Who works for minimum wage?

[beagle9]

A server is only paid (by us) minimum wage.
They actually make much more than that. They get raises based COMPLETELY on performance.
When a customer comes to me and tells me 'Susie' needs a raise I tell them that's up to them.

It's an entry-level position, though some make a good career out of it.
The good ones, with the motivation, can move up.

Any increase in costs to a business....whether labor or materials.....must be absorbed elsewhere

Regardless of what a company is making, these rules about absorption elsewhere still apply ? I mean how much does a company have to make before it begins to become the better company than the company next door ? You know the one where people say hey, I want to work at that company over there, because I hear they treat their employee's like this and like that, and they have better insurance and benefits also, so man if I could just get on with them that would be great? Now there is a unity that has been created in mindset with the upper echelon, where as they get together and come up with all these so called business class rules to follow, just so another company won't steel their employee's because they are doing wrong by them, so if they can get another company or companies to follow suit in this thinking, then it all begins going down hill for the employee's in a trend type situation that is being followed at the top, while the suits walk out with more money than one could shake a stick at, while leaving everyone else in the dust.

Tips once were a great thing for the servers, until greed got in on that one also. Now the feds want taxes out of something that is given to someone as a gift, then the companies also want the employee upon which the gift was given to, to then place that gift into a pot for sharing, and then the company is reaching into that pot as well, and is taking a percentage of that gift for themselves in which is thievery (imho), because that person based upon their performance for whom was given a gift by a customer based upon that performance, should keep every bit of that gift given them, because that is between them and the customer. PERIOD!

Why shouldn't a person receiving monetary compensation related to their job pay taxes on said compensation?

Because in the case of a tip, it is a gift for that employee going far beyond the call of duty to serve that customer, and for his or her job being performed in a professional manor that looks good on him or her, and also it brings that very important money spending customer back to the restaurant at a future date. Everybody wins, and the feds have enough tax money or revenue coming in, that they don't need to steal money from servers and babysitters who get compensated for their performance by way of a gift given unto them, and especially by a very thankful citizen who appreciated the person doing so well within their job for them.

I think the majority feels the same as I do on this, but somehow the greed of the government and the business sector had won on the issue, in which was a huge loss in many ways in which people never saw coming, and still are scratching their heads upon.

 

[OnePercenter]

The wage paid depends on the ability to do a job.
I am accustomed to a wage of $30/hr. Can I make that wage flipping burgers? No! because anyone with an IQ above 40 can learn to do that job in a few minutes. (it is easy to replace the worker with another qualified worker) I can make pieces from metal and maintain tolerances of 0.001" from a three view drawing. I get paid $30/hr. It is difficult to find a replacement that can do the same quality work in the same time I can do it. If there was a machine that could read those drawings and produce the same quality piece that I do and could be run by anyone with an IQ above 40 then that job would be worth the same wage as the guy flipping burgers.

Not every job is worth paying a "living wage" for its execution. Some jobs require a high degree of education, others a high degree of skill, and some require both. If you want a skill you either go to a technical college or serve as an apprentice. If you want an education then you go to a college. If you want both then you go to college get the degree and then serve an "apprenticeship" to gain the skill that is a companion to the education.

Some people have inspirations that lead them to a career that would normally require great skill or education to achieve otherwise but the key is that they offer something which people desire, no one else makes as desired, and they do it at a price that people are willing to pay that allows them to make a living.

The key here is that if you are not helping people with your product or service you will not be in business for long.

Why would an employer hire someone that lacks the ability to do a job?

 

[OnePercenter]

Regardless of what a company is making, these rules about absorption elsewhere still apply ? I mean how much does a company have to make before it begins to become the better company than the company next door ? You know the one where people say hey, I want to work at that company over there, because I hear they treat their employee's like this and like that, and they have better insurance and benefits also, so man if I could just get on with them that would be great? Now there is a unity that has been created in mindset with the upper echelon, where as they get together and come up with all these so called business class rules to follow, just so another company won't steel their employee's because they are doing wrong by them, so if they can get another company or companies to follow suit in this thinking, then it all begins going down hill for the employee's in a trend type situation that is being followed at the top, while the suits walk out with more money than one could shake a stick at, while leaving everyone else in the dust.

Tips once were a great thing for the servers, until greed got in on that one also. Now the feds want taxes out of something that is given to someone as a gift, then the companies also want the employee upon which the gift was given to, to then place that gift into a pot for sharing, and then the company is reaching into that pot as well, and is taking a percentage of that gift for themselves in which is thievery (imho), because that person based upon their performance for whom was given a gift by a customer based upon that performance, should keep every bit of that gift given them, because that is between them and the customer. PERIOD!

Why shouldn't a person receiving monetary compensation related to their job pay taxes on said compensation?

Because in the case of a tip, it is a gift for that employee going far beyond the call of duty to serve that customer, and for his or her job being performed in a professional manor that looks good on him or her, and also it brings that very important money spending customer back to the restaurant at a future date. Everybody wins, and the feds have enough tax money or revenue coming in, that they don't need to steal money from servers and babysitters who get compensated for their performance by way of a gift given unto them, and especially by a very thankful citizen who appreciated the person doing so well within their job for them.

I think the majority feels the same as I do on this, but somehow the greed of the government and the business sector had won on the issue, in which was a huge loss in many ways in which people never saw coming, and still are scratching their heads upon.

It has nothing to with greed of Government, it's compensation. Who cares who pays it.

 

[beagle9]

Why shouldn't a person receiving monetary compensation related to their job pay taxes on said compensation?

Because in the case of a tip, it is a gift for that employee going far beyond the call of duty to serve that customer, and for his or her job being performed in a professional manor that looks good on him or her, and also it brings that very important money spending customer back to the restaurant at a future date. Everybody wins, and the feds have enough tax money or revenue coming in, that they don't need to steal money from servers and babysitters who get compensated for their performance by way of a gift given unto them, and especially by a very thankful citizen who appreciated the person doing so well within their job for them.

I think the majority feels the same as I do on this, but somehow the greed of the government and the business sector had won on the issue, in which was a huge loss in many ways in which people never saw coming, and still are scratching their heads upon.

It has nothing to with greed of Government, it's compensation. Who cares who pays it.

It's a gift, now what part of someone giving you something beyond the amount of the meal don't you understand ? It's volunteer, one doesn't have to give anyone anything. Why is it that any other gift is exempt, except for that one in the eyes of the government ?

 

[HomeInspect]

Paying an unskilled worker a "living wage" would just be more socialism and spreading the wealth. A McDonald's worker making 12 dollars an hour means your hambuger now cost 7.00 instead of 2.50. It's amazing how the mindless can't see the simple cause and effect. Or maybe they can, ..... but socialism and government dependency is what they want.

 

[zeke]

Paying an unskilled worker a "living wage" would just be more socialism and spreading the wealth. A McDonald's worker making 12 dollars an hour means your hambuger now cost 7.00 instead of 2.50. It's amazing how the mindless can't see the simple cause and effect. Or maybe they can, ..... but socialism and government dependency is what they want.

Yea it is so much better for the unskilled worker to get food stamps and housing assistance paid for by the general public rather than have their employer pay them enough that they can live.

WTF?

And according to the right wingers, very few people actually work for minimum wage. SO how come those hamburgers don't cost 9 dollars right now. How could that be? Hell managers make much more than minimum wage. Is it their fault hamburgers don't cost a dollar?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be careers.

 

[FA_Q2]

Why would anyone attack the source, you have not used it to make a POINT.

You seem to be a regular at posting something and then not making a point about it. There is nothing to debate if you do not bring a subject and a contention to the table. Please clarify what you are getting at, why you used this particular graph and what your goals are for the thread. That might make debate possible.

Kinda hard to make a point when there isn't one.

Actually, me stating an opinion or pov does not make or break debate. In the case of this graphic, it stands quite well on its on. But, then, the facts always do.

I never asked for an opinio0n. I asked for a POINT and no, this graph does not stand on its own. It shows the obvious and simple truths. Nothing that is shocking or unreasonable at all unless you bother to make a contention about it.

 

[FA_Q2]

A server is only paid (by us) minimum wage.
They actually make much more than that. They get raises based COMPLETELY on performance.
When a customer comes to me and tells me 'Susie' needs a raise I tell them that's up to them.

It's an entry-level position, though some make a good career out of it.
The good ones, with the motivation, can move up.

Any increase in costs to a business....whether labor or materials.....must be absorbed elsewhere

Regardless of what a company is making, these rules about absorption elsewhere still apply ? I mean how much does a company have to make before it begins to become the better company than the company next door ? You know the one where people say hey, I want to work at that company over there, because I hear they treat their employee's like this and like that, and they have better insurance and benefits also, so man if I could just get on with them that would be great? Now there is a unity that has been created in mindset with the upper echelon, where as they get together and come up with all these so called business class rules to follow, just so another company won't steel their employee's because they are doing wrong by them, so if they can get another company or companies to follow suit in this thinking, then it all begins going down hill for the employee's in a trend type situation that is being followed at the top, while the suits walk out with more money than one could shake a stick at, while leaving everyone else in the dust.

Tips once were a great thing for the servers, until greed got in on that one also. Now the feds want taxes out of something that is given to someone as a gift, then the companies also want the employee upon which the gift was given to, to then place that gift into a pot for sharing, and then the company is reaching into that pot as well, and is taking a percentage of that gift for themselves in which is thievery (imho), because that person based upon their performance for whom was given a gift by a customer based upon that performance, should keep every bit of that gift given them, because that is between them and the customer. PERIOD!

You seem to have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when referring to servers (waiters). Most of this post is off base in what actually happens. Feds have always wanted a piece of that pie – that has nothing to do with ‘greed.’ The only real change in taxing has occurred because of the common use of the credit card leaving a physical record of the tips themselves where straight cash had no actual method of keeping waitresses honest in reporting wages. BTW, gifts ARE taxable after a certain limit.

The ‘pots’ that are set out to share a tip also are nothing new or have anything to do with greed. Most tip jars are set out at places where you do not have a set waiter. Places like a sushi restaurant have them because everyone behind that counter is involved in making your meal and servicing you. This is no different for any other service industry as well. Those jars are shared because the service of individual customers is ALSO shared. You realize that most waiters (if they are remotely intelligent) share those tips that you leave on the table as well. None of that goes to the company (particularly if they want to keep reasonable waiters) but rather there is an entire precession of people that are involved in your happiness with your service. From the cook getting that meal out to you as fast as possible to the busboy ensuring that the waiter’s tables are cleared out quickly for another customer – they all have something to offer the waiter. Most waiters share those tips with those people to ensure that their service is all around tip top. It is also customary to share some with the maître d' in more elegant restaurants (also as a matter of them getting the customers to your tables).

The compensation that the company gets is solely in low wages that are extremely low (below minimum in most restaurants) because the waiters are compensated through tips. Waitressing is likely the most well compensated low skill job in the end though. Tips account for a damn fine wage after everything is said and done if you are even a remotely decent worker.

 

[FA_Q2]

I think the way minimum wage should work by government standard is this, how about government looking at company profits individually for each company based upon their annual revenue posted to the IRS, and then all depending on the companies profits or revenue (a minimum wage), could be set for that company for entrance level pay as based upon a formula worked out for that company, instead of this blanket amount across the board the way it is set up now. This would be a more fair (imho) workings of the minimum wage standard, otherwise if the government is going to be involved in this at all. So if a company can afford to pay an entrance pay of say $15.00 dollars an hour, it will be evident that it can do so by it's revenue shown to the feds, and also by the type of company that it is (high tech) or maybe a supply and demand chain that is a huge profit maker like these corporate chains are (McDonald's for example) in which may warrant such an entrance rate for it's entrance employee's. Now if they are already above that or at that wage, then the fed takes no action at all, except maybe to congratulate them for being a quality and very important company for America and the Americans in which it serves. Now if a company isn't making enough money (starter maybe), then it will be understood by it's revenue shown also that it cannot pay the $15.00 dollars like the high tech company can, so the rate may be set at 7.50 an hour as worked out by a formula to accommodate that company as well. This would be the more fair thing to do in all of this, then there would be no problem in all of this (imho). This would be a way to begin building the middle class again, and making America strong in everyway possible again, otherwise when it us understood that doing things better is a good thing and not a bad thing for America.

Why not just have the government take over private industry as a whole. You are really not advocating anything different. Workers’ wages have almost nothing to do with profits by the way. Labor is a commodity and the value of that labor is DIRECTLY ties to its scarcity. Fast food workers are EVER going to be paid well because the labor that they contribute is simply available anywhere almost immediately. Turnover is irrelevant in a company that employs people with zero skill. Further, increasing the number of worthless pieces of paper that a fast food worker makes does NOTHING to increase the actual value of that labor. All you are doing is artificially inflating the value. ALL wages adjust from that minimum wage which results in the worker making the SAME value in the end. IOW, pay the a million dollars an hour and you still end up with them poor. There is no changing that no matter what you change the wage to. Other prices will adjust as well.

 

[FA_Q2]

Paying an unskilled worker a "living wage" would just be more socialism and spreading the wealth. A McDonald's worker making 12 dollars an hour means your hambuger now cost 7.00 instead of 2.50. It's amazing how the mindless can't see the simple cause and effect. Or maybe they can, ..... but socialism and government dependency is what they want.

Yea it is so much better for the unskilled worker to get food stamps and housing assistance paid for by the general public rather than have their employer pay them enough that they can live.

WTF?

And according to the right wingers, very few people actually work for minimum wage. SO how come those hamburgers don't cost 9 dollars right now. How could that be? Hell managers make much more than minimum wage. Is it their fault hamburgers don't cost a dollar?

Unskilled workers would STILL get those benefits even if you raised minimum wage to 30 bucks an hour. Other prices and other wages would adjust to reflect the new minimum but the VALUE of that commodity would still be EXACTLY the same. Those minimum wage earners would still make peanuts; it would just be peanuts with bigger numbers and more pieces of paper to hold onto.

The minimum wage is not keeping pace because the VALUE of that commodity is DROPPING as we enter into a smaller world with international product and slave wages. The VALUE of that commodity is DROPPING as we automate the more menial tasks and jobs. The VALUE of that commodity is DROPPING as we increase its availability and decrease the need for it.

All the people here are doing is advocating on putting a bandage on a problem that they do not understand or care to. This is not a straight numbers game – you can’t demand that a hot dog is actually worth 50 dollars and expect that to mean anything. In the same manner, you can’t demand that labor is worth at least 20, 30, 50 or a million dollars an hour and expect that to actually make that particular labor mean anything.

 

[FA_Q2]

I don't believe hiring people at the lowest possible wage is generally a good idea. I realize in some businesses it is necessary. However, I think far too many businesses fail to reach their potential because the owners simply fail to realize that their most important resource is their employees.

There's a restaurant near me which has been in business for about 25 years. The food and service is wonderful. They're consistently rated one on the best in area. They are not the cheapest but there're the best. I feel the secret of their successful is the owner is usually present and they pay well above minimum wage plus healthcare, 401K, and paid sick leave. The cashier told me they have not lost an employee in 7 years which is pretty remarkable in food service.

And you see how they have been successful with the added cost – something that works and works very well. Paying people what they are WORTH is always a better idea than undercutting them. Interestingly enough, the minimum wage is completely irrelevant to that. The principal is the same no matter what the minimum is.

 

[Immanuel]

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be careers.

Exactly, the question is why is that concept so hard to understand?

Immie

 

[HomeInspect]

Paying an unskilled worker a "living wage" would just be more socialism and spreading the wealth. A McDonald's worker making 12 dollars an hour means your hambuger now cost 7.00 instead of 2.50. It's amazing how the mindless can't see the simple cause and effect. Or maybe they can, ..... but socialism and government dependency is what they want.

Yea it is so much better for the unskilled worker to get food stamps and housing assistance paid for by the general public rather than have their employer pay them enough that they can live.

WTF?

And according to the right wingers, very few people actually work for minimum wage. SO how come those hamburgers don't cost 9 dollars right now. How could that be? Hell managers make much more than minimum wage. Is it their fault hamburgers don't cost a dollar?

NO. it's better that they use those jobs as starter jobs as they build work experience and better themselves with education and skills. Oh wait.. pay them enough so there is no incentive to do that.. right ?

Why is it that the left is always about dependency? Sorry bud... I don't want to pay more for my fast food burger because your type don't understand the difference between the unskilled starter employee and the manager.

 

[zeke]

Paying an unskilled worker a "living wage" would just be more socialism and spreading the wealth. A McDonald's worker making 12 dollars an hour means your hambuger now cost 7.00 instead of 2.50. It's amazing how the mindless can't see the simple cause and effect. Or maybe they can, ..... but socialism and government dependency is what they want.

Yea it is so much better for the unskilled worker to get food stamps and housing assistance paid for by the general public rather than have their employer pay them enough that they can live.

WTF?

And according to the right wingers, very few people actually work for minimum wage. SO how come those hamburgers don't cost 9 dollars right now. How could that be? Hell managers make much more than minimum wage. Is it their fault hamburgers don't cost a dollar?

Unskilled workers would STILL get those benefits even if you raised minimum wage to 30 bucks an hour. Other prices and other wages would adjust to reflect the new minimum but the VALUE of that commodity would still be EXACTLY the same. Those minimum wage earners would still make peanuts; it would just be peanuts with bigger numbers and more pieces of paper to hold onto.

The minimum wage is not keeping pace because the VALUE of that commodity is DROPPING as we enter into a smaller world with international product and slave wages. The VALUE of that commodity is DROPPING as we automate the more menial tasks and jobs. The VALUE of that commodity is DROPPING as we increase its availability and decrease the need for it.

All the people here are doing is advocating on putting a bandage on a problem that they do not understand or care to. This is not a straight numbers game – you can’t demand that a hot dog is actually worth 50 dollars and expect that to mean anything. In the same manner, you can’t demand that labor is worth at least 20, 30, 50 or a million dollars an hour and expect that to actually make that particular labor mean anything.

Really? You think the hated federal government would change the qualifying income levels for housing and food assistance when people are making 30 dollars (your number) an hour.

Why would that happen?

Labor rates will change (increase) when the demand for labor outstrips the supply. Like you said, labor is a commodity. If that never happens again, which may be the case, then entry level labor rates would be dropping IF the Federal government didn't impose mandatory minimums .Supply and demand.

Why is that so hard for right wingers to understand?

And why do you right wingers always go to such extremes when discussing minimum wage? Has anyone suggested 30 dollars an hour. Or a million dollars an hour, besides you right wingers?

But to think that you right wingers want the Federal government to subsidize low wage employees (not welfare recipients, but employees) with my tax dollars is outrageous . Just so the corporations you love and worship can make more and more money for the corporations. You all are crazy.

 

[Sunshine]

I used to make minimum wage. then I got a raise. all I did was put my heart, soul and ambition into it. now I do not worry about anything

Every successful poster on this forum has, at some time, worked for minimum wage. We just didn't want to settle for that or for the tiny increment above that. And a raise in minimum wage will never be more than a tiny increment. If you want to live well, you have to have more ambition than just a raise in your minimum wage. Kudos to the businesses that have figured out how to beat Obama care. Did he really think business owners where completely stupid? No need to answer. Of course he did.


.

 

[zeke]

Paying an unskilled worker a "living wage" would just be more socialism and spreading the wealth. A McDonald's worker making 12 dollars an hour means your hambuger now cost 7.00 instead of 2.50. It's amazing how the mindless can't see the simple cause and effect. Or maybe they can, ..... but socialism and government dependency is what they want.

Yea it is so much better for the unskilled worker to get food stamps and housing assistance paid for by the general public rather than have their employer pay them enough that they can live.

WTF?

And according to the right wingers, very few people actually work for minimum wage. SO how come those hamburgers don't cost 9 dollars right now. How could that be? Hell managers make much more than minimum wage. Is it their fault hamburgers don't cost a dollar?

NO. it's better that they use those jobs as starter jobs as they build work experience and better themselves with education and skills. Oh wait.. pay them enough so there is no incentive to do that.. right ?

Why is it that the left is always about dependency? Sorry bud... I don't want to pay more for my fast food burger because your type don't understand the difference between the unskilled starter employee and the manager.

The rate of teenagers working at any kind of job has dropped dramatically in the past 15 years. Fact.

The numbers of adult people working low pay jobs has increased dramatically in the past few years because those were the only jobs available. Maybe their company moved or closed down. They got laid off. And to keep people like you for coming down on them as worthless and shiftless, they took the only job they could find. One that paid something around minimum wage.

I really like the part about "building work experience while they get education and skills"
You have any idea how many people with college degrees are working coffee shops and fast food and book stores. A lot. Because that was the only job available to them.

And dude, you don't like the price of your fast food burger? Makes my think you are working for minimum wage if you can't afford a little more for a burger.

 

[zeke]

I used to make minimum wage. then I got a raise. all I did was put my heart, soul and ambition into it. now I do not worry about anything

Every successful poster on this forum has, at some time, worked for minimum wage. We just didn't want to settle for that or for the tiny increment above that. And a raise in minimum wage will never be more than a tiny increment. If you want to live well, you have to have more ambition than just a raise in your minimum wage. Kudos to the businesses that have figured out how to beat Obama care. Did he really think business owners where completely stupid? No need to answer. Of course he did.


.

You know what? I know plenty of people with ambition. You know what they are lacking? Opportunity. You think opportunity has ANYTHING to do with success in the work place?

 

[Barb]

You lefties just can't STAY out of PEOPLE'S lives...

now you nosy busy bodies think you have a right to know what others are payed and wail how YOU DON'T think that is enough and throw a temper tantrum on how YOU THINK companies should pay MORE...and I'd bet NONE of own or run a business

you people are tiring and annoying, as you believe this is showing YOU ONLY CARE when all it shows is you can't keep your nose out peoples lives
please go get and run own lives...stay the hell OUT of the rest of ours

but let people talk about abortion we get from you, stay out of our bedroom, our uterus and VAGINAS..

Um, vaginas don't invite filth like you into their business, but low wage workers DO ask the nation to take notice:

Raleigh, NC WalMart Gets A Flash Mob From Unfairly Fired Workers (VIDEO) | The Everlasting GOP Stoppers

 

[Barb]

because the American taxpayer makes up the difference, THAT'S why