what deference do we owe to police when stopped

[JakeStarkey]

Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights


I had a brother in law who was a San Diego County officer many years ago. He would say, "Not only do I enforce the law, I am the law!"

In a column titled, "Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights", responding to comments by a college professor who had been a cop for 17 years, Nick Wing responds,

"If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don't comply, we already have a problem. That's especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do."

"If you really think that everybody else should "just do what I tell you," you're wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can't function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit."

I agree. The police are answerable to the citizenry in the end, not just the LEO community for which it works.

 

[Mad Scientist]

We gave the Cops the Authority to enforce Our Laws.

A Badge and a Gun do not confer any extra or special rights.

 

[martybegan]

The problem is there are ZERO real repercussions for an officer that violates someones rights, even repeatedly. They are cleared by their Unions, their departments, and the politicians that hire them. Policing cannot be treated like a job where you are protected when you screw up, and guess what? Violating someones rights is screwing up.

If you don't want to run the risk of losing your pension because you can't do your job, don't become a fucking police officer.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights


I had a brother in law who was a San Diego County officer many years ago. He would say, "Not only do I enforce the law, I am the law!"

In a column titled, "Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights", responding to comments by a college professor who had been a cop for 17 years, Nick Wing responds,

"If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don't comply, we already have a problem. That's especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do."

"If you really think that everybody else should "just do what I tell you," you're wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can't function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit."

I agree. The police are answerable to the citizenry in the end, not just the LEO community for which it works.

in a case of mistaken identity

i know a guy who got pulled over

and was getting beaten by a sheriff

in the wrong county

the tables turned he bested the sheriff

with the sheriffs own flashlight

then used the sheriffs radio to call it in

he was charged but later the charges dropped

he sued and won a settlement out of court

 

[saveliberty]

I have my license and registration ready with my hands in plain sight. We have a little chat and I'm on my way. Reduced stress is good for everyone.

 

[pinqy]

Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights


I had a brother in law who was a San Diego County officer many years ago. He would say, "Not only do I enforce the law, I am the law!"

In a column titled, "Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights", responding to comments by a college professor who had been a cop for 17 years, Nick Wing responds,

"If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don't comply, we already have a problem. That's especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do."

"If you really think that everybody else should "just do what I tell you," you're wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can't function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit."

I agree. The police are answerable to the citizenry in the end, not just the LEO community for which it works.

Welll, let's take a look at the opinion piece that was being responded to in your link:
I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?

I have never ever seen or heard of a case where arguing, insulting, threatening, being belligerent to a cop made things better. In the history of ever that's never worked. But I have seen and heard plenty of cases where it made things worse.

What do people expect from mouthing off?
"But I wasn't doing anything wrong!"
"Oh. Well, I guess I'll just take your word for it. My bad; you're free to go."

"<insert random insults>"
"You're right, I am. And I feel terrible about it. No charges you're free to go."
Is that how people expect things to go? No. If you're pulled over and the cop intended to just give you a warning, but you're a dick about it....you're getting a ticket.

It's pretty simple: Don't be a jerk, especially to a person who has legal power over you. Regardless of whether or not the cop is a jerk (and plenty are) being a jerk as well is pointless and likely to make things worse.

Yes, some cops are major, self-important bully assholes. How does arguing with them or being belligerent help?

 

[saveliberty]

Filing a complaint does tend to screw up promotions...

 

[boedicca]

Good thread, Jake.

Police are civilians and part of the community. Over the past few decades, however, they have becoming increasingly militarized (enabled by the Feds), and are acting more like an occupying force.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is a good point.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Filing a complaint does tend to screw up promotions...

It's also a good way to get yourself (or your children) killed.

 

[pinqy]

It's also a good way to get yourself (or your children) killed.

You have examples of this?

 

[ClosedCaption]

I notice all the RW'ers here arguing the opposite of the OP.

Just kidding the opposite only applies to people like Brown or that guy in NY who got choked to death

 

[martybegan]

I notice all the RW'ers here arguing the opposite of the OP.

Just kidding the opposite only applies to people like Brown or that guy in NY who got choked to death

Plenty of people are calling for investigation into the NY thing as well, "rightwingers" included.

But keep up with your usual snarky bullshit, its really a conversation starter....

 

[ClosedCaption]

Plenty of people are calling for investigation into the NY thing as well, "rightwingers" included.

But keep up with your usual snarky bullshit, its really a conversation starter....

That hurts my feel...go fuck yourself

 

[boedicca]

This is a good point.
View attachment 31254

This is the answer. Another poster advocating installing surveillance cameras throughout a city (which is a horrifying idea). Much better to have cameras that monitor situations involving the police. This protects the police from false accusations as well as protecting the public from police abuse.

 

[martybegan]

That hurts my feel...go fuck yourself

 

[ClosedCaption]

LOL

 

[shart_attack]

I have my license and registration ready with my hands in plain sight. We have a little chat and I'm on my way. Reduced stress is good for everyone.

Usually how it goes for me, too — 'cept "on my way" usually means to a holding cell downtown.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Basically anything that happens to blacks by anyone pretty much is for a good reason.

 

[Anathema]

I've never had an issue with a cop. Even when I had two Mass State Troopers draw down on me in August of 2002 because my vehicle matched the description of one used in a crime but I didn't match the suspect. I don't give them a reason to mess with me and I don't mess with them.