What Has Jesus Christ Done to You?

[editec]

What Has Jesus Christ Done to You?

What has Mohomed, or Moses or the Buddha done to you?

All those questions make about as much sense as this thread's query...i.e., none!

 

[CMike]

The Gospels are plain that Roman leaders, particularly Pilate, authorized and carried out the actual crucifixion. They(the Jewish leaders) had the responsibility of preventing innocent people from being hurt, and yet they knowingly caused an innocent man to be tortured and killed. They must share the blame. Both religion and state were involved.

If you think that jesus did the martyr thing then you wouldn't be blaming jews for what the romans did.

Jesus would have just killed himself.

Jesus was not a martyr, he is our savior. I'm not blaming the jew, i'm just stating they play a major part in it. It was written long ago that Jesus would be hated by his own people, and given over to slaughter.

Jesus based on judaism and the Torah was a villian.

The core of judaism is that there is only one G-D. That there is no other G-D in any form. That you should not put your faith in any man, you should only put your faith in G-D.

That jesus claimed that he was the son of G-D, that people must go through him to reach G-D, is a great affront to G-D. Based on the Torah there is no difference between worshipping a golden calf and worshipping G-D.

The only Saviour jews have is G-D. How do we know this? Because has said so repeatedly.

Hear O Israel, the L-rd is our G-D, the L-ord is ONE (Deut)
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God. ...so that from the rising of the Sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:5-6)

...I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah, 46:9)

... so that all the peoples of the Earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. (1 Kings, 8:60)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)

... O Lord; no deeds can compare with Yours. All the nations You have made will come and worship before You, O Lord; they will bring glory to Your name. For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:8-10)

O Lord ...You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the Earth. You have made heaven and Earth. (Isaiah, 37:16)

... all kingdoms on Earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God. (Isaiah, 37:20)

This is what the Lord says—your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the Earth by Myself. (Isaiah, 44:24)

Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides You, who acts on behalf of those who wait for Him. (Isaiah, 64:4)

For this is what the Lord says—He Who created the heavens, He is God; He Who fashioned and made the Earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—He says: "I am the Lord, and there is no other." (Isaiah, 45:18)

...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

See now that I Myself am He! There is no god besides Me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal... (Deuteronomy, 32:39)

...you may know there is no one like the Lord our God. (Exodus, 8:10)

O Lord... there is no god like You in heaven above or on Earth below... (1 Kings, 8:23; 2 Chronicles, 6:14)

Then Asa called to the Lord his God and said, "Lord, there is no one like You to help the powerless against the mighty..."(2 Chronicles, 14:11)

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)

There is no one like You, O Lord, and there is no god but You, as we have heard with our own ears. (1 Chronicles, 17:20; 2 Samuel, 7:22)

There is no one holy like the Lord; there is no one besides You; there is no strength like our God. (1 Samuel, 2:2)

His wisdom is profound, His power is vast. Who has resisted Him and come out unscathed. (Job, 9:4)

For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:10)

Praise Him for His acts of power; praise Him for His surpassing greatness. (Psalms, 150:2)

You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the Earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship You. (Nehemiah, 9:6)

They will say of Me, "In the Lord alone are righteousness and strength."... (Isaiah, 45:24)

You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides Him there is no other. (Deuteronomy, 4:35)

... Is there any god besides Me? No, there is no other strong one; I know not one. (Isaiah, 44:8)

This is what the Lord says—I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no god. (Isaiah, 44:6)

Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord—with the first of them and with the last—I am He." (Isaiah, 41:4)

O Lord, are You not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One… (Habakkuk 1:12)

I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere Him. (Ecclesiastes, 3:14)

Before the mountains were born or You brought forth the Earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting You are God. (Psalms, 90:2)

Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever…(Psalms, 45:6)

For this is what the high and lofty One says—He Who lives forever, Whose name is holy...(Isaiah, 57:15)

and said: "Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are His." (Daniel, 2:20)

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. (Ecclesiastes, 3:11)

…For He is the living God and He endures forever… His dominion will never end. (Daniel, 6:26)

Praise be to the Lord … from everlasting to everlasting… (1 Chronicles, 16:36)

But You, O Lord, are exalted forever. (Psalms, 92:8)

The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever. (Isaiah, 40:8)

 

[uscitizen]

I am sure I would like to hang out with jesus.

Now the religion that has been built on his name is an entirely different matter.
That SUCKS a green weenie.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Jesus was not a martyr, he is our savior. I'm not blaming the jew, i'm just stating they play a major part in it. It was written long ago that Jesus would be hated by his own people, and given over to slaughter.

1. You are free to believe as you wish. Zai gezundt, as they say in Yiddish.

Oh, that's mighty white of ya... Thanks...

2. Jews do not recognize the new testament as divine... nor do they recognize Jeshua ben Yosef as the messiah. He did not fit the prophesies. The things that were supposed to happen before the coming of th messiah didn't happen and the things that were supposed to happen after the coming of the messiah HAVEN'T happened.

Well that's all for interpretation, prophesies tend to be sorta vague... suffice it to say that others disagree; but you are free to believe as you wish.

3. He was a rabbi... and a good one. A lot of the things he said were womderful and I have nothing but respect for them. It's the distortions of people who THINK they're following the words while, instead, following 'organized religion'who are the problem.

Yes... much like the followers of the words of the Humanists Robespierre and company, who spawned Marx and Ingles and the endless trail of the Anti-Religous, Humanist faithful... cloaked in every conceivable deceit.

Of course, like San Hedrin they were not good people and there's no potential respect to be found in any of their words; the organized followers of which have brought the world nothing but death and destruction; mayhem; chaos, calamity and catastrophe; which are the problem...

4. He was murdered by the Romans because the threatened the political hierarchy of the day. Was he turned over to them by the San Hedrin? Probably. And because of the same reason.

Not probably... precisely... and indeed it was for the same reason.

5. I take zero 'responsibility' for it... why would I? I don't take responsibility for any of the probably thousands of people the Romans killed via crucifixion any more than I take personal responsibility for WWI or WWII.

Well that's interesting; as you're a chronic advocate of the very ideologies which delivered WW1 and 2... but like a faithful Leftists... you reject the bearing of ANY responsibility for the results of those things for which you advocate. Which is of course precisely how WW1 lead to WW2 and how, inevitably; the world is barreling towards WW3.

And kindly stop assuming anyone else believes what you do. Jews do not believe the messiah is G-d. Jews believe the Messiah is a King who will bring 1,000 years of peace. And we don't believe Jesus was Messiah in any event. And you can't turn away from something you don't believe is legitimate.

The member doesn't state that they believe 'everyone believes as they do'... such isn't even implied... they are stating their belief and you are trying to discredit that belief through a fallacious appeal to popularity; which you've wrapped in the rather flaccid appeal to authority...

Again, no offense.... you are free to believe as you wish. To us, believing in Jesus as Messiah is no different from believing in Mohammed or Buddha.

ROFLMNAO...

Oh now that IS precious... The thing about such beliefs is that it's SO common for your stripe to believe in the aforementioned evil... detaching yourselves of the predictable catastrophe which is only certain to follow such... and which has delivered unto Israel such collosal and continual tragedy.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

If you think that jesus did the martyr thing then you wouldn't be blaming jews for what the romans did.

Jesus would have just killed himself.

Jesus was not a martyr, he is our savior. I'm not blaming the jew, i'm just stating they play a major part in it. It was written long ago that Jesus would be hated by his own people, and given over to slaughter.

Jesus based on judaism and the Torah was a villian.

Well that would square fairly well with the scriptures... and with the predictions of Christ himself.

The core of judaism is that there is only one G-D. That there is no other G-D in any form. That you should not put your faith in any man, you should only put your faith in G-D.

Which of course Christ in no way challenged, despite this little rant to the contrary. As Christ WAS God... incarnate.

That jesus claimed that he was the son of G-D, that people must go through him to reach G-D, is a great affront to G-D. Based on the Torah there is no difference between worshipping a golden calf and worshipping G-D.

Well I suspect it's been a great affront to millions upon millions who have found on that great gettin' up mornin' that passing up the gift of salvation was a major lapse in judgment; which brought them directly to an unenviable status as they stood for their final accounting.

The only Saviour jews have is G-D. How do we know this? Because has said so repeatedly. ... The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever. (Isaiah, 40:8)

Amen...

 

[THE LIGHT]

Jesus was not a martyr, he is our savior. I'm not blaming the jew, i'm just stating they play a major part in it. It was written long ago that Jesus would be hated by his own people, and given over to slaughter.

1. You are free to believe as you wish. Zai gezundt, as they say in Yiddish.

2. Jews do not recognize the new testament as divine... nor do they recognize Jeshua ben Yosef as the messiah. He did not fit the prophesies. The things that were supposed to happen before the coming of th messiah didn't happen and the things that were supposed to happen after the coming of the messiah HAVEN'T happened.

Could you tell us what the things were that were suppose to happen but did not?

3. He was a rabbi... and a good one. A lot of the things he said were womderful and I have nothing but respect for them. It's the distortions of people who THINK they're following the words while, instead, following 'organized religion'who are the problem.

He was either God as he claimed, or he was a lunatic, or he was a liar. He could not be both a good rabbi and a liar. Let us not forget, that the Jews sought to stone Jesus for calling himself one with God.

4. He was murdered by the Romans because the threatened the political hierarchy of the day. Was he turned over to them by the San Hedrin? Probably. And because of the same reason.

And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
-John 19:12

Pilate had no interest in killing Jesus. Jesus was no threat to the Roman empire in a fleshly sense.

 

[CMike]

3. He was a rabbi... and a good one. A lot of the things he said were womderful and I have nothing but respect for them. It's the distortions of people who THINK they're following the words while, instead, following 'organized religion'who are the problem.

4. He was murdered by the Romans because the threatened the political hierarchy of the day. Was he turned over to them by the San Hedrin? Probably. And because of the same reason.

Jillian I disagree. He was not a rabbi. And I don't have respect for him.

He falsely claimed he was a divine being and the messiah. That is one of the greatest sins you can commit before G-D.

Also the jewish court was disbanded at that time.

Devarim / Deuteronomy

13:1 ‘If a prophet or a dreamer
of dreams arises among you
and gives you a sign or a
wonder,

13:2 and the sign or
the wonder comes true,
concerning which he spoke to
you, saying, 'Let us go after
other gods (whom you have
not known) and let us serve
them,'

13:3 you shall not listen
to the words of that prophet or
that dreamer of dreams; for the
Lord your God is testing you to
find out if you love the Lord
your God with all your heart
and with all your soul.

13:4
‘You shall follow the Lord
your God and fear Him; and
you shall keep His
commandments, listen to His
voice, serve Him, and cling to
Him.

13:5 ‘But that prophet or
that dreamer of dreams shall be
put to death, because he has
counseled rebellion against the
Lord your God who brought
you from the land of Egypt and
redeemed you from the house
of slavery, to seduce you from
the way in which the Lord your
God commanded you to walk.
So you shall purge the evil
from among you.

13:6 ‘If your
brother, your mother's son, or
your son or daughter, or the
wife you cherish, or your
friend who is as your own soul,
entice you secretly, saying, 'Let
us go and serve other gods'
(whom neither you nor your
fathers have known,

13:7 of the
gods of the peoples who are
around you, near you or far
from you, from one end of the
earth to the other end),

13:8
you shall not yield to him or
listen to him; and your eye
shall not pity him, nor shall
you spare or conceal him.

13:9
‘But you shall surely kill him;
your hand shall be first against
him to put him to death, and
afterwards the hand of all the
people.

13:10 ‘So you shall
stone him to death because he
has sought to seduce you from
the Lord your God who
brought you out from the land
of Egypt, out of the house of
slavery.

13:11 ‘Then all Israel
will hear and be afraid, and
will never again do such a
wicked thing am

 

[CMike]

Jesus was not a martyr, he is our savior. I'm not blaming the jew, i'm just stating they play a major part in it. It was written long ago that Jesus would be hated by his own people, and given over to slaughter.

1. You are free to believe as you wish. Zai gezundt, as they say in Yiddish.

2. Jews do not recognize the new testament as divine... nor do they recognize Jeshua ben Yosef as the messiah. He did not fit the prophesies. The things that were supposed to happen before the coming of th messiah didn't happen and the things that were supposed to happen after the coming of the messiah HAVEN'T happened.

Could you tell us what the things were that were suppose to happen but did not?

I'll field that question.

These are the messianic prophesies.

Michah 4:3

3. And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore. (world peace)

Ezekiel 37

21. And say to them, So says the Lord God: Behold I will take the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side, and I will bring them to their land. כא. (All jews will come to Israel)
22. And I will make them into one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be to them all as a king; and they shall no longer be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore. כב. (One recognized king)
23. And they shall no longer defile themselves with their idols, with their detestable things, or with all their transgressions, and I will save them from all their habitations in which they have sinned, and I will purify them, and they shall be to Me as a people, and I will be to them as a God. כג. (All nations will worship one G-D)
24. And My servant David shall be king over them, and one shepherd shall be for them all, and they shall walk in My ordinances and observe My statutes and perform them. כד. (A descendent of David)
25. And they shall dwell on the land that I have given to My servant, to Jacob, wherein your forefathers lived; and they shall dwell upon it, they and their children and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. כה. (All jews will remain in Israel)
26. And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever. כו. (the temple in jerusalem and will be rebuilt and stand forever)
27. And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people. כז.
28. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever." (Once again the temple in jerusalem will stand forever)

Guess how many of these jesus fulfilled?? Zero. When the messiah comes all will be fulfilled. That's how we jews will know it's the messiah.

And 1st coming and 2nd coming is all a christian creation. It has nothing to do with the Torah.

3. He was a rabbi... and a good one. A lot of the things he said were womderful and I have nothing but respect for them. It's the distortions of people who THINK they're following the words while, instead, following 'organized religion'who are the problem.

He was either God as he claimed, or he was a lunatic, or he was a liar. He could not be both a good rabbi and a liar. Let us not forget, that the Jews sought to stone Jesus for calling himself one with God.

He was an evil person based on the Torah.

That jews would try to stone him is another NT creation and fiction.

The jewish court was disbanded, and there was no power to execute anyone. Jews don't act as mobs.

4. He was murdered by the Romans because the threatened the political hierarchy of the day. Was he turned over to them by the San Hedrin? Probably. And because of the same reason.

And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
-John 19:12

Pilate had no interest in killing Jesus. Jesus was no threat to the Roman empire in a fleshly sense.

Apparently the romans wanted to kill him because they did. The romans were very harsh occupiers. They could care less what the jews' opinion was on anything.

It's not like they telephoned the local rabbi office if they wanted to make a decision.

It's another NT made up story.

There is a lot of hatred in the NT directed toward jews.

 

[THE LIGHT]

3. He was a rabbi... and a good one. A lot of the things he said were womderful and I have nothing but respect for them. It's the distortions of people who THINK they're following the words while, instead, following 'organized religion'who are the problem.

4. He was murdered by the Romans because the threatened the political hierarchy of the day. Was he turned over to them by the San Hedrin? Probably. And because of the same reason./QUOTE]

Jillian I disagree. He was not a rabbi. And I don't have respect for him.

He falsely claimed he was a divine being and the messiah. That is one of the greatest sins you can commit before G-D.

Also the jewish court was disbanded at that time.

Devarim / Deuteronomy

13:1 ‘If a prophet or a dreamer
of dreams arises among you
and gives you a sign or a
wonder,

13:2 and the sign or
the wonder comes true,
concerning which he spoke to
you, saying, 'Let us go after
other gods (whom you have
not known) and let us serve
them,'

13:3 you shall not listen
to the words of that prophet or
that dreamer of dreams; for the
Lord your God is testing you to
find out if you love the Lord
your God with all your heart
and with all your soul.

13:4
‘You shall follow the Lord
your God and fear Him; and
you shall keep His
commandments, listen to His
voice, serve Him, and cling to
Him.

13:5 ‘But that prophet or
that dreamer of dreams shall be
put to death, because he has
counseled rebellion against the
Lord your God who brought
you from the land of Egypt and
redeemed you from the house
of slavery, to seduce you from
the way in which the Lord your
God commanded you to walk.
So you shall purge the evil
from among you.

13:6 ‘If your
brother, your mother's son, or
your son or daughter, or the
wife you cherish, or your
friend who is as your own soul,
entice you secretly, saying, 'Let
us go and serve other gods'
(whom neither you nor your
fathers have known,

13:7 of the
gods of the peoples who are
around you, near you or far
from you, from one end of the
earth to the other end),

13:8
you shall not yield to him or
listen to him; and your eye
shall not pity him, nor shall
you spare or conceal him.

13:9
‘But you shall surely kill him;
your hand shall be first against
him to put him to death, and
afterwards the hand of all the
people.

13:10 ‘So you shall
stone him to death because he
has sought to seduce you from
the Lord your God who
brought you out from the land
of Egypt, out of the house of
slavery.

13:11 ‘Then all Israel
will hear and be afraid, and
will never again do such a
wicked thing am

I commend you for realizing that Yashua could not be both a good man and a liar at the same time. We just differ on which one he was.

 

[CMike]

I had sort of an irritating experience a few days ago.

This "friend" who is christian called me.

She told me that she wanted to experience what a passover seder was, and that this person was jewish and he explains everything well.

As she was telling me this, she said that this "person" had a ministry.

That made me suspicious. jews don't have ministries.

I asked if this was jews for jesus? And she said yes.

I told her that I respectfully decline. And she asked why, and I told her.

Look how insulting this is. Jews have been told by G-D all over the Torah not to worship in any way anyone but him. G-D told the jews to trust no one but him.

Just the name "jews for jesus" is insulting. Jews can only be for G-D.

In fact, I told her that in the entire Passover story, when there is the traditional reading, Moses, who had a central role in the story, is mentioned only once, and as a "humble sevant".

The reason for that is to make it clear that it was G-D who did all the miracles. That Moses was only a servant, and that he had not actual power.

I also really didn't appreciate this person trying to deceive me and trick me into going to this christian event.

I have utter disgust for the jews for jesus who pervert judaism.

In fact, I then called back and left a message saying that if she was interested in seeing a jewish passover I would invite her over, to have the seder, the passover dinner with us.

She declined. Twat.

 

[Anguille]

Not the so called christian, but Jesus Christ. Why would you hate someone who did nothing but love you. He loved you so much that he gave his life that you might live. So what has Jesus Christ done to you?

I wish Jesus Christ would get it through his head that I don't love him in return. I never will. He needs to let go and get a life.

 

[CMike]

3. He was a rabbi... and a good one. A lot of the things he said were womderful and I have nothing but respect for them. It's the distortions of people who THINK they're following the words while, instead, following 'organized religion'who are the problem.

4. He was murdered by the Romans because the threatened the political hierarchy of the day. Was he turned over to them by the San Hedrin? Probably. And because of the same reason./QUOTE]

Jillian I disagree. He was not a rabbi. And I don't have respect for him.

He falsely claimed he was a divine being and the messiah. That is one of the greatest sins you can commit before G-D.

Also the jewish court was disbanded at that time.

Devarim / Deuteronomy

13:1 ‘If a prophet or a dreamer
of dreams arises among you
and gives you a sign or a
wonder,

13:2 and the sign or
the wonder comes true,
concerning which he spoke to
you, saying, 'Let us go after
other gods (whom you have
not known) and let us serve
them,'

13:3 you shall not listen
to the words of that prophet or
that dreamer of dreams; for the
Lord your God is testing you to
find out if you love the Lord
your God with all your heart
and with all your soul.

13:4
‘You shall follow the Lord
your God and fear Him; and
you shall keep His
commandments, listen to His
voice, serve Him, and cling to
Him.

13:5 ‘But that prophet or
that dreamer of dreams shall be
put to death, because he has
counseled rebellion against the
Lord your God who brought
you from the land of Egypt and
redeemed you from the house
of slavery, to seduce you from
the way in which the Lord your
God commanded you to walk.
So you shall purge the evil
from among you.

13:6 ‘If your
brother, your mother's son, or
your son or daughter, or the
wife you cherish, or your
friend who is as your own soul,
entice you secretly, saying, 'Let
us go and serve other gods'
(whom neither you nor your
fathers have known,

13:7 of the
gods of the peoples who are
around you, near you or far
from you, from one end of the
earth to the other end),

13:8
you shall not yield to him or
listen to him; and your eye
shall not pity him, nor shall
you spare or conceal him.

13:9
‘But you shall surely kill him;
your hand shall be first against
him to put him to death, and
afterwards the hand of all the
people.

13:10 ‘So you shall
stone him to death because he
has sought to seduce you from
the Lord your God who
brought you out from the land
of Egypt, out of the house of
slavery.

13:11 ‘Then all Israel
will hear and be afraid, and
will never again do such a
wicked thing am

I commend you for realizing that Yashua could not be both a good man and a liar at the same time. We just differ on which one he was.

Yashua is Joshua. He was indeed a good man.

I thought jesus was your divine being?

 

[CMike]

The Gospels are plain that Roman leaders, particularly Pilate, authorized and carried out the actual crucifixion. They(the Jewish leaders) had the responsibility of preventing innocent people from being hurt, and yet they knowingly caused an innocent man to be tortured and killed. They must share the blame. Both religion and state were involved.

If you think that jesus did the martyr thing then you wouldn't be blaming jews for what the romans did.

Jesus would have just killed himself.

Jesus was not a martyr, he is our savior. I'm not blaming the jew, i'm just stating they play a major part in it. It was written long ago that Jesus would be hated by his own people, and given over to slaughter.

There is only one saviour and it's not jesus.

Isaiah 43:

10. "You are My witnesses," says the Lord, "and My servant whom I chose," in order that you know and believe Me, and understand that I am He; before Me no god was formed and after Me none shall be. l י.


11. I, I am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.

Look believe whatever you want.

My only beef is don't claim that this is in any way associated with judaism or the Torah, because you would be wrong.

 

[CMike]

Jesus was not a martyr, he is our savior. I'm not blaming the jew, i'm just stating they play a major part in it. It was written long ago that Jesus would be hated by his own people, and given over to slaughter.

Jesus based on judaism and the Torah was a villian.

Well that would square fairly well with the scriptures... and with the predictions of Christ himself.

Guessing that if he pretended to be a divine being, and attacked the core of the Torah and G-D, he wouldn't exactly be accepted by jews, isn't really a great prediction.

Which of course Christ in no way challenged, despite this little rant to the contrary. As Christ WAS God... incarnate.

That's rather silly.

If he didn't claim he was a separate entity from the one G-D, he wouldn't have said that:

• He is the son of god
• That you can only reach god through him
• That you have to pray in his name
• He wouldn't have supposedly prayed to G-D, if he was god.

These are all things he claimed to do.

That jesus claimed that he was the son of G-D, that people must go through him to reach G-D, is a great affront to G-D. Based on the Torah there is no difference between worshipping a golden calf and worshipping G-D.

Well I suspect it's been a great affront to millions upon millions who have found on that great gettin' up mornin' that passing up the gift of salvation was a major lapse in judgment; which brought them directly to an unenviable status as they stood for their final accounting.

Let people believe whatever they want.

As I said what I don't like are the perversions of the Torah and judaism to validate those beliefs.

Also, from Torah point of view, christianity, by definition centers on jesus.

The only power in judaism is G-D.

 

[uscitizen]

Christianity is an offshoot sect of Judasim.

 

[THE LIGHT]

I'll field that question.

These are the messianic prophesies.

Michah 4:3

3. And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore. (world peace)

Ezekiel 37

21. And say to them, So says the Lord God: Behold I will take the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side, and I will bring them to their land. כא. (All jews will come to Israel)
22. And I will make them into one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be to them all as a king; and they shall no longer be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore. כב. (One recognized king)
23. And they shall no longer defile themselves with their idols, with their detestable things, or with all their transgressions, and I will save them from all their habitations in which they have sinned, and I will purify them, and they shall be to Me as a people, and I will be to them as a God. כג. (All nations will worship one G-D)
24. And My servant David shall be king over them, and one shepherd shall be for them all, and they shall walk in My ordinances and observe My statutes and perform them. כד. (A descendent of David)
25. And they shall dwell on the land that I have given to My servant, to Jacob, wherein your forefathers lived; and they shall dwell upon it, they and their children and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. כה. (All jews will remain in Israel)
26. And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever. כו. (the temple in jerusalem and will be rebuilt and stand forever)
27. And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people. כז.
28. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever." (Once again the temple in jerusalem will stand forever)

Guess how many of these jesus fulfilled?? Zero. When the messiah comes all will be fulfilled. That's how we jews will know it's the messiah.

Yep, that he will. Only, there are 2 parts, a first and second coming. You have skipped all of the prophesies related to his first coming. Why do you think Yashua stopped at the comma half way through Isaiah 61? The second half of Isaiah 61:2 will be fulfilled when he comes again. There would be a problem if those prophesies said "when" they would be fulfilled and Yashua didn't fulfill them, however, it nowhere states that there is only one coming of the Lord. On the other hand, if Yashua is to come as the sacrificial lamb and as the king all at the same time, then you are in big trouble. And if the Messiah was suppose to come around 0 A.D. as prophesied in Daniel 9:25 and he didn't then that would be a big problem too. Fortunately he did.

You and I both await the same Messiah. The majority of the Jewish people just happened to miss him the first time around. That's all. No biggy really.

And 1st coming and 2nd coming is all a christian creation. It has nothing to do with the Torah.

Actually it has more to do with it than just a 2nd coming.

The jewish court was disbanded, and there was no power to execute anyone. Jews don't act as mobs.

You are right, Jews generally don't act as mobs. However, just as there are good gentiles and bad gentiles, there are good Jews and bad Jews.

Apparently the romans wanted to kill him because they did. The romans were very harsh occupiers. They could care less what the jews' opinion was on anything.

It's not like they telephoned the local rabbi office if they wanted to make a decision.

It's another NT made up story.

There is a lot of hatred in the NT directed toward jews.

Might I remind you that the NT was written by Jews, about a Jew (Yashua) and for Jews (and gentiles). So you are accusing those (Jews) writing it as being hateful while saying there is no such thing. Again, there are good Jews and bad Jews. We just happen to disagree on which is which.

Just because G-d made a covenant with Abraham and hence the Jewish people, doesn't make every Jew a good person nor did the law of Moses. The covenant set them apart from all of the other pantheistic pegans establishing the jewel of G-d's eye, and the law of Moses showed them the need for a savior.

There is no hatred in the NT towards the Jewish people, there is only portions describing G-d's anger towards the Jewish people for rejecting Him just as you will find in the OT as well. As I stated before, the NT was written by Jews about Jews and for Jews. The only hatred that has come into it is by ignorant prideful Christians. IMO, Christians owe the Jewish people an appology for that.

 

[CMike]

Well that's all for interpretation, prophesies tend to be sorta vague... suffice it to say that others disagree; but you are free to believe as you wish.

Actually the prophesies are very specific.

When the messiah comes, there will be:

• World peace
• All the jews will be brought to Israel
• All the jews will stay in Israel
• All nations will worship one G-D
• The temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever

I already cited the passages.


It's my understanding that christians themselves are confused about the who jesus was to them?

I think they beleive he might have been"

god
son of god
the messiah
part of a trinity
god becoming man and turning into god again (not going to comment on that one)

Is that correct?

 

[CMike]

Christianity is an offshoot sect of Judasim.

No it's not, christianity has nothing to do with judaism.

 

[uscitizen]

Christianity is an offshoot sect of Judasim.

No it's not, christianity has nothing to do with judaism.

then why do we teach the jewish bible in Christianity?

 

[THE LIGHT]

I commend you for realizing that Yashua could not be both a good man and a liar at the same time. We just differ on which one he was.

Yashua is Joshua. He was indeed a good man.

I thought jesus was your divine being?

Is'nt jesus a common name for landscapers in the Southwest.

Funny you should bring up Joshua. Yashua ben Yosef happens to share striking parallels with Yashua ben Nun.