Trump to allow imports of African elephant trophies

[Rustic]

Trophy hunting is all about wildlife management, it brings out the very best genetics in the game species and it culls the undesirable animals.
You don’t like it you don’t have to participate, it’s really none of your business.

I haven't been talking only about trophy hunting. I was speaking in general in my last few posts. That said, I completely disagree that the best way to take care of wild animals is to hunt and kill them for the fun of it and put them up on a wall. But honestly, I really don't feel like arguing about this with you. The only reason I posted in the first place was to ask you what you were basing your opinion on about why animals were put on this earth, because it isn't biblical.

Animals do not have souls, they are here for people to do with as seen fit.
Hunting is absolutely Biblical…

 

[buttercup]

You keep dismissing people's love of a sport as "for the fun of it" as though that is a little and unimportant thing.

What do you consider a worthy past time?

Do you really want to know? You'll probably roll your eyes if I tell you, lol.

I'm surprised that you're even arguing that doing something for sport is important. Why is your desire to have fun more important than the life of a beautiful, sentient being, created by God?

 

[buttercup]

Animals do not have souls, they are here for people to do with as seen fit.
Hunting is absolutely Biblical…

Animals absolutely do have souls, if we are defining soul as a mind/will/emotions. And we were talking about the original reason animals were put on this earth… Your opinion that they were here for us to have fun killing is simply not biblical. Not according to God's original design.

 

[Correll]

You keep dismissing people's love of a sport as "for the fun of it" as though that is a little and unimportant thing.

What do you consider a worthy past time?

Do you really want to know? You'll probably roll your eyes if I tell you, lol.

I'm surprised that you're even arguing that doing something for sport is important. Why is your desire to have fun more important than the life of a beautiful, sentient being, created by God?

Yes, I want to know. And I probably won't roll my eyes. That is the point.


And yes, love of a sport, and the joy it brings people, is more important than the life of an animal created by God.



What pastimes do you love?

 

[Rustic]

Animals do not have souls, they are here for people to do with as seen fit.
Hunting is absolutely Biblical…

Animals absolutely do have souls, if we are defining soul as a mind/will/emotions. And we were talking about the original reason animals were put on this earth… Your opinion that they were here for us to have fun killing is simply not biblical. Not according to God's original design.

Trophy hunting makes the species much better… Fact
Anyone that is read up on wildlife management knows that

 

[buttercup]

Yes, I want to know. And I probably won't roll my eyes. That is the point.

And yes, love of a sport, and the joy it brings people, is more important than the life of an animal created by God.

What pastimes do you love?

I love to create. I create videos, websites, etc. But not meaningless things, I like to get important messages out there through creative digital media.

As for what you said, I totally disagree. But let me ask you this...are you a practicing Christian?

 

[Rustic]

Animals do not have souls, they are here for one purpose. To be used

 

[buttercup]

Trophy hunting makes the species much better… Fact
Anyone that is read up on wildlife management knows that

Please elaborate on how it makes the species better.

 

[buttercup]

Animals do not have souls, they are here for one purpose. To be used

You still haven't answered my question. According to who?

 

[Correll]

Yes, I want to know. And I probably won't roll my eyes. That is the point.

And yes, love of a sport, and the joy it brings people, is more important than the life of an animal created by God.

What pastimes do you love?

I love to create. I create videos, websites, etc. But not meaningless things, I like to get important messages out there through creative digital media.

As for what you said, I totally disagree. But let me ask you this...are you a practicing Christian?

I'm sorry that you limit your creations to just things with important messages. But you loving to create, is important because you love it.

ANd no, I am not a practicing Christian.

 

[Rustic]

Trophy hunting makes the species much better… Fact
Anyone that is read up on wildlife management knows that

Please elaborate on how it makes the species better.

That’s easy to answer, first of all trophy hunting brings out the very best genetics in a game population. Undesirable animals are eliminated in the form of culling. It brings economic stability to communities…
Why allowing trophy hunting is good for endangered species

 

[Rustic]

Animals do not have souls, they are here for one purpose. To be used

You still haven't answered my question. According to who?

OK, prove animals have souls…

 

[buttercup]

I'm sorry that you limit your creations to just things with important messages. But you loving to create, is important because you love it.

ANd no, I am not a practicing Christian.

Well, I do create fun stuff too. But since there are so many things in this messed up world that need attention… I want to spend my time wisely, on things that are meaningful. Anyway, this is getting off topic.

If you're not a practicing Christian then once again we'll have to agree to disagree, because you're living by a different standard.

 

[Correll]

I'm sorry that you limit your creations to just things with important messages. But you loving to create, is important because you love it.

ANd no, I am not a practicing Christian.

Well, I do create fun stuff too. But since there are so many things in this messed up world that need attention… I want to spend my time wisely, on things that are meaningful. Anyway, this is getting off topic.

If you're not a practicing Christian then once again we'll have to agree to disagree, because you're living by a different standard.

I have no problem discussing the issue while respecting your moral framework.


Why would I?

 

[buttercup]

OK, prove animals have souls…

OK. Again, I define the soul as a mind, will and emotions.

We absolutely know that animals have a will to live. You can see them fighting for their life when they are being taken to slaughter. They also have a will to do other things.

We know that they have emotions because we can witness it. Take a dog, for example. When they're happy they want to play, lick your face, they wag their tail, etc. When they're sad, they cry. When they're angry that is obvious too. You can even tell when they're bored. Other animals are the same way. They clearly have emotions. Anyone who does not realize this is either willfully blind or hasn't been exposed to it.

And we know that animals have a mind, because they're able to do things and figure things out. Here's an example for you: (Watch the video till the end)





Animals also have distinct personalities. Not just cats and dogs, but other animals too, like pigs, cows, goats, sheep etc. So that is what is soul is, a mind/will/emotions/individual personality.

I could go on and on, but I've been on the site for too long and I actually have to get going right now. I'm sure we'll get back to this topic at another time and probably another thread!

 

[Rustic]

OK, prove animals have souls…

OK. Again, I define the soul as a mind, will and emotions.

We absolutely know that animals have a will to live. You can see them fighting for their life when they are being taken to slaughter. They also have a will to do other things.

We know that they have emotions because we can witness it. Take a dog, for example. When they're happy they want to play, lick your face, they wag their tail, etc. When they're sad, they cry. When they're angry that is obvious too. You can even tell when they're bored. Other animals are the same way. They clearly have emotions. Anyone who does not realize this is either willfully blind or hasn't been exposed to it.

And we know that animals have a mind, because they're able to do things and figure things out. Here's an example for you: (Watch the video till the end)





Animals also have distinct personalities. Not just cats and dogs, but other animals too, like pigs, cows, goats, sheep etc. So that is what is soul is, a mind/will/emotions/individual personality.

I could go on and on, but I've been on the site for too long and I actually have to get going right now. I'm sure we'll get back to this topic at another time and probably another thread!

Animals only want attention it’s not reciprocal, They want food and the like..

 

[basquebromance]

i love elephants!

 

[Correll]

OK, prove animals have souls…

OK. Again, I define the soul as a mind, will and emotions.

We absolutely know that animals have a will to live. You can see them fighting for their life when they are being taken to slaughter. They also have a will to do other things.

We know that they have emotions because we can witness it. Take a dog, for example. When they're happy they want to play, lick your face, they wag their tail, etc. When they're sad, they cry. When they're angry that is obvious too. You can even tell when they're bored. Other animals are the same way. They clearly have emotions. Anyone who does not realize this is either willfully blind or hasn't been exposed to it.

And we know that animals have a mind, because they're able to do things and figure things out. Here's an example for you: (Watch the video till the end)





Animals also have distinct personalities. Not just cats and dogs, but other animals too, like pigs, cows, goats, sheep etc. So that is what is soul is, a mind/will/emotions/individual personality.

I could go on and on, but I've been on the site for too long and I actually have to get going right now. I'm sure we'll get back to this topic at another time and probably another thread!

That is an odd way for a practicing Christian to define soul.

 

[martybegan]

All of that is true, but as a person who has lived and worked in Africa for years at a time, I can tell you that in areas where hunting is allowed the elephant population is doing OK. Not great mind you, but OK. Where hunting is outlawed they are nearing extinction. It's as simple as that.

I understand their conservation is a complicated matter....but perhaps we could stop short of allowing their severed heads to be brought back

it's part of the reason these guys(and occasional girl) spend $100k-$300k on a valid permit.

Tough shit then. As it is they are still spending it even though they can’t bring dismembered bodies home.

Emotion is expected in this situation, but if you really want to save these herds, what is the big deal about some guy having his trophy?

Is he going to put a gun to your head and force you to admire it in his den?

Because it is barbaric. You are killing a highly evolved intelligent animal. For money.

Should we go back to sticking human heads in poles?

Emotion is what this type of hunting is. It is a misplaced sense of bravado that sticks dismembered animal parts on the wall. Do you when emotion isn’t involved or is tempered by rationality? People who hunt and eat it.

Sorry, I don't equate animal life to human life. We are supposed to be stewards of them, and if some yahoos want to pay big $$ to kill off some non-viable members of a herd to allow the species as a whole to remain on this planet, I honestly say "OK".

As I have stated before, the end of life for any animal in the wild isn't a peaceful go to sleep forever fantasy, they usually end up starving, dying of thirst, or being shredded by whatever predator/scavenger finally gets to them when they are no longer able to defend themselves.

Humans are the planets apex predator, and some of us (probably not me) still have that primal urge.

 

[martybegan]

All of that is true, but as a person who has lived and worked in Africa for years at a time, I can tell you that in areas where hunting is allowed the elephant population is doing OK. Not great mind you, but OK. Where hunting is outlawed they are nearing extinction. It's as simple as that.

I understand their conservation is a complicated matter....but perhaps we could stop short of allowing their severed heads to be brought back

it's part of the reason these guys(and occasional girl) spend $100k-$300k on a valid permit.

Tough shit then. As it is they are still spending it even though they can’t bring dismembered bodies home.

Emotion is expected in this situation, but if you really want to save these herds, what is the big deal about some guy having his trophy?

Is he going to put a gun to your head and force you to admire it in his den?

Killing any living creature for pleasure is, IMO, pathological. That picture of the assholes son disgusted me.

Doesn't bother me at all. Nature is all about predator/prey, and we are the planet's apex predator.