What Has Jesus Christ Done to You?

[PubliusInfinitum]

Just because Yashua has not fulfilled the prophesies that he hasn't fulfilled yet doesn't mean that he won't.

Yeah...it does, since he is dead.

BTW the messiah will be a mortal human being.

Yashua was a mortal human being that was raised from the dead. So, no it is not over. You will see him when he returns again. This time he will come as KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS.



So, he should have been right?

However, punishments can only be executed by the jewish court. The jewish court was disbanded, therefore it could not be carried out.

That is why they had to have the Romans do the deed.

Are you Bill Clinton?

Weren't you suppose to ask if I am Elijah?

ROFLMNAO...

 

[THE LIGHT]

Whoa there, yes, it is his belief...but just because it's a belief doesn't mean it isn't a fact as well.

Just saying.

that's the point...might be...might not.

as might the koran...as might any other belief system.

personally, i think they're different languages to speak with G-d and he's multi-lingual...

Yes, he is kinda like the first man Adam in that way... He speaks every language in the world. Only, there are a few more languages now then there were when Adam was around.

When it comes to "ways" to God, there is only one though.

His name is Jesus, Yashua, or Jezooos, etc. (whatever his name happens to translate into your language of preference) but he is the ONLY way. It is only by HIS blood and his righteousness that we are made pure. And unless we are pure, we are not worthy of inheriting eternal life with the Father.

 

[THE LIGHT]

The jewish court was disbanded, and there was no power to execute anyone. Jews don't act as mobs.

It says in your own Torah:

Moses cried out to the Lord, saying, What shall I do for this people? Just a little longer and they will stone me! -Exodus 17:4

 

[CMike]

I think it was the jews who got the roman to do the dirty deed.

cause occupiers always listen to the people they occupy, right?

Rome was not exactly a small empire during the time of Christ. It's borders extended from The Brittish Channel to the North down to the deserts of Africa and from the Euphrates to the Atlantic. So, the last thing the romans wanted was to deal with Jewish conflicts or the possability of a Jewish revolt.

The romans didn't care. Shortly after jesus' execution the romans destroyed the 2nd temple in jerusalem. The temple was far far far more important than jesus ever was.

Also, the actual messianic prophesy in Ezekiel 37 is when the messiah comes he will rebuild the temple and it will stand forever. Instead the opposite happened.

The jews has no political power at that time, and the romans could care less about the jews' opinion on anything.

Basically the choices were do what the romans tell them or be crucified.

 

[CMike]

The jewish court was disbanded, and there was no power to execute anyone. Jews don't act as mobs.

It says in your own Torah:

Moses cried out to the Lord, saying, What shall I do for this people? Just a little longer and they will stone me! -Exodus 17:4

Did they stone him?

Also:

1) The jews had no water at that time and were very thirsty. Jesus was not all that important to the jews.

2) That was before the jews got the Torah, and before jewish courts were created

3) If the jews did stone jesus he would have been dead.

 

[CMike]

Once again believe whatever you want. My point is that jesus and christianity has nothing to do with judaism.

The arguements are rather silly

1) jesus is the son of god. That is silly because as I quoted in at least 30 passages, the actual G-D said explicitly that there is only him, and to not put your trust or worship in any being/person but him.

To do so is a grave sin.

The only saviour in judaism is G-D

2) jesus was the messiah. That is silly too. jesus didn't fulfill any of the messianic prophesies. No where in the text which I quoted, Michah 4:3 and Ezekiel 37, does it divide it up into different parts. That is a christian creation.

If he was the messiah he would have fulfilled all the messianic prophesies.

Also no jewish messiah would ever claim to be divine, and tell jews that they need him to worship G-D. That would be a great affront to G-D and is completely anti-God, anti-jewish, and anti-Torah.

3) jesus is god. That is silly too. jesus himself said that he prayed to god. Did he pray to himself? Also, he said that to reach god you have to through him.

jesus acknowledged that he was a separate entity from G-D.

 

[CMike]

Just because Yashua has not fulfilled the prophesies that he hasn't fulfilled yet doesn't mean that he won't.

Yeah...it does, since he is dead.

BTW the messiah will be a mortal human being.

Yashua was a mortal human being that was raised from the dead. So, no it is not over. You will see him when he returns again. This time he will come as KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS

I won't see him because he is dead and will remain dead. Also there is only one Lord, and that Lord is the one and only Lord. That Lord is G-D.
.

However, punishments can only be executed by the jewish court. The jewish court was disbanded, therefore it could not be carried out.

That is why they had to have the Romans do the deed.

Nope because

1) Romans didn't care what jews wanted and the jews had no power whatsoever to get the romans to do anything

2) That would be against jewish law

 

[Ravi]

What Has Jesus Christ Done to You?

Nothing.

That's the point.

 

[THE LIGHT]

The jewish court was disbanded, and there was no power to execute anyone. Jews don't act as mobs.

It says in your own Torah:

Moses cried out to the Lord, saying, What shall I do for this people? Just a little longer and they will stone me! -Exodus 17:4

Did they stone him?

Did they stone Jesus? no, but I am sure what stopped them from stoning Moshe was not that they didn't have a court system but that they got what they wanted.

1) The jews had no water at that time and were very thirsty. Jesus was not all that important to the jews.

That ought to preach

2) That was before the jews got the Torah, and before jewish courts were created

Exactly my point!

3) If the jews did stone jesus he would have been dead.

Um ... yeah.

 

[CMike]

Wanting to stone someone and actually stoning someone are two different things.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

What Has Jesus Christ Done to You?

Nothing.

That's the point.

Actually Christ has provided to you, the means to escape the certainty of your own eternal torment; that you reject the grace; that you refuse to hear the good news and see what he did for you... has no bearing on the selflessness inherent in Jesus' incomprehensible sacrifice intrinsic in his gift to you; and your refusal to accept it, thus maintain the delusion that you've some other means to escape the responsibility you otherwise bear; is irrelevant; thus refuting, your point.

 

[CMike]

Us jews already have a way to get repentance for sins.

 

[Ravi]

What Has Jesus Christ Done to You?

Nothing.

That's the point.

Actually Christ has provided to you, the means to escape the certainty of your own eternal torment; that you reject the grace; that you refuse to hear the good news and see what he did for you... has no bearing on the selflessness inherent in Jesus' incomprehensible sacrifice intrinsic in his gift to you; and your refusal to accept it, thus maintain the delusion that you've some other means to escape the responsibility you otherwise bear; is irrelevant; thus refuting, your point.

The last person qualified to speak for Jesus is you.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Us jews already have a way to get repentance for sins.

LOL...

So you Jews, can get repentance, can ya?

Oh that's fascinatin'... how does that work?

Is it anything like the stuff that gives ya self esteem?

'Cause, if it is... ya got real problems; and ya may want to take another look at God's grace... ya might want to listen for a change and hear of the good news.

It won't give ya repentance... but it'll help ya see the benefit of repenting... and actually bring you to fellowship with the Father...

 

[Paulie]

What Has Jesus Christ Done to You?

Nothing.

That's the point.

Actually Christ has provided to you, the means to escape the certainty of your own eternal torment; that you reject the grace; that you refuse to hear the good news and see what he did for you... has no bearing on the selflessness inherent in Jesus' incomprehensible sacrifice intrinsic in his gift to you; and your refusal to accept it, thus maintain the delusion that you've some other means to escape the responsibility you otherwise bear; is irrelevant; thus refuting, your point.

Stop frontin' pussy boy.

Jesus would never advocate the hatred you have for those who don't think like you.

 

[sparky]

What Has Jesus Christ Done to You?

He leadeth me to the USMB.....

 

[THE LIGHT]

Nothing.

That's the point.

Actually Christ has provided to you, the means to escape the certainty of your own eternal torment; that you reject the grace; that you refuse to hear the good news and see what he did for you... has no bearing on the selflessness inherent in Jesus' incomprehensible sacrifice intrinsic in his gift to you; and your refusal to accept it, thus maintain the delusion that you've some other means to escape the responsibility you otherwise bear; is irrelevant; thus refuting, your point.

The last person qualified to speak for Jesus is you.

Anyone who realizes that they are a sinner and accepts Jesus as their personal savior and makes Him LORD of their life is qualified to speak for Jesus. The matter is not who is making the point, but does the point they are making line up with God's devine Word. What PI was saying is a 100% correct expression of God's love and grace offered to those who will accept the gift.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Wanting to stone someone and actually stoning someone are two different things.

Absolutely!

Intent, however, is very important. If a robber enters a bank and threatens to shoot the banker if they do not hand over the money then there is a big difference in what makes him choose not to shoot the banker. Likely, the reason for not shooting them will not be "because there is a law against it" since he already broke a law attempting to steal money. The most logical reason is because the banker gave him what he demanded. This is the same thing we see in Exodus 17. So, yeah, you're right, there is a big difference between "to stone or not to stone" but don't forget that there is also a BIG difference between "not stoning because the court system hasn't been set up yet" and "not stoning because you got what you want."

 

[CMike]

Us jews already have a way to get repentance for sins.

LOL...

So you Jews, can get repentance, can ya?

Oh that's fascinatin'... how does that work?

Is it anything like the stuff that gives ya self esteem?

'Cause, if it is... ya got real problems; and ya may want to take another look at God's grace... ya might want to listen for a change and hear of the good news.

It won't give ya repentance... but it'll help ya see the benefit of repenting... and actually bring you to fellowship with the Father...

What is ironic is that one of the worst sins you can do is rely on jesus and not G-D.

...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)

In any case this is how jews get forgiveness.

Spiraling Towards Repentance - My Jewish Learning


Teshuvah [return] is the key concept in the rabbinic view of sin, repentance, and forgiveness. The tradition is not of one mind on the steps one must take to repent of one's sins. However, almost all agree that repentance requires five elements: recognition of one's sins as sins (hakarát ha-chét'), remorse (charatá), desisting from sin (azivát ha-chét'), restitution where possible (peira'ón), and confession (vidui).

"Recognition of one's sins as sins" is an act of one's intelligence and moral conscience. It involves knowing that certain actions are sinful, recognizing such actions in oneself as more than just lapses of praxis, and analyzing one's motives for sin as deeply as one can. For example, stealing from someone must be seen not only as a crime but also as a sin against another human and a violation of God's demands of us within the covenant. It also involves realizing that such acts are part of deeper patterns of relatedness and that they are motivated by some of the most profound and darkest elements in our being.

"Remorse" is a feeling. It is composed of feelings of regret, of failure to maintain one's moral standards. It may also encompass feelings of being lost or trapped, of anguish, and perhaps of despair at our own sinfulness, as well as a feeling of being alienated from God and from our own deepest spiritual roots, of having abandoned our own inner selves.

"Desisting from sin" is neither a moral-intellectual analysis nor a feeling; it is an action. It is a ceasing from sin, a desisting from the patterns of sinful action to which we have become addicted. Desisting from sin involves actually stopping the sinful action, consciously repressing thoughts and fantasies about the sinful activity, and making a firm commitment never to commit the sinful act again.

"Restitution" is the act of making good, as best one can, for any damage done. If one has stolen, one must return the object or pay compensation. If one has damaged another's reputation, one must attempt to correct the injury to the offended party.

"Confession" has two forms: ritual and personal. Ritual confession requires recitation of the liturgies of confession at their proper moments in the prayer life of the community. Personal confession requires individual confession before God as needed or inserting one's personal confession into the liturgy at designated moments. The more specific the personal confession, the better. One who follows these steps to teshuvah is called a "penitent" (chozér be-teshuvah).

The tradition is quite clear, however, that recognition of sin, remorse, restitution, and confession, if they are done without desisting from sin, do not constitute teshuvah. Without ceasing one's sinful activity, one has only arrived at the "preliminaries to teshuvah" (hirhuréi teshuvah). Actual desisting from sin is what counts.

Thus, if one desists from sinful action because one has been frightened into it, that is still teshuvah and the person is considered a penitent. For example, if a person ceases to gamble compulsively because someone threatens to beat him severely the next time he does it, such a person is considered a penitent. Or, if a person ceases to steal because he has been told he will be sent to jail the next time it happens, such a person is considered a penitent. Furthermore, if a person becomes convinced that he or she will be punished in the life-after-death and ceases sinful action on that account, this person too is considered a penitent, though this motivation for desisting is higher than the previous ones because it is a function of a larger religious worldview which considers the wrongdoing as actual sin.

Teshuvah which is rooted in fear of humans or God is called "repentance rooted in fear" (teshuvah mi-yir'á) and, while not the highest form of teshuvah, it is the core thereof. Reform of one's character through analysis of sin, remorse, restitution, and confession, when combined with the ceasing of sinful action, is called "repentance rooted in love" (teshuvah mei-ahavá). "Repentance rooted in love" is desirable but, without cessation of sin, reform of one's character is useless. Maimonides, the foremost halakhic (legal) and philosophic authority of rabbinic Judaism, lists desisting from sin as the very first step to teshuvah.

Rabbinic tradition teaches that all the steps to teshuvah are necessary. Their interrelationship is best described as a spiral which touches each of the five points, yet advances with each turn. Thus, one may begin at any point--with action, analysis, remorse, restitution, or confession.

 

[CMike]

Actually Christ has provided to you, the means to escape the certainty of your own eternal torment; that you reject the grace; that you refuse to hear the good news and see what he did for you... has no bearing on the selflessness inherent in Jesus' incomprehensible sacrifice intrinsic in his gift to you; and your refusal to accept it, thus maintain the delusion that you've some other means to escape the responsibility you otherwise bear; is irrelevant; thus refuting, your point.

The last person qualified to speak for Jesus is you.

Anyone who realizes that they are a sinner and accepts Jesus as their personal savior and makes Him LORD of their life is qualified to speak for Jesus. The matter is not who is making the point, but does the point they are making line up with God's devine Word. What PI was saying is a 100% correct expression of God's love and grace offered to those who will accept the gift.

And how do you reconcile with this with the fact, that G-D said in numerous passages to only rely on him?

You can not believe in the Torah and rely on jesus in any way. They are mutually exclusive.

If you don't believe in what G-D said in the Torah that is cool too.





Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)



Hear O Israel, the L-rd is our G-D, the L-ord is ONE (Deut)
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God. ...so that from the rising of the Sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:5-6)

...I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah, 46:9)

... so that all the peoples of the Earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. (1 Kings, 8:60)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)

... O Lord; no deeds can compare with Yours. All the nations You have made will come and worship before You, O Lord; they will bring glory to Your name. For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:8-10)

O Lord ...You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the Earth. You have made heaven and Earth. (Isaiah, 37:16)

... all kingdoms on Earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God. (Isaiah, 37:20)

This is what the Lord says—your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the Earth by Myself. (Isaiah, 44:24)

Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides You, who acts on behalf of those who wait for Him. (Isaiah, 64:4)

For this is what the Lord says—He Who created the heavens, He is God; He Who fashioned and made the Earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—He says: "I am the Lord, and there is no other." (Isaiah, 45:18)

...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

See now that I Myself am He! There is no god besides Me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal... (Deuteronomy, 32:39)

...you may know there is no one like the Lord our God. (Exodus, 8:10)

O Lord... there is no god like You in heaven above or on Earth below... (1 Kings, 8:23; 2 Chronicles, 6:14)

Then Asa called to the Lord his God and said, "Lord, there is no one like You to help the powerless against the mighty..."(2 Chronicles, 14:11)

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)

There is no one like You, O Lord, and there is no god but You, as we have heard with our own ears. (1 Chronicles, 17:20; 2 Samuel, 7:22)

There is no one holy like the Lord; there is no one besides You; there is no strength like our God. (1 Samuel, 2:2)

His wisdom is profound, His power is vast. Who has resisted Him and come out unscathed. (Job, 9:4)

For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:10)

Praise Him for His acts of power; praise Him for His surpassing greatness. (Psalms, 150:2)

You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the Earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship You. (Nehemiah, 9:6)

They will say of Me, "In the Lord alone are righteousness and strength."... (Isaiah, 45:24)

You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides Him there is no other. (Deuteronomy, 4:35)

... Is there any god besides Me? No, there is no other strong one; I know not one. (Isaiah, 44:8)

This is what the Lord says—I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no god. (Isaiah, 44:6)

Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord—with the first of them and with the last—I am He." (Isaiah, 41:4)

O Lord, are You not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One… (Habakkuk 1:12)

I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere Him. (Ecclesiastes, 3:14)

Before the mountains were born or You brought forth the Earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting You are God. (Psalms, 90:2)

Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever…(Psalms, 45:6)

For this is what the high and lofty One says—He Who lives forever, Whose name is holy...(Isaiah, 57:15)

and said: "Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are His." (Daniel, 2:20)

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. (Ecclesiastes, 3:11)

…For He is the living God and He endures forever… His dominion will never end. (Daniel, 6:26)

Praise be to the Lord … from everlasting to everlasting… (1 Chronicles, 16:36)

But You, O Lord, are exalted forever. (Psalms, 92:8)

The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever. (Isaiah, 40:8)