What is the first thing you think of when you look at this?

[Ravi]

Miami is not "the South"

 

[JBeukema]

This wars main cause was slavery.

No, it was about states rights.

Slavery was just a side show. [/quote
A side show that was citied by the secessionists in their writings when they explained their reason for ceding...

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

Miami is not "the South"

Not the traditional, commonly thought of south, but yes, it is.

 

[Sunni Man]

Miami is not "the South"

Not the traditional, commonly thought of south, but yes, it is.

Miami is a cesspool and has Nothing to do with the traditional South.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Miami is not "the South"

Not the traditional, commonly thought of south, but yes, it is.

The only thing "south" about Miami is geography.

Otherwise? It's just an overgrown rest home for NYC.

 

[JBeukema]

Don't deny the fact, DownssyndromeMatters, that the state's rights argument is also valid. But saying that it was one without the other is being disingenuous at best. It was over the issue of a state's right to have slavery be legal.

END OF FUCKING ARGUMENT!!!!!

If it were just about states rights, then why didn't the Northern States secede when they were exercising their right and power of interposition to fight federal abuse in the form of the fugitive slave act?


Why was it only slavery that was worth fighting for? And only slave states that thought 'states rights' mattered?


And why did they declare slavery and not 'states' rights' as casus belli for war?

 

[JBeukema]

ram you head back up your ass.

The civil war was caused by slavery.

The only people who deny this fact are the cons who cant deal with reailty and retain their failed ideas and beleive in facts

 

[Si modo]

Well, since the OP asked. . . .

I was born and raised in the South and I was rarely exposed to racism or people who were unkind to people of other races and I was never exposed to anybody who condoned slavery. . . .so. . . .

To me that Confederate flag has always represented a time in U.S. history, a certain independent spirit, and a tragic war in which many wrongs were done on both sides and in which much nobility was demonstrated on both sides.

More recently it conjures up some of the images some of you have raised: great southern cooking unrivaled anywhere, Nascar, independence, states rights, and respect for historical context. I still do not think racism or racists or slavery when I see that flag.

And finally, since I've been participating in threads like this, I associate the flag with intolerance and misunderstanding and historical ignorance from those who will not allow anybody to appreciate it in any context other than the most negative (racism, slavery etc.)

. . . .since you asked. . . .

When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms. Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black. I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.

I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County. And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks. Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.

Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.

Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country.

Maybe in the company you kept. Not in the company I kept. The worst incidents of racism, bigotry, and homophobia I have ever witnessed were north of the Mason Dixon line.

I've not only been to, but have lived, in many regions of the USA - north, south, east, west, midwest, Texas (a whole nuther blahblahblah) - and the most racist place I have ever lived, by far, is the Detroit area. No contest. I was stunned at the amount of racism there, to be honest.

 

[JBeukema]

Well, since the OP asked. . . .

I was born and raised in the South and I was rarely exposed to racism or people who were unkind to people of other races and I was never exposed to anybody who condoned slavery. . . .so. . . .

To me that Confederate flag has always represented a time in U.S. history, a certain independent spirit, and a tragic war in which many wrongs were done on both sides and in which much nobility was demonstrated on both sides.

More recently it conjures up some of the images some of you have raised: great southern cooking unrivaled anywhere, Nascar, independence, states rights, and respect for historical context. I still do not think racism or racists or slavery when I see that flag.

And finally, since I've been participating in threads like this, I associate the flag with intolerance and misunderstanding and historical ignorance from those who will not allow anybody to appreciate it in any context other than the most negative (racism, slavery etc.)

. . . .since you asked. . . .

When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms. Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black. I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.

I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County. And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks. Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.

Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.

Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country.

I went through "A" school in Millington in late 1969.

Sometimes we'd head down to Southhaven, Mississippi to drink. I remember seeing signs on some of the establishments that said "No *******, No Sailors".

Yes, the south is a very racist area of this country. But then again, how would you feel if you fought a war to prove you were better than slaves and lost?

You can find assholes, racists, and racists assholes anywhere you go...

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

Miami is not "the South"

Not the traditional, commonly thought of south, but yes, it is.

The only thing "south" about Miami is geography.

Otherwise? It's just an overgrown rest home for NYC.

Lil Cuba works better.

 

[Sunni Man]

I've not only been to, but have lived, in many regions of the USA - north, south, east, west, midwest, Texas (a whole nuther blahblahblah) - and the most racist place I have ever lived, by far, is the Detroit area. No contest. I was stunned at the amount of racism there, to be honest.

I lived in Boston for awhile.

The amount of racism there was off the scale!

I heard more racist comments in a just a few months.

Than I had ever heard in all of my years growing up and working in the South.

But yet, the average lefty liberal Bostonian person thinks the South is totally racist.

And that they are the most non racist tolerant people on the face of the earth..

Go figure.

 

[MaggieMae]

The rebel flag flown during the Civil War. Sometimes a picture is just a picture, and an old flag is just an old flag. Unless you're looking to start a fight in 2010, that is.

 

[Mini 14]

The elephant in the room:

The silence is deafening

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms. Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black. I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.

I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County. And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks. Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.

Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.

Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country.

Yeah, 40 years ago. Today it's nothing like you described. I've lived here for four years and the amount of bigotry I've seen here is no more or less than what I saw growing up in Boston.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I went through "A" school in Millington in late 1969.

Sometimes we'd head down to Southhaven, Mississippi to drink. I remember seeing signs on some of the establishments that said "No *******, No Sailors".

Yes, the south is a very racist area of this country. But then again, how would you feel if you fought a war to prove you were better than slaves and lost?

Again, you're using examples from 40 years ago. See my post above.

 

[MaggieMae]

The elephant in the room:

The silence is deafening

Okay, I give up. What is this one (since you failed to tell us in your link)?

 

[Mini 14]

The elephant in the room:

The silence is deafening

Okay, I give up. What is this one (since you failed to tell us in your link)?

That's part of the point.

No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.

It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.

The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.

But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!

The hypocrisy is laughable.

 

[MaggieMae]

The elephant in the room:

The silence is deafening

Okay, I give up. What is this one (since you failed to tell us in your link)?

That's part of the point.

No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.

It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.

The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.

But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!

The hypocrisy is laughable.

Thank you for the information. I think by the time the country began acting more like nation builders and less like usurpers who happened to practice genocide, it should have been a given that the kind of inequality practiced against Africans would no longer be tolerated. But it was.

 

[Foxfyre]

When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms. Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black. I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.

I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County. And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks. Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.

Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.

Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country.

Maybe in the company you kept. Not in the company I kept. The worst incidents of racism, bigotry, and homophobia I have ever witnessed were north of the Mason Dixon line.

I've not only been to, but have lived, in many regions of the USA - north, south, east, west, midwest, Texas (a whole nuther blahblahblah) - and the most racist place I have ever lived, by far, is the Detroit area. No contest. I was stunned at the amount of racism there, to be honest.

The thing that always amazes me is that the ones who are the first to scream RACISM when they see a Confederate flag are often the ones who are the most judgmental and hateful to their fellow members they disagree with here on USMB and probably elsewhere.

I am guessing that most if not all who don't immediately think RACISM when they see the Confederate flag are neither racist or overly intolerant of others and probably look for the good or positive in most thngs.

 

[Sunni Man]

That's part of the point.

No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.

It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.

The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.

But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!

The hypocrisy is laughable.

The real hypocrisy is you and the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma.

I grew up in Oklahoma with Indian kids from several tribes. So I know the real truth about Native Americans and black slaves.

Most Americans have No idea that the Cherokees owned large plantations and had thousand of black slaves. As did several other tribes in the Indian Territory known as Oklahoma.

SLAVE REVOLT OF 1842

Of the Five Civilized Tribes, the Cherokees were the largest holder of Africans as chattel slaves. By 1860 the Cherokees had 4,600 slaves. Many Cherokees depended on them as a bridge to white society. Full-blood Indian slave owners relied on the blacks as English interpreters and translators. Mainly, however, slaves worked on farms as laborers or in homes as maids or servants. The Cherokees feared the aspect of a slave revolt, and that is just what happened in 1842 at Webbers Falls.

On the morning of November 15 more than twenty-five slaves, mostly from the Joseph Vann plantation, revolted. They locked their masters and overseers in their homes and cabins while they slept. The slaves stole guns, horses, mules, ammunition, food and supplies. At daybreak the group, which included men, women, and children, headed toward Mexico, where slavery was illegal. In the Creek Nation the Cherokee slaves were joined by Creek slaves, bringing the group total to more than thirty-five. The fugitives fought off and killed a couple of slave hunters in the Choctaw Nation.

The Cherokee Nation sent the Cherokee Militia, under Capt. John Drew, with eighty-seven men to catch the runaways. This expedition was authorized by the Cherokee National Council in Tahlequah on November 17, 1842. The militia caught up with the slaves seven miles north of the Red River on November 28, 1842. The tired, famished fugitives offered no resistance.

The party returned to Tahlequah on December 8, 1842. Five slaves were executed, and Joseph Vann put the majority of his rebellious slaves to work on his steamboats, which worked the Arkansas, Mississippi, and Ohio Rivers. The Cherokees blamed the incident on free, armed black Seminoles who lived in close proximity to the Cherokee slaves at Fort Gibson. On December 2, 1842, the Cherokee Nation passed a law commanding all free African Americans, except former Cherokee slaves, to leave the nation.

SLAVE REVOLT OF 1842