WACO

[LA RAM FAN]

The only fault of the ATF and the FBI was going ahead with the first raid even though people had advance knowledge of it, causing the deaths of at least three agents when people inside the compound opened fire on them. This wasn't the first time that cops screwed up. Remember the 1985 bombing of Philadelphia in an effort to get members of MOVE, when everyone in the MOVE fortified house died, and 61 homes were burnt to the ground:

1985: When Philly police dropped a bomb on a residential neighborhood

Nobody remembers MOVE or thinks that they were murdered by heartless government officials. MOVE seems to have been a Koresh-type outfit. Nobody even remembers the innocent people who were burnt out of 61+ homes in the area as a result of a bomb set off by law enforcement.

So I don't know how why what happened in Waco should be remembered. Koresh was known for the sexual abuse and grooming of female children and other abuse of male children. Koresh opened fire on agents with an arrest warrant some 51 days before. The fires were set by the Branch Davidians themselves. It was the county sheriff's department that first contacted the ATF.

Growing Up Under Koresh: Cult Children Tell of Abuses

Life inside apocalyptic religious sect involved in 1993 Waco siege

Waco siege - Wikipedia

How the 1993 Waco standoff began with a bloody gunbattle that federal agents now regret | Crime | Dallas News

I was home that day to clean the carpets and watched the entire incident unfold in real time. Even after the fire started, no one attempted to escape. I started screaming at the TV when I saw no one coming out. The fires were set in two different places.

All of this BS about Waco is just that.

okay you just lost your credibility using wikipedia as a sopurce,they are controlled by the government,they type in whatever they want you to hear.your credibility is shot to hell same as joes is as well with that lie the davidians started the fires,all you have to do is watch one of the videos and it CLEARLY shows a tank with a flame thrower mounted on it shooint flames onto the compound. so yes waco,the version of events given by the government which is the links you have,is bullshit.

I saw the whole thing in real time. That was gas being shot. The vehicle did not have a flamethrower on it. The fires started in two separate places, one well away from the vehicle. As I have said before, no one came out of the building. Why not. wouldn't you leave a two-story building if it were burning?

Why did the Branch Davidians open fire on the federal agents, killing and wounding several, 51 days before the fire?

Why did they send some children away and not all of them? Some of the saved children even said in advance that Koresh was going to burn the place down.

Why do the right-winger like to protect and honor child rapists? Most of us find the prospect of a child being raped disgusting, not "funny."

How would you have gotten out the women and children being held in this compound by a group of insane and well-armed men, capable of rape and murder?

Law enforcement lets these standoffs last far too long. We saw that with the Bundy thing in Oregon, too. The Bundy group should have had its asses kicked out and jailed weeks before. This stupid nonsense by the tiny-penis fake men has got to stop. Now. Their stupid theatrics are not more important than the safety of society.

Bull-fucking shit....don't try that shit on me. I was in Dallas, Texas and watched the whole thing live by one of the Dallas affiliates. They fried the people...those that were left any way. They had to in order to cover up their crime. Koresh opened the door when the raid started hitting him and killing one of the people in the house. Stop being such a sheeple.

BTW, you OBVIOUSLY don't have a fucking clue as to what the Oregon stand-off was about or how Lavoy Finicum was shot in the back by a gutless Fed...but most little commies don't so you have plenty of company in the party of "stupid".

I have to call BS on you. Answer me why there was a gunfight 51 days earlier. Answer me as to how it was that no one attempted to flee when the fire started. Answer me why right-wingers defend child rapists and groomers.

As for Oregon, those little bitches weren't supposed to be there doing what they did in the first place, so their motive is entirely irrelevant. Finicum said days earlier that he wanted to die, and the little skank was killed attempting to draw a weapon. No great loss. He should have kept his hands in the air and awaited a pat-down search. Cops get off for killing unarmed black men all the time, saying that they perceived that they were in danger. Finicum was armed., and he certainly looked like he was going for it.

And I'm a "little commie?" You have no way of knowing what my views on economics are. How childish of you.

Oh my the irony

funny how you call HIM childish just because you cant counter his evidence and facts.

you are hardly in any position to call ANYONE childish except joe b and the other waco apologists just like you that since you are too arrogant to watch the films or read the documented books we have referred you all to.that little truth hurts how he took you to school the fact he struck a nerve and got you so frustrated you could not counter his pesky facts.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Don't forget that Koresh repeatedly raped little girls and forced little boys to march around like soldiers, and then lit the fires that killed so many. The public support for child rapists and sex-groomers in this country has been astounding.

Whether the Davidians started the fires as a deliberately suicidal act, or if the reckless actions of the FBI/HRT accidentally caused ignition, remains a matter of divided opinions. But three things are undeniably certain. The FBI/HRT knew Koresh had threatened mass suicide if an attempt was made to breach the compound's walls. They had reliable cause (advice of professional behaviorists) to believe Koresh was mentally unstable. And they knew there were 21 helpless children in that building.

They knew those things.

So what was law enforcement supposed to do, considering that Koresh and his minions had opened fire on the LEO's weeks ago, resulting in several deaths and injuries? How long does society have to let these groups go on,,baby raping and weapons stock-piling? Are they supposed to be mollycoddled for what they were doing? Yeah. There were "helpless children" inside that building with a madman, as well as adults who may have wished to leave. The government of Australia was even pointing out that there were Australian nationals endangered there. Law enforcement is, at the very least, charged with rescuing children from these circumstances. Who else but them could do so? I doubt that anyone else would dash in and carry a 12-year-old rape victim to safety.

Incidentally, the fires were started in two separate locations. This much was evident from watching.

Why place the blame on law enforcement and not the Branch Davidians?

because stupid fuck troll,there was NO evidence that the Branch Davidians started the fire but TONS of evidence law enforcement did as we have taken your ass to the cleaners here too many times to remember on this thread.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

It appears jack boots come in both red, and blue, varieties.

Or we just can't work up a lot of sympathy for Crazy White People who belong to whacky cults.

I wonder why you Libertarian nuts don't show this much outrage when a black child is shot by a cop.

I know you don't read all my posts, Joe, but I do.

Do you like red, blue - or just the traditional black best?

Joe and the other government shills Lysistrata and ok susie NEVER read out posts same lke they never read the documented books on waco or watch the video footage that day.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

[...]

Frankly, I want a government to protect us from people like David Koresh. I'm not sure why you don't.

[...]

What threat did David Koresh or any of the Branch Davidians pose to you, or me, or anyone else? Who did any of those people harm? The answer is no one.

While it is entirely possible that Vernon Howell ("David Koresh") was guilty of certain forms of socially unacceptable behavior he was not the evil demon that various government entities and individuals such as yourself portray him as being. If he did in fact engage in certain pedophilic activities none of it took place outside the boundaries of the Davidian cult wherein it was as acceptable as it is in many other exotic religious gatherings, both past and present. And while you have casually accused him of rape, not even the professional liars who produced the BATF's warrant application went that far.

I find it interesting that Sheriff Jack Harwell, the chief of that county's law enforcement resources, had a more favorable impression and opinion of Koresh and the Branch Davidians than you (and some others) do -- the main difference being Harwell knew the Davidians personally while you did not.

Sheriff Jack Harwell | Waco - The Inside Story | FRONTLINE | PBS

shills Lysistrate,Joe and susie as we both know wont read this ling of yours since pesky facts shoot down their warped opinions.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

This beloved "gubermint" that you have so much love, faith and trust in killed the one leader that was trying to free this country from the shadow government that has owned it "lock, stock and barrel for fifty years. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground as it pertains to what is true reality and I am sure that you lack the mental capacity to grasp it.

No, guy, nothing is going to help your level of crazy.

Infrastructure has been crumbling and even more so the last twenty years, the electrical grids haven't been upgraded in decades but don't feel that your sweat equity that moves this fiat currency with no intrinsic value has been a waste of time.

Really? Every road I use is in pretty good shape. Haven't had an electrical outage in years, save when the occasional storm knocks out a power line. (Then again, that happens in your neck of the woods, I'm sure you blame the Bilderbergers.)

Yep, Joseph, I know more than you and I have tried to explain the nature of the cage as it pertains to this debt slavery system.....I can lead you to water but it seems rather crude to stick your head in the trough and force you to drink.

Sigh, buddy.

You are a crazy person. somehow, I doubt you hold down a job and you probably spend every day waiting for your disability check (judging by how often you post here when decent people are working)

View attachment 187935

LMAO! It's leftardss that seem to have no life other than this forum. I post after work for the most part....but I digress. Here is a pic of me owning your dumb ass......sucks to be you about right now.

(snicker)

 

[LA RAM FAN]

He was a nutcase, and they had plenty of time to escape and they started the fire, its all on them. Wacko's with a pedophile leader and a storehouse of weapons.

Do you realize you're talking about twenty-one children, some as young as two?

Do you realize the feds knew the children were in there?

Do you realize the feds knew Koresh was fanatical and had vowed to set fire to the compound if the feds tried to break in?

she has indeed been spending wayyyyy too much time listening to the corporate controlled medias version of events of that day. which is VERY strange and puzzeling for her because unlike all these other stupid fucks that have defended the government version of event to no end,she almost always NEVER believes the corporate controlled media so it is odd that this tirme she did not look at the real facts and only went by what THEY said isnt it?

 

[Desperado]

Oh, I don't know, maybe they wanted to send a message.

And what message was that? The ATF and Fbi kill women and children so do as we say or die!

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Oh, I don't know, maybe they wanted to send a message.

And what message was th\at? The ATF and Fbi kill women and children so do as we say or die!

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Did anyone watch the WACO mini series on the Paramount (Spike) network?
To me it it made the Branch Davidians and David Koresh look like the victims of an out of control
federal law enforcement agents, specifically the ATF and the FBI.

Actually, it was very well balanced, showed several sides and did not blame "
an out of control federal law enforcement agents, specifically the ATF and the FBI." You want to see that so that's what you see.

For the most part, I would say the blame was with Koresh's suicidal actions. Witnesses said he killed himself, just as he had said he would. He said he wanted to be a martyr and he is - to RWNJs who want to hate Clinton/Reno/ATF and to fundies who are still worshiping Koresh.

I just hope their current leaders aren't still raping women and children.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Did anyone watch the WACO mini series on the Paramount (Spike) network?
To me it it made the Branch Davidians and David Koresh look like the victims of an out of control
federal law enforcement agents, specifically the ATF and the FBI.

Actually, it was very well balanced, showed several sides and did not blame "
an out of control federal law enforcement agents, specifically the ATF and the FBI." You want to see that so that's what you see.

For the most part, I would say the blame was with Koresh's suicidal actions. Witnesses said he killed himself, just as he had said he would. He said he wanted to be a martyr and he is - to RWNJs who want to hate Clinton/Reno/ATF and to fundies who are still worshiping Koresh.

I just hope their current leaders aren't still raping women and children.

there you go LYING as always.YOU are the one who wants to see that so thats what YOU see. current leaders raping? you mean like all the rapes Mr Clinton has done to women over the years,that raping? yes that kinda raping by our current leaders is something that better never happen in the white house again as it did under clinton,you are correct.

No jhe just doesnt troll that you have a LONG proven history here of same as Joe does and does not ignore the evidence that you wont look at that Clinton,Reno, the ATF,and FBI started the fires with no intent of trying to rescue the hostages.

 

[Lysistrata]

I see that the same folks are around to protect the "honor" of those who start gunfights, rape children (no male children were raped so it's okay; female children exist to be sexual meat), and set fires to burn themselves and their followers to death.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I see that the same folks are around to protect the "honor" of those who start gunfights, rape children (no male children were raped so it's okay; female children exist to be sexual meat), and set fires to burn themselves and their followers to death.

that would be YOU who keep protecting the government who start fires on innocent people shill.

you have fallen on your face flat and failed miserable to disprove this post below here.

And what message was that? The ATF and Fbi kill women and children so do as we say or die![/QUOTE]

 

[LA RAM FAN]

yeah shill lissy it IS funny you cant counter those facts and have to LIE in defeat.

 

[JoeB131]

that would be YOU who keep protecting the government who start fires on innocent people shill.

you have fallen on your face flat and failed miserable to disprove this post below here.

And what message was that? The ATF and Fbi kill women and children so do as we say or die!

Um, sorry, the Davidians started the fire because Koresh would rather die than go to prison and have them do what they do to Chomos there.

It's sad the deluded sheep in his cult let him rape and then murder their children... but kids brought up in a cult like that were going to be all sorts of fucked up... so not any great loss.

 

[gipper]

that would be YOU who keep protecting the government who start fires on innocent people shill.

you have fallen on your face flat and failed miserable to disprove this post below here.

And what message was that? The ATF and Fbi kill women and children so do as we say or die!

Um, sorry, the Davidians started the fire because Koresh would rather die than go to prison and have them do what they do to Chomos there.

It's sad the deluded sheep in his cult let him rape and then murder their children... but kids brought up in a cult like that were going to be all sorts of fucked up... so not any great loss.

The State is NEVER wrong...so think statists like Joe.

The government attacked and murdered these people. In a sane nation, this action should have brought down the government and resulted in the imprisonment of all involved.

I find it appalling that many Americans think the government blameless in this terrible atrocity. How is Waco different from what Hitler, Stalin, or Mao did? It is just not of the same magnitude, but very much alike.

 

[JoeB131]

The State is NEVER wrong...so think statists like Joe.

The government attacked and murdered these people. In a sane nation, this action should have brought down the government and resulted in the imprisonment of all involved.

In a sane nation, nobody wants Chomo Koresh living next store with his perversions and guns.

The only mistake the government made is trying to reason with these people.

I find it appalling that many Americans think the government blameless in this terrible atrocity. How is Waco different from what Hitler, Stalin, or Mao did? It is just not of the same magnitude, but very much alike.

Only if you are a crazy person.

So let's look at the sequence of events.

Koresh molests kids and sells guns illegally.
The ATF serves a valid warrant that Koresh knew was coming.
Koresh and his cultists shoot at them.
The FBI tries to talk them into surrendering for 43 days.
When it's clear they won't, they move in to arrest them.
They light themselves on fire and all die.

Again, the only thing the government did wrong was trying to reason with these people. People who let a creep fuck their kids can't be reasoned with.

 

[gipper]

The State is NEVER wrong...so think statists like Joe.

The government attacked and murdered these people. In a sane nation, this action should have brought down the government and resulted in the imprisonment of all involved.

In a sane nation, nobody wants Chomo Koresh living next store with his perversions and guns.

The only mistake the government made is trying to reason with these people.

I find it appalling that many Americans think the government blameless in this terrible atrocity. How is Waco different from what Hitler, Stalin, or Mao did? It is just not of the same magnitude, but very much alike.

Only if you are a crazy person.

So let's look at the sequence of events.

Koresh molests kids and sells guns illegally.
The ATF serves a valid warrant that Koresh knew was coming.
Koresh and his cultists shoot at them.
The FBI tries to talk them into surrendering for 43 days.
When it's clear they won't, they move in to arrest them.
They light themselves on fire and all die.

Again, the only thing the government did wrong was trying to reason with these people. People who let a creep fuck their kids can't be reasoned with.

Murder all those people because you consider ONE man a criminal.

The thinking of a murderous statist.

You are a Fascist....but don't even know it.
"Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state".

 

[JoeB131]

Murder all those people because you consider ONE man a criminal.

Um, no, all the adults were accessories if they were letting him molest their kids and helping him sell guns and resist arrest.

The thinking of a murderous statist.

You are a Fascist....but don't even know it.
"Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state".

Guy, it's always fun to watch you Libertarians denounce the state, but still enjoy all the benefits of civilization.

Unless you are living like the fucking Unabomber, cut off from technology and civilization, you are every bit as much a statist as I am.

I just don't feel the need to cry over Chomos who kill themselves.

 

[gipper]

Murder all those people because you consider ONE man a criminal.

Um, no, all the adults were accessories if they were letting him molest their kids and helping him sell guns and resist arrest.

The thinking of a murderous statist.

You are a Fascist....but don't even know it.
"Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state".

Guy, it's always fun to watch you Libertarians denounce the state, but still enjoy all the benefits of civilization.

Unless you are living like the fucking Unabomber, cut off from technology and civilization, you are every bit as much a statist as I am.

I just don't feel the need to cry over Chomos who kill themselves.

Kill the kids to save the kids.

Are you a psychopath?

 

[JoeB131]

Kill the kids to save the kids.

Are you a psychopath?

The government didn't kill those kids... Koresh did.

That was the finding of every investigation that looked into this.