Tolerance? Not for Christians...

[AllieBaba]

British Medical Association labels gay conversion therapy harmful, discredited

Following a year-long undercover investigation by a reporter, the British Medical Association has determined that “gay conversion therapy” is not therapy, is more harmful to patients than helpful, and should be banned.

Journalist Patrick Strudwick posed as a patient seeking “gay conversion therapy” or “reparative therapy” for a year. In his report on his experience, he described what amounted to psychological torture; Strudwick went to two conversion therapists. One, a Christian, focused on turning him to focus on her god and tried hard to convince Strudwick he’d been sexually abused. The other focused on explaining to Strudwick that he was somehow “wounded”, and that he had to find the source of those “wounds” to discover the roots of his sexuality.

Both of these “therapists” were licensed and receiving funds via the NHS. Strudwick learned that they use methods created by Joseph Nicolosi, the Christian Evangelical American founder of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.
The British Medical Association has determined that such “therapies” have been discredited, are damaging to patient, and should be banned. The Association’s membership further agreed that the NHS should investigate any cases of such conversion therapies, and terminate any public funding to such practices.

Tom Dolphin, vice-chair of BMA’s junior doctors committee, proposed the motion. “Sexuality is such a fundamental part of who a person is, that attempts to change it just result in significant confusion, depression and even suicide. You can’t just wish away same-sex attraction no matter how inconvenient it might be,” says Dolphin.
Strudwick commented on the successful motion, “My undercover investigation for The Independent, which prompted this motion, highlighted the fact that not only are psychiatrists and psychotherapists still peddling these abhorrent techniques, but that in some cases the NHS are paying for it.

“Hopefully, anyone involved in the so-called treatment of homosexuality will realize that the medical profession considers them dangerous charlatans, and will reconsider their beliefs. I also sincerely hope that any vulnerable gay person who is unhappy about their sexuality takes notice of this motion and realizes that it is the world that needs to change, not them.”

Completely irrelevant.
As usual.

 

[Coyote]

THE APA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS.

She has shown her willingness to abide by the guidelines.
She has said she will not recant her faith, or state she believes other than she does.

And I haven't once seen that she considered it a psychological disorder requiring treatment. That's in your head.

No one is asking her to recant her faith you ignorant twit. She's just another Christian whiner with claims of persecution that are non-existant.

Now, neg me again since you are incapable of giving a rational argument.

The school is asking her to recant her faith. She believes that homosexuality is wrong and she believes this because of her faith and moral upbringing. Now the school is demanding that she toss that faith in the toilet.

The school is discriminating against her and people of faith.

The school should immediately lose its accreditation until it is willing to accept people of faith.

Immie

I'll repeat what Sky Dancer said:

Since she ascribes to conversion therapy, she goes against the APA which does not consider homosexuality a disorder in and of itself in need of treatment.

By supporting conversion therapy she indicates her bias. She is entitled to consider homosexuality morally wrong but she is not entitled to consider it a disorder.

 

[Coyote]

British Medical Association labels gay conversion therapy harmful, discredited

Following a year-long undercover investigation by a reporter, the British Medical Association has determined that “gay conversion therapy” is not therapy, is more harmful to patients than helpful, and should be banned.

Journalist Patrick Strudwick posed as a patient seeking “gay conversion therapy” or “reparative therapy” for a year. In his report on his experience, he described what amounted to psychological torture; Strudwick went to two conversion therapists. One, a Christian, focused on turning him to focus on her god and tried hard to convince Strudwick he’d been sexually abused. The other focused on explaining to Strudwick that he was somehow “wounded”, and that he had to find the source of those “wounds” to discover the roots of his sexuality.

Both of these “therapists” were licensed and receiving funds via the NHS. Strudwick learned that they use methods created by Joseph Nicolosi, the Christian Evangelical American founder of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.
The British Medical Association has determined that such “therapies” have been discredited, are damaging to patient, and should be banned. The Association’s membership further agreed that the NHS should investigate any cases of such conversion therapies, and terminate any public funding to such practices.

Tom Dolphin, vice-chair of BMA’s junior doctors committee, proposed the motion. “Sexuality is such a fundamental part of who a person is, that attempts to change it just result in significant confusion, depression and even suicide. You can’t just wish away same-sex attraction no matter how inconvenient it might be,” says Dolphin.
Strudwick commented on the successful motion, “My undercover investigation for The Independent, which prompted this motion, highlighted the fact that not only are psychiatrists and psychotherapists still peddling these abhorrent techniques, but that in some cases the NHS are paying for it.

“Hopefully, anyone involved in the so-called treatment of homosexuality will realize that the medical profession considers them dangerous charlatans, and will reconsider their beliefs. I also sincerely hope that any vulnerable gay person who is unhappy about their sexuality takes notice of this motion and realizes that it is the world that needs to change, not them.”

Completely irrelevant.
As usual.

Your such a twat, as usual.

The woman supports conversion therapy. That makes it relevant. Idiot.

 

[Coyote]

We've heard the ADF's side of the story in that article Allie:

Alliance Defense Fund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ADF claims that students who have attempted to speak against same-sex relationships and behavior have been censored or, in some cases, punished for their actions under campus hate-speech rules, such as Chase Harper, a high school student whose activism sparked the first Day of Truth. Harper was suspended for wearing a T-shirt that read "Be Ashamed" and "Our School Embraced What God Has Condemned," and on the back read, "Homosexuality is Shameful" and "Romans 1:27." The Alliance Defense Fund filed an unsuccessful federal lawsuit against school officials on behalf of Harper, claiming his religious freedoms were violated. The case was appealed to the Supreme Court.[16] [17][18]

My irony meter explodes when I read this bullshit. A group is asking for tolerance for their hate speech while refusing to tolerate the rights of others.

sigh...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Modbert again

 

[AllieBaba]

"Anderson-Wiley confirmed that Miss Keeton will not be able to successfully complete the remediation plan and thus complete the (Augusta State University) counseling program unless she commits to affirming the propriety of gay and lesbian relationships if such an opportunity arises in her future professional efforts," it continued. "

"The complaint alleges Anderson-Wiley specifically told Keeton she was being asked to alter some of her beliefs. The "remediation" program included a statement that Keeton would be dismissed from the program if she chose not to comply, the lawsuit said.

"Unless and until defendant's unconstitutional speech-regulating policies and threatened … actions against Miss Keeton are enjoined, Miss Keeton will suffer and continue to suffer irreparable injury to her constitutional rights," the lawsuit said.

Among the alleged violations of the First and Fourteenth Amendments are viewpoint discrimination, compelled speech, equal protection and freedom of speech, it said.

"By conditioning Miss Keeton's continued enrollment in the (Augusta State University) school counselor master's degree program on her waiver of rights to speech and free exercise of religion … by requiring that she alter her beliefs and speech, and that she … commit to affirm in a hypothetical future context the ethical propriety of transgender and homosexual identification and behavior by others, as well as other values and behaviors she now disapproves, and which violate her religion convictions, defendants have imposed an unconstitutional condition on Miss Keeton," the complaint alleges. "

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=182441

BTW, Sky, the APA standards haven't been brought up by the school or the claimant. The ACA has. They're DIFFERENT ENTITIES. You don't have a clue what the hell you're talking about.

 

[Modbert]

Your such a twat, as usual.

The woman supports conversion therapy. That makes it relevant. Idiot.

I wonder if she supports lobotomies or castrations or other forced chemical treatments that those before her who thought Homosexuality was so wrong use to make Homosexuals do back in the 50's.

 

[Madeline]

Well, dang, I dun think there are any new points to be made, but lemme just say this:

Claiming this chick is being denied a degree cuz she is a christian is flat-out dishonest. The school has no interest in her faith; their interest in is in her mastery of the materials and future performance as a counselor. (Bear in mind, she wants to be a public school counselor; kidlets are more vulnerable than adults, and school children are assigned to counselors. )

No one else at this school with a christian faith has claimed that they felt discriminated against. Just this one chick...the one who kept shooting her mouth off about GLBT people. If you cannot cope with the needs of the public, don't seek out a career dealing with them.

But mostly I have posted so Allie will have yet another chance to call me a "facist" and neg me. You ever gonna admit that is not the correct insult, Allie?

 

[AllieBaba]

British Medical Association labels gay conversion therapy harmful, discredited

Following a year-long undercover investigation by a reporter, the British Medical Association has determined that “gay conversion therapy” is not therapy, is more harmful to patients than helpful, and should be banned.

Journalist Patrick Strudwick posed as a patient seeking “gay conversion therapy” or “reparative therapy” for a year. In his report on his experience, he described what amounted to psychological torture; Strudwick went to two conversion therapists. One, a Christian, focused on turning him to focus on her god and tried hard to convince Strudwick he’d been sexually abused. The other focused on explaining to Strudwick that he was somehow “wounded”, and that he had to find the source of those “wounds” to discover the roots of his sexuality.

Both of these “therapists” were licensed and receiving funds via the NHS. Strudwick learned that they use methods created by Joseph Nicolosi, the Christian Evangelical American founder of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.
The British Medical Association has determined that such “therapies” have been discredited, are damaging to patient, and should be banned. The Association’s membership further agreed that the NHS should investigate any cases of such conversion therapies, and terminate any public funding to such practices.

Tom Dolphin, vice-chair of BMA’s junior doctors committee, proposed the motion. “Sexuality is such a fundamental part of who a person is, that attempts to change it just result in significant confusion, depression and even suicide. You can’t just wish away same-sex attraction no matter how inconvenient it might be,” says Dolphin.
Strudwick commented on the successful motion, “My undercover investigation for The Independent, which prompted this motion, highlighted the fact that not only are psychiatrists and psychotherapists still peddling these abhorrent techniques, but that in some cases the NHS are paying for it.

“Hopefully, anyone involved in the so-called treatment of homosexuality will realize that the medical profession considers them dangerous charlatans, and will reconsider their beliefs. I also sincerely hope that any vulnerable gay person who is unhappy about their sexuality takes notice of this motion and realizes that it is the world that needs to change, not them.”

Completely irrelevant.
As usual.

Your such a twat, as usual.

The woman supports conversion therapy. That makes it relevant. Idiot.

I'm not convinced she supports conversion therapy. Please provide a link verifying that.

For the third, fourth, fifth or sixth time. I lose track. I've asked for proof in this thread and others, just as I've asked for verification of any violation of APA (or ACA) or school policies. Still haven't gotten that verification, either.

Fucking bigoted nutjobs.

 

[Modbert]

"Anderson-Wiley confirmed that Miss Keeton will not be able to successfully complete the remediation plan and thus complete the (Augusta State University) counseling program unless she commits to affirming the propriety of gay and lesbian relationships if such an opportunity arises in her future professional efforts," it continued. "

"The complaint alleges Anderson-Wiley specifically told Keeton she was being asked to alter some of her beliefs. The "remediation" program included a statement that Keeton would be dismissed from the program if she chose not to comply, the lawsuit said.

"Unless and until defendant's unconstitutional speech-regulating policies and threatened … actions against Miss Keeton are enjoined, Miss Keeton will suffer and continue to suffer irreparable injury to her constitutional rights," the lawsuit said.

Among the alleged violations of the First and Fourteenth Amendments are viewpoint discrimination, compelled speech, equal protection and freedom of speech, it said.

"By conditioning Miss Keeton's continued enrollment in the (Augusta State University) school counselor master's degree program on her waiver of rights to speech and free exercise of religion … by requiring that she alter her beliefs and speech, and that she … commit to affirm in a hypothetical future context the ethical propriety of transgender and homosexual identification and behavior by others, as well as other values and behaviors she now disapproves, and which violate her religion convictions, defendants have imposed an unconstitutional condition on Miss Keeton," the complaint alleges. "

You forgot a link there Allie, but it's okay! I ran it through google and here you go:

'Lose Christianity or face expulsion'

World Net Daily, home of the Obama birther theories and other whacked out theories.

I can see why you wouldn't want to give a link to that site, I know I'd certainly be ashamed if I had to start quoting WND.

WorldNetDaily - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AllieBaba]

Well, dang, I dun think there are any new points to be made, but lemme just say this:

Claiming this chick is being denied a degree cuz she is a christian is flat-out dishonest. The school has no interest in her faith; their interest in is in her mastery of the materials and future performance as a counselor. (Bear in mind, she wants to be a public school counselor; kidlets are more vulnerable than adults, and school children are assigned to counselors. )

No one else at this school with a christian faith has claimed that they felt discriminated against. Just this one chick...the one who kept shooting her mouth off about GLBT people. If you cannot cope with the needs of the public, don't seek out a career dealing with them.

But mostly I have posted so Allie will have yet another chance to call me a "facist" and neg me. You ever gonna admit that is not the correct insult, Allie?

Thanks for reminding me, fascist.

And it is absolutely the correct insult. Fascists always clean out the schools.

 

[Modbert]

fucking bigoted nutjobs.

 

[Coyote]

"Anderson-Wiley confirmed that Miss Keeton will not be able to successfully complete the remediation plan and thus complete the (Augusta State University) counseling program unless she commits to affirming the propriety of gay and lesbian relationships if such an opportunity arises in her future professional efforts," it continued. "

Key term: this is relevant only to her professional efforts - NOT to her beliefs - she can believe what ever the hell she wants. Just like a doctor can't suggest to a patient that they use faith healing.

 

[AllieBaba]

"Anderson-Wiley confirmed that Miss Keeton will not be able to successfully complete the remediation plan and thus complete the (Augusta State University) counseling program unless she commits to affirming the propriety of gay and lesbian relationships if such an opportunity arises in her future professional efforts," it continued. "

"The complaint alleges Anderson-Wiley specifically told Keeton she was being asked to alter some of her beliefs. The "remediation" program included a statement that Keeton would be dismissed from the program if she chose not to comply, the lawsuit said.

"Unless and until defendant's unconstitutional speech-regulating policies and threatened … actions against Miss Keeton are enjoined, Miss Keeton will suffer and continue to suffer irreparable injury to her constitutional rights," the lawsuit said.

Among the alleged violations of the First and Fourteenth Amendments are viewpoint discrimination, compelled speech, equal protection and freedom of speech, it said.

"By conditioning Miss Keeton's continued enrollment in the (Augusta State University) school counselor master's degree program on her waiver of rights to speech and free exercise of religion … by requiring that she alter her beliefs and speech, and that she … commit to affirm in a hypothetical future context the ethical propriety of transgender and homosexual identification and behavior by others, as well as other values and behaviors she now disapproves, and which violate her religion convictions, defendants have imposed an unconstitutional condition on Miss Keeton," the complaint alleges. "

You forgot a link there Allie, but it's okay! I ran it through google and here you go:

'Lose Christianity or face expulsion'

World Net Daily, home of the Obama birther theories and other whacked out theories.

I can see why you wouldn't want to give a link to that site, I know I'd certainly be ashamed if I had to start quoting WND.

WorldNetDaily - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, but you're used to being ashamed, Slobbert.

I used it because it quotes the school and her attorney.

 

[Immanuel]

No one is asking her to recant her faith you ignorant twit. She's just another Christian whiner with claims of persecution that are non-existant.

Now, neg me again since you are incapable of giving a rational argument.

The school is asking her to recant her faith. She believes that homosexuality is wrong and she believes this because of her faith and moral upbringing. Now the school is demanding that she toss that faith in the toilet.

The school is discriminating against her and people of faith.

The school should immediately lose its accreditation until it is willing to accept people of faith.

Immie

I'll repeat what Sky Dancer said:

Since she ascribes to conversion therapy, she goes against the APA which does not consider homosexuality a disorder in and of itself in need of treatment.

By supporting conversion therapy she indicates her bias. She is entitled to consider homosexuality morally wrong but she is not entitled to consider it a disorder.

I take it you have not read any of the articles where she stated that she understood that she needed to keep her personal beliefs outside of the office?

Do you really want to squelch all independent thought in psychology, science, economics, religion, medicine, etc. etc. etc? Because that is what this school is attempting to do.

This lady is 24 years old and she has a lot to learn. It is highly immoral of ASU to attempt to brainwash her into their way of thinking... HIGHLY IMMORAL. I am certain that she will grow up when she gets into the real world. She is naive to say the least, but it is immoral for this school to force her to go through brainwashing and to insist that she recant her beliefs.

Immie

 

[Modbert]

Yeah, but you're used to being ashamed, Slobbert.

I used it because it quotes the school and her attorney.

Really? Where does it quote the school for this specific case? Looks like to me it's the law firm supposedly quoting the school according to their complaint.

From your own link:

School spokeswoman Kathy Schose today declined to address the allegations in the case but agreed to discuss the counselor teaching program in general.

She cited the American Counseling Association's code of ethics and said students would be required to adopt its provisions.

"There is a code of ethics that govern counselors," she said. "They have to abide by the code of the profession."

I don't see the school quoted anywhere about the actual case.

 

[AllieBaba]

"Attorneys with the Alliance Defense Fund filed suit against Augusta State University Wednesday on behalf of a counseling student told that her Christian beliefs are unethical and incompatible with the prevailing views of the counseling profession. The student, Jennifer Keeton, has been told to stop sharing her beliefs with others and that she must change her beliefs in order to graduate from the counseling program.

Augusta State ordered Keeton to undergo a re-education plan, in which she must attend “diversity sensitivity training,” complete additional remedial reading, and write papers to describe their impact on her beliefs. If she does not change her beliefs or agree to the plan, the university says it will expel her from the Counselor Education Program."

"After her professors learned of her biblical beliefs, specifically her views on homosexual conduct, from both classroom discussions and private conversations with other students, the school imposed the re-education plan. Keeton never denigrated anyone in communicating her beliefs but merely stated factually what they were in appropriate contexts.

The plan assails Keeton’s beliefs as inconsistent with the counseling profession and expresses suspicion over “Jen’s ability to be a multiculturally competent counselor, particularly with regard to working with gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer/questioning (GLBTQ) populations.” The plan requires her to take steps to change her beliefs through additional assignments and additional “diversity sensitivity training.” It also orders her to “work to increase exposure and interactions with gay populations. One such activity could be attending the Gay Pride Parade in Augusta.”

"ADF is currently litigating a similar case involving a counseling student at Eastern Michigan University and successfully resolved a case at Missouri State University. Also in litigation is a case involving a Georgia counselor fired by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention because she would not agree to affirm homosexual behavior as morally acceptable."
ADF: Augusta State Univ. to counseling student: change your beliefs or get out - Alliance Defense Fund - Defending Our First Liberty

 

[AllieBaba]

Yeah, but you're used to being ashamed, Slobbert.

I used it because it quotes the school and her attorney.

Really? Where does it quote the school for this specific case? Looks like to me it's the law firm supposedly quoting the school according to their complaint.

From your own link:

School spokeswoman Kathy Schose today declined to address the allegations in the case but agreed to discuss the counselor teaching program in general.

She cited the American Counseling Association's code of ethics and said students would be required to adopt its provisions.

"There is a code of ethics that govern counselors," she said. "They have to abide by the code of the profession."

I don't see the school quoted anywhere about the actual case.

You're a fucking idiot.

 

[Modbert]

I take it you have not read any of the articles where she stated that she understood that she needed to keep her personal beliefs outside of the office?

Do you really want to squelch all independent thought in psychology, science, economics, religion, medicine, etc. etc. etc? Because that is what this school is attempting to do.

This lady is 24 years old and she has a lot to learn. It is highly immoral of ASU to attempt to brainwash her into their way of thinking... HIGHLY IMMORAL. I am certain that she will grow up when she gets into the real world. She is naive to say the least, but it is immoral for this school to force her to go through brainwashing and to insist that she recant her beliefs.

Immie

Except she didn't. From what I've read, she's discussed it both in the classroom and out.

Telling her to follow professional guidelines and telling her to recant her beliefs are two different things. I have a feeling if a African American said he wasn't going to perform any operations on "whitey" if he was trying to become a doctor, the reaction from the right here would be totally different. Or if a Muslim refused to treat anyone who did not believe in Allah.

 

[Modbert]

You're a fucking idiot.

The school had nothing to say about the actual case outside of explaining their general guidelines. Everything pertaining to the actual case in the WND article is in the alleged lawsuit. We've only heard one side so far, but you're more than willing to already accuse the college of brainwashing.

 

[Coyote]

Completely irrelevant.
As usual.

Your such a twat, as usual.

The woman supports conversion therapy. That makes it relevant. Idiot.

I'm not convinced she supports conversion therapy. Please provide a link verifying that.

For the third, fourth, fifth or sixth time. I lose track. I've asked for proof in this thread and others, just as I've asked for verification of any violation of APA (or ACA) or school policies. Still haven't gotten that verification, either.

Fucking bigoted nutjobs.

The affidavit also says a fellow student said Keeton "relayed her interest in conversion therapy" for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

These personal values could violate the American Counseling Association's code of ethics.