Veganism and the Bible

[RodISHI]

No I ignore you and your ridiculous precepts, I ignore your confusion and your agenda based crap. That was done in an attempt to have mercy on you because you are one ignorant prideful deceitful little snot that does not know that the shit you are pushing is nasty and not in truth at all when it comes to knowing what will transpire or what has transpired when anyone stands in the presence of the throne of God. You talked about heaven but you haven't a clue. Have you been there? Have you actually stood in the presence of God? No you haven't but you sure do think you have a right to judge others and twist the Word to meet your agenda based crap.

You want to seek God then you better start examining yourself first. I care more what happens to the people that those animals feed than the animals. I never said anyone should be cruel to them or that they should not be care for in a humane manner while they are being raised to feed the people that I like to see fed.

I read my husband what you wrote and he was in full agreement with me "she's whacko" but he added some other words in that to describe you and told me to respond to you in such a manner but I declined and attempted to be as kind as possible instead but that isn't good enough for you.

People and animals again both eat meat. Too bad you don't like that but that is the way creation was created to be here in this world; and it will remain that away here in this world.

Take your carnal precepts and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. That means you have several choices of where to put them.

Buttercup is right. People do look for ways to proof-text scripture in order to conform to their unbiblical indulgences. Which is precisely what you did i nthe post she responded to.

Is that what makes you so mad? Because she said it?

Because she is talking out of her ass by her own carnal precepts while she is pushing an agenda. I covered that already but apparently you missed it too.

Eating meat is biblical. Meat in the spiritual realm has more sustenance in it than eating merely bread. In the earth realm meat has more protein than veggies therefore more life sustaining long term to those who need it. Like Jesus stated what goes in the mouth comes out through the belly and ends up as draught/shit. Jesus didn't try to pacify or indulge those with ignorance and I have no reason to either when someone is pushing an agenda that is full of error and confusion.

You want to be vegan by all means do so but if you try to push that as an agenda using the Bible I will call you on it if I so desire.

In ancient Israel it would have been almost impossible to be a vegan. People knew quite well that not eating the flesh animals or their by products would lead to weakness, sickness, and eventual death because they did not understand that their were alternatives that provide sufficient protein. Furthermore, they had no reason to do so. Global Warming, overpopulation, pollution, were concepts completely foreign to them.

People believe animals were on the earth to provide man with food and to help him survive. People kept pets but except for the very wealthy they had a purpose. Dogs provided protection and could be trained to assist the farmer. Cats helped control rodents.

Since animals were necessary just as air, water, and crops in the field, it was natural that they would be used in religious ceremonies, in stories, and parables.

Trying to use the Bible to justify eating of meat does not make any sense at all. Yes, the Israelites ate meat and animal products for a very good reason. They didn't know of another alternative and they did not understand why they should. Today there are plenty of alternatives and good reasons to avoid eating meat. However, that is not to say that people today should forced into a vegan diet; encouragement yes, but it should be an individual choice. The time will probably come when there will be no choice. Hopefully alternatives will taste a lot better than today.

You are free to choose your own diet preferences. Personally I don't care for the new scientifically altered foods and I still keep cats to keep the rodents down and dogs to defend the animals from varmints. Trying to justify any stance on what others personal choices are concerning their food falls into the category of giving heed seducing spirit and following of the doctrine of devils.

1 Timothy 4:1-3, KJV
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times

some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing

spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy;

having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to

marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God

hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which

believe and know the truth."

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

No I ignore you and your ridiculous precepts, I ignore your confusion and your agenda based crap. That was done in an attempt to have mercy on you because you are one ignorant prideful deceitful little snot that does not know that the shit you are pushing is nasty and not in truth at all when it comes to knowing what will transpire or what has transpired when anyone stands in the presence of the throne of God. You talked about heaven but you haven't a clue. Have you been there? Have you actually stood in the presence of God? No you haven't but you sure do think you have a right to judge others and twist the Word to meet your agenda based crap.

You want to seek God then you better start examining yourself first. I care more what happens to the people that those animals feed than the animals. I never said anyone should be cruel to them or that they should not be care for in a humane manner while they are being raised to feed the people that I like to see fed.

I read my husband what you wrote and he was in full agreement with me "she's whacko" but he added some other words in that to describe you and told me to respond to you in such a manner but I declined and attempted to be as kind as possible instead but that isn't good enough for you.

People and animals again both eat meat. Too bad you don't like that but that is the way creation was created to be here in this world; and it will remain that away here in this world.

Take your carnal precepts and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. That means you have several choices of where to put them.

Buttercup is right. People do look for ways to proof-text scripture in order to conform to their unbiblical indulgences. Which is precisely what you did i nthe post she responded to.

Is that what makes you so mad? Because she said it?

Because she is talking out of her ass by her own carnal precepts while she is pushing an agenda. I covered that already but apparently you missed it too.

Eating meat is biblical. Meat in the spiritual realm has more sustenance in it than eating merely bread. In the earth realm meat has more protein than veggies therefore more life sustaining long term to those who need it. Like Jesus stated what goes in the mouth comes out through the belly and ends up as draught/shit. Jesus didn't try to pacify or indulge those with ignorance and I have no reason to either when someone is pushing an agenda that is full of error and confusion.

You want to be vegan by all means do so but if you try to push that as an agenda using the Bible I will call you on it if I so desire.

In ancient Israel it would have been almost impossible to be a vegan. People knew quite well that not eating the flesh animals or their by products would lead to weakness, sickness, and eventual death because they did not understand that their were alternatives that provide sufficient protein. Furthermore, they had no reason to do so. Global Warming, overpopulation, pollution, were concepts completely foreign to them.

People believe animals were on the earth to provide man with food and to help him survive. People kept pets but except for the very wealthy they had a purpose. Dogs provided protection and could be trained to assist the farmer. Cats helped control rodents.

Since animals were necessary just as air, water, and crops in the field, it was natural that they would be used in religious ceremonies, in stories, and parables.

Trying to use the Bible to justify eating of meat does not make any sense at all. Yes, the Israelites ate meat and animal products for a very good reason. They didn't know of another alternative and they did not understand why they should. Today there are plenty of alternatives and good reasons to avoid eating meat. However, that is not to say that people today should forced into a vegan diet; encouragement yes, but it should be an individual choice. The time will probably come when there will be no choice. Hopefully alternatives will taste a lot better than today.

You are free to choose your own diet preferences. Personally I don't care for the new scientifically altered foods and I still keep cats to keep the rodents down and dogs to defend the animals from varmints. Trying to justify any stance on what others personal choices are concerning their food falls into the category of giving heed seducing spirit and following of the doctrine of devils.

1 Timothy 4:1-3, KJV
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times

some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing

spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy;

having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to

marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God

hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which

believe and know the truth."

The Scriptures you cited to justify your prejudice are not relevant to this discussion.

This is a discussion of one person's BELIEF. if you disagree you should be able to justify your beliefs thru the Scriptures. Those you've cited have nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

I respect a person's choice to live a vegan lifestyle and I wouldn't discourage anybody from living that lifestyle if they feel it strengthens their relationship with God, since really that is the most important thing, but for me, personally, I believe that it's fine either way. If you have respect for the animal that was sacrificed for your hunger, you give thanks, and you don't waste what was given then I personally believe that God would in turn respect that. We know that in the Bible Jesus ate fish and it could probably safely be assumed He ate other types of meat during His lifetime and so that should be considered too in my opinion.

 

[RodISHI]

2Timothy Chapter 3,16 to 17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Flopper]

What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it

To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!

Example

Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.

You are so full of shit and a hypocrite to boot. She is the one who claimed to have thought this all out and came to her conclusions; therefore she boasts on her own precepts not those written or inspire by a holy encounter. Those are her own words not mine dumbass.

Nope, that is untrue. I came to my conclusion based on both what I can see happening in this world with my own two eyes... AND in response to the totality of God's word and the message that as Christians we should be MERCIFUL, especially to the innocent and voiceless among us.

You assumed that it was only my own idea, but in reality it was a journey I was on that GOD started, even a few years before I went vegan. I used to have a horrible diet and was not concerned too much with my physical health. Eventually it got to the point where I felt God opening my eyes and showing me that He cares not only about our spiritual condition, but our physical health as well. That initial interest in getting healthier led me to discover the truly diabolical way that animals are treated, and the more I sought the truth and the more I sought God's heart on this issue, the more I realized that God is not pleased by our participation in needless exploitation, cruelty and killing of HIS animals, for our own selfish reasons. God wants us to be set apart, in other words instead of going along with what everyone else does, being more aware of the things we do, and whether or not they are in line with His perfect will.

This whole experience for me has not only brought me closer to God, but it has also given me a wider, greater love and appreciation for ALL of God's creation, not just humans. It has become the second best decision I ever made, second only to coming to Christ.

I'm a sometime vegetarian and other times a real carnivore. Yet, I salute on your decision to avoid eating animals and animal products as long as you maintain a healthy diet. However, I do not approve of everyone becoming a Vegan today, particular teens and younger children.

Some parents encourage their children to be vegans. This can be dangerous. Children and teens need a high protein diet and it's a real challenge for children who live in a world of hamburgers, pizzas, and junk food which is being pushed in front of them at school, at friends houses, and just about every social event, and holiday. This can often lead to eating disorders such bulimia and anorexia which often result in a life of misery and early death. About half (45 to 54 percent) of patients seeking treatment for anorexia reported practicing some form of vegetarian diet. I watched my beautiful 27 year old grand daughter literally starve herself to death. I really believe her parents encouraging her into a restrictive diet which was not shared by her peers is at least partly responsible.

 

[buttercup]

I respect a person's choice to live a vegan lifestyle and I wouldn't discourage anybody from living that lifestyle if they feel it strengthens their relationship with God, since really that is the most important thing, but for me, personally, I believe that it's fine either way. If you have respect for the animal that was sacrificed for your hunger, you give thanks, and you don't waste what was given then I personally believe that God would in turn respect that. We know that in the Bible Jesus ate fish and it could probably safely be assumed He ate other types of meat during His lifetime and so that should be considered too in my opinion.

Can you explain what "having respect for the animal" means to you? The reality is that no animal willingly "sacrifices" his life for us. They are terrified, and they do NOT want to die. That is very clear when you look at slaughterhouse footage. They fight til the end. They do NOT want to be stabbed in the throat, hung upside-down, dismembered and brutally slaughtered, not to mention forced into a lifetime of misery and suffering.

Having respect for the life of another means respecting their will to live. ESPECIALLY when their death is completely unnecessary, it's only for our own selfish desires.

Here is a glimpse of what they go through. Please watch it and then please let me know if you still think God is fine with that.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it

To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!

Example

Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.

You are so full of shit and a hypocrite to boot. She is the one who claimed to have thought this all out and came to her conclusions; therefore she boasts on her own precepts not those written or inspire by a holy encounter. Those are her own words not mine dumbass.

Nope, that is untrue. I came to my conclusion based on both what I can see happening in this world with my own two eyes... AND in response to the totality of God's word and the message that as Christians we should be MERCIFUL, especially to the innocent and voiceless among us.

You assumed that it was only my own idea, but in reality it was a journey I was on that GOD started, even a few years before I went vegan. I used to have a horrible diet and was not concerned too much with my physical health. Eventually it got to the point where I felt God opening my eyes and showing me that He cares not only about our spiritual condition, but our physical health as well. That initial interest in getting healthier led me to discover the truly diabolical way that animals are treated, and the more I sought the truth and the more I sought God's heart on this issue, the more I realized that God is not pleased by our participation in needless exploitation, cruelty and killing of HIS animals, for our own selfish reasons. God wants us to be set apart, in other words instead of going along with what everyone else does, being more aware of the things we do, and whether or not they are in line with His perfect will.

This whole experience for me has not only brought me closer to God, but it has also given me a wider, greater love and appreciation for ALL of God's creation, not just humans. It has become the second best decision I ever made, second only to coming to Christ.

I'm a sometime vegetarian and other times a real carnivore. Yet, I salute on your decision to avoid eating animals and animal products as long as you maintain a healthy diet. However, I do not approve of everyone becoming a Vegan today, particular teens and younger children.

Some parents encourage their children to be vegans. This can be dangerous. Children and teens need a high protein diet and it's a real challenge for children who live in a world of hamburgers, pizzas, and junk food which is being pushed in front of them at school, at friends houses, and just about every social event, and holiday. This can often lead to eating disorders such bulimia and anorexia which often result in a life of misery and early death. About half (45 to 54 percent) of patients seeking treatment for anorexia reported practicing some form of vegetarian diet. I watched my beautiful 27 year old grand daughter literally starve herself to death. I really believe her parents encouraging her into a restrictive diet which was not shared by her peers is at least partly responsible.

Poor diets are a problem for anybody.

Do THIS experiment. Try, for 30 days, to eat what most nutritionists preach. I bet you can't do it.

The poor diet you describe, hamburgers, pizza, cheetos, chips and whatever else is a typical MEAT EATERS diet.

Really TRY to eat what they recommend. Like I said before, you can eat ALL YOU WANT, without counting calories, if you eat a natural foods diet, NOT INCLUDING MEAT, and you won't believe the results.

Until you actually TRY, you'll never really understand what I'm talking about

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Can you explain what "having respect for the animal" means to you?

Thank you. I saw that too and thought, "WTH!"

I wonder if she'd think I stabbed her dog or cat with "respect." Kinda funny, but it's not.

 

[buttercup]

What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it

To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!

Example

Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.

You are so full of shit and a hypocrite to boot. She is the one who claimed to have thought this all out and came to her conclusions; therefore she boasts on her own precepts not those written or inspire by a holy encounter. Those are her own words not mine dumbass.

Nope, that is untrue. I came to my conclusion based on both what I can see happening in this world with my own two eyes... AND in response to the totality of God's word and the message that as Christians we should be MERCIFUL, especially to the innocent and voiceless among us.

You assumed that it was only my own idea, but in reality it was a journey I was on that GOD started, even a few years before I went vegan. I used to have a horrible diet and was not concerned too much with my physical health. Eventually it got to the point where I felt God opening my eyes and showing me that He cares not only about our spiritual condition, but our physical health as well. That initial interest in getting healthier led me to discover the truly diabolical way that animals are treated, and the more I sought the truth and the more I sought God's heart on this issue, the more I realized that God is not pleased by our participation in needless exploitation, cruelty and killing of HIS animals, for our own selfish reasons. God wants us to be set apart, in other words instead of going along with what everyone else does, being more aware of the things we do, and whether or not they are in line with His perfect will.

This whole experience for me has not only brought me closer to God, but it has also given me a wider, greater love and appreciation for ALL of God's creation, not just humans. It has become the second best decision I ever made, second only to coming to Christ.

I'm a sometime vegetarian and other times a real carnivore. Yet, I salute on your decision to avoid eating animals and animal products as long as you maintain a healthy diet. However, I do not approve of everyone becoming a Vegan today, particular teens and younger children.

Some parents encourage their children to be vegans. This can be dangerous. Children and teens need a high protein diet and it's a real challenge for children who live in a world of hamburgers, pizzas, and junk food which is being pushed in front of them at school, at friends houses, and just about every social event, and holiday. This can often lead to eating disorders such bulimia and anorexia which often result in a life of misery and early death. About half (45 to 54 percent) of patients seeking treatment for anorexia reported practicing some form of vegetarian diet. I watched my beautiful 27 year old grand daughter literally starve herself to death. I really believe her parents encouraging her into a restrictive diet which was not shared by her peers is at least partly responsible.

First, thank you for your civil replies. Respectfully, the claim that veganism is not safe for children or teens is one of the lies we've been indoctrinated into believing. It is simply not true. There are TONS of families who raise their kids vegan, and their kids are healthy and happy. Of course, not every plantbased diet is the same. Technically, one could eat only sour patch kids (candy) all day and still be "vegan" because they do not contain animal ingredients. But obviously that wouldn't be healthy. A balanced, whole-foods plantbased diet IS healthy and in fact puts one at a lower risk for a number of diseases.

Here are some statements for you to read:

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.

https://jandonline.org/article/S2212...192-3/fulltext


Harvard Medical School

Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.


The Mayo Clinic

A well-planned vegetarian diet can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.


Dietitians of Canada

A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.


British Dietetic Association

Well planned vegetarian diets (see context) can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.


The British National Health Service

With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.


The Dietitians Association of Australia

Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​

 

[Flopper]

Trying to use the Bible to justify eating of meat does not make any sense at all

I think you mean the exact opposite, but your statement is true. People here ARE trying to use the Bible to justify meat eating.

Have you ever read the account of Daniel regarding a plant based diet vs the rich foods of the royalty?

In Israel, the falafel is their version of our greasy hamburger. Theirs is much healthier

I don't believe you can use the Bible to justify eating or not eating animals and animal products. People ate animals and animal products because they did know of an alternative and had no reason to look for one.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Another myth is that you need a meat based diet to get enough protein. That's nonsense.

This guy sure looks malnourished

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

As a Christian, and a vegan, I have put a lot of thought into this. I can honestly say that based on everything that I have seen, researched and learned, I firmly believe that Christians should be vegan. And not only that, but we should be leading the way! That of course is not happening right now, and I think there are a few reasons for that. I think it boils down to mainly two things: misunderstanding certain important biblical teachings, and also, a sort of a collective blindness among Christians on this particular issue. I was included in that, so I get it. I have always loved animals, my whole life, but at the same time I loved eating meat and I even said on more than one occasion, "I could NEVER be a vegan or vegetarian." A few years before I went vegan, I began to wonder about the incongruity of loving animals and opposing the mistreatment of animals, yet eating meat. I even wrote a short blog post about that, which was me sort of thinking out loud, and beginning to question whether or not one can be an animal lover yet eat meat. The very fact that the answer wasn't obvious to me SHOWS that blindness I mentioned earlier.

I look at it this way. Think of a scale. As a Christian, when you look at all the reasons to eat meat and use animal products on one side.... and all the reasons NOT to on the other side, the reasons not to overwhelmingly outweigh anything on the other side, so much so that one would have to either be a hypocrite or willfully blind to continue on using animals for our own selfish reasons.

That last line says it all.

I'm no Bible thumper....but it seems apparent that the love of self and self fulfillment has FAR over reached the Love of God for far too many.
The act of killing gives great joy to many, although they deny it and rationalize it with 1000 excuses of how they're actually better than thou for doing so.
Sacrifice and blood lust are covens of the wicked and evil.

Truth is, it seems savagery and blood lust along with it animal abuse is on the rise in direct proportion to the tide of people turning their backs on religion and especially Christianity. Coincidence?

I'm grateful that Congress passed, and Mr. Trump signed into law much stiffer penalties for animal abuse. It was desperately needed. Lock em UP !

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

As a Christian, and a vegan, I have put a lot of thought into this. I can honestly say that based on everything that I have seen, researched and learned, I firmly believe that Christians should be vegan. And not only that, but we should be leading the way! That of course is not happening right now, and I think there are a few reasons for that. I think it boils down to mainly two things: misunderstanding certain important biblical teachings, and also, a sort of a collective blindness among Christians on this particular issue. I was included in that, so I get it. I have always loved animals, my whole life, but at the same time I loved eating meat and I even said on more than one occasion, "I could NEVER be a vegan or vegetarian." A few years before I went vegan, I began to wonder about the incongruity of loving animals and opposing the mistreatment of animals, yet eating meat. I even wrote a short blog post about that, which was me sort of thinking out loud, and beginning to question whether or not one can be an animal lover yet eat meat. The very fact that the answer wasn't obvious to me SHOWS that blindness I mentioned earlier.

I look at it this way. Think of a scale. As a Christian, when you look at all the reasons to eat meat and use animal products on one side.... and all the reasons NOT to on the other side, the reasons not to overwhelmingly outweigh anything on the other side, so much so that one would have to either be a hypocrite or willfully blind to continue on using animals for our own selfish reasons.

That last line says it all.

I'm no Bible thumper....but it seems apparent that the love of self and self fulfillment has FAR over reached the Love of God for far too many.
The act of killing gives great joy to many, although they deny it and rationalize it with 1000 excuses of how they're actually better than thou for doing so.
Sacrifice and blood lust are covens of the wicked and evil.

Truth is, it seems savagery and blood lust along with it animal abuse is on the rise in direct proportion to the tide of people turning their backs on religion and especially Christianity. Coincidence?

I'm grateful that Congress passed, and Mr. Trump signed into law much stiffer penalties for animal abuse. It was desperately needed. Lock em UP !

Well said!

I LEAN vegan, but am not fully. My reasons are not primarily Biblical. I have mixed feelings on that, but I do NOT have mixed feelings on animal cruelty, but primarily my main reason for leaning this way is my own health. So i LAUGH when people ignorantly lecture us on how "unhealthy" a plant centered diet is.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Another myth is that you need a meat based diet to get enough protein. That's nonsense.
This guy sure looks malnourished

Of the people I know, vegans are significantly stronger pound for pound.
Not exactly sure why....but generally carnivores probably have a higher ratio of fat in their bodies.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

About half (45 to 54 percent) of patients seeking treatment for anorexia reported practicing some form of vegetarian diet. .

I don't believe this at all.
Please post links to evidence supporting this claim.

 

[Flopper]

What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it

To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!

Example

Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.

You are so full of shit and a hypocrite to boot. She is the one who claimed to have thought this all out and came to her conclusions; therefore she boasts on her own precepts not those written or inspire by a holy encounter. Those are her own words not mine dumbass.

Nope, that is untrue. I came to my conclusion based on both what I can see happening in this world with my own two eyes... AND in response to the totality of God's word and the message that as Christians we should be MERCIFUL, especially to the innocent and voiceless among us.

You assumed that it was only my own idea, but in reality it was a journey I was on that GOD started, even a few years before I went vegan. I used to have a horrible diet and was not concerned too much with my physical health. Eventually it got to the point where I felt God opening my eyes and showing me that He cares not only about our spiritual condition, but our physical health as well. That initial interest in getting healthier led me to discover the truly diabolical way that animals are treated, and the more I sought the truth and the more I sought God's heart on this issue, the more I realized that God is not pleased by our participation in needless exploitation, cruelty and killing of HIS animals, for our own selfish reasons. God wants us to be set apart, in other words instead of going along with what everyone else does, being more aware of the things we do, and whether or not they are in line with His perfect will.

This whole experience for me has not only brought me closer to God, but it has also given me a wider, greater love and appreciation for ALL of God's creation, not just humans. It has become the second best decision I ever made, second only to coming to Christ.

I'm a sometime vegetarian and other times a real carnivore. Yet, I salute on your decision to avoid eating animals and animal products as long as you maintain a healthy diet. However, I do not approve of everyone becoming a Vegan today, particular teens and younger children.

Some parents encourage their children to be vegans. This can be dangerous. Children and teens need a high protein diet and it's a real challenge for children who live in a world of hamburgers, pizzas, and junk food which is being pushed in front of them at school, at friends houses, and just about every social event, and holiday. This can often lead to eating disorders such bulimia and anorexia which often result in a life of misery and early death. About half (45 to 54 percent) of patients seeking treatment for anorexia reported practicing some form of vegetarian diet. I watched my beautiful 27 year old grand daughter literally starve herself to death. I really believe her parents encouraging her into a restrictive diet which was not shared by her peers is at least partly responsible.

First, thank you for your civil replies. Respectfully, the claim that veganism is not safe for children or teens is one of the lies we've been indoctrinated into believing. It is simply not true. There are TONS of families who raise their kids vegan, and their kids are healthy and happy. Of course, not every plantbased diet is the same. Technically, one could eat only sour patch kids (candy) all day and still be "vegan" because they do not contain animal ingredients. But obviously that wouldn't be healthy. A balanced, whole-foods plantbased diet IS healthy and in fact puts one at a lower risk for a number of diseases.

Here are some statements for you to read:

Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity.

https://jandonline.org/article/S2212...192-3/fulltext


Harvard Medical School

Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.


The Mayo Clinic

A well-planned vegetarian diet can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.


Dietitians of Canada

A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults.


British Dietetic Association

Well planned vegetarian diets (see context) can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, contain fewer calories and more fiber and phytonutrients/phytochemicals (these can have protective properties) than non-vegetarian diets. (...) Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of life and have many benefits.


The British National Health Service

With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.


The Dietitians Association of Australia

Vegan diets differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.​

Is it possible for parents to raise their kids on a healthy vegan diet? Of course it is and it can be a great decision to do so. The problem occurs when parents are not particular committed to it as is often the case. Dad is not abogive up his steak out r Sunday morning omelettes , Mom loves her Italian dishes with that rich cheese sauce. The kids are not going to give up their hamburgers and french fries and the whole family loves ice cream, particular rich homemade ice cream.

Sue, their 16 year old announces she going to become a Vegan. A couple of her friends have read all about it on the Internet and decide they're going to do it. It will help save the planet, those poor little animals and they will look so luscious after they lose some weight. The parents see this as just a fad and ignore it. Sue usually misses dinner and just eats a little salad, and vegan carry out at lunch.

Turn the clock forward, and Sue is 20. She's in college with 2 roommates all vegans or vegetarians. Sue has a lot of classes and has to work, she has no time to fix those health vegan meals so she snacks on nuts, vegetables and vegan treats she get's at the university store. When she is not in class she sleeps because she has little energy. She knows she needs to eat more but what she needs is not handy. She goes without food for as much as two days then goes on a binge followed by vomiting. After 4 years without eating milk products, she has become Lactose intolerant. Eating any milk product makes her sick. Her thyroid levels are all over the place. Her doctor suspects several diseases but she doesn't want to hear about it so she does nothing. She can not stand to be around people eating meat. The idea makes her sick. At age 25 she's only weights about 85 lbs and is extremely thin and she is Bulimic. She thinks she has a beautiful figure but she claims she needs to watch her diet. She is proud of her sacrifices to save the planet. Sue was my oldest granddaughter she died 3 years later. Being vegan did not cause the disease but certainly made it worse.

 

[Flopper]

As a Christian, and a vegan, I have put a lot of thought into this. I can honestly say that based on everything that I have seen, researched and learned, I firmly believe that Christians should be vegan. And not only that, but we should be leading the way! That of course is not happening right now, and I think there are a few reasons for that. I think it boils down to mainly two things: misunderstanding certain important biblical teachings, and also, a sort of a collective blindness among Christians on this particular issue. I was included in that, so I get it. I have always loved animals, my whole life, but at the same time I loved eating meat and I even said on more than one occasion, "I could NEVER be a vegan or vegetarian." A few years before I went vegan, I began to wonder about the incongruity of loving animals and opposing the mistreatment of animals, yet eating meat. I even wrote a short blog post about that, which was me sort of thinking out loud, and beginning to question whether or not one can be an animal lover yet eat meat. The very fact that the answer wasn't obvious to me SHOWS that blindness I mentioned earlier.

I look at it this way. Think of a scale. As a Christian, when you look at all the reasons to eat meat and use animal products on one side.... and all the reasons NOT to on the other side, the reasons not to overwhelmingly outweigh anything on the other side, so much so that one would have to either be a hypocrite or willfully blind to continue on using animals for our own selfish reasons.

That last line says it all.

I'm no Bible thumper....but it seems apparent that the love of self and self fulfillment has FAR over reached the Love of God for far too many.
The act of killing gives great joy to many, although they deny it and rationalize it with 1000 excuses of how they're actually better than thou for doing so.
Sacrifice and blood lust are covens of the wicked and evil.

Truth is, it seems savagery and blood lust along with it animal abuse is on the rise in direct proportion to the tide of people turning their backs on religion and especially Christianity. Coincidence?

I'm grateful that Congress passed, and Mr. Trump signed into law much stiffer penalties for animal abuse. It was desperately needed. Lock em UP !

Well said!

I LEAN vegan, but am not fully. My reasons are not primarily Biblical. I have mixed feelings on that, but I do NOT have mixed feelings on animal cruelty, but primarily my main reason for leaning this way is my own health. So i LAUGH when people ignorantly lecture us on how "unhealthy" a plant centered diet is.

What a lot of people don't realize is that just changing your diet to cut down on animal products can make a huge difference in the world if everyone did it. I believe in moderation in all things—in food and in drink as well as in speech.

 

[Andylusion]

In Genesis, God only allowed Adam and Eve to eat meat after the fall of man, prior to that, he offered them only the fruits of the trees.

Some have used this as a Christian case for veganism - what are your thoughts?

I don't know if G-d prevented Adam and Eve from eating meat. That's possible. I think when everything was first created, that Adam and Eve didn't even know what death was. So I don't know that it would ever have occurred to them to kill something, burn it on a fire, and try and eat it.

Even after the fall, it says that Cain was a Shepard, but that does not necessarily mean eating meat. If you Shepard sheep, it could be just to get wool. Remember the only needed wool after the fall, because before they were just naked (bow chica bow bow). After the fall they needed clothes, and wool has always been a standard for warm clothing.

So I don't know when or why eating meat became a thing.

That said, clearly there is nothing in the Bible about being vegan. Nothing. No place does it say, people should only eat vegies. The closest thing in the New Testament, would be where Paul wrote about meat offered to idols. The problem there wasn't the meat, but the idols. Nothing talks about avoiding meat.

Jesus himself, was eating fish, which is detailed clearly.

However, we also know that Jesus did in fact celebrate the pass-over, which is (or was at that time) typically lamb.

So while it doesn't say specifically that Jesus ate meat beyond just fish, it is highly likely.

Now fast forward to today.

There are some Christian sects that push veganism. Fine. Be a vegan. However, that is not a fundamental Biblical doctrine, and no Christian has any business pushing others to be vegan. I'm not going to argue against it either. It's not a Biblical doctrine.

If you want to, then go for it. If not, then don't. It's not a doctrinal issue either way.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

There are some Christian sects that push veganism. Fine. Be a vegan. However, that is not a fundamental Biblical doctrine, and no Christian has any business pushing others to be vegan

Now REVERSE your statement here. Makes just as much sense. Other than that, I pretty much agree

 

[Grace Is Stoked]

I respect a person's choice to live a vegan lifestyle and I wouldn't discourage anybody from living that lifestyle if they feel it strengthens their relationship with God, since really that is the most important thing, but for me, personally, I believe that it's fine either way. If you have respect for the animal that was sacrificed for your hunger, you give thanks, and you don't waste what was given then I personally believe that God would in turn respect that. We know that in the Bible Jesus ate fish and it could probably safely be assumed He ate other types of meat during His lifetime and so that should be considered too in my opinion.

Can you explain what "having respect for the animal" means to you? The reality is that no animal willingly "sacrifices" his life for us. They are terrified, and they do NOT want to die. That is very clear when you look at slaughterhouse footage. They fight til the end. They do NOT want to be stabbed in the throat, hung upside-down, dismembered and brutally slaughtered, not to mention forced into a lifetime of misery and suffering.

Having respect for the life of another means respecting their will to live. ESPECIALLY when their death is completely unnecessary, it's only for our own selfish desires.

Here is a glimpse of what they go through. Please watch it and then please let me know if you still think God is fine with that.

To me, having respect for the animal is what I mentioned in my original comments which was that you should give thanks to God and to the animal for the nourishment that it will provide for your body and that the food should not be wasted. Please also keep in mind that I haven't endorsed factory farming or the excess of food production that happens around the world. My point was based around giving proper respect for the animal you are about to consume, not to take its death for granted, and also that animal husbandry and meat consumption is prevalent in the Bible and was part of Jesus's life as well (not factory farming of course but domesticated livestock, fishing, and basic agrarian style of living which included animals was a common practice then as well).

For historical perspective up until only about the last century most food consumption around most of the world was strictly seasonal which also included how livestock and wild animals were harvested and utilized. Different times of the year you would only eat the fruits, vegetables, and grains that were in season and that also meant certain times of the year animals were included in that as livestock grew old or lost their usage for things like milk they would then be slaughtered for meat consumption by the farmer or going into the winter there would be meat stored. That of course still happens today as well but just not on the local scale it once did. The big difference between today and the centuries that have past is the availability of nearly all foods all year and the ease around it which unfortunately gave rise to factory farms and the disconnection between people and their food. I completely agree that many of the practices of factory farming is very sad and unnecessary, and I am an advocate of their being less meat consumption overall and more of a focus around self sustainment and simplicity.

For me personally we (meaning my husband and I) do eat meat probably one or two days per week but the meat, like beef or chicken, that we get is typically only coming from a friend that has what I guess what would be considered a micro-farm that is about two miles down the road from our home. We know the source, we know the owner, and we know that the meat is only harvested like that when necessary and we stock up and use it sparingly. We do have chickens and so we do use the eggs for our own consumption or we trade the eggs for other things like honey or vegetables that we don't grow ourselves with people that we know. If one of our chickens stops producing and is nearing the end of its life or is injuring other chickens then we will harvest that chicken for our consumption. For us we see that lifestyle as respectful and not wasteful or cruel. It goes back to early days of simple living in my opinion and resembles a possible connection with how Jesus would have potentially lived as well as his followers.

I hope this helps clarify.