What is a conservative, anyway?

[Gord]

It is quite simple being a conservative. You only have to blame others for anything that bothers you or happens to be wrong in the world.

And if you are a liberal you can blame Bush for every problem in the world...

 

[William Joyce]

Please help me. I'd like to be a good conservative, but I'm not sure how.

Is it enough to believe in free enterprise and limited government, or do I have to believe that the limited government has the unlimited right to determine when a woman may have an abortion?

Can I just believe in the 10th. amendment, or do I also have to believe that the federal government has to determine who may and may not marry?

I believe in lower taxes, of course, but do I also have to believe that we need to support the commander in chief whenever he decides it's time to spend a half trillion or so on a nation building project?

Is in enough to believe in lower taxes, or do I also have to believe in unlimited borrowing and ever increasing spending?

Is it really necessary to believe the what Bush I called "voodoo economics" really works, or is it OK to think that wealth in the hands of the average American will trickle up?

Do I really have to deny modern science, declare global warming a hoax, and join a church that believes that the theory of evolution is hokum?

I'd really like to polish my conservative credentials. I may want to run for office as a Republican.

I'd run as a Libertarian, but no one seems to want to vote for that party. They have no chance of winning, you see, since no one will vote for them because they have no chance of winning.

Easy:

Just wet your pants if anyone accuses you of being a "racist."

Then run around acting like people give a crap about the capital gains tax rate.

Then flub your lips about why Roe v. Wade still stands and gay marriage is sweeping the nation, if "the religious right" controls America, as the trust-fund leftists in the street tell me.

*

Seriously, the posters citing to Kirk are right... he got it more than the "neocon" movement of today, which is probably WORSE than regular old liberalism. Kirk, for the edification of the class, was NOT a free-trader. In fact, though he rarely discussed actual laws and policies, he championed England's corn laws, for God's sake (protectionist measures designed to shelter the traditional agricultural life in Britain).

*

For me, conservatism is about this: any time we set out to make a government or laws, we need to consider the realities of human beings and their social existence. Then, work from there. In other words, "the reality-based community." Liberals upend that: they say, never mind who people really are. Let's start with who we think they should be, and go from there. Nuh-uh. That's backward. And a recipe for death and disaster.

 

[musicman]

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to William Joyce again.

 

[editec]

Can you give a real example of anything where a real conservative has unjustifiably blamed someone else for their problems?

"They hate us for our freedoms."​

Bush II

"I was misinformed about Weapons of Mass destruction"​

(paraphrased) Bush II

"I trusted the banks"​

Alan Greenspan

Now I know what you're going to tell me, Bern... yhat the above aren't REAL conservatives.

I actually agree with you. They aren't conservatives. They are Neocons.

Neo-cons, according to the editecian unabriged dicctionary, are people who hate representational government and the American people, because the American people aren't pandering peasants who kneel before them.

But those guys currently OWN the conservative franchise and most people who you probably think of a real conservatives put THEM in power because they so feared liberals that they felt they had no choice but to support the NEO-CONS.

So the conservative movement still has to accept responsibility for the NEO-CONS who ran on that so called laissez fair platform for the last thirty years.

The conservatives have to assume their share of the responsibility for the fact that those guys, the NEO CONS and the internationalists (basically the DEMS who also loved FREE TRADE) BROKE capitalism (again)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And if you are a liberal you can blame Bush for every problem in the world...

Not for long.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"They hate us for our freedoms."​

Bush II

"I was misinformed about Weapons of Mass destruction"​

(paraphrased) Bush II

"I trusted the banks"​

Alan Greenspan

Now I know what you're going to tell me, Bern... yhat the above aren't REAL conservatives.

I actually agree with you. They aren't conservatives. They are Neocons.

Neo-cons, according to the editecian unabriged dicctionary, are people who hate representational government and the American people, because the American people aren't pandering peasants who kneel before them.

But those guys currently OWN the conservative franchise and most people who you probably think of a real conservatives put THEM in power because they so feared liberals that they felt they had no choice but to support the NEO-CONS.

So the conservative movement still has to accept responsibility for the NEO-CONS who ran on that so called laissez fair platform for the last thirty years.

The conservatives have to assume their share of the responsibility for the fact that those guys, the NEO CONS and the internationalists (basically the DEMS who also loved FREE TRADE) BROKE capitalism (again)

You are getting more idiotic with each post. The only one that blames someone for something not in their control is the last one.

I will remind you that terrorists do IN FACT hate us for our Freedoms.

I will remind you once again that in fact EVERYONE in the Western WORLD believed Saddam Hussein had WMD's, they believed in some countries he was just a couple years from getting a nuclear weapon as well. Including EVERY democratic leader we had.

 

[Red Dawn]

You are getting more idiotic with each post. The only one that blames someone for something not in their control is the last one.

I will remind you that terrorists do IN FACT hate us for our Freedoms.

I will remind you once again that in fact EVERYONE in the Western WORLD believed Saddam Hussein had WMD's, they believed in some countries he was just a couple years from getting a nuclear weapon as well. Including EVERY democratic leader we had.

Laughable.

They might dislike our relatively liberal social mores. But, that's not why they attack us. If they hated progressive and socially liberal societies so much that it provoked them into attacking, the Scandanavian countries and the Dutch would be the focus of their attacks. Hello, legal prostitution, and liberal divorce and abortion laws? They attack us because they have a political agenda, and they have political reasons pertaining to their perceptions of our policies in Arab countries.


Thinking that Saddam might have some chemical weapons stockpiles is one thing. Deciding that that was a good reason to spend a trillion dollars to invade and occupy is another. You're still unable to accept your responsibility for making a piss poor decision, and starting a costly and bloody war for dubious and indeed unneccessary reasons. Invading and occupying is not the only option to deal with a petty third world thug who might have some mustard gas.

As for the nukes, I don't know what Sean Hannity ordered you to believe. But the IAEA reported in February or March of 2003 that there was no evidence at all - not a single iota - that Saddam had a nuclear weapons program.

 

[Gord]

And if you are a liberal you can blame Bush for every problem in the world...

Not for long.

I wish it were true. But Bush Derangement Syndrome is going to be a lifelong affliction for liberals. They will go on blaming Bush for every hangnail and terrorist attack for decades to come...

 

[PatBuchanan]

Pro-life...even for unborn babies who can't defend themselves. Pro-gun. Pro-American sovereignty (anti-UN). Very limited government hand-outs. There is no "free lunch". Hard working taxpayers are getting tired of feeding the free-loaders. I should not have to press #1 to listen to my options in English. Can't speak English? Learn it now, or get the &%*@ out! Also, read the Mayflower Compact....This was always intended to be a Christian nation. We want the 10 Commandments back in the court houses and public schools!

 

[editec]

Bush is NOT responisble for every problem that we face.

He IS responsible for getting us stuck to that tarbaby called Iraq though.

Likwise he is responsible in part for the screwy tax advantages we give to billionaires.

Plenty of blame to go around folks.

Don't be foolish enough to think that Bush II acted alone.

He had PLENTY of help from the feckless Dems.

 

[Old Rocks]

It's all right here, plain and simple:

Yep. To promote common welfare, a real heath care system, instead of the broken one we have at present.

For common defense, get our people out of unneccessary wars, quit supporting a thousand unneccessary bases overseas, and give our servicemen the tools they need to defend this nation.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

A US Conservative is an American; a classic 'liberal'; one that pursues and defends individual liberty and the inalienable God-given human rights inherent in liberty, for themselves and their neighbors from the tyranny of leftism. A Conservative seeks to defend the principles on which the United States is founded; those set forth in the founding document of the United States and on which the US Constitution rest; US Conservatism is the absolute opposite of the freedom killing ideological left which seeks through inherent ignorance, the collective freedom from work and want; and it does so on the backs of ACTUAL Americans; OKA: Conservatives.

 

[Old Rocks]

A US Conservative is an American; a classic 'liberal'; one that pursues and defends individual liberty and it's inalienable God-given human rights for themselves and their neighbors against the tyranny of leftism. A Conservative is the absolute opposite of the freedom killing leftist which seeks through their inherent ignorance, collective freedom from work and want on the backs of the Americans.

What a crock. You fellows have done more against the working American than any of the wing ding leftists that America has ever had. Today's conservative totally supported the Bush encroachments on our Constitutional Rights. They supported an unneccessary war based on lies. They ignored the failure to bring to justice the man that masterminded the murder of 3000 Americans on American soil. They supported policies that have led to the Second Great Republican Depression.

You mean in the 46 years I have worked, more six day weeks than five day, that I have been bumming off of the CEOs that have recieved tens of millions of dollars apeice for failure? Under the present Conservative President, we have seen massive welfare for the rich. Now that it has all gone bust, all you fellows that were claiming that Bush talked to God, are now abandoning him like the good little rats that you are.

Well, the next eight years are going to see major change. And it will be Progressive Change, a real health care system, an end to unneccesary wars. A switch to alternative energies, addressing both our national security issues and climate change. An administration in which scientists are not censured. One is which knowledge is respected, not sneered at. Ain't it going to be fun

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

What a crock. You fellows have done more against the working American than any of the wing ding leftists that America has ever had. Today's conservative totally supported the Bush encroachments on our Constitutional Rights. They supported an unneccessary war based on lies. They ignored the failure to bring to justice the man that masterminded the murder of 3000 Americans on American soil. They supported policies that have led to the Second Great Republican Depression.

You mean in the 46 years I have worked, more six day weeks than five day, that I have been bumming off of the CEOs that have recieved tens of millions of dollars apeice for failure? Under the present Conservative President, we have seen massive welfare for the rich. Now that it has all gone bust, all you fellows that were claiming that Bush talked to God, are now abandoning him like the good little rats that you are.

Well, the next eight years are going to see major change. And it will be Progressive Change, a real health care system, an end to unneccesary wars. A switch to alternative energies, addressing both our national security issues and climate change. An administration in which scientists are not censured. One is which knowledge is respected, not sneered at. Ain't it going to be fun

ROFL...

A classic example of the ignorance of leftism...

This idiot compares her work and thus laments her due paltry compensation with CEOs making tens of millions in realized annual compensation. When the simple fact is IF she were WORTH tens of millions she would have been compensated with tens of millions. She feels that the reason that she is NOT getting the big bucks is because someone else is...

She of course decries the loss of rights and fails to list even one right which she feels she lost and further laments fiscal policy which she then rails on about in the next breath which is even more ruinous than that which she laments.


As long as the US continues to allow these idiots to vote, it dooms itself to inevitable civil war.

 

[garyd]

Anyway,

A conservative believes that:

governments are at best a necessary evil

governments should be of by and for the people rather than of by and for the bureaucrats as ours has become.

governments by their very nature attempt to limit the rights of those subject to them because free people tend to be an unruly lot and a pain in the ass to govern.

only through due process of law does any human being have the right to circumscribe the rights of any other human being whether they have at this point in time dropped out the chute or not.

 

[editec]

Anyway,

A conservative believes that:

governments are at best a necessary evil

governments should be of by and for the people rather than of by and for the bureaucrats as ours has become.

governments by their very nature attempt to limit the rights of those subject to them because free people tend to be an unruly lot and a pain in the ass to govern.

only through due process of law does any human being have the right to circumscribe the rights of any other human being whether they have at this point in time dropped out the chute or not.

I believe those things, too.

As I often attempt to make clear, the difference between real liberals and real conservatives is generally in how we come down on keeping government in check while still having a viable society.

No real liberal I know wants a totalitarian government, and no conservative I know wants one either.

And since every government tends to drift toward more and more control, the problem is always which laws and which policies can prevent intrustion of our rights as individuals while still protecting our freedom from the governments and from those with enormous power.

We're never get it exactly right because even if we did, conditions would change such that we'd need to rethink our solutions.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

I believe those things, too.

As I often attempt to make clear, the difference between real liberals and real conservatives is generally in how we come down on keeping government in check while still having a viable society.

'real liberals' ARE Conservatives...

Those that 'call' themselves 'liberals' (such as yourself) are leftists... And they are leftists because they lack the cognitive acuity to be anything else. The notion that liberals do not 'want' a totalitarian gov't is irrelevant, they don't want a bleeding asshole either, yet they are prone to promote activity (which is a policy of sorts) which lends to the likelihood of a bleeding asshole... Same with the HIV, war poverty and every other notion which trickles down from their resin soaked grey matter; their behavior nearly always promotes the exact opposite of that which they SAY they stand for... My problem with leftists isn't that they exist, it is that they vote; the simple fact is the idealogical left exists for no other reason than to give the stupid a political voice and sadly we've hit rock bottom and the inmates are now running the asylum... And nothing good can come from that.

 

[amrchaos]

After reading Skull Pilots post, I have come to realize.

Conservatives are screwed up in the head!!! They do not believe in abstractions then list several points that have concepts with abstract definitions and strange relationships.

The funniest contradiction from Skull's preamble is not the use of "moral law, the need belief of "making our country as an example to the world" etc...the one that made me fall out of my seat is that property and freedom are inseperable.

I guess those survivalists out there in the wilderness better watch it.. The omnipotent absent government is constantly surpressing them!! What a hooot..

Let me guess. Without property, the government owns you because you are governmental property??

How about that Native American tribes, the ones that did not appreciate property, operated under oppressive regimes??

OH PLEASE STOP IT!!

The only relationship between Freedom and Property is a right wing nutjob trying to create a meme to help protect his property from taxation.

You do not need property to be free. And Freedom is not the requirement to own property.

Sometimes, owning property can restrict freedom. Such as keeping it clear of wildlife and using funds to build and maintain a gate to keep trespassers out.


Freedom versus ownership. That is funny thing to consider.

 

[chrismac]

I could say you shouldn't worry about being a conservative. It's not just being a Republican. It's well-known that people become more conservative the older they get...so you might just need to wait around and live life and see how things work to define conservatism for yourself.

Really, I think just think you become jaded over time. You go through life and put up with enough bullshit, you become immune to it. The more post offices, DMVs, Wal-Mart's you come across, you realize who is running them and thus, who is running you. You just realize that you're better off not depending on big groups of people, because they're mostly retarded. You start to see how wasteful government is, how much people take advantage of your tax dollars with nothing being done, how you pay taxes and it seems like nothing ever changes or gets fixed.

 

[garyd]

AMR you haven't a clue.

1st tribal societies are highly intolerant of those not belonging to the tribe. And conformity is the greatest goal. They are more ridden with taboos than any European Society post 1500 or so. The taboos are just different than our own. Hence, often we do not recognize them. It is interesting and instructive to note that the name the tribe calls itself in English usually translates to something like the English human beings with the obvious implication that if you aren't of the tribe you aren't a human being and tribal rules do not safe guard you and you therefore are fair game for any skulduggery that we would work on you.

So yes those societies are rather totalitarian and oppressive in their outlook especially if one happens to be female.

2nd you operate under the peculiar delusion that George W. Bush is a conservative. The only notably conservative thing Bush did during his administration was cut taxes.

3rd if one possesses not economic freedom one is not free. the higher and more progressive the tax rate the more freedom is circumscribed.