what deference do we owe to police when stopped

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Forums > US Discussion > Law and Justice System >

1. 
   what deference do we owe to police when stopped
   
   
   As agents of the state LO are subject to the same Constitutional restrictions as any other manifestation of the state.
   
   
   One should of course be courteous to a LEO as one would any other person, but his authority as a sworn officer doesn't mitigate one's civil rights.
   
   
   For example, citizens are at liberty to refuse a request for a search absent reasonable suspicion, probable cause,
   exigent circumstances, or other searches not authorized in accordance with 4th Amendment jurisprudence.
   

 

[pismoe]

Yep , think you are correct C.Clayton !!

 

[Anathema]

For example, citizens are at liberty to refuse a request for a search absent reasonable suspicion, probable cause,exigent circumstances, or other searches not authorized in accordance with 4th Amendment jurisprudence.

True, and in doing so they are create even more suspicion about themselves, which is not likely to work to their benefit.

 

[ScarletRage]

You owe zero deference to the police. That being said, police tend to get thug like if you even ask about your rights. Legislatures do things to remove your fourth amendment rights, such as implied consent laws. Police run around as if they are entitled.

Why? Because juries run around and basically sheep the police officers. Oh the DA and the cops say he's guilty. Convict. It's a rare day to get the not guilty verdict.

If you're talking to the police (heaven forbid), use formal proper language, deference to basically make your life easier. Do you owe them anything. No.

Assert your fourth amendment rights (but for DUI it gets harder on the chemical test).

 

[Politico]

Filing a complaint does tend to screw up promotions...

It's also a good way to get yourself (or your children) killed.

Oh that's comedy gold.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Only to the psychopathic.

 

[Wry Catcher]

We gave the Cops the Authority to enforce Our Laws.

A Badge and a Gun do not confer any extra or special rights.

A badge and a gun do not confer any extra or special rights; LE officers are required to obey the law and follow their agencies' policies. What is conferred to a LEO is the authority to enforce laws and maintain the public peace, while adhering to policies in which they have been trained.

Too many civilians believe they have the right to confront legal authority and debate a situation on the spot; many times in situations highly charged with emotion. That is their first mistake. There is a time and a place for the citizen to tell his or her story, but not when it interferes with the officers' ability to understand the situation, enforce the law and keep the peace.

A LEO has a duty to get home safely to his or her family. In the course of the job dangerous situation occurs too frequently, and he or she has no recourse to withdraw. The second citizen mistake can be fatal, efforts by an emotionally charged citizen to cause a LEO to fear for his life is a fool.

Be discreet, follow directions and if you feel your rights have been violated, seek redress with the agencies Internal Affairs Division. Keep in mind, a false report of an officer's misconduct is a crime, in most states.

 

[Politico]

Only to the psychopathic.

No only to anyone who actually buys that crap.

 

[martybegan]

We gave the Cops the Authority to enforce Our Laws.

A Badge and a Gun do not confer any extra or special rights.

A badge and a gun do not confer any extra or special rights; LE officers are required to obey the law and follow their agencies' policies. What is conferred to a LEO is the authority to enforce laws and maintain the public peace, while adhering to policies in which they have been trained.

Too many civilians believe they have the right to confront legal authority and debate a situation on the spot; many times in situations highly charged with emotion. That is their first mistake. There is a time and a place for the citizen to tell his or her story, but not when it interferes with the officers' ability to understand the situation, enforce the law and keep the peace.

A LEO has a duty to get home safely to his or her family. In the course of the job dangerous situation occurs too frequently, and he or she has no recourse to withdraw. The second citizen mistake can be fatal, efforts by an emotionally charged citizen to cause a LEO to fear for his life is a fool.

Be discreet, follow directions and if you feel your rights have been violated, seek redress with the agencies Internal Affairs Division. Keep in mind, a false report of an officer's misconduct is a crime, in most states.

The problem is there is no real redress anymore for officers behaving badly. You have a better chance of turning lead into gold then of making a complaint stick against an officer, and even less of a chance for anything of consequence to happen to them.

Being a police officer cannot be treated as a 9-5 job. with the added powers HAS to come added responsibility, and consequences for messing up those responsibilities. An officers life is also not worth any more or any less than the people he or she is policing, and right now, that does not seem to be the case.

The case in Salt Lake city where the officer shot a guys dog in the guys closed back yard, with no warrant, and no reason to be in the yard except for a missing child report is case in point. He should have been at least suspended, or even fired, but he was cleared of all wrong doing.

THAT is the problem we have. We have created a new class of knights, who seem to have more rights than the rest of us.

 

[pismoe]

agree and I like your mention of a special class of KNIGHTS Marty . Employees of the state Queen / King !!

 

[Wry Catcher]

We gave the Cops the Authority to enforce Our Laws.

A Badge and a Gun do not confer any extra or special rights.

A badge and a gun do not confer any extra or special rights; LE officers are required to obey the law and follow their agencies' policies. What is conferred to a LEO is the authority to enforce laws and maintain the public peace, while adhering to policies in which they have been trained.

Too many civilians believe they have the right to confront legal authority and debate a situation on the spot; many times in situations highly charged with emotion. That is their first mistake. There is a time and a place for the citizen to tell his or her story, but not when it interferes with the officers' ability to understand the situation, enforce the law and keep the peace.

A LEO has a duty to get home safely to his or her family. In the course of the job dangerous situation occurs too frequently, and he or she has no recourse to withdraw. The second citizen mistake can be fatal, efforts by an emotionally charged citizen to cause a LEO to fear for his life is a fool.

Be discreet, follow directions and if you feel your rights have been violated, seek redress with the agencies Internal Affairs Division. Keep in mind, a false report of an officer's misconduct is a crime, in most states.

The problem is there is no real redress anymore for officers behaving badly. You have a better chance of turning lead into gold then of making a complaint stick against an officer, and even less of a chance for anything of consequence to happen to them.

Being a police officer cannot be treated as a 9-5 job. with the added powers HAS to come added responsibility, and consequences for messing up those responsibilities. An officers life is also not worth any more or any less than the people he or she is policing, and right now, that does not seem to be the case.

The case in Salt Lake city where the officer shot a guys dog in the guys closed back yard, with no warrant, and no reason to be in the yard except for a missing child report is case in point. He should have been at least suspended, or even fired, but he was cleared of all wrong doing.

THAT is the problem we have. We have created a new class of knights, who seem to have more rights than the rest of us.

LEO's are held to a higher standard of behavior, and all allegations of wrongdoing are investigated (at least in the agencies of which I'm familiar). I spent a tour conducting IA's and your comment, "The problem is there is no real redress anymore for officers behaving badly" is complete bullshit.

My staff and I investigated all complaints of wrongdoing, and recommended to the hiring authority for termination or suspension of sworn staff, when warranted.

I personally let several staff go who were on probation, a time when no cause needs to be provided to the officer; they are simply told, "not everyone is cut out for this job".

 

[martybegan]

We gave the Cops the Authority to enforce Our Laws.

A Badge and a Gun do not confer any extra or special rights.

A badge and a gun do not confer any extra or special rights; LE officers are required to obey the law and follow their agencies' policies. What is conferred to a LEO is the authority to enforce laws and maintain the public peace, while adhering to policies in which they have been trained.

Too many civilians believe they have the right to confront legal authority and debate a situation on the spot; many times in situations highly charged with emotion. That is their first mistake. There is a time and a place for the citizen to tell his or her story, but not when it interferes with the officers' ability to understand the situation, enforce the law and keep the peace.

A LEO has a duty to get home safely to his or her family. In the course of the job dangerous situation occurs too frequently, and he or she has no recourse to withdraw. The second citizen mistake can be fatal, efforts by an emotionally charged citizen to cause a LEO to fear for his life is a fool.

Be discreet, follow directions and if you feel your rights have been violated, seek redress with the agencies Internal Affairs Division. Keep in mind, a false report of an officer's misconduct is a crime, in most states.

The problem is there is no real redress anymore for officers behaving badly. You have a better chance of turning lead into gold then of making a complaint stick against an officer, and even less of a chance for anything of consequence to happen to them.

Being a police officer cannot be treated as a 9-5 job. with the added powers HAS to come added responsibility, and consequences for messing up those responsibilities. An officers life is also not worth any more or any less than the people he or she is policing, and right now, that does not seem to be the case.

The case in Salt Lake city where the officer shot a guys dog in the guys closed back yard, with no warrant, and no reason to be in the yard except for a missing child report is case in point. He should have been at least suspended, or even fired, but he was cleared of all wrong doing.

THAT is the problem we have. We have created a new class of knights, who seem to have more rights than the rest of us.

LEO's are held to a higher standard of behavior, and all allegations of wrongdoing are investigated (at least in the agencies of which I'm familiar). I spent a tour conducting IA's and your comment, "The problem is there is no real redress anymore for officers behaving badly" is complete bullshit.

My staff and I investigated all complaints of wrongdoing, and recommended to the hiring authority for termination or suspension of sworn staff, when warranted.

I personally let several staff go who were on probation, a time when no cause needs to be provided to the officer; they are simply told, "not everyone is cut out for this job".

Investigated does not equal taken care of. And try getting an NYPD officer off the force unless he/she basically beats the snot out of someone.

You also have to add in all the other chickenshit officers can get away with. Parking in front of hydrants, avoiding speeding tickets, getting free passes on most gun laws when off duty. Again, you create the impression of a class of citizen that somehow has far more rights and privileges than anyone else.

You also decided not to comment on my example, which is telling.

 

[pismoe]

and correct on the gun laws , I think that hi capacity mag limits in some states do not apply to police so if I'm correct then that's just one HUGE and easily understood example .

 

[rightwinger]

While the cop is being an asshole, just shut the fuck up

You have nothing to gain by getting in his face, bitching, whining or threatening him

Get his name and badge number, document what he said and you said and file a formal complaint

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

While the cop is being an asshole, just shut the fuck up

You have nothing to gain by getting in his face, bitching, whining or threatening him

Get his name and badge number, document what he said and you said and file a formal complaint

Of which nobody at his department will give a shit.

Just about everyone has a phone with a camera these days. Film every interaction you may have with a police officer.

 

[rightwinger]

While the cop is being an asshole, just shut the fuck up

You have nothing to gain by getting in his face, bitching, whining or threatening him

Get his name and badge number, document what he said and you said and file a formal complaint

Of which nobody at his department will give a shit.

Just about everyone has a phone with a camera these days. Film every interaction you may have with a police officer.

Nobody at his department will give a shit if you start bitching at him and he reataliates by trumping on more charges against you

I agree with filming or recording the interaction. The more professional you are will contrast with how unprofessional he is

A little YouTube can go a long way

 

[Wry Catcher]

While the cop is being an asshole, just shut the fuck up

You have nothing to gain by getting in his face, bitching, whining or threatening him

Get his name and badge number, document what he said and you said and file a formal complaint

Of which nobody at his department will give a shit.

Just about everyone has a phone with a camera these days. Film every interaction you may have with a police officer.

People do give a shit! You have no idea - as usual - what goes on in an Internal Affairs Investigation. Most problems with a LEO begin when assholes like you, who already have a chip on their shoulder, fail the attitude test.

When a deputy first arrives on the scene, he or she has limited information and needs to quickly assess the situation. It's usually a good practice to keep one's mouth shut until asked a question. Only then is it wise to speak up, doing so before, unless the information to be imparted is critical to the officer's understanding, is usually intrusive and not productive.

 

[Jarlaxle]

What usually goes on in an "investigation" is that someone goes to the garage and checks the big tank hidden behind the false wall in the back...they need to make sure the tank is full, because they need plenty of whitewash.

 

[whitehall]

State and local Police are a hell of a lot more answerable to the citizens than federal cops. All you have to do is produce your license and registration when you are stopped on the road. If you refuse to take off your shoes at an airport or say the wrong thing you are subject to all sorts of abuse and arrest. Ask Randy Weaver what he did to deserve his son being shot in the back and his wife shot in the face by an FBI sniper while she was holding a baby in her arms. The feds apologized and gave him a million dollars. How bad was the search warrant that led to tanks and poison gas used against American citizens at Waco? Why aren't federal cops indicted for shipping 3,000 illegal weapons to drug cartels in Mexico and their responsibility for the deaths of two Border Patrol officers who were killed by the weapons?

 

[martybegan]

While the cop is being an asshole, just shut the fuck up

You have nothing to gain by getting in his face, bitching, whining or threatening him

Get his name and badge number, document what he said and you said and file a formal complaint

And watch that complaint die in the bureaucracy. It can die at the command level, it can die via police union action, or it can die with a complacent Civilian Complaint Review Board.