What Has Jesus Christ Done to You?

[CMike]

I'll field that question.

These are the messianic prophesies.

Michah 4:3

3. And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore. (world peace)

Ezekiel 37

21. And say to them, So says the Lord God: Behold I will take the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side, and I will bring them to their land. כא. (All jews will come to Israel)
22. And I will make them into one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be to them all as a king; and they shall no longer be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore. כב. (One recognized king)
23. And they shall no longer defile themselves with their idols, with their detestable things, or with all their transgressions, and I will save them from all their habitations in which they have sinned, and I will purify them, and they shall be to Me as a people, and I will be to them as a God. כג. (All nations will worship one G-D)
24. And My servant David shall be king over them, and one shepherd shall be for them all, and they shall walk in My ordinances and observe My statutes and perform them. כד. (A descendent of David)
25. And they shall dwell on the land that I have given to My servant, to Jacob, wherein your forefathers lived; and they shall dwell upon it, they and their children and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. כה. (All jews will remain in Israel)
26. And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever. כו. (the temple in jerusalem and will be rebuilt and stand forever)
27. And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people. כז.
28. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever." (Once again the temple in jerusalem will stand forever)

Guess how many of these jesus fulfilled?? Zero. When the messiah comes all will be fulfilled. That's how we jews will know it's the messiah.

Yep, that he will. Only, there are 2 parts, a first and second coming. You have skipped all of the prophesies related to his first coming. Why do you think Yashua stopped at the comma half way through Isaiah 61? The second half of Isaiah 61:2 will be fulfilled when he comes again. There would be a problem if those prophesies said "when" they would be fulfilled and Yashua didn't fulfill them, however, it nowhere states that there is only one coming of the Lord. On the other hand, if Yashua is to come as the sacrificial lamb and as the king all at the same time, then you are in big trouble. And if the Messiah was suppose to come around 0 A.D. as prophesied in Daniel 9:25 and he didn't then that would be a big problem too. Fortunately he did.

You and I both await the same Messiah. The majority of the Jewish people just happened to miss him the first time around. That's all. No biggy really.

Dividing up in parts is a christian creation, it has nothing to do with the Torah.

This is what I find annoying the perversion of the Torah. To jews it's a sacred text.

The Torah states what the prophesies will be when the messiah comes. In fact that is how jews will know it's the messiah. No where does it have it in different parts.

But I understand, that there is a clear and explicit description of what will happen when the messiah comes, and since jesus didn't fulfill any of them, christians must then create another part.


That within itself is a violation of the Torah and what G-D said.

From the Torah "Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it."

And 1st coming and 2nd coming is all a christian creation. It has nothing to do with the Torah.

Actually it has more to do with it than just a 2nd coming.

The jewish court was disbanded, and there was no power to execute anyone. Jews don't act as mobs.

You are right, Jews generally don't act as mobs. However, just as there are good gentiles and bad gentiles, there are good Jews and bad Jews.

The jews of the day knew the Torah and the laws and didn't act in mobs. It's more NT fiction.

Apparently the romans wanted to kill him because they did. The romans were very harsh occupiers. They could care less what the jews' opinion was on anything.

It's not like they telephoned the local rabbi office if they wanted to make a decision.

It's another NT made up story.

There is a lot of hatred in the NT directed toward jews.

Might I remind you that the NT was written by Jews, about a Jew (Yashua) and for Jews (and gentiles). So you are accusing those (Jews) writing it as being hateful while saying there is no such thing. Again, there are good Jews and bad Jews. We just happen to disagree on which is which.

Just because G-d made a covenant with Abraham and hence the Jewish people, doesn't make every Jew a good person nor did the law of Moses. The covenant set them apart from all of the other pantheistic pegans establishing the jewel of G-d's eye, and the law of Moses showed them the need for a savior.

There is no hatred in the NT towards the Jewish people, there is only portions describing G-d's anger towards the Jewish people for rejecting Him just as you will find in the OT as well. As I stated before, the NT was written by Jews about Jews and for Jews. The only hatred that has come into it is by ignorant prideful Christians. IMO, Christians owe the Jewish people an appology for that.

Rejecting G-D would be following jesus, since G-D told jews specifically not follow anyone else other than him.


Matthew 23:35 (also Lk 11:50-51)
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Matthew 27:25

All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"

John 8:44 (also Rev 2:9)

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

Revelation 3:9

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars - I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

 

[CMike]

Christianity is an offshoot sect of Judasim.

No it's not, christianity has nothing to do with judaism.

then why do we teach the jewish bible in Christianity?

Good question.

If you understood it than you would see that it contradicts chrisitan beliefs.

That is fine. But you can't believe in both and understand both. They are mutually exclusive.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Dividing up in parts is a christian creation, it has nothing to do with the Torah.

This is what I find annoying the perversion of the Torah. To jews it's a sacred text.

The Torah states what the prophesies will be when the messiah comes. In fact that is how jews will know it's the messiah. No where does it have it in different parts.

But I understand, that there is a clear and explicit description of what will happen when the messiah comes, and since jesus didn't fulfill any of them, christians must then create another part.

Just because Yashua has not fulfilled the prophesies that he hasn't fulfilled yet doesn't mean that he won't.

That within itself is a violation of the Torah and what G-D said.

Well, the Messiah that hasn't come (that you await) has not fulfilled them yet either. Is he in violation?

From the Torah "Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it."

Amen

The jews of the day knew the Torah and the laws and didn't act in mobs. It's more NT fiction.

I thought you said liars were supposed to be stoned? No? They would be following the law if they had stoned him. No?

Rejecting G-D would be following jesus, since G-D told jews specifically not follow anyone else other than him.

We just have a difference in opinion as to the definition of "him."

Matthew 23:35 (also Lk 11:50-51)
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Matthew 27:25

All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"

John 8:44 (also Rev 2:9)

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

Revelation 3:9

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars - I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

No commentary on these? What do you see them as meaning?

 

[froggy]

Jesus was not a martyr, he is our savior. I'm not blaming the jew, i'm just stating they play a major part in it. It was written long ago that Jesus would be hated by his own people, and given over to slaughter.

1. You are free to believe as you wish. Zai gezundt, as they say in Yiddish.

2. Jews do not recognize the new testament as divine... nor do they recognize Jeshua ben Yosef as the messiah. He did not fit the prophesies. The things that were supposed to happen before the coming of th messiah didn't happen and the things that were supposed to happen after the coming of the messiah HAVEN'T happened.

3. He was a rabbi... and a good one. A lot of the things he said were womderful and I have nothing but respect for them. It's the distortions of people who THINK they're following the words while, instead, following 'organized religion'who are the problem.

4. He was murdered by the Romans because the threatened the political hierarchy of the day. Was he turned over to them by the San Hedrin? Probably. And because of the same reason.

5. I take zero 'responsibility' for it... why would I? I don't take responsibility for any of the probably thousands of people the Romans killed via crucifixion any more than I take personal responsibility for WWI or WWII.

And kindly stop assuming anyone else believes what you do. Jews do not believe the messiah is G-d. Jews believe the Messiah is a King who will bring 1,000 years of peace. And we don't believe Jesus was Messiah in any event. And you can't turn away from something you don't believe is legitimate.

Again, no offense.... you are free to believe as you wish. To us, believing in Jesus as Messiah is no different from believing in Mohammed or Buddha.

I guess that would have beens god plan, knowing the jews would reject him.

 

[jillian]

I guess that would have beens god plan, knowing the jews would reject him.

psssst...

we think YOU are wrong.

That's the nature of faith. Prove me wrong WITHOUT using YOUR bible.

Thanks.

 

[froggy]

I guess that would have beens god plan, knowing the jews would reject him.

psssst...

we think YOU are wrong.

That's the nature of faith. Prove me wrong WITHOUT using YOUR bible.

Thanks.

I didn't use the Bible, Jesus is God did the Jews except him?

 

[uscitizen]

I guess that would have beens god plan, knowing the jews would reject him.

psssst...

we think YOU are wrong.

That's the nature of faith. Prove me wrong WITHOUT using YOUR bible.

Thanks.

I didn't use the Bible, Jesus is God did the Jews except him?

Yes they did except him. And had him crucified as well.
.

 

[jillian]

I didn't use the Bible, Jesus is God did the Jews except him?

that's your opinion... or should i say BELIEF...

it isn't fact any more than the koran is.

that's life.

check this. i don't care what you believe. but i sure as hell think it's the height of arrogance to think your beliefs are fact and not simply BELIEF.

you understand the difference, right?

FACT -- something PROVABLE.

BELIEF -- something you accept without proof

 

[AllieBaba]

Whoa there, yes, it is his belief...but just because it's a belief doesn't mean it isn't a fact as well.

Just saying.

 

[froggy]

I didn't use the Bible, Jesus is God did the Jews except him?

that's your opinion... or should i say BELIEF...

it isn't fact any more than the koran is.

that's life.

check this. i don't care what you believe. but i sure as hell think it's the height of arrogance to think your beliefs are fact and not simply BELIEF.

you understand the difference, right?

FACT -- something PROVABLE.

BELIEF -- something you accept without proof

Do you deny history of Jesus being here on this earth, and being crusified.

 

[CMike]

Dividing up in parts is a christian creation, it has nothing to do with the Torah.

This is what I find annoying the perversion of the Torah. To jews it's a sacred text.

The Torah states what the prophesies will be when the messiah comes. In fact that is how jews will know it's the messiah. No where does it have it in different parts.

But I understand, that there is a clear and explicit description of what will happen when the messiah comes, and since jesus didn't fulfill any of them, christians must then create another part.

Just because Yashua has not fulfilled the prophesies that he hasn't fulfilled yet doesn't mean that he won't.

Yeah...it does, since he is dead.

BTW the messiah will be a mortal human being.

That within itself is a violation of the Torah and what G-D said.

Well, the Messiah that hasn't come (that you await) has not fulfilled them yet either. Is he in violation?

No why would it be?

I thought you said liars were supposed to be stoned? No? They would be following the law if they had stoned him. No?

I didn't say liars should be stoned. False prophets, and those who try to get you to follow false prophets, should be stoned according to the Torah.

However, punishments can only be executed by the jewish court. The jewish court was disbanded, therefore it could not be carried out.

The Talmud also says that a jewish court that has an execution once in 70 years is a bloodthirsty court, but that's another topic.

Rejecting G-D would be following jesus, since G-D told jews specifically not follow anyone else other than him.

We just have a difference in opinion as to the definition of "him."

Are you Bill Clinton?

 

[CMike]

I guess that would have beens god plan, knowing the jews would reject him.

psssst...

we think YOU are wrong.

That's the nature of faith. Prove me wrong WITHOUT using YOUR bible.

Thanks.

I didn't use the Bible, Jesus is God did the Jews except him?

Do the jews accept G-D? Yes.

Do the jews that jesus is god? Definetly not. To do so would be a great insult to the real G-D.

 

[CMike]

psssst...

we think YOU are wrong.

That's the nature of faith. Prove me wrong WITHOUT using YOUR bible.

Thanks.

I didn't use the Bible, Jesus is God did the Jews except him?

Yes they did except him. And had him crucified as well.
.

The romans had him crucified. Romans weren't taking orders from the jews at that time

 

[Dr Grump]

Whoa there, yes, it is his belief...but just because it's a belief doesn't mean it isn't a fact as well.

Just saying.

True, and if you can prove your belief is a fact, then have at it...

 

[Dr Grump]

Do you deny history of Jesus being here on this earth, and being crusified.

Jesus was more likely than not real, and he was probably crucified.

Where it goes from there becomes faith, not fact...

 

[jillian]

Whoa there, yes, it is his belief...but just because it's a belief doesn't mean it isn't a fact as well.

Just saying.

that's the point...might be...might not.

as might the koran...as might any other belief system.

personally, i think they're different languages to speak with G-d and he's multi-lingual...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

I guess that would have beens god plan, knowing the jews would reject him.

psssst...

we think YOU are wrong.

That's the nature of faith. Prove me wrong WITHOUT using YOUR bible.

Thanks.

Oh! Is THAT all ya need? No problem... guess ya missed this...

Jesus was not a martyr, he is our savior. I'm not blaming the jew, i'm just stating they play a major part in it. It was written long ago that Jesus would be hated by his own people, and given over to slaughter.

1. You are free to believe as you wish. Zai gezundt, as they say in Yiddish.

Oh, that's mighty white of ya... Thanks...

2. Jews do not recognize the new testament as divine... nor do they recognize Jeshua ben Yosef as the messiah. He did not fit the prophesies. The things that were supposed to happen before the coming of th messiah didn't happen and the things that were supposed to happen after the coming of the messiah HAVEN'T happened.

Well that's all for interpretation, prophesies tend to be sorta vague... suffice it to say that others disagree; but you are free to believe as you wish.

3. He was a rabbi... and a good one. A lot of the things he said were womderful and I have nothing but respect for them. It's the distortions of people who THINK they're following the words while, instead, following 'organized religion'who are the problem.

Yes... much like the followers of the words of the Humanists Robespierre and company, who spawned Marx and Ingles and the endless trail of the Anti-Religous, Humanist faithful... cloaked in every conceivable deceit.

Of course, like San Hedrin they were not good people and there's no potential respect to be found in any of their words; the organized followers of which have brought the world nothing but death and destruction; mayhem; chaos, calamity and catastrophe; which are the problem...

4. He was murdered by the Romans because the threatened the political hierarchy of the day. Was he turned over to them by the San Hedrin? Probably. And because of the same reason.

Not probably... precisely... and indeed it was for the same reason.

5. I take zero 'responsibility' for it... why would I? I don't take responsibility for any of the probably thousands of people the Romans killed via crucifixion any more than I take personal responsibility for WWI or WWII.

Well that's interesting; as you're a chronic advocate of the very ideologies which delivered WW1 and 2... but like a faithful Leftists... you reject the bearing of ANY responsibility for the results of those things for which you advocate. Which is of course precisely how WW1 lead to WW2 and how, inevitably; the world is barreling towards WW3.

And kindly stop assuming anyone else believes what you do. Jews do not believe the messiah is G-d. Jews believe the Messiah is a King who will bring 1,000 years of peace. And we don't believe Jesus was Messiah in any event. And you can't turn away from something you don't believe is legitimate.

The member doesn't state that they believe 'everyone believes as they do'... such isn't even implied... they are stating their belief and you are trying to discredit that belief through a fallacious appeal to popularity; which you've wrapped in the rather flaccid appeal to authority...

Again, no offense.... you are free to believe as you wish. To us, believing in Jesus as Messiah is no different from believing in Mohammed or Buddha.

ROFLMNAO...

Oh now that IS precious... The thing about such beliefs is that it's SO common for your stripe to believe in the aforementioned evil... detaching yourselves of the predictable catastrophe which is only certain to follow such... and which has delivered unto Israel such collosal and continual tragedy.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Errrr no.

1) The romans crucified him

2) G-D told the jews in numerous passages that there is only him, to not trust anyone but him, to not worship anyone but him, to not put t heir trust in any man, etc.

3)Almost every prayer in judaism proclaims that G-D is one

I think it was the jews who got the roman to do the dirty deed.

cause occupiers always listen to the people they occupy, right?

Rome was not exactly a small empire during the time of Christ. It's borders extended from The Brittish Channel to the North down to the deserts of Africa and from the Euphrates to the Atlantic. So, the last thing the romans wanted was to deal with Jewish conflicts or the possability of a Jewish revolt.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Dividing up in parts is a christian creation, it has nothing to do with the Torah.

This is what I find annoying the perversion of the Torah. To jews it's a sacred text.

The Torah states what the prophesies will be when the messiah comes. In fact that is how jews will know it's the messiah. No where does it have it in different parts.

But I understand, that there is a clear and explicit description of what will happen when the messiah comes, and since jesus didn't fulfill any of them, christians must then create another part.

Just because Yashua has not fulfilled the prophesies that he hasn't fulfilled yet doesn't mean that he won't.

Yeah...it does, since he is dead.

BTW the messiah will be a mortal human being.

Yashua was a mortal human being that was raised from the dead. So, no it is not over. You will see him when he returns again. This time he will come as KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS.

BTW, doesn't a mortal human being have to be born? Just a thought.

I didn't say liars should be stoned. False prophets, and those who try to get you to follow false prophets, should be stoned according to the Torah.

So, he should have been right?

However, punishments can only be executed by the jewish court. The jewish court was disbanded, therefore it could not be carried out.

That is why they had to have the Romans do the deed.

Are you Bill Clinton?

Weren't you suppose to ask if I am Elijah?

 

[Douger]

He outdid Santa, when it cumz to naughty and nice.