.

Maybe you should get your facts straight, I am pretty sure mine are in order.

 

[Newby]

STOP CALLING ME A LIAR. HERE'S PROOF:

Gays are pedophiles, and want to promote youth promiscuity. "There is a strong undercurrent of pedophilia in the homosexual subculture. Homosexual activists want to promote the flouting of traditional sexual prohibitions at the earliest possible age....they want to encourage a promiscuous society - and the best place to start is with a young and credulous captive audience in the public schools." - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/insight/is93f1hs.html
*
Gays hate God. "[Homosexuality] is the opposite of love for God. It is a rebellion against God and God's natural order, and embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion." - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays oppose Christianity. "Militant homosexuality is fundamentally opposed to religion, family, and anything that presupposes a natural moral order, a transcendent God, or something else higher than ourselves. The activist homosexual agenda and worldview are fundamentally incompatible with Christianity or any form of true religion, because homosexuality is ultimately narcissism" - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays are diseased, die early, and are less productive than heterosexuals. "homosexual behavior is extremely unhealthy, contributing to the spread of AIDS, hepatitis A, B and C and other sexually transmitted diseases….A study of more than 6,400 obituaries in homosexual publications reveals that homosexuals typically have far shorter life spans than the general population. Other reports indicate that homosexuals are more likely to have drug and alcohol abuse problems. It is unfair to force businesses to pay the extra insurance expense and lost productivity that inevitably results from homosexual behavior." [Editors note: the source for this "research" is the discredited Dr. Paul Cameron - see below for extensive information about his extreme beliefs] - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, testifying at ENDA Hearings, July 29, 1994 - committee on Labor and Human Resources, US Senate.
*
Gays only pretend to oppose pedophilia. "In the United States, homosexual activists are more circumspect about their efforts to gain access to children...homosexual activists publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles as part of a public relations strategy"- "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf

Gays are 33% of child molesters. "they constitute about a third of child molesters." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf
*
The examples go on and on and are clearly NOT statements of religious belief or dogma. The sole intent of the Family Research Council is to malign and denigrate a gays and lesbians, a whole segment of society, and to engender hatred.

None of these links work.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Where did I say you personally supported, or even tolerated, NAMBLA?

My point it that gay rights groups sometimes ignored what people were about as long as they gave lip service to supporting their beliefs. What I am doing is contrasting your insistence that, because the SPLC says something is a hate group, that does not make them a hate group. NAMBLA called itself a gay rights group, and, when their agenda was pointed out, some gay rights activists defended them. Some even went so far as to accuse anyone who objected to NAMBLA of being homophobic.

(Do you see a pattern here?)

This is history, and me pointing it out no more makes me homophobic than you pointing out that the KKK marched in parades makes you a racist. If I wanted to argue that a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia I would do so. I have no trouble stating my opinions, and never will.

If you want to know what really perpetuates the myth between pedophilia and homosexuality I can tell you what it is. It is the vehement denial of the history between gay rights activism and groups like NAMBLA. This is what gave Jesse Helms the moral high ground in 1993, allowing him to force Clinton to back down on his promise to allow homosexuals to serve openly in the military. If the ILGA had marginalized the pedophiles before that time you might not be sitting here arguing about gay marriage, you might already have nationwide acceptance of it.

Just something to think about.

The ILGA didn't even exist until 1993. It was in 1994 that NAMBLA was tossed out. I would call that a pretty quick response to marginalize pedophiles. It's true that some gay rights activists argued for inclusion of NAMBLA. Harry Hay is one of the more famous ones and Allen Ginsberg is another. They thought that as long as there was no coercion, man boy love was ok. Harry Hay was AGAINST gays assimilating into straight culture. I've always disagreed, as have most lesbians.

If you want to discuss history of the movement let's do so. Get your facts straight.

Stop blaming gay people for homophobia.

When homosexuals quit justifying pedophilia, maybe it will happen.

"Coercion" exists any time an underaged child is exploited sexually, as the understanding is that a child CANNOT GIVE CONSENT. Any sexual contact between a minor and an adult is COERCION regardless of what the kid says at the time or later. Victims of sex abuse are generally not crazy about being identified as victims, and often don't view themselves as victims, which is why it's so harmful to children. Their abusers convince them that because it feels good, it is good, and healthy, and right. It's a lie, but the kids buy into it, and it warps their lives forever.

So anytime you hear a kid saying "Yeah, I was only 12, or 14, or 17, but I enjoyed it so it's okay." he is a VICTIM of a pederast. And a victim of sexual abuse is a LOT more likely to develop into a homosexual, as well as developing into a sex offender...which is why the connection continues to be made.

So stop making excuses for child abuse, and quit justifying it based on the kid liking it and saying he wasn't coerced. That's fucking sick and twisted, and it sends up every red flag there is for anyone who has ever worked with sex offenders or their victims.

Most homosexuals do not justify pedophilia.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Where did I say you personally supported, or even tolerated, NAMBLA?

My point it that gay rights groups sometimes ignored what people were about as long as they gave lip service to supporting their beliefs. What I am doing is contrasting your insistence that, because the SPLC says something is a hate group, that does not make them a hate group. NAMBLA called itself a gay rights group, and, when their agenda was pointed out, some gay rights activists defended them. Some even went so far as to accuse anyone who objected to NAMBLA of being homophobic.

(Do you see a pattern here?)

This is history, and me pointing it out no more makes me homophobic than you pointing out that the KKK marched in parades makes you a racist. If I wanted to argue that a correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia I would do so. I have no trouble stating my opinions, and never will.

If you want to know what really perpetuates the myth between pedophilia and homosexuality I can tell you what it is. It is the vehement denial of the history between gay rights activism and groups like NAMBLA. This is what gave Jesse Helms the moral high ground in 1993, allowing him to force Clinton to back down on his promise to allow homosexuals to serve openly in the military. If the ILGA had marginalized the pedophiles before that time you might not be sitting here arguing about gay marriage, you might already have nationwide acceptance of it.

Just something to think about.

The ILGA didn't even exist until 1993. It was in 1994 that NAMBLA was tossed out. I would call that a pretty quick response to marginalize pedophiles. It's true that some gay rights activists argued for inclusion of NAMBLA. Harry Hay is one of the more famous ones and Allen Ginsberg is another. They thought that as long as there was no coercion, man boy love was ok. Harry Hay was AGAINST gays assimilating into straight culture. I've always disagreed, as have most lesbians.

If you want to discuss history of the movement let's do so. Get your facts straight.

Stop blaming gay people for homophobia.

There you go again.

The ILGA traces its history back to 1978.

International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1993 if gained consultant status with the UN as an NGO, and that status was revoked in 1994.

Maybe you should get your facts straight, I am pretty sure mine are in order.

OK. I stand corrected. I've never been a member of any gay or lesbian group in my life.

Your point is that ALL of us gays and lesbians welcomed NAMBLA with open arms. We didn't. NAMBLA was always controversial and most of us never wanted any association with that group. Your view of gays and lesbians is very cynical. You think we ignored what this group was about because they gave 'lip service' to supporting gay rights. We didn't. It was hotly debated between gay men and lesbians. Lesbians NEVER wanted anything to do with NAMBLA but we had far less power than the men. Some men argued that if we objected to NAMBLA it was a form of 'internalized oppression'. That was always a crap argument.

I asked a friend this morning why any gay men would have welcomed this group and she said because some of them experienced their coming out with older boys and men as a positive experience.

That surprises me, and I have a hard time believing it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

STOP CALLING ME A LIAR. HERE'S PROOF:

Gays are pedophiles, and want to promote youth promiscuity. "There is a strong undercurrent of pedophilia in the homosexual subculture. Homosexual activists want to promote the flouting of traditional sexual prohibitions at the earliest possible age....they want to encourage a promiscuous society - and the best place to start is with a young and credulous captive audience in the public schools." - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/insight/is93f1hs.html
*
Gays hate God. "[Homosexuality] is the opposite of love for God. It is a rebellion against God and God's natural order, and embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion." - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays oppose Christianity. "Militant homosexuality is fundamentally opposed to religion, family, and anything that presupposes a natural moral order, a transcendent God, or something else higher than ourselves. The activist homosexual agenda and worldview are fundamentally incompatible with Christianity or any form of true religion, because homosexuality is ultimately narcissism" - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays are diseased, die early, and are less productive than heterosexuals. "homosexual behavior is extremely unhealthy, contributing to the spread of AIDS, hepatitis A, B and C and other sexually transmitted diseases….A study of more than 6,400 obituaries in homosexual publications reveals that homosexuals typically have far shorter life spans than the general population. Other reports indicate that homosexuals are more likely to have drug and alcohol abuse problems. It is unfair to force businesses to pay the extra insurance expense and lost productivity that inevitably results from homosexual behavior." [Editors note: the source for this "research" is the discredited Dr. Paul Cameron - see below for extensive information about his extreme beliefs] - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, testifying at ENDA Hearings, July 29, 1994 - committee on Labor and Human Resources, US Senate.
*
Gays only pretend to oppose pedophilia. "In the United States, homosexual activists are more circumspect about their efforts to gain access to children...homosexual activists publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles as part of a public relations strategy"- "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf

Gays are 33% of child molesters. "they constitute about a third of child molesters." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf
*
The examples go on and on and are clearly NOT statements of religious belief or dogma. The sole intent of the Family Research Council is to malign and denigrate a gays and lesbians, a whole segment of society, and to engender hatred.

None of these links work.

They link to FRC, but FRC has removed some of these documents. "We're sorry, the page you're looking for is no longer available". I'm sure that will make you think I'm a liar. You couldn't possibly believe these folks are that slick.

"The radical homosexual agenda is the frontline of a Totalitarian regime which is hell-bent on coercing traditional businesses and churches into doing things that go against their morality,” says Tony Perkins speaking at Coral Ridge Ministeries.

I give up.

Believe that Scott Lively didn't write the book, The Pink Swastika, Holocaust revisionism, or go to Uganda to stir up hate.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Anti-gay propaganda splits Uganda priests and churches - Afrik-news.com : Africa news, Maghreb news - The african daily newspaper

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The ILGA didn't even exist until 1993. It was in 1994 that NAMBLA was tossed out. I would call that a pretty quick response to marginalize pedophiles. It's true that some gay rights activists argued for inclusion of NAMBLA. Harry Hay is one of the more famous ones and Allen Ginsberg is another. They thought that as long as there was no coercion, man boy love was ok. Harry Hay was AGAINST gays assimilating into straight culture. I've always disagreed, as have most lesbians.

If you want to discuss history of the movement let's do so. Get your facts straight.

Stop blaming gay people for homophobia.

There you go again.

The ILGA traces its history back to 1978.

International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1993 if gained consultant status with the UN as an NGO, and that status was revoked in 1994.

Maybe you should get your facts straight, I am pretty sure mine are in order.

OK. I stand corrected. I've never been a member of any gay or lesbian group in my life.

Your point is that ALL of us gays and lesbians welcomed NAMBLA with open arms. We didn't. NAMBLA was always controversial and most of us never wanted any association with that group. Your view of gays and lesbians is very cynical. You think we ignored what this group was about because they gave 'lip service' to supporting gay rights. We didn't. It was hotly debated between gay men and lesbians. Lesbians NEVER wanted anything to do with NAMBLA but we had far less power than the men. Some men argued that if we objected to NAMBLA it was a form of 'internalized oppression'. That was always a crap argument.

I asked a friend this morning why any gay men would have welcomed this group and she said because some of them experienced their coming out with older boys and men as a positive experience.

That surprises me, and I have a hard time believing it.

There you go putting words into people's mouths again. I already posted about how some groups excluded them. When the ILGA had the vote about kicking them out the vote was 214-30, so I am hardly saying most homosexuals support NAMBLA However, some do, and they to be the most vocal in their activism, and are often vehement in their support of them. Couple that with the fact that some people, like you, are equally as vehement in denying that any connection ever existed, and you gove the conspiracy nuts a lot of ammunition.

Stop reacting with your emotions, accept the truth, and refuse to give people that are trying to tie homosexuality and pedophilia together more ammunition.

 

[Gadawg73]

There you go again.

The ILGA traces its history back to 1978.

International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1993 if gained consultant status with the UN as an NGO, and that status was revoked in 1994.

Maybe you should get your facts straight, I am pretty sure mine are in order.

OK. I stand corrected. I've never been a member of any gay or lesbian group in my life.

Your point is that ALL of us gays and lesbians welcomed NAMBLA with open arms. We didn't. NAMBLA was always controversial and most of us never wanted any association with that group. Your view of gays and lesbians is very cynical. You think we ignored what this group was about because they gave 'lip service' to supporting gay rights. We didn't. It was hotly debated between gay men and lesbians. Lesbians NEVER wanted anything to do with NAMBLA but we had far less power than the men. Some men argued that if we objected to NAMBLA it was a form of 'internalized oppression'. That was always a crap argument.

I asked a friend this morning why any gay men would have welcomed this group and she said because some of them experienced their coming out with older boys and men as a positive experience.

That surprises me, and I have a hard time believing it.

There you go putting words into people's mouths again. I already posted about how some groups excluded them. When the ILGA had the vote about kicking them out the vote was 214-30, so I am hardly saying most homosexuals support NAMBLA However, some do, and they to be the most vocal in their activism, and are often vehement in their support of them. Couple that with the fact that some people, like you, are equally as vehement in denying that any connection ever existed, and you gove the conspiracy nuts a lot of ammunition.

Stop reacting with your emotions, accept the truth, and refuse to give people that are trying to tie homosexuality and pedophilia together more ammunition.

Mistakes are made. Some straight folks support bad stuff.
That is life for all of us.

 

[Sky Dancer]

There you go again.

The ILGA traces its history back to 1978.

International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1993 if gained consultant status with the UN as an NGO, and that status was revoked in 1994.

Maybe you should get your facts straight, I am pretty sure mine are in order.

OK. I stand corrected. I've never been a member of any gay or lesbian group in my life.

Your point is that ALL of us gays and lesbians welcomed NAMBLA with open arms. We didn't. NAMBLA was always controversial and most of us never wanted any association with that group. Your view of gays and lesbians is very cynical. You think we ignored what this group was about because they gave 'lip service' to supporting gay rights. We didn't. It was hotly debated between gay men and lesbians. Lesbians NEVER wanted anything to do with NAMBLA but we had far less power than the men. Some men argued that if we objected to NAMBLA it was a form of 'internalized oppression'. That was always a crap argument.

I asked a friend this morning why any gay men would have welcomed this group and she said because some of them experienced their coming out with older boys and men as a positive experience.

That surprises me, and I have a hard time believing it.

There you go putting words into people's mouths again. I already posted about how some groups excluded them. When the ILGA had the vote about kicking them out the vote was 214-30, so I am hardly saying most homosexuals support NAMBLA However, some do, and they to be the most vocal in their activism, and are often vehement in their support of them. Couple that with the fact that some people, like you, are equally as vehement in denying that any connection ever existed, and you gove the conspiracy nuts a lot of ammunition.

Stop reacting with your emotions, accept the truth, and refuse to give people that are trying to tie homosexuality and pedophilia together more ammunition.

Why are you emphasizing that some gays were ok with NAMBLA in the beginning, instead of the truth, that NAMBLA's involvement was hotly contested?

Show proof that lesbians every approved of NAMBLA. Where is the link to that vote? I never got to vote.

People like me? Honest, decent, moral, faithful, hard working, tax paying citizens. I'm not denying there is no connection. I'm saying it's bullshit that gay people support pedophilia.

We want to be able to marry and have children and be treated with equal kind regard as any other citizen.

 

[Immanuel]

STOP CALLING ME A LIAR. HERE'S PROOF:

Gays are pedophiles, and want to promote youth promiscuity. "There is a strong undercurrent of pedophilia in the homosexual subculture. Homosexual activists want to promote the flouting of traditional sexual prohibitions at the earliest possible age....they want to encourage a promiscuous society - and the best place to start is with a young and credulous captive audience in the public schools." - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/insight/is93f1hs.html
*
Gays hate God. "[Homosexuality] is the opposite of love for God. It is a rebellion against God and God's natural order, and embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion." - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays oppose Christianity. "Militant homosexuality is fundamentally opposed to religion, family, and anything that presupposes a natural moral order, a transcendent God, or something else higher than ourselves. The activist homosexual agenda and worldview are fundamentally incompatible with Christianity or any form of true religion, because homosexuality is ultimately narcissism" - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays are diseased, die early, and are less productive than heterosexuals. "homosexual behavior is extremely unhealthy, contributing to the spread of AIDS, hepatitis A, B and C and other sexually transmitted diseases….A study of more than 6,400 obituaries in homosexual publications reveals that homosexuals typically have far shorter life spans than the general population. Other reports indicate that homosexuals are more likely to have drug and alcohol abuse problems. It is unfair to force businesses to pay the extra insurance expense and lost productivity that inevitably results from homosexual behavior." [Editors note: the source for this "research" is the discredited Dr. Paul Cameron - see below for extensive information about his extreme beliefs] - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, testifying at ENDA Hearings, July 29, 1994 - committee on Labor and Human Resources, US Senate.
*
Gays only pretend to oppose pedophilia. "In the United States, homosexual activists are more circumspect about their efforts to gain access to children...homosexual activists publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles as part of a public relations strategy"- "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf

Gays are 33% of child molesters. "they constitute about a third of child molesters." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf
*
The examples go on and on and are clearly NOT statements of religious belief or dogma. The sole intent of the Family Research Council is to malign and denigrate a gays and lesbians, a whole segment of society, and to engender hatred.

None of these links work.

They don't. Is that all that surprising?

She probably took the words off of the SPLC website without actually researching FRC.

Immie

 

[Sky Dancer]

STOP CALLING ME A LIAR. HERE'S PROOF:

Gays are pedophiles, and want to promote youth promiscuity. "There is a strong undercurrent of pedophilia in the homosexual subculture. Homosexual activists want to promote the flouting of traditional sexual prohibitions at the earliest possible age....they want to encourage a promiscuous society - and the best place to start is with a young and credulous captive audience in the public schools." - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/insight/is93f1hs.html
*
Gays hate God. "[Homosexuality] is the opposite of love for God. It is a rebellion against God and God's natural order, and embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion." - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays oppose Christianity. "Militant homosexuality is fundamentally opposed to religion, family, and anything that presupposes a natural moral order, a transcendent God, or something else higher than ourselves. The activist homosexual agenda and worldview are fundamentally incompatible with Christianity or any form of true religion, because homosexuality is ultimately narcissism" - THE ASSAULT ON CHRISTIANS BY THE MILITANT HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT, by Steven A. Schwalm, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98j2hs.html
*
Gays are diseased, die early, and are less productive than heterosexuals. "homosexual behavior is extremely unhealthy, contributing to the spread of AIDS, hepatitis A, B and C and other sexually transmitted diseases….A study of more than 6,400 obituaries in homosexual publications reveals that homosexuals typically have far shorter life spans than the general population. Other reports indicate that homosexuals are more likely to have drug and alcohol abuse problems. It is unfair to force businesses to pay the extra insurance expense and lost productivity that inevitably results from homosexual behavior." [Editors note: the source for this "research" is the discredited Dr. Paul Cameron - see below for extensive information about his extreme beliefs] - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, testifying at ENDA Hearings, July 29, 1994 - committee on Labor and Human Resources, US Senate.
*
Gays only pretend to oppose pedophilia. "In the United States, homosexual activists are more circumspect about their efforts to gain access to children...homosexual activists publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles as part of a public relations strategy"- "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf

Gays are 33% of child molesters. "they constitute about a third of child molesters." - "Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys," FRC publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf
*
The examples go on and on and are clearly NOT statements of religious belief or dogma. The sole intent of the Family Research Council is to malign and denigrate a gays and lesbians, a whole segment of society, and to engender hatred.

None of these links work.

They don't. Is that all that surprising?

She probably took the words off of the SPLC website without actually researching FRC.

Immie

Actually, there are about 20 websites quoting the same FRC pamphlets. FRC has removed them.

But since I'm a big liar and dishonest and a hater etc etc etc. Believe them instead of me.

I have been following FRC for years and they have said everyone of these statements many times.