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The vegans are here to make sure you make the right choice by law if they get the chance.
Actually, it was after the flood, not the fall, when the diet of man changed. The flood was many centuries later, so for a very long time humans ate a plant-based diet.
Another factor (which is a controversial and complex topic, and probably too much for this thread) is the fallen angels and the Nephlim (giants) as written about in Genesis 6. According to the book of Enoch, flesh eating originated with them. Which basically means that flesh eating has a demonic origin. It is possible that there was flesh eating before the flood, because of the chaos and violence that existed in the world at that time. But at that time it was not allowed by God, not until after the FLOOD. And even that - at least in the way it's understood currently - is debatable, but that is another topic.
Yes, He TOLERATED/allowed meat.In Genesis, before the fall of man, God only mentioned the fruit of the trees.Where does it say THAT!In Genesis, God only allowed Adam and Eve to eat meat after the fall of man
After the fall, he offered them meat.
I understand your position and have no problem with you pushing your agenda to be kinder to animals in mass slaughterhouses but I do have a problem with you attempting to allude that anyone not with you agenda will be in bad graces with the creator and you attempting to twist the Word to meet with your personal precepts. I have no intention of wasting my time reading back through all of your post in this thread and the others as I have already stated to you where your errors are. If you want to fight animal cruelty then feel free to do so but don't for one many think you'll be putting anyone on the spot in front of God other than yourself.Your own words in your posts throughout give you away as an accuser and a self appointed judge of others; and the Words of Jesus Christ already prove the precepts you are pushing are in error. The blind cannot see or hear. Perhaps you should pray for help since you have an ability to comprehend what I have already posted on this matter. Heaven isn't about what one is eating or drinking to sustain the flesh. You seehave salvation, entering into the kingdom and judgment all mixed up in your confused mind and apparently you must not read through voluminous words that you yourself posted.
Your tactic here (continually being vague and not addressing specific statements) is clever, but dishonest. Please point out where I said that this topic has to do with salvation. Please point out where I said who is or isn't going to heaven.
I'lll wait.
Your claims are pure ignorant at best while feigning to be a victim of harsh reprimand after you were already warned by not only me but others in manners as gentle as possible. You were already refuted but you have either totally ignored that or are fully blinded in your quest to push an agenda. Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.
Which claims? Be specific. You are continually vague and you continually fail to address anything I have said, in a clear specific way.
You already showed that you don't even understand my position, so it's no wonder you think you've refuted anything, as you've created a huge strawman in your mind.
It would be nice to have an actual discussion, where you address what I actually said, and show how it is wrong, instead of continually posting misrepresentations and false accusations that you concocted in your head.
Interesting, and a little long, article on the fallen angels and their "gifts" to Man.In Genesis, before the fall of man, God only mentioned the fruit of the trees.Where does it say THAT!In Genesis, God only allowed Adam and Eve to eat meat after the fall of man
After the fall, he offered them meat.
Actually, it was after the flood, not the fall, when the diet of man changed. The flood was many centuries later, so for a very long time humans ate a plant-based diet.
Another factor (which is a controversial and complex topic, and probably too much for this thread) is the fallen angels and the Nephlim (giants) as written about in Genesis 6. According to the book of Enoch, flesh eating originated with them. Which basically means that flesh eating has a demonic origin. It is possible that there was flesh eating before the flood, because of the chaos and violence that existed in the world at that time. But at that time it was not allowed by God, not until after the FLOOD. And even that - at least in the way it's understood currently - is debatable, but that is another topic.
The sacrifices were to point to Christ.Actually, it was after the flood, not the fall, when the diet of man changed. The flood was many centuries later, so for a very long time humans ate a plant-based diet.
Another factor (which is a controversial and complex topic, and probably too much for this thread) is the fallen angels and the Nephlim (giants) as written about in Genesis 6. According to the book of Enoch, flesh eating originated with them. Which basically means that flesh eating has a demonic origin. It is possible that there was flesh eating before the flood, because of the chaos and violence that existed in the world at that time. But at that time it was not allowed by God, not until after the FLOOD. And even that - at least in the way it's understood currently - is debatable, but that is another topic.
Genesis 4:1-5
- And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
- And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
- And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
- And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
- But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
It doesn't say that Abel ate his sheep, but he offered the firstlings of his flock as sacrifices to God, as God's people did throughout the Old Testament. That almost certainly means that he killed each sheep that was offered as a sacrifice, and probably ate the meat thereof, and/or shared it with his family.
In fact, just as easily as you've forced your interpretations on the Bible, and just as valid, I could point out that of the two brothers, it was the one who was apparently a vegetarian, who turned out to be evil.
To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it
Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.
Pot, meet KettleGood vegan Christians MUST impose their religion on everyone else. As a human being you have a CHOICE. The vegans are here to make sure you make the right choice by law if they get the chance.
You are so full of shit and a hypocrite to boot. She is the one who claimed to have thought this all out and came to her conclusions; therefore she boasts on her own precepts not those written or inspire by a holy encounter. Those are her own words not mine dumbass.To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it
Example
Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.
Why is the sacrifice "funny" to you Bob? Can't debate it?The sacrifices were to point to Christ.Actually, it was after the flood, not the fall, when the diet of man changed. The flood was many centuries later, so for a very long time humans ate a plant-based diet.
Another factor (which is a controversial and complex topic, and probably too much for this thread) is the fallen angels and the Nephlim (giants) as written about in Genesis 6. According to the book of Enoch, flesh eating originated with them. Which basically means that flesh eating has a demonic origin. It is possible that there was flesh eating before the flood, because of the chaos and violence that existed in the world at that time. But at that time it was not allowed by God, not until after the FLOOD. And even that - at least in the way it's understood currently - is debatable, but that is another topic.
Genesis 4:1-5
- And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
- And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
- And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
- And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
- But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
It doesn't say that Abel ate his sheep, but he offered the firstlings of his flock as sacrifices to God, as God's people did throughout the Old Testament. That almost certainly means that he killed each sheep that was offered as a sacrifice, and probably ate the meat thereof, and/or shared it with his family.
In fact, just as easily as you've forced your interpretations on the Bible, and just as valid, I could point out that of the two brothers, it was the one who was apparently a vegetarian, who turned out to be evil.
It SHOULD hurt to your core to kill an innocent animal, but God commanded this because He wants you to understand the significance of SIN -- that some innocent creature had to DIE because of your sin.
Today we take killing all too casually. We treat an innocent creature as if it were a crop of wheat.
When you justify meat eating by using the example of the sacrifice, you do God, and His creation a great disservice
Why is the sacrifice "funny" to you Bob? Can't debate it?
You are so full of shit and a hypocrite to boot. She is the one who claimed to have thought this all out and came to her conclusions; therefore she boasts on her own precepts not those written or inspire by a holy encounter. Those are her own words not mine dumbass.To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it
Example
Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.
You sure put a lot of stock in that "I" don't you?You are so full of shit and a hypocrite to boot. She is the one who claimed to have thought this all out and came to her conclusions; therefore she boasts on her own precepts not those written or inspire by a holy encounter. Those are her own words not mine dumbass.To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it
Example
Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.
Nope, that is untrue. I came to my conclusion based on both what I can see happening in this world with my own two eyes... AND in response to the totality of God's word and the message that as Christians we should be MERCIFUL, especially to the innocent and voiceless among us.
You assumed that it was only my own idea, but in reality it was a journey I was on that GOD started, even a few years before I went vegan. I used to have a horrible diet and was not concerned too much with my physical health. Eventually it got to the point where I felt God opening my eyes and showing me that He cares not only about our spiritual condition, but our physical health as well. That initial interest in getting healthier led me to discover the truly diabolical way that animals are treated, and the more I sought the truth and the more I sought God's heart on this issue, the more I realized that God is not pleased by our participation in needless exploitation, cruelty and killing of HIS animals, for our own selfish reasons. God wants us to be set apart, in other words instead of going along with what everyone else does, being more aware of the things we do, and whether or not they are in line with His perfect will.
This whole experience for me has not only brought me closer to God, but it has also given me a wider, greater love and appreciation for ALL of God's creation, not just humans. It has become the second best decision I ever made, second only to coming to Christ.
So you met a MAN who insisted you eat a dead cow, and that proves to us what?You sure put a lot of stock in that "I" don't you?You are so full of shit and a hypocrite to boot. She is the one who claimed to have thought this all out and came to her conclusions; therefore she boasts on her own precepts not those written or inspire by a holy encounter. Those are her own words not mine dumbass.To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it
Example
Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.
Nope, that is untrue. I came to my conclusion based on both what I can see happening in this world with my own two eyes... AND in response to the totality of God's word and the message that as Christians we should be MERCIFUL, especially to the innocent and voiceless among us.
You assumed that it was only my own idea, but in reality it was a journey I was on that GOD started, even a few years before I went vegan. I used to have a horrible diet and was not concerned too much with my physical health. Eventually it got to the point where I felt God opening my eyes and showing me that He cares not only about our spiritual condition, but our physical health as well. That initial interest in getting healthier led me to discover the truly diabolical way that animals are treated, and the more I sought the truth and the more I sought God's heart on this issue, the more I realized that God is not pleased by our participation in needless exploitation, cruelty and killing of HIS animals, for our own selfish reasons. God wants us to be set apart, in other words instead of going along with what everyone else does, being more aware of the things we do, and whether or not they are in line with His perfect will.
This whole experience for me has not only brought me closer to God, but it has also given me a wider, greater love and appreciation for ALL of God's creation, not just humans. It has become the second best decision I ever made, second only to coming to Christ.
Let me do an "I" for you will know and understand why I know beyond a doubt you pushing others to become vegans because you needed to for yourself. My children and I were recused from a very terrible and dangerous situation forty years ago by an angel sent by God. I did not know he was an angel of the lord until twenty years later. I simply thought he was a white knight sent to recuse the children and I for that moment in time. He had asked if he could take the children and I to dinner. I declined to begin with because I thought as a carnal being. I was certain that this person was way too good for me; not knowing or understanding fully what was transpiring at the time. The short of that long story is he did take the children and I to dinner after he rescued us. I was simply going to have a salad for dinner and he insisted that "mom should have a big steak" and the children agreed with him. In that alone without all the scripture and translations that I have already or others have already informed you about I know you are full of crap as you attempt to twist your precepts on others. Now if you want to fight animal cruelty by all means do so but if you make claims that people are not supposed to eat meat because it is just so cruel etc. implying that they are unchristian, complicit with the current state of affairs in the meat marketing, imply that they will be accountable for eating available food when they stand before God or allude to any precept that they are going against the Word of God (which you have been doing) I will call you out as having a spirit of error and will continue to let anyone else know that may be buying into your mass confusion that you have a Babylonian spirit about you.
Not seeking to prove anything to you. Buttercup gave her little testimony and I retorted with a portion of mine. You are free to remain in your ignorant blind judgmental accusatory state.So you met a MAN who insisted you eat a dead cow, and that proves to us what?You sure put a lot of stock in that "I" don't you?You are so full of shit and a hypocrite to boot. She is the one who claimed to have thought this all out and came to her conclusions; therefore she boasts on her own precepts not those written or inspire by a holy encounter. Those are her own words not mine dumbass.To be honest, she is using a bullying tactic. People, including Christians, can have legitimate disagreements and should be willing to either discuss or ignore the topic. Her approach seems to be to tell you to STFU!What are you even talking about? I never said anything about who will go to heaven or won't. That is a blatantly false accusation. I said that if you are planning to go to heaven, then it's probably a good idea to be prepared for it
Example
Quit speaking for God as if you are chosen to do so in your self appointed judgeship when you have already admitted you are speaking from your own thought processes and erroneous precepts.
Nope, that is untrue. I came to my conclusion based on both what I can see happening in this world with my own two eyes... AND in response to the totality of God's word and the message that as Christians we should be MERCIFUL, especially to the innocent and voiceless among us.
You assumed that it was only my own idea, but in reality it was a journey I was on that GOD started, even a few years before I went vegan. I used to have a horrible diet and was not concerned too much with my physical health. Eventually it got to the point where I felt God opening my eyes and showing me that He cares not only about our spiritual condition, but our physical health as well. That initial interest in getting healthier led me to discover the truly diabolical way that animals are treated, and the more I sought the truth and the more I sought God's heart on this issue, the more I realized that God is not pleased by our participation in needless exploitation, cruelty and killing of HIS animals, for our own selfish reasons. God wants us to be set apart, in other words instead of going along with what everyone else does, being more aware of the things we do, and whether or not they are in line with His perfect will.
This whole experience for me has not only brought me closer to God, but it has also given me a wider, greater love and appreciation for ALL of God's creation, not just humans. It has become the second best decision I ever made, second only to coming to Christ.
Let me do an "I" for you will know and understand why I know beyond a doubt you pushing others to become vegans because you needed to for yourself. My children and I were recused from a very terrible and dangerous situation forty years ago by an angel sent by God. I did not know he was an angel of the lord until twenty years later. I simply thought he was a white knight sent to recuse the children and I for that moment in time. He had asked if he could take the children and I to dinner. I declined to begin with because I thought as a carnal being. I was certain that this person was way too good for me; not knowing or understanding fully what was transpiring at the time. The short of that long story is he did take the children and I to dinner after he rescued us. I was simply going to have a salad for dinner and he insisted that "mom should have a big steak" and the children agreed with him. In that alone without all the scripture and translations that I have already or others have already informed you about I know you are full of crap as you attempt to twist your precepts on others. Now if you want to fight animal cruelty by all means do so but if you make claims that people are not supposed to eat meat because it is just so cruel etc. implying that they are unchristian, complicit with the current state of affairs in the meat marketing, imply that they will be accountable for eating available food when they stand before God or allude to any precept that they are going against the Word of God (which you have been doing) I will call you out as having a spirit of error and will continue to let anyone else know that may be buying into your mass confusion that you have a Babylonian spirit about you.
Because she is talking out of her ass by her own carnal precepts while she is pushing an agenda. I covered that already but apparently you missed it too.No I ignore you and your ridiculous precepts, I ignore your confusion and your agenda based crap. That was done in an attempt to have mercy on you because you are one ignorant prideful deceitful little snot that does not know that the shit you are pushing is nasty and not in truth at all when it comes to knowing what will transpire or what has transpired when anyone stands in the presence of the throne of God. You talked about heaven but you haven't a clue. Have you been there? Have you actually stood in the presence of God? No you haven't but you sure do think you have a right to judge others and twist the Word to meet your agenda based crap.
You want to seek God then you better start examining yourself first. I care more what happens to the people that those animals feed than the animals. I never said anyone should be cruel to them or that they should not be care for in a humane manner while they are being raised to feed the people that I like to see fed.
I read my husband what you wrote and he was in full agreement with me "she's whacko" but he added some other words in that to describe you and told me to respond to you in such a manner but I declined and attempted to be as kind as possible instead but that isn't good enough for you.
People and animals again both eat meat. Too bad you don't like that but that is the way creation was created to be here in this world; and it will remain that away here in this world.
Take your carnal precepts and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. That means you have several choices of where to put them.
Buttercup is right. People do look for ways to proof-text scripture in order to conform to their unbiblical indulgences. Which is precisely what you did i nthe post she responded to.
Is that what makes you so mad? Because she said it?
Eating meat is biblical. Meat in the spiritual realm has more sustenance in it than eating merely bread. In the earth realm meat has more protein than veggies therefore more life sustaining long term to those who need it. Like Jesus stated what goes in the mouth comes out through the belly and ends up as draught/shit. Jesus didn't try to pacify or indulge those with ignorance and I have no reason to either when someone is pushing an agenda that is full of error and confusion.
You want to be vegan by all means do so but if you try to push that as an agenda using the Bible I will call you on it if I so desire.
I think you mean the exact opposite, but your statement is true. People here ARE trying to use the Bible to justify meat eating.Trying to use the Bible to justify eating of meat does not make any sense at all
People knew quite well that not eating the flesh animals or their by products would lead to weakness, sickness, and eventual death because they did not understand that their were alternatives that provide sufficient protein.
Today there are plenty of alternatives and good reasons to avoid eating meat. However, that is not to say that people today should forced into a vegan diet; encouragement yes, but it should be an individual choice.
