What is a moderate muslim?

[Provocateur]

I don't think that Allah wasn't praised by all Muslims on 9/11.

They are believers in the Koran, and the stated outcomes found in the Koran.


I don't fault them for their conviction.



People are pretty stupid to not appreciate their conviction, however.

 

[eots]

Not sure what you mean? They won't generally, openly, oppose murder and mayhem because that might get them killed. They would prefer that until such time as Muslims have such a superior position that it can not be assailed that war and terrorism not be employed except in dire circumstances. For the supposed moderates the current terrorism and wars cause losses they feel are unacceptable and may wake the infidels up to the real threat, what is happening in Europe for Example, France and Germany have major problems with Muslim immigrants and in Sweden the Government has abandoned areas of some cities because of Muslim street violence to non Muslims.

I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm talking about moderates. Rather than pull Muslims out of the humanity mix (like Sunni Man wishes to do with worldwide Jewry) I put them back into humanity and decry extremist thinking.

Those who have moderate souls do not discuss the wholesale genocide of a people. They do not even begin discussion on such a thing although moderates will come and discuss their distaste for such things.

My view.

By your definition NO DEVOUT Muslim is moderate. They all support an eventual world where ONLY Muslims exist.

what do Mormons believe is the fate of other faiths ?

 

[Provocateur]

That is not what i said.

No, not in so many words. But the way you phrased the question could be interpreted to suggest such. After all, you did say "Moderate Muslim," and not "Moderate Terrorist" or "Moderate Jihadist," and either of the latter would have better framed the question... That is, unless you do mean to say that level of devoutness is analgous to level of militantism.

Do you agree that there's no ceiling on level of devoutness sans militantism?

I dont think so... terrorist and jihadist are the far end of the scale, a 10, but still fall under muslim.

It is a simple question... what is a moderate muslim? I gave a scale.

I have no idea what a muslim would consider moderate.

If you asked, they would tell you that that characterization doesn't exist.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I see this term bandied about, but what is it really?

On the muslim scale of 1 – 10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site. Is not everything that comes in the middle of that… moderate?

I would like to know what is “moderate? What do moderates think, say, act.

What is moderate in western terms and what is moderate in muslim terms? I am sure they are VERY different definitions of the where “moderate” falls.

We have some Muslim friends. Some are more strict than others. None believe there is adequate religious reason to kill someone. One couple goes out for a beer and pool with us once in a while.
There are a lot of verses in the Bible that justify violence, mistreatment of women, taking over the world etc... Just as there are verses in the Qu Ran.
But the Qu Ran says some things that The Bible does not. While the Bible is often used to teach intolerance and danmation of other religions, the Qu Ran specifically says "Respect and revere the devout Christian and the Jew". So there's one up on the Bible.
It also says "He who kills a single innocent, it would be as if he killed 1,000 but he who saves the life of a single innocent, it would be as if he saved the whole world."
or pretty close to thatm anyway. Been a long time since college.

So Moderate Muslims? Same as moderate Christians, Jews or whatever...

Except for one small problem...... Infidels are by definition NOT innocent. And be so kind as to quote for us a single major world leader of Islam that supports the teaching on devout Christians and Jews?

 

[eots]

By your definition NO DEVOUT Muslim is moderate. They all support an eventual world where ONLY Muslims exist.

I disagree.

Learn what the religion TEACHES. It is a REQUIREMENT of the faith that eventually the entire world be Muslim. No Muslim that believes the faith and is devout believes otherwise, they only differ on how to reach the goal.

so whats happens to most of humanity in revelations ?

 

[Provocateur]

I see this term bandied about, but what is it really?

On the muslim scale of 1 – 10 with 1 being your live and let live, peaceful, and allowing women equal rights muslim. 10 being your average burka enforcing al-quaeda bombing and killing everything non muslim in site. Is not everything that comes in the middle of that… moderate?

I would like to know what is “moderate? What do moderates think, say, act.

What is moderate in western terms and what is moderate in muslim terms? I am sure they are VERY different definitions of the where “moderate” falls.

We have some Muslim friends. Some are more strict than others. None believe there is adequate religious reason to kill someone. One couple goes out for a beer and pool with us once in a while.
There are a lot of verses in the Bible that justify violence, mistreatment of women, taking over the world etc... Just as there are verses in the Qu Ran.
But the Qu Ran says some things that The Bible does not. While the Bible is often used to teach intolerance and danmation of other religions, the Qu Ran specifically says "Respect and revere the devout Christian and the Jew". So there's one up on the Bible.
It also says "He who kills a single innocent, it would be as if he killed 1,000 but he who saves the life of a single innocent, it would be as if he saved the whole world."
or pretty close to thatm anyway. Been a long time since college.

So Moderate Muslims? Same as moderate Christians, Jews or whatever...

Except for one small problem...... Infidels are by definition NOT innocent. And be so kind as to quote for us a single major world leader of Islam that supports the teaching on devout Christians and Jews?

Hippies don't believe you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I'm not talking about Muslims. I'm talking about moderates. Rather than pull Muslims out of the humanity mix (like Sunni Man wishes to do with worldwide Jewry) I put them back into humanity and decry extremist thinking.

Those who have moderate souls do not discuss the wholesale genocide of a people. They do not even begin discussion on such a thing although moderates will come and discuss their distaste for such things.

My view.

By your definition NO DEVOUT Muslim is moderate. They all support an eventual world where ONLY Muslims exist.

what do Mormons believe is the fate of other faiths ?

Big ass difference. NOT one single belief of Mormons concerns US making the world only Mormon, No commandments to kill the infidel, no commandment to kill unbelievers, no commandment to kill those that renounce the faith. No commandment to convert OR kill anyone. Just as all Christian faiths God commands we go forth and preach his word so that others may be saved. BUT we do not, nor does the bible, Jesus or God, condone murder, forced conversion or poor treatment of those that do not convert.

BIG ASS RED HERRING. Or would you prefer strawman?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I disagree.

Learn what the religion TEACHES. It is a REQUIREMENT of the faith that eventually the entire world be Muslim. No Muslim that believes the faith and is devout believes otherwise, they only differ on how to reach the goal.

so whats happens to most of humanity in revelations ?

Once again with the STRAWMAN argument. God sends Jesus to destroy Lucifer and his army of followers. Or can you provide for us in the New testament or the Book of Mormon a commandment that MAN cleanse the world of Satan? That man wage war on unbelievers and kill them or force their conversion? That those that leave the faith be killed?

 

[Cuyo]

That is not what i said.

No, not in so many words. But the way you phrased the question could be interpreted to suggest such. After all, you did say "Moderate Muslim," and not "Moderate Terrorist" or "Moderate Jihadist," and either of the latter would have better framed the question... That is, unless you do mean to say that level of devoutness is analgous to level of militantism.

Do you agree that there's no ceiling on level of devoutness sans militantism?

I dont think so... terrorist and jihadist are the far end of the scale, a 10, but still fall under muslim.

It is a simple question... what is a moderate muslim? I gave a scale.

I have no idea what a muslim would consider moderate.

I don't know if you're misunderstanding my question or dodging it intentionally.

Put simply; Do you believe the most devout Muslims are always the most militant? Or are we talking about two different sliding scales here?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No, not in so many words. But the way you phrased the question could be interpreted to suggest such. After all, you did say "Moderate Muslim," and not "Moderate Terrorist" or "Moderate Jihadist," and either of the latter would have better framed the question... That is, unless you do mean to say that level of devoutness is analgous to level of militantism.

Do you agree that there's no ceiling on level of devoutness sans militantism?

I dont think so... terrorist and jihadist are the far end of the scale, a 10, but still fall under muslim.

It is a simple question... what is a moderate muslim? I gave a scale.

I have no idea what a muslim would consider moderate.

I don't know if you're misunderstanding my question or dodging it intentionally.

Put simply; Do you believe the most devout Muslims are always the most militant? Or are we talking about two different sliding scales here?

One can be devout and not advocate murder and mayhem right now and maybe not for hundreds of years. But in the end their faith commands them to make all mankind subservient to Allah BY their actions. Not by Allah's.

 

[eots]

Learn what the religion TEACHES. It is a REQUIREMENT of the faith that eventually the entire world be Muslim. No Muslim that believes the faith and is devout believes otherwise, they only differ on how to reach the goal.

so whats happens to most of humanity in revelations ?

Once again with the STRAWMAN argument. God sends Jesus to destroy Lucifer and his army of followers. Or can you provide for us in the New testament or the Book of Mormon a commandment that MAN cleanse the world of Satan? That man wage war on unbelievers and kill them or force their conversion? That those that leave the faith be killed?

Islam

Main articles: Islamic eschatology and Qiyamah
There are various signs (as many as up to 100) given in the Sunnah and Quran for the coming of Judgment Day. These signs can be divided into two parts, minor and major. The major signs include
And you will see people entering religion of God in crowds. (Qur'an Surat an-Nasr, 1-2)
the coming of the one-eyed Dajjal (Evil Antichrist), Imam Mahdi and then Prophet Jesus (who will combine forces of good, against evil), (Qur'an 43:61)
the blowing of Trumpet and the minor signs will precede them.
the Earth will experience an earthquake that will cause mountains to crash down. The Earth's inner body will break out, and the Earth will be stretched out.99:1, 69:13-14, 70:8, 84:3-4, 20:105-107, 99:1-6.
Earthquakes from the East, the West, and one in the Arabian Peninsula
Gog (yahjuj) & Magog (mahjuj) will be released and will destroy the crops, animals, water and kill everything.
Smoke will spread and cause non-believers to fall ill whereas the believers will catch a mere cold. Later, Allah will send a cool wind, taking life (gently) from all of the believers, leaving only the Kufaars (unbelievers) to see the last day till the Day Of Judgment will arrive.
End time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Provocateur]

By your definition NO DEVOUT Muslim is moderate. They all support an eventual world where ONLY Muslims exist.

what do Mormons believe is the fate of other faiths ?

Big ass difference. NOT one single belief of Mormons concerns US making the world only Mormon, No commandments to kill the infidel, no commandment to kill unbelievers, no commandment to kill those that renounce the faith. No commandment to convert OR kill anyone. Just as all Christian faiths God commands we go forth and preach his word so that others may be saved. BUT we do not, nor does the bible, Jesus or God, condone murder, forced conversion or poor treatment of those that do not convert.

BIG ASS RED HERRING. Or would you prefer strawman?

Nearly all conflict in the world right now is a result of Islamic beliefs.


List of ongoing military conflicts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[eots]

And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take avengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

 

[eots]

what do mormons believe is the fate of other faiths ?

big ass difference. Not one single belief of mormons concerns us making the world only mormon, no commandments to kill the infidel, no commandment to kill unbelievers, no commandment to kill those that renounce the faith. No commandment to convert or kill anyone. Just as all christian faiths god commands we go forth and preach his word so that others may be saved. But we do not, nor does the bible, jesus or god, condone murder, forced conversion or poor treatment of those that do not convert.

Big ass red herring. Or would you prefer strawman?

nearly all conflict in the world right now is a result of islamic beliefs.


list of ongoing military conflicts - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

your link does not indicate that

 

[Outback]

I worked on a farm run by a muslim family..one day the old guy 80 and still working in the fields... explained to men his culture 2 woman leave the field a hour early and prepare the dinner...while the men finish off the loading and paper work...he had a grand daughter she was only 5 and she loved doing the count putting a line for each box of produce loaded,she would sit on grampas lap while he drove the little tractor with a fork lift and knew how to raise and lower the forks up ,all the workers where paid cash daily and her favorite part of all was handing on the cash because it made everyone happy..So I replied to his comment by saying...I really dont think Nadia his {grand-daughter} will be content with leaving the field an hour earlier to make dinner for the men...I think she will running the show...he laughed and shook his said and said yes this true isn't even in my culture things are changing...

Did you ever hear him or them attempt to discuss and advocate genocide?

No never and we would talk for hours ..he was a very caring and kind man ..he was ultimately the boss of the field and his family but he was very patient and kind to his adult children and grand children and workers

Yep, that jack sounds moderate to me.

 

[Provocateur]

big ass difference. Not one single belief of mormons concerns us making the world only mormon, no commandments to kill the infidel, no commandment to kill unbelievers, no commandment to kill those that renounce the faith. No commandment to convert or kill anyone. Just as all christian faiths god commands we go forth and preach his word so that others may be saved. But we do not, nor does the bible, jesus or god, condone murder, forced conversion or poor treatment of those that do not convert.

Big ass red herring. Or would you prefer strawman?

nearly all conflict in the world right now is a result of islamic beliefs.


list of ongoing military conflicts - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

your link does not indicate that

If you understood any of the conflicts, it would.

 

[elvis]

And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take avengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czb4jn5y94g]Pulp Fiction - YouTube[/ame]

 

[eots]

The Book of Mormon says. . .

"And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10).

 

[Provocateur]

And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take avengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

We get it, Christians anger you.

That doesn't have a lot to do with the hearts of Muslims, however, which is the discussion at hand.

 

[eots]

nearly all conflict in the world right now is a result of islamic beliefs.


list of ongoing military conflicts - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

your link does not indicate that

if you understood any of the conflicts, it would.

you mean if I viewed them from your twisted perspective