Why I Could Never Be GOP or Libertarian

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sealybobo, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Beavis

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    Listening to everything the GOP and Libertarians have to say, I have to say I viamently disagree with the direction they want to take America. They are a very selfish group.

    Paul Ryan, the father of a Republican budget initiative that seeks to destroy Medicare and Social Security has continually invoked the name of Ayn Rand as his philosophical mentor and guide. Many other Republicans have do so too. They are embracing a philosophy which, according to Ayn Rand herself, is one of selfishness and is against all forms of Spirituality. The question any thoughtful Americans must ask themselves is: “Is this the America we want?”

    And how do they get evangelicals to go along with them is beyond me.

    Its a very selfish every man for himself mentality.

    And Libertarians don't believe in the Commons. What are the Commons?

    The Commons are resources that are owned by all of us. That includes the Grand Canyon, oil rights, power companies, roads, public airwaves, schools, etc.

    Here is how they think. Libertarians think if we all own the land on which our sheep graze, we will each add one too many sheep until we destroy the land for future generations. That We the People can't manage the commons.

    Libertarians think that if one person owns the land and charged everyone else grazing fees, he would be more committed to preserving it for the future than a village of farmers.

    I disagree.
     
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  2. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Beavis

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    I want to hear from middle class and poor Ron Paul supporters. I want to hear how they think they will benefit from an every man for himself society. From what I can tell his approach would produce a small upper class and the middle class will become the working poor.

    People don't realize it was liberal labor laws, FDR New Deal, tariffs and unions that produced the huge middle class we enjoyed for the last 50 years. It wasn't unregulated free trade. Unregulated Free trade sent 7 million good paying jobs out of the country because we make too much. And Ron Paul wants to double down on the idea? He and Paul Ryan are no different. Bad for America. Not the top 1% but the rest of us, BAD.
     
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  3. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Beavis

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  4. dblack
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    dblack Gold Member

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    As a libertarian, I can only respond by pointing out that you have a lot of misconceptions about libertarians. There's a distinct difference between rejecting coercive government and rejecting community action. In my experience, libertarians believe in community spirit, charity, and helping their fellow man more sincerely that most modern liberals. They simply don't believe it needs to be forced on us via coercive government programs.

    Frankly, I find the liberal point of view deeply cynical, based on the tacit assumption that without government forcing it on us, we will turn our backs on those in need. I've heard it said that pretty much everyone starts with the base assumption that everyone else is like them. So people who are kind, charitable and forgiving assume the world will be likewise. Those who are less so, fear a world where people are free to be who they are. I couldn't take that as a blanket condemnation, because I know liberals who I believe are genuinely good people, but it does give me pause. What are you all so worried about?
     
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  5. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    Libertarians also think that all of us "owning" something is completely impossible in practice, and in reality it always turns out that the government owns whatever it is.
     
  6. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Beavis

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    We knew back in 2004 what the GOP were up to:

    Scrooge & Marley, Inc. -- The True Conservative Agenda 06/18/04

    The Robber Barons' Party 01/20/05

    "Nobles Need Not Pay Taxes" 02/01/05

    We saw the gap between the rich and poor were getting too wide:

    How Rich is Too Rich For Democracy? 04/18/05

    And us liberals know what the GOP are up to:

    "You Can't Govern if You Don't Believe in Government" 09/26/05

    People who want the truth and some interesting op ed's google Thom Hartmann Op Ed's and enjoy.
     
  7. dblack
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    dblack Gold Member

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    ???
     
  8. Grampa Murked U
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    Grampa Murked U Gold Member

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    Why I couldn't care less......see post #1.
     
  9. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Beavis

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    Fact is, since the GOP made all their cuts to government programs that help the poor and since they implimented their unregulated free trade, more people have slipped into poverty. And charities and religion are proving they are not capable of handling or solving the growing problem. This is what our government is for.

    This was written in 2007. This is why I laugh when Republicans try to suggest that Obama is at fault for the mess we are in.

    Roll Back the Reagan Tax Cuts | Common Dreams

    Since Bush has been president:

    •over 5 million people have slipped into poverty;
    •nearly 7 million Americans have lost their health insurance;
    •median household income has gone down by nearly $1,300;
    •three million manufacturing jobs have been lost;
    •three million American workers have lost their pensions;
    •home foreclosures are now the highest on record;
    •the personal savings rate is below zero - which hasn't happened since the great depression;
    •the real earnings of college graduates have gone down by about 5% in the last few years;
    •entry level wages for male and female high school graduates have fallen by over 3%;
    •wages and salaries are now at the lowest share of GDP since 1929.
     
  10. occupied
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    occupied Gold Member

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    Most RW libertarians I talk to on the internet have so many conflicting opinions it makes my head hurt. One minute they are all about personal freedom and responsibility for themselves and the next they seem to have fascist opinions on dealing with social problems such as poverty, immigration and crime. I just cannot compartmentalize my opinions like that, for them all men are not created equal and American exceptionalism forgives all sins.
     

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