what deference do we owe to police when stopped

[Quantum Windbag]

Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights


I had a brother in law who was a San Diego County officer many years ago. He would say, "Not only do I enforce the law, I am the law!"

In a column titled, "Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights", responding to comments by a college professor who had been a cop for 17 years, Nick Wing responds,

"If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don't comply, we already have a problem. That's especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do."

"If you really think that everybody else should "just do what I tell you," you're wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can't function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit."

I agree. The police are answerable to the citizenry in the end, not just the LEO community for which it works.

Damn, Jake is actually right about something for once. Never thought I would see the day.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights


I had a brother in law who was a San Diego County officer many years ago. He would say, "Not only do I enforce the law, I am the law!"

In a column titled, "Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights", responding to comments by a college professor who had been a cop for 17 years, Nick Wing responds,

"If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don't comply, we already have a problem. That's especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do."

"If you really think that everybody else should "just do what I tell you," you're wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can't function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit."

I agree. The police are answerable to the citizenry in the end, not just the LEO community for which it works.

Welll, let's take a look at the opinion piece that was being responded to in your link:
I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?

I have never ever seen or heard of a case where arguing, insulting, threatening, being belligerent to a cop made things better. In the history of ever that's never worked. But I have seen and heard plenty of cases where it made things worse.

What do people expect from mouthing off?
"But I wasn't doing anything wrong!"
"Oh. Well, I guess I'll just take your word for it. My bad; you're free to go."

"<insert random insults>"
"You're right, I am. And I feel terrible about it. No charges you're free to go."
Is that how people expect things to go? No. If you're pulled over and the cop intended to just give you a warning, but you're a dick about it....you're getting a ticket.

It's pretty simple: Don't be a jerk, especially to a person who has legal power over you. Regardless of whether or not the cop is a jerk (and plenty are) being a jerk as well is pointless and likely to make things worse.

Yes, some cops are major, self-important bully assholes. How does arguing with them or being belligerent help?

You are asking the wrong question, the question you should be asking is what good does it do to let assholes get way with violating the law and the Constitution?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Filing a complaint does tend to screw up promotions...

In what universe?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Basically anything that happens to blacks by anyone pretty much is for a good reason.

Only to the racist fuckwads, like you.

 

[pismoe]

all my life I've just been polite and that's about it . Usually goes pretty smoothly even when I was younger and riding a straight piped BSA 650 . I knew that I had been spotted so I pulled over and waited for the cop to tell me that my pipes were loud .

 

[pismoe]

one time I had just closed up ANDY's bar and was headed home at about 2:30 in the morning [summer 1972 , about]. State police shop was on m41 right out of Marquette after Shiras Hill right next to Lake Superior and on the right next to the state prison . I ride through Harvey up to 41 and 28 intersection . This was the last 6 - 7 mile leg of my ride to my parents house and I always went for a high speed run . Anyway , I lean the bike over to the left into M28 and make the turn and then hit the throttle . I see car tail lights about a mile up the road and I'm approaching the tail lights but the road is otherwise deserted . All is cool till I get ready to pass the car and then I see , uh oh , State Police on the cars trunk . I backed off , slowed down and followed to my turn onto Lakewood Lane. I was laughing at the time as it was obvious that the cops were going to leave me alone . I got to my turn and hit the hilo beam as a thankyou to the police for not messing with me . So , not a cop stop story but a memory , hope you guys don't mind the story .

 

[Jarlaxle]

Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights


I had a brother in law who was a San Diego County officer many years ago. He would say, "Not only do I enforce the law, I am the law!"

In a column titled, "Veteran Cop: 'If You Don't Want To Get Shot,' Shut Up -- Even If We're Violating Your Rights", responding to comments by a college professor who had been a cop for 17 years, Nick Wing responds,

"If you have the attitude that you are owed deference and instant obedience by the people around you, and that you are justified in using violence against them if they don't comply, we already have a problem. That's especially true if official institutions back you up, which they do."

"If you really think that everybody else should "just do what I tell you," you're wearing the wrong uniform in the wrong country. And if you really can't function with some give and take—a few nasty names, a little argument—of the sort that people in all sorts of jobs put up with every damned day, do us all a favor: quit."

I agree. The police are answerable to the citizenry in the end, not just the LEO community for which it works.

Damn, Jake is actually right about something for once. Never thought I would see the day.

Even a blind jackass finds an occasional feedbag...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jarl, I know it sux to be a drone like you.

The LEO and the paramilitarization of assets and of culture among them must be reversed.

 

[pismoe]

police were very different back in the late 60s - 70s when I was growing up . I think that they saw themselves as citizens , just American doing a job .

 

[martybegan]

Filing a complaint does tend to screw up promotions...

In what universe?

Complaints are almost seen as a cost of doing business for the police. The real ones get smothered by all the bullshit ones.

 

[Disir]

It's worth noting that arguing with a cop and even verbally abusing one, as well as asking for a badge number, are not illegal actions,
Actually that can be against the law depending on the context.

(720 ILCS 5/26-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 26-1)Sec. 26-1. Disorderly conduct. (a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he or she knowingly: (1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to

alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace; [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Illinois General Assembly - Illinois Compiled Statutes

(720 ILCS 5/31-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 31-1)
Sec. 31-1. Resisting or obstructing a peace officer, firefighter, or correctional institution employee.
(a) A person who knowingly resists or obstructs the performance by one known to the person to be a peace officer, firefighter, or correctional institution employee of any authorized act within his or her official capacity commits a Class A misdemeanor.
Illinois General Assembly - Illinois Compiled Statutes

and then there is this:
Illinois General Assembly - Illinois Compiled Statutes

 

[Moonglow]

I have my license and registration ready with my hands in plain sight. We have a little chat and I'm on my way. Reduced stress is good for everyone.

unless you have a tater shootin' gun on the floor board....

 

[Disir]

Hey Jake, I didn't want to start an entirely different thread on it but I found an interesting take on it.
A Cops take on Ferguson

 

[JakeStarkey]

Hey Jake, I didn't want to start an entirely different thread on it but I found an interesting take on it.
A Cops take on Ferguson

Great article! I disagree with the writer on this point: "Once the threat has stopped, then your need to use force stops too."

Martin allegedly 'bum rushed' the officer. The officer had suffered serious structural injury to the bones around his eye, and he was in fear of this taunting, enraged your man.

I would have shot Martin, too.

 

[Katzndogz]

The police would be happy to get the ordinary courtesy and respect that we should normally be taught to give everyone.

 

[Katzndogz]

Hey Jake, I didn't want to start an entirely different thread on it but I found an interesting take on it.
A Cops take on Ferguson

I clicked on the link, but once I saw Daily Kos, it wasn't worth my time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Then you are a fool if you don't read as much as you can pertaining to a serious situation.

 

[Disir]

Hey Jake, I didn't want to start an entirely different thread on it but I found an interesting take on it.
A Cops take on Ferguson

Great article! I disagree with the writer on this point: "Once the threat has stopped, then your need to use force stops too."

Martin allegedly 'bum rushed' the officer. The officer had suffered serious structural injury to the bones around his eye, and he was in fear of this taunting, enraged your man.

I would have shot Martin, too.

I think he meant in general.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I agree with you.

 

[Disir]

Hey Jake, I didn't want to start an entirely different thread on it but I found an interesting take on it.
A Cops take on Ferguson

I clicked on the link, but once I saw Daily Kos, it wasn't worth my time.

He often doesn't agree with Kos. There are still several people trying to hold on to the old Kos.