What will happen if we do what Repubs want and Deregulate Business'

[ClosedCaption]

Besides worker abuse and tearing up the environment around these business'? Something has to be good and pretty dam honorable to be left alone and trusted to do the right thing, but business is not about doing the right thing, its about doing the profitable thing.

Not saying all regulations are a good thing, but hell, are we supposed to drop regulations and hope / pray that corporations will treat our land and workers the way society wants them too.

Now Thats a faith based ideology if there ever was one.

i suppose you think unions always do the *right think* dont act selfish and look at the bottom line .

i suppose you think expecting workers to do the job they are trusted with getting to work on time and not stealing from the boss is worker abuse .

do you or any of friends post on this site(or any other ) on the bosses time using the bosses computer and his place of employment .


hows that for corporation abuse ?

do you throw your cigarette butts on the florr or out the window , let your dog crap on public streets , throw your trash in the river ??
thats environment abuse .



.

You suppose wrong, thanks for playing

 

[ClosedCaption]

Do strawman arguments swim as well as thalidomide flipper babies from YOUR generation of, apparently, the golden age of product non-regulation?

Wait a minute....I thought the FDA was supposed to be a quasi-guarantee that we wouldn't end up with drugs that turned kids into "flipper babies".

But not only did we get Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon.....

Is that supposed to be proof of the success of the paternalistic nanny state?

No but that is proof that why those agencies are needed and should be beefed up or made more effecient

 

[Big Fitz]

Do strawman arguments swim as well as thalidomide flipper babies from YOUR generation of, apparently, the golden age of product non-regulation?

Wait a minute....I thought the FDA was supposed to be a quasi-guarantee that we wouldn't end up with drugs that turned kids into "flipper babies".

But not only did we get Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon.....

Is that supposed to be proof of the success of the paternalistic nanny state?

honest mistakes! Every last one of them. But we're the government and are entitled to get a pass on every 'honest mistake' we make because we've got...


GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD INNNNNNNNNNNTENSIONSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

And are therefore awesome in all ways forever, amen. Why can't you get this? You must be broken and need fixing... or removal. Yes, removal. That's easier and we have...

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
INNNNNNNNNNNNTENSIONSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just so you know, fascists always have those too.

 

[Oddball]

Do strawman arguments swim as well as thalidomide flipper babies from YOUR generation of, apparently, the golden age of product non-regulation?

Wait a minute....I thought the FDA was supposed to be a quasi-guarantee that we wouldn't end up with drugs that turned kids into "flipper babies".

But not only did we get Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon.....

Is that supposed to be proof of the success of the paternalistic nanny state?

No but that is proof that why those agencies are needed and should be beefed up or made more effecient

Oh, so failure is evidence that you need even more power.

Glad we could cut to the nut of the matter.

 

[Big Fitz]

Do strawman arguments swim as well as thalidomide flipper babies from YOUR generation of, apparently, the golden age of product non-regulation?

Wait a minute....I thought the FDA was supposed to be a quasi-guarantee that we wouldn't end up with drugs that turned kids into "flipper babies".

But not only did we get Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon.....

Is that supposed to be proof of the success of the paternalistic nanny state?

No but that is proof that why those agencies are needed and should be beefed up or made more effecient

Or privatized... see how that works out.

Who watches the watchmen?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Wait a minute....I thought the FDA was supposed to be a quasi-guarantee that we wouldn't end up with drugs that turned kids into "flipper babies".

But not only did we get Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon.....

Is that supposed to be proof of the success of the paternalistic nanny state?

No but that is proof that why those agencies are needed and should be beefed up or made more effecient

Oh, so failure is evidence that you need even more power.

Glad we could cut to the nut of the matter.

Well, if you think people dying from Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon is proof that we dont need people checking the products that the public uses, I'd love to hear it. It wont make sense, but I'd love to hear it

You'll just ask me another leading question

 

[Oddball]

No but that is proof that why those agencies are needed and should be beefed up or made more effecient

Oh, so failure is evidence that you need even more power.

Glad we could cut to the nut of the matter.

Well, if you think people dying from Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon is proof that we dont need people checking the products that the public uses, I'd love to hear it. It wont make sense, but I'd love to hear it

You'll just ask me another leading question

Well, I'd hate to let you down...

Who said I was in favor of nobody testing the safety and efficacy of drugs and medical devices?

Moreover, you also failed to show how failure of bureaucracy exists as proof that more power in the hands of bureaucrats is called for.

 

[ClosedCaption]

just like I thought...

So what is your position? do you have one or just a counter-position?

 

[Big Fitz]

just like I thought...

So what is your position? do you have one or just a counter-position?

Streamlining and reduction of regulation while dropping the costs required to develop and bring a product to market.

Verify the product does what it says it will and not harm the consumer and quit trying to control the marketplace or habits and behaviors of the citizens. Goddamn social engineers are part of what's wrong in the FDA.

And of course Tort Reform by reinstating the assumption of risk and 'loser pays' aspect back into the law. Slit the lawyer's throats in this regard and you will go a long way to lowering costs and making the world a better place.

 

[Oddball]

Ever heard of Underwriters' Laboratories and the The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety?

Now how does the failure of bureaucracy prove that they need more power?...Out in the real world, such foot-dragging, bungling and incompetence would be rewarded by that operation going out of business.

 

[Foxfyre]

No but that is proof that why those agencies are needed and should be beefed up or made more effecient

Oh, so failure is evidence that you need even more power.

Glad we could cut to the nut of the matter.

Well, if you think people dying from Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon is proof that we dont need people checking the products that the public uses, I'd love to hear it. It wont make sense, but I'd love to hear it

You'll just ask me another leading question

Nobody died from taking Thalidomide. Like a number of other drugs, it causes birth defects in infants, but there are few other side effects and it is an extremely effective drug for many chronic conditions that nothing else works as well on.

That was one of the really stupid regulations the FDA posed on the people. Because of the inherent dangers, it of course should be a regulated and prescription only drug, but rather than warning physicians to not prescribe it to women who are pregant or who could become pregant, it banned it outright so nobody could have it, even those for whom there is zero chance they could become pregnant.

I read recently where they were now considering lifting the ban or had already done so, but millions have suffered for decades now because they could not get that particular medication.

This is where the government goes overboard in overregulation. Yes regulate and restrict use for certain dangerous substances, but otherwise post warnings and leave it up to the people to govern themselves. Let us know the fat content, transfat content, vitamin content, calorie content of foods, yes, but then leave us alone to choose what we will eat. It is the government's responsibility to promote the general welfare by informing us what is and is not smart and healthy for us to do. It is not the government's responsibility to keep us alive longer if we choose to live our lives stupidly.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

produce is generally reconstituted and filled with preservatives and all kinds of chemical combinations meant to retain freshness, right? I mean, CLEARLY you don't see a significant difference between peeling a fucking banana and popping open a can of potted meat!

You also grew up in an age of thalidomide babies.

sorry to burst your bubble.

Apples are generally coated with wax to preserve freshness and add shine. That is true even of organic apples. Produce in general is covered in pesticides, fungicides, fertilizer, and various other chemicals. Believe it or not, I do see the difference, and I wash all fresh produce before I eat it, including bananas. If everyone did the same thing there would have been no outbreak of salmonella in from eating spinach a couple of years ago.

I have never washed the potted meat before I ate it.

Maybe you should go read the contents of a can of potted meat and get back to us with the comparison to.... wax on an apple.

These ingredients?

Mechanically Separated Chicken, Beef Tripe, Partially Defatted Cooked Beef Fatty Tissue, Beef Hearts, Water, Partially Defatted Cooked Pork Fatty Tissue, Salt. Less than 2 percent: Mustard, Natural Flavorings, Dried Garlic, Dextrose, Sodium Erythorbate, Sodium Nitrite

In case you are curious, mechanically separated chicken is a paste of chicken and crushed bone forced through a sieve to remove the larger pieces of bone.

I love potted meat. It is on my list of top ten foods, and I would be happy to be stuck on a desert island with enough of it to keep me alive for a few years.

None of which changes the fact that there are no labels on produce, or that potted meat is generally safer than raw produce.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What kind of fucked up preservative infused fruit are you buying? Do your green bell peppers cut more like a lab-produced tofu than, you know, a vegetable?

THIS truly is a silly tangent for rebuttal. seriously. I mean, what's NOT different about a TV Dinner and, you know, carrots from the produce section?

Green bell peppers, I forgot about them. Any fruit or vegetable that looks shiny in the store is covered in wax. Did you think the shine is natural?

Would you care to compare WAX with

Ingredients: Mechanically Separated Chicken, Beef Tripe, Partially Defatted Cooked Beef Fatty Tissue, Beef Hearts, Water, Partially Defatted Cooked Pork Fatty Tissue, Salt. Less than 2 percent: Mustard, Natural Flavorings, Dried Garlic, Dextrose, Sodium Erythorbate, Sodium Nitrite

You really want to go there?

Wax used on fruit typically comes from shellac (made form lac insect secretions found in egg sacs,) carnuba wax, or petroleum products (paraffin, mineral oil, and polyethylene.)

Which sounds worse, bug piss or mechanically separated chicken?

Would you like to know how many loaves of bread you eat before you have swallowed a cockroach? Or a rat?

 

[Big Fitz]

Oh, so failure is evidence that you need even more power.

Glad we could cut to the nut of the matter.

Well, if you think people dying from Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon is proof that we dont need people checking the products that the public uses, I'd love to hear it. It wont make sense, but I'd love to hear it

You'll just ask me another leading question

Nobody died from taking Thalidomide. Like a number of other drugs, it causes birth defects in infants, but there are few other side effects and it is an extremely effective drug for many chronic conditions that nothing else works as well on.

That was one of the really stupid regulations the FDA posed on the people. Because of the inherent dangers, it of course should be a regulated and prescription only drug, but rather than warning physicians to not prescribe it to women who are pregant or who could become pregant, it banned it outright so nobody could have it, even those for whom there is zero chance they could become pregnant.

I read recently where they were now considering lifting the ban or had already done so, but millions have suffered for decades now because they could not get that particular medication.

This is where the government goes overboard in overregulation. Yes regulate and restrict use for certain dangerous substances, but otherwise post warnings and leave it up to the people to govern themselves. Let us know the fat content, transfat content, vitamin content, calorie content of foods, yes, but then leave us alone to choose what we will eat. It is the government's responsibility to promote the general welfare by informing us what is and is not smart and healthy for us to do. It is not the government's responsibility to keep us alive longer if we choose to live our lives stupidly.

Thalidomide can cure leprosy for one. Just don't be taking it while pregnant or thinking of having children.

 

[Big Fitz]

Natural Flavorings

My personal favorite because that can mean so many possible things. sort of like "Fragrance" can include industrial chemicals that normally come with a serious MSDS and disposal instructions.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

....AAAAaaaaand there it is, folks... the ole, "So what if a few people die as long as I feel validated in my retarded fucking political ideology".

Clearly, asbestos in schools and lead paint on toys are fine as long as they don't kill HIS kids.

That is not what I said.

By the way, do you support the ban on DDT?

If so, you support something that has killed more people than any other government regulation I can think of. Silent Spring was the An Inconvenient Truth of its day, right down the the scaremongering and the junk science. If the big pesticide companies had not thrown their money behind the effort to ban DDT science would have eventually won out, the world would have a lot less malaria, and you would never have heard of bird flu.

oh good grief. Why do you people keep trying to change the subject when your weak ass opinion burns up in flames?

Feeling a little desperate in defending your silly fucking argument, eh?


Do strawman arguments swim as well as thalidomide flipper babies from YOUR generation of, apparently, the golden age of product non-regulation?

Thalidomide was a federally approved drug, not sure exactly how you mentioning it bolsters your position, but feel free to enlighten me.

As for lead paint on toys, don't let your kids eat them and it will not kill them either.

I take it from your reaction that you have no rejoinder to the DDT regulation killing more people than any lack of regulation ever did. If I am wrong and you actually have a point, feel free to enlighten the world.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Do strawman arguments swim as well as thalidomide flipper babies from YOUR generation of, apparently, the golden age of product non-regulation?

Wait a minute....I thought the FDA was supposed to be a quasi-guarantee that we wouldn't end up with drugs that turned kids into "flipper babies".

But not only did we get Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon.....

Is that supposed to be proof of the success of the paternalistic nanny state?

No but that is proof that why those agencies are needed and should be beefed up or made more effecient

The fact that they totally failed is proof that we need them!

 

[ClosedCaption]

Wait a minute....I thought the FDA was supposed to be a quasi-guarantee that we wouldn't end up with drugs that turned kids into "flipper babies".

But not only did we get Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon.....

Is that supposed to be proof of the success of the paternalistic nanny state?

No but that is proof that why those agencies are needed and should be beefed up or made more effecient

The fact that they totally failed is proof that we need them!

The fact that who failed? The govt or the companies that put out those drugs?

 

[Foxfyre]

The fact is that government cannot protect us from every harm that exists.

The fact is that drug companies can do reasonable research, testing, and evaluation before releasing a new product, and the government regulatory agency will make an honest effort to determine its probable effectiveness as well as risks involved. And both are going to miss something now and then.

If government must make sure there is zero risk with any product before we are allowed to use it, none of us would be allowed to use anything. If drug companies must identify every possible downside of a new product before they release it, we would still be suffering from many hundreds of physical maladies that we can now avoid or cure or get relief through the products developed by pharmaceutical companies.

EVERY food substance is a risk to somebody.
EVERY medicine contains a little poison.

Every one of us is at risk of something just by getting out of bed in the morning. None of us know that we won't be killed by lightning or falling aircraft or a stray meteorite or some substance that accidentally got into our food on any given day. The best that good government can do, that drug companies can do, that we can do is to exercise reasonable caution. Beyond that we all just do the best we can do avoid unnecessary risk and live our lives.

 

[The T]

The fact is that government cannot protect us from every harm that exists.

The fact is that drug companies can do reasonable research, testing, and evaluation before releasing a new product, and the government regulatory agency will make an honest effort to determine its probable effectiveness as well as risks involved. And both are going to miss something now and then.

If government must make sure there is zero risk with any product before we are allowed to use it, none of us would be allowed to use anything. If drug companies must identify every possible downside of a new product before they release it, we would still be suffering from many hundreds of physical maladies that we can now avoid or cure or get relief through the products developed by pharmaceutical companies.

EVERY food substance is a risk to somebody.
EVERY medicine contains a little poison.

Every one of us is at risk of something just by getting out of bed in the morning. None of us know that we won't be killed by lightning or falling aircraft or a stray meteorite or some substance that accidentally got into our food on any given day. The best that good government can do, that drug companies can do, that we can do is to exercise reasonable caution. Beyond that we all just do the best we can do avoid unnecessary risk and live our lives.

The Founders were hopeful that their succeeding generations would be educated enough to understand that, and be entrusted to make decisions regarding their own lives and liberty without government intrusion.

We have too many generations of outright babies that wince at the first sign of failure...or their first defeat at attempting life.