Why do the God-haters persist?

[Derideo_Te]

Not if omnipotence created logic.

Non sequitur!

Big term for such a small mind.

Not my problem if your nano brain can't handle 4 syllables!

 

[GibsonSG]

Your endless "Because I say so" arguments are not especially compelling, especially given that they're usually contradicted by the evidence.

Animals Said to Have Spiritual Experiences : Discovery News : Discovery News

The fact that animals experience love, bereavement and other emotions is documented. Spirituality, or a sense of awe, is akin to emotions since they stem from the same part of the brain. Furthermore we have the evidence of "healing dogs" whose visits to ill people help them to get better. For the OP to make a specious claim that spirituality is the "most unique defining attribute" of mankind is not only arrogant but also ignorant.

Emotions are not spirituality. When Discovery has a special on apes and monkeys attending regular church services, I will be inclined to believe other animals have spiritual awareness and worship a higher power like humans. Until I see such evidence, I will maintain that human spirituality is our most defining attribute.

If a higher power were actually a part of nature, chimps would know it's there. Maybe they just can't delude themselves as easily as humans can.

 

[GibsonSG]

The logic of mathematics applies across the known universe. The value of Pi remains the same no matter which planet you are on.

Well we already know you've made a false assumption here. The logic of math doesn't apply inside a black hole. Nor does it apply to "dark matter" or "dark energy." These make up 96% of the universe. If our laws of physics don't apply, then neither does Pi.

However if you are saying that the definition of omnipotence is flawed then you are absolutely correct because omnipotence cannot exist given the current logical universe in which we exist.

You keep saying this but I don't see any explanation. The omnipotent force known as God, created logic and the logical universe in which we exist, including the reality in which we realize. It's not hindered and limited by it's own creation.

None of this equates to "God hating".

What equates to "god-hating" is people spending every waking hour on a message board, denouncing, rejecting, ridiculing and insulting a thing they claim to not believe in. Endlessly arguing a position they can never support against those who will never accept their argument. A true Atheist would not give two good shits.

For what purpose did god create the universe though? Because if it's to make humans so that god can have something to revere him, and burn those who don't, is a pretty dumb concept.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The logic of mathematics applies across the known universe. The value of Pi remains the same no matter which planet you are on.

Well we already know you've made a false assumption here. The logic of math doesn't apply inside a black hole. Nor does it apply to "dark matter" or "dark energy." These make up 96% of the universe. If our laws of physics don't apply, then neither does Pi.

However if you are saying that the definition of omnipotence is flawed then you are absolutely correct because omnipotence cannot exist given the current logical universe in which we exist.

You keep saying this but I don't see any explanation. The omnipotent force known as God, created logic and the logical universe in which we exist, including the reality in which we realize. It's not hindered and limited by it's own creation.

None of this equates to "God hating".

What equates to "god-hating" is people spending every waking hour on a message board, denouncing, rejecting, ridiculing and insulting a thing they claim to not believe in. Endlessly arguing a position they can never support against those who will never accept their argument. A true Atheist would not give two good shits.

Your pathetic lack of comprehension for common terms is glaringly obvious. The "known universe" doesn't encompass the interior of black holes or speculative things like dark matter and dark energy.

Now pay close attention this time because I will type this very slowly for your benefit.

1. Omnipotence means all powerful.

2. If your God can create something that he cannot destroy then he is not omnipotent because there is something that he cannot destroy.

3. If your God cannot create something that he cannot destroy then he not omnipotent because there is something that he cannot create.

4. Ergo your God cannot be omnipotent because omnipotence is a contradiction.

As far as your obsession with mythical "god-haters" that is entirely your problem. That they rule your world to the point where they are all you can think about says volumes. Your desperate need to start these inane threads over and over again where your delusions are exposed and debunked is the very definition of a mental illness on your part. You are expecting a different outcome each time and yet it always results in your ignorance being exposed.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Your endless "Because I say so" arguments are not especially compelling, especially given that they're usually contradicted by the evidence.

Animals Said to Have Spiritual Experiences : Discovery News : Discovery News

The fact that animals experience love, bereavement and other emotions is documented. Spirituality, or a sense of awe, is akin to emotions since they stem from the same part of the brain. Furthermore we have the evidence of "healing dogs" whose visits to ill people help them to get better. For the OP to make a specious claim that spirituality is the "most unique defining attribute" of mankind is not only arrogant but also ignorant.

Emotions are not spirituality. When Discovery has a special on apes and monkeys attending regular church services, I will be inclined to believe other animals have spiritual awareness and worship a higher power like humans. Until I see such evidence, I will maintain that human spirituality is our most defining attribute.

Thank you for admitting to being arrogant, narrow minded and ignorant.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Your endless "Because I say so" arguments are not especially compelling, especially given that they're usually contradicted by the evidence.

Animals Said to Have Spiritual Experiences : Discovery News : Discovery News

The fact that animals experience love, bereavement and other emotions is documented. Spirituality, or a sense of awe, is akin to emotions since they stem from the same part of the brain. Furthermore we have the evidence of "healing dogs" whose visits to ill people help them to get better. For the OP to make a specious claim that spirituality is the "most unique defining attribute" of mankind is not only arrogant but also ignorant.

Emotions are not spirituality. When Discovery has a special on apes and monkeys attending regular church services, I will be inclined to believe other animals have spiritual awareness and worship a higher power like humans. Until I see such evidence, I will maintain that human spirituality is our most defining attribute.

Actually, you have a point.

Humans are the only animals who want or need or do believe in magic sky fairies.

As far as we know ...

Maybe the apes and monkeys have their own gods who created them in his/her image. At this time, we're not smart enough to get that information from them.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The fact that animals experience love, bereavement and other emotions is documented. Spirituality, or a sense of awe, is akin to emotions since they stem from the same part of the brain. Furthermore we have the evidence of "healing dogs" whose visits to ill people help them to get better. For the OP to make a specious claim that spirituality is the "most unique defining attribute" of mankind is not only arrogant but also ignorant.

Emotions are not spirituality. When Discovery has a special on apes and monkeys attending regular church services, I will be inclined to believe other animals have spiritual awareness and worship a higher power like humans. Until I see such evidence, I will maintain that human spirituality is our most defining attribute.

Actually, you have a point.

Humans are the only animals who want or need or do believe in magic sky fairies.

As far as we know ...

Maybe the apes and monkeys have their own gods who created them in his/her image. At this time, we're not smart enough to get that information from them.

In one of the studies where a chimp was taught sign language there is evidence of it deliberately telling a lie. This evidence means that higher primates are probably capable of self deception.

 

[Boss]

The logic of mathematics applies across the known universe. The value of Pi remains the same no matter which planet you are on.

Well we already know you've made a false assumption here. The logic of math doesn't apply inside a black hole. Nor does it apply to "dark matter" or "dark energy." These make up 96% of the universe. If our laws of physics don't apply, then neither does Pi.

You keep saying this but I don't see any explanation. The omnipotent force known as God, created logic and the logical universe in which we exist, including the reality in which we realize. It's not hindered and limited by it's own creation.

None of this equates to "God hating".

What equates to "god-hating" is people spending every waking hour on a message board, denouncing, rejecting, ridiculing and insulting a thing they claim to not believe in. Endlessly arguing a position they can never support against those who will never accept their argument. A true Atheist would not give two good shits.

Your pathetic lack of comprehension for common terms is glaringly obvious. The "known universe" doesn't encompass the interior of black holes or speculative things like dark matter and dark energy.

Uhm... sorry but go do some research, scientists have confirmed that 96% of the universe is comprised of dark energy and dark matter. (not speculative) Black holes most certainly do exist in the universe, where else would we have observed them existing? Now if you want to argue that "known universe" is only the part of the universe where we know our math and physics apply, then that's fine... we only "know" 4% of the universe where that is the case. The other 96% is currently unknown and unexplainable with our math and physics. Uh oh... guess we can now "disbelieve" nearly the entire universe because science can't explain it!

Now pay close attention this time because I will type this very slowly for your benefit.

1. Omnipotence means all powerful.

Got it!

2. If your God can create something that he cannot destroy then he is not omnipotent because there is something that he cannot destroy.

Who said God can't destroy it?

3. If your God cannot create something that he cannot destroy then he not omnipotent because there is something that he cannot create.

Who says he can't? You're not omnipotent but you can create something that will destroy you, but you don't have to do that in order to prove you can.

4. Ergo your God cannot be omnipotent because omnipotence is a contradiction.

No, you are a contradiction. You're failing to comprehend that your sense of reality is a creation, an illusion that you experience which God created. He can destroy that illusion as easily as he created it, along with your perception of logic and reason. He can do this ten quadrillion times a nanosecond if he wants.

As far as your obsession with mythical "god-haters" that is entirely your problem. That they rule your world to the point where they are all you can think about says volumes. Your desperate need to start these inane threads over and over again where your delusions are exposed and debunked is the very definition of a mental illness on your part. You are expecting a different outcome each time and yet it always results in your ignorance being exposed.

I don't have an obsession. You've not "exposed" anything other than the point of the thread.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Emotions are not spirituality. When Discovery has a special on apes and monkeys attending regular church services, I will be inclined to believe other animals have spiritual awareness and worship a higher power like humans. Until I see such evidence, I will maintain that human spirituality is our most defining attribute.

Actually, you have a point.

Humans are the only animals who want or need or do believe in magic sky fairies.

As far as we know ...

Maybe the apes and monkeys have their own gods who created them in his/her image. At this time, we're not smart enough to get that information from them.

In one of the studies where a chimp was taught sign language there is evidence of it deliberately telling a lie. This evidence means that higher primates are probably capable of self deception.

I've read that too.

If only they had a god to worship, they wouldn't lie because, as we all know, god-believers never lie.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Getting back to the OP's question ...

Who hates "god"?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Well we already know you've made a false assumption here. The logic of math doesn't apply inside a black hole. Nor does it apply to "dark matter" or "dark energy." These make up 96% of the universe. If our laws of physics don't apply, then neither does Pi.

You keep saying this but I don't see any explanation. The omnipotent force known as God, created logic and the logical universe in which we exist, including the reality in which we realize. It's not hindered and limited by it's own creation.



What equates to "god-hating" is people spending every waking hour on a message board, denouncing, rejecting, ridiculing and insulting a thing they claim to not believe in. Endlessly arguing a position they can never support against those who will never accept their argument. A true Atheist would not give two good shits.

Your pathetic lack of comprehension for common terms is glaringly obvious. The "known universe" doesn't encompass the interior of black holes or speculative things like dark matter and dark energy.

Uhm... sorry but go do some research, scientists have confirmed that 96% of the universe is comprised of dark energy and dark matter. (not speculative) Black holes most certainly do exist in the universe, where else would we have observed them existing? Now if you want to argue that "known universe" is only the part of the universe where we know our math and physics apply, then that's fine... we only "know" 4% of the universe where that is the case. The other 96% is currently unknown and unexplainable with our math and physics. Uh oh... guess we can now "disbelieve" nearly the entire universe because science can't explain it!



Got it!



Who said God can't destroy it?



Who says he can't? You're not omnipotent but you can create something that will destroy you, but you don't have to do that in order to prove you can.

4. Ergo your God cannot be omnipotent because omnipotence is a contradiction.

No, you are a contradiction. You're failing to comprehend that your sense of reality is a creation, an illusion that you experience which God created. He can destroy that illusion as easily as he created it, along with your perception of logic and reason. He can do this ten quadrillion times a nanosecond if he wants.

As far as your obsession with mythical "god-haters" that is entirely your problem. That they rule your world to the point where they are all you can think about says volumes. Your desperate need to start these inane threads over and over again where your delusions are exposed and debunked is the very definition of a mental illness on your part. You are expecting a different outcome each time and yet it always results in your ignorance being exposed.

I don't have an obsession. You've not "exposed" anything other than the point of the thread.

Your original allegation;

The logic of math doesn't apply inside a black hole.

How math works inside of a black hole is "unknown" therefore it is not part of the "known universe". This simple logic is beyond your grasp!

Your next erroneous allegation;

scientists have confirmed that 96% of the universe is comprised of dark energy and dark matter.

That doesn't mean that scientists know what Dark Matter and Dark Energy actually are. They are still trying to figure it out. Simply because they put a name on something doesn't mean that they know everything about it. Dark Matter and Dark Energy are very much unknowns at the present time.

The evidence of your delusions;

No, you are a contradiction. You're failing to comprehend that your sense of reality is a creation, an illusion that you experience which God created. He can destroy that illusion as easily as he created it, along with your perception of logic and reason. He can do this ten quadrillion times a nanosecond if he wants.

That you had to go down this path says volumes about just how pathetic your position really is. To summarize you are claiming that reality is an illusion and only your God exists. Whereas the facts are that reality exists and your mythical God does not.

You have essentially wandered off into lalaland with this latest response. But logic and reason always causes this kind of cognitive dissonance once the rubber meets the road.

 

[edthecynic]

Your endless "Because I say so" arguments are not especially compelling, especially given that they're usually contradicted by the evidence.

Animals Said to Have Spiritual Experiences : Discovery News : Discovery News

The fact that animals experience love, bereavement and other emotions is documented. Spirituality, or a sense of awe, is akin to emotions since they stem from the same part of the brain. Furthermore we have the evidence of "healing dogs" whose visits to ill people help them to get better. For the OP to make a specious claim that spirituality is the "most unique defining attribute" of mankind is not only arrogant but also ignorant.

Emotions are not spirituality. When Discovery has a special on apes and monkeys attending regular church services, I will be inclined to believe other animals have spiritual awareness and worship a higher power like humans. Until I see such evidence, I will maintain that human spirituality is our most defining attribute.

There is nothing spiritual about attending church. The only higher power humans worship is the God Almighty Dollar.

BBC - Future - Death rituals in the animal kingdom

 

[edthecynic]

Getting back to the OP's question ...

Who hates "god"?

Boss

 

[Derideo_Te]

Actually, you have a point.

Humans are the only animals who want or need or do believe in magic sky fairies.

As far as we know ...

Maybe the apes and monkeys have their own gods who created them in his/her image. At this time, we're not smart enough to get that information from them.

In one of the studies where a chimp was taught sign language there is evidence of it deliberately telling a lie. This evidence means that higher primates are probably capable of self deception.

I've read that too.

If only they had a god to worship, they wouldn't lie because, as we all know, god-believers never lie.

There was another instance where the handler deliberately lied to the chimp and it become very upset. I can't find that article but it would suggest that there is an innate "morality" and sense of "right and wrong". Since no one has taught them about religion this must mean that it is a survival mechanism to be able to distinguish between truth and lies.

 

[Boss]

If a higher power were actually a part of nature, chimps would know it's there. Maybe they just can't delude themselves as easily as humans can.

Perhaps they do know it's there and they simply accept it and feel no obligation to worship it? But when you say "part of nature" you seem to indicate the problem you are having here, you don't comprehend there is a spiritual nature. To be a "part of nature" something has to be part of "physical nature" in your mind, because no other kind of nature exists.

If the human species had "deluded itself" into believing something imaginary, the Darwinian theory of natural selection has failed miserably. Other upper primates who did not compel themselves to be hindered by their imaginations would have surpassed humans long ago, rendering them extinct as a species. So it's certainly not a 'delusion' if Darwin was anywhere in the ballpark.

For what purpose did god create the universe though? Because if it's to make humans so that god can have something to revere him, and burn those who don't, is a pretty dumb concept.

I have no idea, maybe he was bored? Maybe we're some far out science project residing in God's closet on a shelf, long forgotten? God does not command you to revere him, not even in the Bible. Christians and other religious people may believe that it's a good idea to revere him... but that is religious belief. God is a spiritual energy, the best way for you to understand God is to think of God like electricity... does the electricity in a wall outlet want you to have illumination in the room? Does it become angry if you stick a butter knife in the outlet? Is it a good idea to respect it's power or can you handle it however you please without consequence? Look inside the outlet, do you see something physical in there? Can you find any physical proof of it's presence without some instrument to verify it?

Now you probably understand what electricity does and how it works, and you may even comprehend that it is an energy force that is not visible and doesn't conform to the principles of other physical matter. Do you know what it is? Why it exists in our universe, in our reality? Waht about gravity? There's another energy force that is not visible, doesn't have physical properties, it just exists in our universe and reality. We've done all kinds of calculations on gravity, and we've assumed several times that we understand the principles of it, only to find that we're not totally correct. Our math and physics are baffled when it comes to the behavior of gravity in certain circumstances. Does this mean gravity is not real and doesn't really exist? The same thing applies to spiritual nature, spiritual forces, spiritual energy and spiritual entities.

 

[dr.d]

Actually...its the extreme religious groups like the Westboro Baptist bunch certain ultra conservative religious leaders like Falwell that come across as hateful...blaming gays for nine-11 and picketing soldiers' funerals...
The atheists and agnostics I know of mostly have a "live and let live" attitude and r guided by huministic morality...


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Boss]

That doesn't mean that scientists know what Dark Matter and Dark Energy actually are. They are still trying to figure it out. Simply because they put a name on something doesn't mean that they know everything about it. Dark Matter and Dark Energy are very much unknowns at the present time.

Right.... and so is the case with God and spiritual nature. I rest my case.

 

[GibsonSG]

If a higher power were actually a part of nature, chimps would know it's there. Maybe they just can't delude themselves as easily as humans can.

Perhaps they do know it's there and they simply accept it and feel no obligation to worship it? But when you say "part of nature" you seem to indicate the problem you are having here, you don't comprehend there is a spiritual nature. To be a "part of nature" something has to be part of "physical nature" in your mind, because no other kind of nature exists.

If the human species had "deluded itself" into believing something imaginary, the Darwinian theory of natural selection has failed miserably. Other upper primates who did not compel themselves to be hindered by their imaginations would have surpassed humans long ago, rendering them extinct as a species. So it's certainly not a 'delusion' if Darwin was anywhere in the ballpark.

For what purpose did god create the universe though? Because if it's to make humans so that god can have something to revere him, and burn those who don't, is a pretty dumb concept.

I have no idea, maybe he was bored? Maybe we're some far out science project residing in God's closet on a shelf, long forgotten? God does not command you to revere him, not even in the Bible. Christians and other religious people may believe that it's a good idea to revere him... but that is religious belief. God is a spiritual energy, the best way for you to understand God is to think of God like electricity... does the electricity in a wall outlet want you to have illumination in the room? Does it become angry if you stick a butter knife in the outlet? Is it a good idea to respect it's power or can you handle it however you please without consequence? Look inside the outlet, do you see something physical in there? Can you find any physical proof of it's presence without some instrument to verify it?

Now you probably understand what electricity does and how it works, and you may even comprehend that it is an energy force that is not visible and doesn't conform to the principles of other physical matter. Do you know what it is? Why it exists in our universe, in our reality? Waht about gravity? There's another energy force that is not visible, doesn't have physical properties, it just exists in our universe and reality. We've done all kinds of calculations on gravity, and we've assumed several times that we understand the principles of it, only to find that we're not totally correct. Our math and physics are baffled when it comes to the behavior of gravity in certain circumstances. Does this mean gravity is not real and doesn't really exist? The same thing applies to spiritual nature, spiritual forces, spiritual energy and spiritual entities.

"Can you find any physical proof of it's (electricity) presence without some instrument to verify it? ". Yes, stick your finger into an open outlet and see what happens, then report back.
God can't be verified like electricity can = epic fail.

Gravity's not visible? Really? that's your position? Take something in your hand and let it go and see what happens, then report back.
So you admit that your spiritual nature has no proof. It's a start.

"in your mind, because no other kind of nature exists", and I said this where?

 

[Derideo_Te]

If a higher power were actually a part of nature, chimps would know it's there. Maybe they just can't delude themselves as easily as humans can.

Perhaps they do know it's there and they simply accept it and feel no obligation to worship it? But when you say "part of nature" you seem to indicate the problem you are having here, you don't comprehend there is a spiritual nature. To be a "part of nature" something has to be part of "physical nature" in your mind, because no other kind of nature exists.

If the human species had "deluded itself" into believing something imaginary, the Darwinian theory of natural selection has failed miserably. Other upper primates who did not compel themselves to be hindered by their imaginations would have surpassed humans long ago, rendering them extinct as a species. So it's certainly not a 'delusion' if Darwin was anywhere in the ballpark.

For what purpose did god create the universe though? Because if it's to make humans so that god can have something to revere him, and burn those who don't, is a pretty dumb concept.

I have no idea, maybe he was bored? Maybe we're some far out science project residing in God's closet on a shelf, long forgotten? God does not command you to revere him, not even in the Bible. Christians and other religious people may believe that it's a good idea to revere him... but that is religious belief. God is a spiritual energy, the best way for you to understand God is to think of God like electricity... does the electricity in a wall outlet want you to have illumination in the room? Does it become angry if you stick a butter knife in the outlet? Is it a good idea to respect it's power or can you handle it however you please without consequence? Look inside the outlet, do you see something physical in there? Can you find any physical proof of it's presence without some instrument to verify it?

Now you probably understand what electricity does and how it works, and you may even comprehend that it is an energy force that is not visible and doesn't conform to the principles of other physical matter. Do you know what it is? Why it exists in our universe, in our reality? Waht about gravity? There's another energy force that is not visible, doesn't have physical properties, it just exists in our universe and reality. We've done all kinds of calculations on gravity, and we've assumed several times that we understand the principles of it, only to find that we're not totally correct. Our math and physics are baffled when it comes to the behavior of gravity in certain circumstances. Does this mean gravity is not real and doesn't really exist? The same thing applies to spiritual nature, spiritual forces, spiritual energy and spiritual entities.

More arrant nonsense from boss!

God does not command you to revere him, not even in the Bible.

2 Kings 17:39
39 You must worship only the LORD your God. He is the one who will rescue you from all your enemies.

Hebrews 12:28-29
Since we are receiving a Kingdom that cannot be destroyed, let us be thankful and please God by worshiping him with holy fear and awe.

Just 2 examples picked at random!

 

[Derideo_Te]

That doesn't mean that scientists know what Dark Matter and Dark Energy actually are. They are still trying to figure it out. Simply because they put a name on something doesn't mean that they know everything about it. Dark Matter and Dark Energy are very much unknowns at the present time.

Right.... and so is the case with God and spiritual nature. I rest my case.

You don't have a case to rest!