What will happen if we do what Repubs want and Deregulate Business'

[edthecynic]

Who bought up the railroads is irrelevant to the fact that a public rights-of-way were abused, and the regulators of that public good stood aside and allowed the collusion to occur.


So you have massive incompetence and failure to enforce free interstate commerce, and your "solution" is to reward that incompetence and corruption with even more power to rule and regulate?

Yeah.....Right.

RAAAAAR

Wrong....And here's why.

You're going back to the dawn of the industrial revolution -a friggin' century- as some kind of "proof" that we need even more rules and regulations in the here and now.

We have more rules, regulations, regulators and bureaucrats right now than anytime in the nation's history......Yet still we get Charles Keating, Michale Miklen, Ivan Boesky, Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff and even a freaking unrepentant tax evader as the goddamn Secretary of the Treasury!

But, somehow or another, real deregulation -as opposed to mere rearranging of the regulatory deck chars, peddled under the rubric of "reform"- is supposed to give us worse results?

Dude, you're no cynic...You've got a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[edthecynic]

I already gave an example, the banking monopoly which preceded the Fed

So your fear of private monopolies is one that ended over a century ago. I don't agree with you it was a monopoly, but that's irrelevant. You can't name private monopolies that exist actually today and yet you're in hysterical fear of them.

Monopolies did not end! All that happened is the monopolists switched from holding companies to control their monopolies to banks. Banks are immune to all antitrust laws.

For example, when Rockefeller was forced to break up his Standard Oil holding company, some shareholders tried to oust him from the Standard Oil board. On paper after the breakup he owned only 25% of the company. However he voted 60% of the proxies. He still had complete control of the oil monopoly.

Here is why Rockefeller switched to banking after he was forced to divest. Banks buy stocks in the name of various funds like pension funds who are the ones listed as the OWNERS of the stock, but the bank VOTES the stock. Banks are obviously more powerful than holding companies.

So monopolies are just as real today as they were 100 years ago, just hidden better, as proven by the number of people who think monopolies ended 100 years ago.

 

[Kerry Won Ohio]

What will happen if we do what Repubs want and Deregulate Business? .

Why do you assume you have the right to regulate business in the first place?

You're absolutely right, you unsophisticated know-nothing lump of tea bagger shit -- businesses should be allowed to do ANYTHING that they want:

If businesses want to form a consortium and force all Americans to work 80 - 100 hours per week, well, hey, it's their right. Corporations deserve more rights than people, after all.

If businesses want to form a consortium and force all Americans to work for 50 cents per hours, well, hey, it's their right. Corporations deserve more rights than people, after all.

If businesses want to employ 8 year olds to work in dangerous mines, well, hey it's their right.

If businesses want their employees to work on dangerous oil rigs while safety regulations are ignored (such as BP did in the Gulf last summer), well, hey, it's their right.

If Wall Street wants to gamble everything in the derivatives market and wreck the economy, like they did in 2008, well, hey, it's their right.

You're simply a mother fucking idiot. End of story.

 

[jgarden]

I think a proposal by Sen Paul of KY is reasonable -- Any new regulation that would add an estimated $100M or so to costs or would have a significant effect on the price of goods or services would require congressional approval. That way you put it on congress to actually vote on significant regulations instead of punting to some regulatory agency and potentially leaving it to the courts.

Tobacco use is the leading preventable cause of premature death in the United States. It is estimated that directly or indirectly, tobacco causes more than 400,000 deaths in the U.S. annually, a figure that represents nearly 20 percent of all U.S. deaths. These deaths have been attributed to a number of conditions defined as tobacco-related, including heart disease (115,000 deaths), cancer (136,000), chronic pulmonary disease (60,000), and stroke (27,000).

http://www.acde.org/common/Tobacco.htm

I find it bizarre that any federal politician from Kentucky, or any other "tobacco state," would have the audacity to pass judgement on regulatory agencies established to protect the American people.

Who protects the American people from them?

 

[Shogun]

HOW EVER did we survive before idiotic Gubmint mandated LABELS?

I guarantee that if your grocery store had 2 sections, one for mandatory labeled food and one for anything goes unlabeled food,

you wouldn't shop in the latter section.

I would, and I bet that you would too.

In fact, my bet is that you already do it. The anything goes food is in the produce section.

I would also like to point out that most of us grew up without mandatory labeling, and it did not cause half the problems you think it would to get rid of it.

produce is generally reconstituted and filled with preservatives and all kinds of chemical combinations meant to retain freshness, right? I mean, CLEARLY you don't see a significant difference between peeling a fucking banana and popping open a can of potted meat!

You also grew up in an age of thalidomide babies.

sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Shogun]

HOW EVER did we survive before idiotic Gubmint mandated LABELS?

I guarantee that if your grocery store had 2 sections, one for mandatory labeled food and one for anything goes unlabeled food,

you wouldn't shop in the latter section.

But they already do...It's called the produce section....I buy tons of stuff from there.

What kind of fucked up preservative infused fruit are you buying? Do your green bell peppers cut more like a lab-produced tofu than, you know, a vegetable?

THIS truly is a silly tangent for rebuttal. seriously. I mean, what's NOT different about a TV Dinner and, you know, carrots from the produce section?

 

[Shogun]

HOW EVER did we survive before idiotic Gubmint mandated LABELS?

Tell that to someone with a peanut allergy.

People with allergies are not the standard the rest of the world should live with. It is not the governments job to ensure the life of the exception to the rule.

....AAAAaaaaand there it is, folks... the ole, "So what if a few people die as long as I feel validated in my retarded fucking political ideology".

Clearly, asbestos in schools and lead paint on toys are fine as long as they don't kill HIS kids.

 

[Shogun]

HOW EVER did we survive before idiotic Gubmint mandated LABELS?

Tell that to someone with a peanut allergy.

And we all know how terrible it was in the olden days, tripping over over all those dead people in the streets killed by peanut allergies!

well, you know, as opposed to how much you are bitching about a label that, chances are, you don't look at anyway... terrible INDEED!

 

[Shogun]

Anybody who has read many of my posts on the political threads knows that I am a Constitutional originalist and a minimalist when it comes to the federal government. I want the federal government to secure our rights and do what it is constitutionally mandated to do and then leave us the hell alone to govern ourselves.

But I believe the federal government is constitutionally mandated to promote the general welfare and I have no problem with that including honest labeling of the food products we buy. When I buy a box of cereal or a can of peas I want to know what is in the box and what is in the can. If such labeling was not required, the door is wide open for unscrupulous profiteers to put just about anything in the box or can as filler or preservative or flavoring or whatever and we would have no way of knowing without hiring our own chemist which would be cost prohibitive and extremely unhandy.

With so much of our food crossing state lines and international boundaries, it is not feasible for the states to do this function as their costs of enforcing it outside of their jurisdiction would also be prohibitive.

Oh come ON, COMMIE! Don't you earn for a return to the day when cough medicine consisted of watered whiskey and child mortality?

I mean, it's not as if we have historic examples of all kinds of crazy shit fed to the public BEFORE current regulations.

goddamn commies.

 

[JohnA]

Besides worker abuse and tearing up the environment around these business'? Something has to be good and pretty dam honorable to be left alone and trusted to do the right thing, but business is not about doing the right thing, its about doing the profitable thing.

Not saying all regulations are a good thing, but hell, are we supposed to drop regulations and hope / pray that corporations will treat our land and workers the way society wants them too.

Now Thats a faith based ideology if there ever was one.

i suppose you think unions always do the *right think* dont act selfish and look at the bottom line .

i suppose you think expecting workers to do the job they are trusted with getting to work on time and not stealing from the boss is worker abuse .

do you or any of friends post on this site(or any other ) on the bosses time using the bosses computer and his place of employment .


hows that for corporation abuse ?

do you throw your cigarette butts on the florr or out the window , let your dog crap on public streets , throw your trash in the river ??
thats environment abuse .



.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I guarantee that if your grocery store had 2 sections, one for mandatory labeled food and one for anything goes unlabeled food,

you wouldn't shop in the latter section.

I would, and I bet that you would too.

In fact, my bet is that you already do it. The anything goes food is in the produce section.

I would also like to point out that most of us grew up without mandatory labeling, and it did not cause half the problems you think it would to get rid of it.

produce is generally reconstituted and filled with preservatives and all kinds of chemical combinations meant to retain freshness, right? I mean, CLEARLY you don't see a significant difference between peeling a fucking banana and popping open a can of potted meat!

You also grew up in an age of thalidomide babies.

sorry to burst your bubble.

Apples are generally coated with wax to preserve freshness and add shine. That is true even of organic apples. Produce in general is covered in pesticides, fungicides, fertilizer, and various other chemicals. Believe it or not, I do see the difference, and I wash all fresh produce before I eat it, including bananas. If everyone did the same thing there would have been no outbreak of salmonella in from eating spinach a couple of years ago.

I have never washed the potted meat before I ate it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I guarantee that if your grocery store had 2 sections, one for mandatory labeled food and one for anything goes unlabeled food,

you wouldn't shop in the latter section.

But they already do...It's called the produce section....I buy tons of stuff from there.

What kind of fucked up preservative infused fruit are you buying? Do your green bell peppers cut more like a lab-produced tofu than, you know, a vegetable?

THIS truly is a silly tangent for rebuttal. seriously. I mean, what's NOT different about a TV Dinner and, you know, carrots from the produce section?

Green bell peppers, I forgot about them. Any fruit or vegetable that looks shiny in the store is covered in wax. Did you think the shine is natural?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Tell that to someone with a peanut allergy.

People with allergies are not the standard the rest of the world should live with. It is not the governments job to ensure the life of the exception to the rule.

....AAAAaaaaand there it is, folks... the ole, "So what if a few people die as long as I feel validated in my retarded fucking political ideology".

Clearly, asbestos in schools and lead paint on toys are fine as long as they don't kill HIS kids.

That is not what I said.

By the way, do you support the ban on DDT?

If so, you support something that has killed more people than any other government regulation I can think of. Silent Spring was the An Inconvenient Truth of its day, right down the the scaremongering and the junk science. If the big pesticide companies had not thrown their money behind the effort to ban DDT science would have eventually won out, the world would have a lot less malaria, and you would never have heard of bird flu.

 

[editec]

I'm still waiting for this list of "unnecessary" regulations that some think we can do without.

You'll keep waiting.

The people here who claim that regulations are a problem aren't into DETAILS.

They are completely faith-based idealogues and cannot be bothered with FACTS AND DETAILS.

They might hoist the CRA as the one regulation that they've been told is bad.

Few of them understand it, and none of them can connect the dots to show us how that causes any difficulty, either.

You cannot debate the worth or problems of regulations with people who aren't into FACTS AND DETAILSabout regulations.

Hence these online discussions typically devolve into ad hominen attacks on people who DO PAY ATTENTION to regulations and their costs to society.

 

[Shogun]

I would, and I bet that you would too.

In fact, my bet is that you already do it. The anything goes food is in the produce section.

I would also like to point out that most of us grew up without mandatory labeling, and it did not cause half the problems you think it would to get rid of it.

produce is generally reconstituted and filled with preservatives and all kinds of chemical combinations meant to retain freshness, right? I mean, CLEARLY you don't see a significant difference between peeling a fucking banana and popping open a can of potted meat!

You also grew up in an age of thalidomide babies.

sorry to burst your bubble.

Apples are generally coated with wax to preserve freshness and add shine. That is true even of organic apples. Produce in general is covered in pesticides, fungicides, fertilizer, and various other chemicals. Believe it or not, I do see the difference, and I wash all fresh produce before I eat it, including bananas. If everyone did the same thing there would have been no outbreak of salmonella in from eating spinach a couple of years ago.

I have never washed the potted meat before I ate it.

Maybe you should go read the contents of a can of potted meat and get back to us with the comparison to.... wax on an apple.

 

[Shogun]

But they already do...It's called the produce section....I buy tons of stuff from there.

What kind of fucked up preservative infused fruit are you buying? Do your green bell peppers cut more like a lab-produced tofu than, you know, a vegetable?

THIS truly is a silly tangent for rebuttal. seriously. I mean, what's NOT different about a TV Dinner and, you know, carrots from the produce section?

Green bell peppers, I forgot about them. Any fruit or vegetable that looks shiny in the store is covered in wax. Did you think the shine is natural?

Would you care to compare WAX with

Ingredients: Mechanically Separated Chicken, Beef Tripe, Partially Defatted Cooked Beef Fatty Tissue, Beef Hearts, Water, Partially Defatted Cooked Pork Fatty Tissue, Salt. Less than 2 percent: Mustard, Natural Flavorings, Dried Garlic, Dextrose, Sodium Erythorbate, Sodium Nitrite

 

[Shogun]

People with allergies are not the standard the rest of the world should live with. It is not the governments job to ensure the life of the exception to the rule.

....AAAAaaaaand there it is, folks... the ole, "So what if a few people die as long as I feel validated in my retarded fucking political ideology".

Clearly, asbestos in schools and lead paint on toys are fine as long as they don't kill HIS kids.

That is not what I said.

By the way, do you support the ban on DDT?

If so, you support something that has killed more people than any other government regulation I can think of. Silent Spring was the An Inconvenient Truth of its day, right down the the scaremongering and the junk science. If the big pesticide companies had not thrown their money behind the effort to ban DDT science would have eventually won out, the world would have a lot less malaria, and you would never have heard of bird flu.

oh good grief. Why do you people keep trying to change the subject when your weak ass opinion burns up in flames?

Feeling a little desperate in defending your silly fucking argument, eh?


Do strawman arguments swim as well as thalidomide flipper babies from YOUR generation of, apparently, the golden age of product non-regulation?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Yummy!

I can dip my Vienna Sausages in that and I'm good to go.

 

[Shogun]

just a little tap water rinse away from unquestioned consumption!

 

[Oddball]

Do strawman arguments swim as well as thalidomide flipper babies from YOUR generation of, apparently, the golden age of product non-regulation?

Wait a minute....I thought the FDA was supposed to be a quasi-guarantee that we wouldn't end up with drugs that turned kids into "flipper babies".

But not only did we get Thalidomide, we also got Vioxx, Phen-fen, Darvon.....

Is that supposed to be proof of the success of the paternalistic nanny state?