Trump & Jerusalem: Why is this necessary?

[Penelope]

It solidifies our relationship with Israel. Unlike the last president, he is showing a commitment to them.

So - and this is a serious question - after any number of people die and suffer in the terrorist attacks this specific move causes, it will be okay to say, "well, we were able to solidify our relationship with Israel, so these are worth it"?
.

given that iran and others want to nuke israel off the map, does it make a difference what you to save a hundred lives when people are threatening them all?

....and would Muslim leaders really destroy the entire Middle East because Mohmed dreamed he went to Jerusalem?

I respect Arabs, but in their culture pressing claims as a buffer against their opponents going for the real interests you care about is a common and respected tactic.

Besides, Trump being a good and successful bidnessman, he has likely polled all the major players he gives a flying fart about behind the scenes already.

That might be why the Saudi Crown Prince has cleaned house in Arabia.

How many times has trump declared bankruptcy. SA is anti this move.

 

[Votto]

what if the goal is to just recognize what israel wants as their capital?

Then we have something more rare than an albino giraffe; and honest office holder in the White House.

who just happens to lie about everything.

this in itself would be a lie. trump does not lie about *everything* making you a liar in the same vein he is.

congrats on your "WIN".

riiiiiiight. lol

he does not lie about everything. i can find several statements where he is telling the truth. you just ignore those cause...well you just do. i refuse to try and dig deeper into stupid this am.

now - trump does EXAGGERATE the holy hell out of a lot of things. and many turn out to be wrong so *these* are his lies, at least a bulk that i've seen of them.

given you said he lies about EVERYTHING this is a "trump'ism" in that you exaggerate to make a point.

just like your daddy trump.

he would be so proud. you're growing up just like him.

Trump lies, they all do. Trump lied about Ted Cruz's father being apart of the assassination of JFK. Trump lied about putting Hillary behind bars, etc. I'm sure he has even lied about allegations women have brought against him in the past.

The trouble is, the alternatives do just the same if not worse. There is no real moral high ground to be seen anywhere.

 

[JimBowie1958]

he would be so proud. you're growing up just like him.

Trump lies, they all do. Trump lied about Ted Cruz's father being apart of the assassination of JFK. Trump lied about putting Hillary behind bars, etc. I'm sure he has even lied about allegations women have brought against him in the past.
The trouble is, the alternatives do just the same if not worse. There is no real moral high ground to be seen anywhere.

Give Trump some more time to put Hillary behind bars. He first must break down her influence in the DoJ and Deep State, then she can go to jail.

 

[JimBowie1958]

How many times has trump declared bankruptcy. SA is anti this move.

You know nothing about the business world or Saudi Arabia, apparently.

 

[iceberg]

Then we have something more rare than an albino giraffe; and honest office holder in the White House.

who just happens to lie about everything.

this in itself would be a lie. trump does not lie about *everything* making you a liar in the same vein he is.

congrats on your "WIN".

riiiiiiight. lol

he does not lie about everything. i can find several statements where he is telling the truth. you just ignore those cause...well you just do. i refuse to try and dig deeper into stupid this am.

now - trump does EXAGGERATE the holy hell out of a lot of things. and many turn out to be wrong so *these* are his lies, at least a bulk that i've seen of them.

given you said he lies about EVERYTHING this is a "trump'ism" in that you exaggerate to make a point.

just like your daddy trump.

he would be so proud. you're growing up just like him.

Trump lies, they all do. Trump lied about Ted Cruz's father being apart of the assassination of JFK. Trump lied about putting Hillary behind bars, etc. I'm sure he has even lied about allegations women have brought against him in the past.

The trouble is, the alternatives do just the same if not worse. There is no real moral high ground to be seen anywhere.

i never said trump doesn't lie. i said trump doesn't lie about EVERYTHING.

which was her assertion, which he tends to do a lot of, so she's a lot like him and it cracks me up.

 

[iceberg]

this is why there will be hell to pay:
The Palestinians seek east Jerusalem as the capital of a future independent state and fear that Trump’s declaration essentially imposes on them a disastrous solution for one of the core issues in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

from: Warnings intensify as Trump readies Jerusalem declaration

the claim is this destroys the peace process but i've never seen peace in that region in my lifetime and they've been fighting since there was sand there. period.

to say this will stop the potential for peace is crap. they don't *want* peace. even if israel was NOT there they'd still be fighting among themselves as they have been since the dawn of time. but at least i understand the overall picture now.

if there was hope for peace and constructive talks, great. don't pull that trigger yet. if there is no hope for peace, do what you gotta do.

 

[Slow]

You don't do the right thing because it is easy

You do the right thing because it is the right thing to do

This has been promised to jews for a long time and Trump is the first POTUS with the balls to do it.

so does this somehow formalize Israel as a country then? what is the significance of the move itself?

israel is already "formalized" as a country.what are you talking about?

pretty plain to see i'm asking to learn. yes my understanding is israel is a formal country which is why i don't get the anger behind the move. but you are just here starting shit and i just flushed.

have a nice day.

because whether I like it or not or agree with it or not, east Jerusalem is disputed. the region is already a tinderbox so the point is that given that is the case, what gain is there for our country in doing this now?

the answer is there is none. ham-handed Donald did it because it is what his evangelical crazies want. and it makes us talk about this instead of the fact that the special prosecutor just got his bank records from Deutsche bank.

capisce?

Israel is one of our most loyal allies

To not back them up here is disgraceful

 

[Slow]

Isn't it funny how one moment the unhinged call Trump a nazi and the next they say he is too biased towards jews?

 

[Theowl32]

The left think muslims were in Jerusalem before Jews.

Isnt that what they claim about natives here?

Why is it again soooooo wrong in the godless worlds mind that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel?

To the bigger point. The entire godless pathetic world would be dancing if Trump declared Jerusalem belongs to so called Palestinians.

They would jump for joy.

 

[Votto]

Isn't it funny how one moment the unhinged call Trump a nazi and the next they say he is too biased towards jews?

I remember when Trump was running he was presented as anti-Semitic

Hilarious.

 

[Mac1958]

what if the goal is to just recognize what israel wants as their capital?

I hope that isn't the only goal. I want to think that this administration can see the bigger picture a little more clearly than that, that it can understand the complexity of this issue, at least to some degree.
.

 

[iceberg]

what if the goal is to just recognize what israel wants as their capital?

I hope that isn't the only goal. I want to think that this administration can see the bigger picture a little more clearly than that, that it can understand the complexity of this issue, at least to some degree.
.

what bigger picture?

you can keep waiting on a peace process that is never going to happen or you can move on and continue getting the same threats over and over.

again - is there any real hope for peace in that region? never thought you could actually stir up a stirred up hornets nest.

 

[GHook93]

I should post this in the CDZ, but what the hell, I'm here now.

Trump to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital

With everything else going on right now, why is this necessary?

What is the NET - and I mean, above and beyond the anger this is stirring - positive of this move?
.

First it is the right thing and should and have been done ages ago! Second, fuck Islam!


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Mac1958]

what if the goal is to just recognize what israel wants as their capital?

I hope that isn't the only goal. I want to think that this administration can see the bigger picture a little more clearly than that, that it can understand the complexity of this issue, at least to some degree.
.

what bigger picture?

you can keep waiting on a peace process that is never going to happen or you can move on and continue getting the same threats over and over.

again - is there any real hope for peace in that region? never thought you could actually stir up a stirred up hornets nest.

Third time - lack of peace is not a static condition. There are more violent and bloody times, there are less violent and bloody times.

Clearly, it's okay with you and others to incite more violence and death in exchange for whatever positive is coming from this voluntary decision.

That is clearly an acceptable trade-off for you.

I get that, and I think we have that settled.
.

 

[alang1216]

What is the NET - and I mean, above and beyond the anger this is stirring - positive of this move?
.

My question is, what did the deal maker in chief get in return?

This clears the Jerusalem issue from the table as a stumbling block for future negotiations.

Israel has declare Jerusalem its capital and uses it as its capital, but everyone pretends it is still in Tel Aviv in order to placate Muslims who cherish it because Mohamed dreamed he went there.

While it is a symbolic claim for Muslims it is a very real thing for Israel.

Trump is going to simply settle the issue and move on, even though Muslim demagogues like Turkey's Erdogan will bloviate for a few months on it.

Erdogan calls Islamic summit next week on Jerusalem

It may be that the decision is the greatest thing since sliced bread but to not get something in exchange? That seems like a basic tenet of diplomacy. Trump should read the Art of the Deal, he might learn something.

 

[iceberg]

what if the goal is to just recognize what israel wants as their capital?

I hope that isn't the only goal. I want to think that this administration can see the bigger picture a little more clearly than that, that it can understand the complexity of this issue, at least to some degree.
.

what bigger picture?

you can keep waiting on a peace process that is never going to happen or you can move on and continue getting the same threats over and over.

again - is there any real hope for peace in that region? never thought you could actually stir up a stirred up hornets nest.

Third time - lack of peace is not a static condition. There are more violent and bloody times, there are less violent and bloody times.

Clearly, it's okay with you and others to incite more violence and death in exchange for whatever positive is coming from this voluntary decision.

That is clearly an acceptable trade-off for you.

I get that, and I think we have that settled.
.

clearly in the questions i have asked i don't know enough and clearly i simply don't agree with your assessment in "Death or More Death".

Subscribe to read
2015 is one of the most violent times in the region it would seem.

2013 they felt it couldn't get worse and yet, it did.

end of the above article:
“The conditions under which 2014 developed did not change,” Ms Scheller said. “The less governance there is, the more chaos and devastation and the less prospect for any settlement that will lead to quick results.”

so are we establishing MORE governance there by doing this? from this article it would be what is needed to calm down the violence.

you continue to say that doing this will cause there to be MORE violence and i don't disagree at all. AT ALL.

but i do ask *WHEN* would be a good time to do this and there simply is no answer. not from you or me or anyone that i can find. there is clearly a stall by the arab states to NOT make this decision and NOT promote peace and there is nothing on the horizon that will bring them to the table to talk and end this.

NOTHING.

so - i ask again *when* would there be a good time to do this? if your stance is *never do it, people will get hurt* great. say so. i disagree but would respect your views.

 

[Mac1958]

what if the goal is to just recognize what israel wants as their capital?

I hope that isn't the only goal. I want to think that this administration can see the bigger picture a little more clearly than that, that it can understand the complexity of this issue, at least to some degree.
.

what bigger picture?

you can keep waiting on a peace process that is never going to happen or you can move on and continue getting the same threats over and over.

again - is there any real hope for peace in that region? never thought you could actually stir up a stirred up hornets nest.

Third time - lack of peace is not a static condition. There are more violent and bloody times, there are less violent and bloody times.

Clearly, it's okay with you and others to incite more violence and death in exchange for whatever positive is coming from this voluntary decision.

That is clearly an acceptable trade-off for you.

I get that, and I think we have that settled.
.

clearly in the questions i have asked i don't know enough and clearly i simply don't agree with your assessment in "Death or More Death".

Subscribe to read
2015 is one of the most violent times in the region it would seem.

2013 they felt it couldn't get worse and yet, it did.

end of the above article:
“The conditions under which 2014 developed did not change,” Ms Scheller said. “The less governance there is, the more chaos and devastation and the less prospect for any settlement that will lead to quick results.”

so are we establishing MORE governance there by doing this? from this article it would be what is needed to calm down the violence.

you continue to say that doing this will cause there to be MORE violence and i don't disagree at all. AT ALL.

but i do ask *WHEN* would be a good time to do this and there simply is no answer. not from you or me or anyone that i can find. there is clearly a stall by the arab states to NOT make this decision and NOT promote peace and there is nothing on the horizon that will bring them to the table to talk and end this.

NOTHING.

so - i ask again *when* would there be a good time to do this? if your stance is *never do it, people will get hurt* great. say so. i disagree but would respect your views.

I have no idea when the best time for this would be. None. The question posed in the thread is, "Why is this necessary?", not "when should this be done?".

So, if we have no choice but to do this, and it must be done right now, and we see net positive coming from it, then it must be done, right now. I just don't see that as the situation.

Since this was not a burning issue a few days ago, I think it's perfectly reasonable to wonder if this is more political than altruistic.
.

 

[iceberg]

what if the goal is to just recognize what israel wants as their capital?

I hope that isn't the only goal. I want to think that this administration can see the bigger picture a little more clearly than that, that it can understand the complexity of this issue, at least to some degree.
.

what bigger picture?

you can keep waiting on a peace process that is never going to happen or you can move on and continue getting the same threats over and over.

again - is there any real hope for peace in that region? never thought you could actually stir up a stirred up hornets nest.

Third time - lack of peace is not a static condition. There are more violent and bloody times, there are less violent and bloody times.

Clearly, it's okay with you and others to incite more violence and death in exchange for whatever positive is coming from this voluntary decision.

That is clearly an acceptable trade-off for you.

I get that, and I think we have that settled.
.

clearly in the questions i have asked i don't know enough and clearly i simply don't agree with your assessment in "Death or More Death".

Subscribe to read
2015 is one of the most violent times in the region it would seem.

2013 they felt it couldn't get worse and yet, it did.

end of the above article:
“The conditions under which 2014 developed did not change,” Ms Scheller said. “The less governance there is, the more chaos and devastation and the less prospect for any settlement that will lead to quick results.”

so are we establishing MORE governance there by doing this? from this article it would be what is needed to calm down the violence.

you continue to say that doing this will cause there to be MORE violence and i don't disagree at all. AT ALL.

but i do ask *WHEN* would be a good time to do this and there simply is no answer. not from you or me or anyone that i can find. there is clearly a stall by the arab states to NOT make this decision and NOT promote peace and there is nothing on the horizon that will bring them to the table to talk and end this.

NOTHING.

so - i ask again *when* would there be a good time to do this? if your stance is *never do it, people will get hurt* great. say so. i disagree but would respect your views.

I have no idea when the best time for this would be. None. The question posed in the thread is, "Why is this necessary?", not "when should this be done?".

So, if we have no choice but to do this, and it must be done right now, and we see net positive coming from it, then it must be done, right now. I just don't see that as the situation.

Since this was not a burning issue a few days ago, I think it's perfectly reasonable to wonder if this is more political than altruistic.
.

i'm not saying *NOW* is the right time to do it. i'm asking for a better time.

if there will *never* be a good or better time for it then the choice is do it or drop it completely.

or - keep waiting for a time that will never come.

trump made it a promise to end the wait and he's keeping that promise. i can certainly understand the apprehension that it will not stop the violence in the middle east but nothing will. you can either deal with it as a part of life to move ahead or deal with it it in fear and cower, waiting for a time that will never come.

that just seems to sum it up to me but i'm still trying to learn all i can about it. that's all.

 

[Mac1958]

I hope that isn't the only goal. I want to think that this administration can see the bigger picture a little more clearly than that, that it can understand the complexity of this issue, at least to some degree.
.

what bigger picture?

you can keep waiting on a peace process that is never going to happen or you can move on and continue getting the same threats over and over.

again - is there any real hope for peace in that region? never thought you could actually stir up a stirred up hornets nest.

Third time - lack of peace is not a static condition. There are more violent and bloody times, there are less violent and bloody times.

Clearly, it's okay with you and others to incite more violence and death in exchange for whatever positive is coming from this voluntary decision.

That is clearly an acceptable trade-off for you.

I get that, and I think we have that settled.
.

clearly in the questions i have asked i don't know enough and clearly i simply don't agree with your assessment in "Death or More Death".

Subscribe to read
2015 is one of the most violent times in the region it would seem.

2013 they felt it couldn't get worse and yet, it did.

end of the above article:
“The conditions under which 2014 developed did not change,” Ms Scheller said. “The less governance there is, the more chaos and devastation and the less prospect for any settlement that will lead to quick results.”

so are we establishing MORE governance there by doing this? from this article it would be what is needed to calm down the violence.

you continue to say that doing this will cause there to be MORE violence and i don't disagree at all. AT ALL.

but i do ask *WHEN* would be a good time to do this and there simply is no answer. not from you or me or anyone that i can find. there is clearly a stall by the arab states to NOT make this decision and NOT promote peace and there is nothing on the horizon that will bring them to the table to talk and end this.

NOTHING.

so - i ask again *when* would there be a good time to do this? if your stance is *never do it, people will get hurt* great. say so. i disagree but would respect your views.

I have no idea when the best time for this would be. None. The question posed in the thread is, "Why is this necessary?", not "when should this be done?".

So, if we have no choice but to do this, and it must be done right now, and we see net positive coming from it, then it must be done, right now. I just don't see that as the situation.

Since this was not a burning issue a few days ago, I think it's perfectly reasonable to wonder if this is more political than altruistic.
.

i'm not saying *NOW* is the right time to do it. i'm asking for a better time.

if there will *never* be a good or better time for it then the choice is do it or drop it completely.

or - keep waiting for a time that will never come.

trump made it a promise to end the wait and he's keeping that promise. i can certainly understand the apprehension that it will not stop the violence in the middle east but nothing will. you can either deal with it as a part of life to move ahead or deal with it it in fear and cower, waiting for a time that will never come.

that just seems to sum it up to me but i'm still trying to learn all i can about it. that's all.

Well, then do it now and buckle up. I hope it will have been worth it.
.

 

[iceberg]

what bigger picture?

you can keep waiting on a peace process that is never going to happen or you can move on and continue getting the same threats over and over.

again - is there any real hope for peace in that region? never thought you could actually stir up a stirred up hornets nest.

Third time - lack of peace is not a static condition. There are more violent and bloody times, there are less violent and bloody times.

Clearly, it's okay with you and others to incite more violence and death in exchange for whatever positive is coming from this voluntary decision.

That is clearly an acceptable trade-off for you.

I get that, and I think we have that settled.
.

clearly in the questions i have asked i don't know enough and clearly i simply don't agree with your assessment in "Death or More Death".

Subscribe to read
2015 is one of the most violent times in the region it would seem.

2013 they felt it couldn't get worse and yet, it did.

end of the above article:
“The conditions under which 2014 developed did not change,” Ms Scheller said. “The less governance there is, the more chaos and devastation and the less prospect for any settlement that will lead to quick results.”

so are we establishing MORE governance there by doing this? from this article it would be what is needed to calm down the violence.

you continue to say that doing this will cause there to be MORE violence and i don't disagree at all. AT ALL.

but i do ask *WHEN* would be a good time to do this and there simply is no answer. not from you or me or anyone that i can find. there is clearly a stall by the arab states to NOT make this decision and NOT promote peace and there is nothing on the horizon that will bring them to the table to talk and end this.

NOTHING.

so - i ask again *when* would there be a good time to do this? if your stance is *never do it, people will get hurt* great. say so. i disagree but would respect your views.

I have no idea when the best time for this would be. None. The question posed in the thread is, "Why is this necessary?", not "when should this be done?".

So, if we have no choice but to do this, and it must be done right now, and we see net positive coming from it, then it must be done, right now. I just don't see that as the situation.

Since this was not a burning issue a few days ago, I think it's perfectly reasonable to wonder if this is more political than altruistic.
.

i'm not saying *NOW* is the right time to do it. i'm asking for a better time.

if there will *never* be a good or better time for it then the choice is do it or drop it completely.

or - keep waiting for a time that will never come.

trump made it a promise to end the wait and he's keeping that promise. i can certainly understand the apprehension that it will not stop the violence in the middle east but nothing will. you can either deal with it as a part of life to move ahead or deal with it it in fear and cower, waiting for a time that will never come.

that just seems to sum it up to me but i'm still trying to learn all i can about it. that's all.

Well, then do it now and buckle up. I hope it will have been worth it.
.

like anything will be to some, not to others. queue the additional fighting.