Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

[dblack]

He would only get this achieved if he got liberals to go along. So next year, we will push for these 4 things and hopefully you Ron Paulers will go along.

LOL... so the answer is "yes!". Tell you what, I'll make a real sweet bet he doesn't go near any of these things. Whatdya say?

I actually had some (very slim, but it was there) hope that Obama might change things when he was elected. But as soon as he announced his cabinet choices it became painfully obvious his administration would be nothing but business as usual. He's a corporatist through-and-through and will do nothing to upset the status quo.

How come you can't convince Republicans the same thing is true about Romney or Santorum? That they want to protect the status quo.

That's the question, idn't it? Probably something similar to the reasons you'd give for supporting Obama. Some combination of gullibility and lesser-of-two-evils thinking. Or maybe they just like the status quo. What's your excuse?

Do you argue with Republicans on USMB who support Romney/Santorum?

How is that going? What do they say? How come Ron Paul isn't beating them? Do you guys call Romney/Santorum supporters stupid too? Do you argue with them like you do with us? Because it seems like first you need to win them over to get him the nomination.

Yep.

 

[bripat9643]

Absolutely. In business, there are barriers to entry which make it difficult for a new business to start up and compete with those who are already in business.

Most of those barriers are regulatory burdens imposed by the government.

The greedy Koch Brothers et al. have done quite well over the last couple of centuries in this country setting up barriers to entry to life itself.

Such as?

Keep the poor uneducated and you will keep them in control. Keep them sick and dependent on the occasional scraps that get thrown their way and you will keep them in control. It's a really sick system.

Government keeps the poor uneducated. The Koch brothers provide tens of thousands of jobs. They are making people wealthy, not poor. Of course, that's only if you want to work instead of laying around whining

 

[sfcalifornia]

Absolutely. In business, there are barriers to entry which make it difficult for a new business to start up and compete with those who are already in business.

Most of those barriers are regulatory burdens imposed by the government.

The greedy Koch Brothers et al. have done quite well over the last couple of centuries in this country setting up barriers to entry to life itself.

Such as?

Keep the poor uneducated and you will keep them in control. Keep them sick and dependent on the occasional scraps that get thrown their way and you will keep them in control. It's a really sick system.

Government keeps the poor uneducated. The Koch brothers provide tens of thousands of jobs. They are making people wealthy, not poor. Of course, that's only if you want to work instead of laying around whining

Industries with high barriers of entry:

Car making: high upfront capital investment in manufacturing equipment; compliance with safety and emission rules and regulation, access to parts suppliers, development of a network of car dealerships, big marketing campaign to establish a new car brand with consumers.
Mining: access to inputs restricted through natural distribution and government licenses, very specific/proprietary exploration knowledge, big investment in machinery.

Industries with low barriers of entry:

Computer Hardware retailing: everybody can start a home-based mail order business for computer parts. It takes little government permits, wholesaler are open for every reseller, there is no need to keep large stock, information is freely available on the internet.
Photography Services: little initial capital investment, no regulation, no economies of scale (the limiting factors are the photographer's time and his geographical location).
Barriers to Entry
---------------------------------------------------------------------

So, no, most barriers to entry are not government related. Just some.

Government keeps the poor uneducated. Really. Have you completely forgotten who controls the government? It ain't poor people......

 

[Peach]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.


I disagree.

As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?

Most Libertarians I know keep a close eye on government boundaries. Thus, perform a valuable function.

 

[editec]

Libertarian, socialist, conservative, liberal, De,ocrat, Republican....all labels designed to make fools stop thinking and start hating.

Tell us what you are for, not who you hate.

NONE of us are labels.

 

[Peach]

Libertarian, socialist, conservative, liberal, De,ocrat, Republican....all labels designed to make fools stop thinking and start hating.

Tell us what you are for, not who you hate.

NONE of us are labels.

Ron Paul voted against the Iraq invasion; one significant factor in favor of Libertarian leaning Republicans. THAT took guts.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Yes, because people like me understand the necessity of paying taxes. We all pay taxes. I pay over 35% and Romney pays 12%?

Not in federal tax, you don't. You may pay 35% in state, local, and federal combined and I assure you when you combine all of those taxes for Romney he is paying more than 12%.

Please explain to me why I'm greedy because I want Exxon and Romney to pay their fair share.

"Fair share" is nothing more than class warfare rhetoric. There are a lot of people in this country not paying their "fair share" and the vast majority of them are nothing close to being millionaires.

Stop drinking the coolaid enough to understand taxes are not evil.

It's Kool-Aid and please quote me where I said all taxes are evil.

Yea I know, Dems do it too.

Exactly. Kind of hypocritical of you to be knocking one party for it while continuing to support your own doing the same thing.

So instead of fighting us liberals, Ron Paul people need to continue discussing with us liberals the things that we agree on. Maybe when we have the majority next year we could use his vote and caucus to audit the Federal Reserve or close military bases around the world.

You may retain the White House next year, but the odds of you having either house of Congress are not in your favor.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Wouldn't Ron Paul supporters be happy if Obama won and in 3 years we:

a. Closed a lot of military bases around the world and saved trillions.

b. Legalized Pot and Prostitution.

c. Audited the Federal Reserve and solved our debt problem.

d. Got back to a projected surplus like when Clinton left office.

Sure I'd be happy, but if you think Obama will do a single one of those things then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Obama has more in common with George Bush than Ron Paul.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes, because people like me understand the necessity of paying taxes. We all pay taxes. I pay over 35% and Romney pays 12%?

Not in federal tax, you don't. You may pay 35% in state, local, and federal combined and I assure you when you combine all of those taxes for Romney he is paying more than 12%.

Please explain to me why I'm greedy because I want Exxon and Romney to pay their fair share.

"Fair share" is nothing more than class warfare rhetoric. There are a lot of people in this country not paying their "fair share" and the vast majority of them are nothing close to being millionaires.



It's Kool-Aid and please quote me where I said all taxes are evil.

Yea I know, Dems do it too.

Exactly. Kind of hypocritical of you to be knocking one party for it while continuing to support your own doing the same thing.

So instead of fighting us liberals, Ron Paul people need to continue discussing with us liberals the things that we agree on. Maybe when we have the majority next year we could use his vote and caucus to audit the Federal Reserve or close military bases around the world.

You may retain the White House next year, but the odds of you having either house of Congress are not in your favor.

Either you are rich or an ignorant dummy.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Yes, because people like me understand the necessity of paying taxes. We all pay taxes. I pay over 35% and Romney pays 12%?

Not in federal tax, you don't. You may pay 35% in state, local, and federal combined and I assure you when you combine all of those taxes for Romney he is paying more than 12%.



"Fair share" is nothing more than class warfare rhetoric. There are a lot of people in this country not paying their "fair share" and the vast majority of them are nothing close to being millionaires.



It's Kool-Aid and please quote me where I said all taxes are evil.



Exactly. Kind of hypocritical of you to be knocking one party for it while continuing to support your own doing the same thing.

So instead of fighting us liberals, Ron Paul people need to continue discussing with us liberals the things that we agree on. Maybe when we have the majority next year we could use his vote and caucus to audit the Federal Reserve or close military bases around the world.

You may retain the White House next year, but the odds of you having either house of Congress are not in your favor.

Either you are rich or an ignorant dummy.

It's always the ignoramuses among us telling everyone else how ignorant they are.

 

[sealybobo]

And actually, us middle class people pay WAY MORE in taxes than Romney does. I don't care if its federal or state, we're getting hosed, not Romney. Here is how.

When I go buy something with my meager earnings, I pay 6 cents on the dollar every time I buy something. Do you understand how much that adds up to at the end of the year? Lets say I have $20,000 disposable income every year to spend. 6 cents sales tax is a big deal to me. I don't care if its federal or state, us middle class people are getting hosed, not Romney. We pay over 30 and he pays 12%. Check the facts my friend. HE PAYS 12%. No pretending those facts didn't come out. No debating them. We don't count the money he's hiding in Switzerland and the Caymans.

But what is 6 cents to Romney? Nothing! But that 6 cents could go a long way to a single catholic woman who sinned and got knocked up out of wedlock and because of her religion she had the child and only makes $20K a year because she can't afford college. That 6 cents on every dollar hurts her, not Romney. But that doesn't bother Romney.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

And actually, us middle class people pay WAY MORE in taxes than Romney does. I don't care if its federal or state, we're getting hosed, not Romney.

No, you don't. You don't even make in one year what Romney pays in taxes, so just shut up already and stop making an ass out of yourself, unless, of course, you just can't help it.

When I go buy something with my meager earnings, I pay 6 cents on the dollar every time I buy something. Do you understand how much that adds up to at the end of the year? Lets say I have $20,000 disposable income every year to spend. 6 cents sales tax is a big deal to me. I don't care if its federal or state, us middle class people are getting hosed, not Romney. We pay over 30 and he pays 12%. Check the facts my friend. HE PAYS 12%. No pretending those facts didn't come out. No debating them. We don't count the money he's hiding in Switzerland and the Caymans.

Yeah, you keep claiming all these "facts" and yet you haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support them.

But what is 6 cents to Romney? Nothing! But that 6 cents could go a long way to a single catholic woman who sinned and got knocked up out of wedlock and because of her religion she had the child and only makes $20K a year because she can't afford college.

So in other words, the choices she made in life put her in her current predicament and somehow I and everyone else are supposed to pay her for fucking up? Also, I suggest you look up the term "false generalization."

 

[sealybobo]

And actually, us middle class people pay WAY MORE in taxes than Romney does. I don't care if its federal or state, we're getting hosed, not Romney.

No, you don't. You don't even make in one year what Romney pays in taxes, so just shut up already and stop making an ass out of yourself, unless, of course, you just can't help it.

When I go buy something with my meager earnings, I pay 6 cents on the dollar every time I buy something. Do you understand how much that adds up to at the end of the year? Lets say I have $20,000 disposable income every year to spend. 6 cents sales tax is a big deal to me. I don't care if its federal or state, us middle class people are getting hosed, not Romney. We pay over 30 and he pays 12%. Check the facts my friend. HE PAYS 12%. No pretending those facts didn't come out. No debating them. We don't count the money he's hiding in Switzerland and the Caymans.

Yeah, you keep claiming all these "facts" and yet you haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support them.

But what is 6 cents to Romney? Nothing! But that 6 cents could go a long way to a single catholic woman who sinned and got knocked up out of wedlock and because of her religion she had the child and only makes $20K a year because she can't afford college.

So in other words, the choices she made in life put her in her current predicament and somehow I and everyone else are supposed to pay her for fucking up? Also, I suggest you look up the term "false generalization."

All you prove is that the GOP is producing a society of greedy assholes.

And I don't need to provide the proof that Romney paid 12% in taxes last year. He provided his returns and thats how we know. Were you one of those Birthers who didn't believe Obama was born in America even after he showed you he was?

 

[sealybobo]

Not in federal tax, you don't. You may pay 35% in state, local, and federal combined and I assure you when you combine all of those taxes for Romney he is paying more than 12%.



"Fair share" is nothing more than class warfare rhetoric. There are a lot of people in this country not paying their "fair share" and the vast majority of them are nothing close to being millionaires.



It's Kool-Aid and please quote me where I said all taxes are evil.



Exactly. Kind of hypocritical of you to be knocking one party for it while continuing to support your own doing the same thing.



You may retain the White House next year, but the odds of you having either house of Congress are not in your favor.

Either you are rich or an ignorant dummy.

It's always the ignoramuses among us telling everyone else how ignorant they are.

Ditto buddy! I just love it that you righties are all finally being so honest about how big of assholes you are. Guys like Rush. November is going to be a cake walk. Keep offending GOP!!!

 

[sealybobo]

Wouldn't Ron Paul supporters be happy if Obama won and in 3 years we:

a. Closed a lot of military bases around the world and saved trillions.

b. Legalized Pot and Prostitution.

c. Audited the Federal Reserve and solved our debt problem.

d. Got back to a projected surplus like when Clinton left office.

Sure I'd be happy, but if you think Obama will do a single one of those things then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Obama has more in common with George Bush than Ron Paul.

And if you think Ron Paul's way isn't just another way for the rich to take over our country. How is it that you guys understand the bankers are corrupt but you defend all the other robber barons like the Koch Brothers and the Insurance giants?

This is why I don't buy into Ron Paul. He and his croneys talk a good game about the bankers and the federal reserve, but they don't, for example, admit that Wallstreet Oil speculators are gouging us at the pumps. Ron Paul doesn't seem to have an answer to this other than let the markets decide.

 

[dblack]

This is why I don't buy into Ron Paul. He and his croneys talk a good game about the bankers and the federal reserve, but they don't, for example, admit that Wallstreet Oil speculators are gouging us at the pumps. Ron Paul doesn't seem to have an answer to this other than let the markets decide.

You really are very uninformed about Ron Paul, and libertarian views in general. Corporate welfare is one of the prime targets.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

I disagree.

Interestingly, and ironically, it was the closing of the commons that gave rise to the influx of population from the farms to the cities, resulting in the very ‘urban environment’ libertarians and rightists have come to despise today.

Otherwise those are good reasons why one might not be able to be a republican or libertarian.

I could belong to neither due to the ignorance and contempt for the Constitution and rule of law both exhibit.

The republican and libertarian call to ‘let the states decide’ with regard to privacy rights concerning abortion and equal access to marriage law the most glaring examples.

 

[WillowTree]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

I disagree.

I didn't read past the title. I sure as hell don't know why and don't care. I am however grateful as hell.

 

[kaz]

Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group

So you belong to the party that wants to control other people and the economy to force everyone with government guns to do what they think everyone should do, which makes you not selfish. As for libertarians, people wanting to make their own decisions over their own life, wallets and bodies, that's selfish, you'll have no part of it. Gotcha, thanks for that input. I'll reject it as the crap that it is.

 

[Avorysuds]

America was created to get away from people just like the OP.

/thread.