Trump & Jerusalem: Why is this necessary?

[martybegan]

Diplomacy has been ongoing for decades through multiple presidents from both parties.

Maybe if the Arab States stop getting the crumbs they beg for they may finally start negotiating in good faith.

You mean just let the fake jews take their homes in the west bank. Gaza, the largest outdoor prison.

Blah blah blah "I hatez teh joooooooos!!!' blah blah blah.

Go tweak a crematorium you nazi hack.

Call me anti semite, who in the hell cares, it means nothing.

Much like any of your posts.

Read my lips, I do not care. I agree with many Jews, not the zealot ones.

Isn't that the same as saying "hey, I have black friends".......

 

[Mac1958]

I sure don't know, and neither has anyone. My main question here is about the timing. If we're serious about peace in the Middle East, if we know what this is going to cause, why do we have to do this now?

If this is a political move, sure, it makes sense. If we're serious about peace, no, I don't see it.
.

well given the arab states would likely *never* come to the table and agree to this - do we just keep waiting on them?

and when was the last time there was peace in that region? we'd have arab nations agreeing to the capital move before they'd agree to stop fighting.

Well, if we're giving up, then sure, what the hell.
.

when was there last real peace in that region?

Pretty much never. But there are levels of war, and this is just inviting trouble.

So again, knowing that going in, is this necessary?
.

It shakes up the apple cart, and maybe the cart needs shaking.

Once again the wisdom of Clauswitz is applicable here. What we have in the middle east isn't peace, it is nothing more than an armistice because the underlying causes of the conflict have never been resolved. And until all the Arab states recognize Israel as a country with a right to exist (or they drive every jew into the sea) you will not have a true Clauswitzian resolution to the conflict.

Interesting. I suppose that can be possible, but holy crap, that omelette better be worth the eggs we're gonna break.
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What is the NET - and I mean, above and beyond the anger this is stirring - positive of this move?
.

My question is, what did the deal maker in chief get in return?

This clears the Jerusalem issue from the table as a stumbling block for future negotiations.

Israel has declare Jerusalem its capital and uses it as its capital, but everyone pretends it is still in Tel Aviv in order to placate Muslims who cherish it because Mohamed dreamed he went there.

While it is a symbolic claim for Muslims it is a very real thing for Israel.

Trump is going to simply settle the issue and move on, even though Muslim demagogues like Turkey's Erdogan will bloviate for a few months on it.

Erdogan calls Islamic summit next week on Jerusalem

 

[martybegan]

well given the arab states would likely *never* come to the table and agree to this - do we just keep waiting on them?

and when was the last time there was peace in that region? we'd have arab nations agreeing to the capital move before they'd agree to stop fighting.

Well, if we're giving up, then sure, what the hell.
.

when was there last real peace in that region?

Pretty much never. But there are levels of war, and this is just inviting trouble.

So again, knowing that going in, is this necessary?
.

It shakes up the apple cart, and maybe the cart needs shaking.

Once again the wisdom of Clauswitz is applicable here. What we have in the middle east isn't peace, it is nothing more than an armistice because the underlying causes of the conflict have never been resolved. And until all the Arab states recognize Israel as a country with a right to exist (or they drive every jew into the sea) you will not have a true Clauswitzian resolution to the conflict.

Interesting. I suppose that can be possible, but holy crap, that omelette better be worth the eggs we're gonna break.
.

Right now the US has a combat trained military, even if we are behind in equipment upgrade cycles. Many mid level officers and NCO's have years of combat experience.

If the shit is going to hit the fan eventually now wouldn't be a horrible time. An example of a horrible time would have been a US-Soviet conflict in the late 70's early 80's, when our armed forces were demoralized and our equipment outdated.

 

[jon_berzerk]

good job mr president

you kept a promise and

gave the leftist jew haters a big kick in the nutz

--LOL

 

[Mac1958]

Well, if we're giving up, then sure, what the hell.
.

when was there last real peace in that region?

Pretty much never. But there are levels of war, and this is just inviting trouble.

So again, knowing that going in, is this necessary?
.

It shakes up the apple cart, and maybe the cart needs shaking.

Once again the wisdom of Clauswitz is applicable here. What we have in the middle east isn't peace, it is nothing more than an armistice because the underlying causes of the conflict have never been resolved. And until all the Arab states recognize Israel as a country with a right to exist (or they drive every jew into the sea) you will not have a true Clauswitzian resolution to the conflict.

Interesting. I suppose that can be possible, but holy crap, that omelette better be worth the eggs we're gonna break.
.

Right now the US has a combat trained military, even if we are behind in equipment upgrade cycles. Many mid level officers and NCO's have years of combat experience.

If the shit is going to hit the fan eventually now wouldn't be a horrible time. An example of a horrible time would have been a US-Soviet conflict in the late 70's early 80's, when our armed forces were demoralized and our equipment outdated.

That's not the way it would go, though. I'm not talking about some kind of war, I'm talking about a potentially drastic increase in terrorism.

There are very few things that America could do, outside of bombing innocents, that will piss them off at this level. And maybe bombing innocents wouldn't even be as bad.
.

 

[martybegan]

when was there last real peace in that region?

Pretty much never. But there are levels of war, and this is just inviting trouble.

So again, knowing that going in, is this necessary?
.

It shakes up the apple cart, and maybe the cart needs shaking.

Once again the wisdom of Clauswitz is applicable here. What we have in the middle east isn't peace, it is nothing more than an armistice because the underlying causes of the conflict have never been resolved. And until all the Arab states recognize Israel as a country with a right to exist (or they drive every jew into the sea) you will not have a true Clauswitzian resolution to the conflict.

Interesting. I suppose that can be possible, but holy crap, that omelette better be worth the eggs we're gonna break.
.

Right now the US has a combat trained military, even if we are behind in equipment upgrade cycles. Many mid level officers and NCO's have years of combat experience.

If the shit is going to hit the fan eventually now wouldn't be a horrible time. An example of a horrible time would have been a US-Soviet conflict in the late 70's early 80's, when our armed forces were demoralized and our equipment outdated.

That's not the way it would go, though. I'm not talking about some kind of war, I'm talking about a potentially drastic increase in terrorism.

There are very few things that America could do, outside of bombing innocents, that will piss them off at this level. And maybe bombing innocents wouldn't even be as bad.
.

An increase in terrorism might lead to the US deciding enough is enough and really gunning for people supporting it.

Sooner or later a Clausiwitizan conclusion needs to be reached.

 

[JimBowie1958]

and when was the last time there was peace in that region? we'd have arab nations agreeing to the capital move before they'd agree to stop fighting.

Well, if we're giving up, then sure, what the hell.
.

Recognizing Reality and moving our embassy to Jerusalem is not giving up, it is recognizing Congresses wishes in expression of the Will of the American people.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Well, if we're giving up, then sure, what the hell.
.

when was there last real peace in that region?

Palestine is the ONLY land bridge between the continents of Eurasia and Africa.

So to answer your question, NEVER.

 

[PredFan]

I should post this in the CDZ, but what the hell, I'm here now.

Trump to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital

With everything else going on right now, why is this necessary?

What is the NET - and I mean, above and beyond the anger this is stirring - positive of this move?
.

It solidifies our relationship with Israel. Unlike the last president, he is showing a commitment to them.

 

[iceberg]

Well, if we're giving up, then sure, what the hell.
.

when was there last real peace in that region?

Palestine is the ONLY land bridge between the continents of Eurasia and Africa.

So to answer your question, NEVER.

agreed - but that's why i don't see how waiting for a better time would make a difference.

how long in total have we waited? since israel became a nation?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Call me anti semite, who in the hell cares, it means nothing.

Yeah, kinda like 'racist'.

 

[iceberg]

You mean just let the fake jews take their homes in the west bank. Gaza, the largest outdoor prison.

Blah blah blah "I hatez teh joooooooos!!!' blah blah blah.

Go tweak a crematorium you nazi hack.

Call me anti semite, who in the hell cares, it means nothing.

Much like any of your posts.

Read my lips, I do not care. I agree with many Jews, not the zealot ones.

Isn't that the same as saying "hey, I have black friends".......

well you put any color there and i'm sure it's still a lie for her.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Well, if we're giving up, then sure, what the hell.
.

when was there last real peace in that region?

Palestine is the ONLY land bridge between the continents of Eurasia and Africa.

So to answer your question, NEVER.

agreed - but that's why i don't see how waiting for a better time would make a difference.

how long in total have we waited? since israel became a nation?

Sometimes you have to just grit your teeth and lance the boil.

To negotiate real peace, the Jerusalem issue has to be laid to rest.

 

[Mac1958]

It solidifies our relationship with Israel. Unlike the last president, he is showing a commitment to them.

So - and this is a serious question - after any number of people die and suffer in the terrorist attacks this specific move causes, it will be okay to say, "well, we were able to solidify our relationship with Israel, so these are worth it"?
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Jooooooosss!!!!!

You do know that the Jews have caused all the wars in the history of mankind?

Its true, I read it on the Interwebs.

 

[Old Rocks]

You don't do the right thing because it is easy

You do the right thing because it is the right thing to do

This has been promised to jews for a long time and Trump is the first POTUS with the balls to do it.

You mean that the treasonous fat senile old orange clown likes to kick hornets nests. After all, none of his children will ever have to serve in the hell hole that is the Middle East. They will all have bone spurs. LOL

 

[Mac1958]

Sometimes you have to just grit your teeth and lance the boil. To negotiate real peace, the Jerusalem issue has to be laid to rest.

I wonder, though, if that's really the reason for this.
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It solidifies our relationship with Israel. Unlike the last president, he is showing a commitment to them.

So - and this is a serious question - after any number of people die and suffer in the terrorist attacks this specific move causes, it will be okay to say, "well, we were able to solidify our relationship with Israel, so these are worth it"?
.

Islamic Jihadi terrorists are ALREADY attacking as many targets as they possibly can.

If there is any increase in terrorism at all, it will not be measurable.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Agreed.

Just because it makes sense is irrelevant to why anyone does anything in Washington these days, though Trump is not really part of DC.

Its just I dont try to divine peoples motivations for doing things any more.

I have Aspergers and I keep assuming they do things for rational reasons.