Tolerance? Not for Christians...

[Modbert]

The affidavit also says a fellow student said Keeton "relayed her interest in conversion therapy" for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

These personal values could violate the American Counseling Association's code of ethics.

The affidavit also says a fellow student said Keeton "relayed her interest in conversion therapy" for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

These personal values could violate the American Counseling Association's code of ethics.

Section A-4, b states that counselors should avoid imposing their "values attitudes and beliefs" on others.

Yup, she acted unprofessionally and unethically, it's as simple as that.

 

[AllieBaba]

"Anderson-Wiley confirmed that Miss Keeton will not be able to successfully complete the remediation plan and thus complete the (Augusta State University) counseling program unless she commits to affirming the propriety of gay and lesbian relationships if such an opportunity arises in her future professional efforts," it continued. "

Key term: this is relevant only to her professional efforts - NOT to her beliefs - she can believe what ever the hell she wants. Just like a doctor can't suggest to a patient that they use faith healing.

No shit.
So until she either states that she's going to dissuade people from being gay, or she is accused of unethical conduct, she shouldn't be drawn and quartered.

Thank you for agreeing. Because what she is being required to do is change her beliefs, and state that she has done so.

 

[AllieBaba]

The affidavit also says a fellow student said Keeton "relayed her interest in conversion therapy" for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

These personal values could violate the American Counseling Association's code of ethics.

The affidavit also says a fellow student said Keeton "relayed her interest in conversion therapy" for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

These personal values could violate the American Counseling Association's code of ethics.

Section A-4, b states that counselors should avoid imposing their "values attitudes and beliefs" on others.

Yup, she acted unprofessionally and unethically, it's as simple as that.

Really?

When?

 

[AllieBaba]

Completely irrelevant.
As usual.

Your such a twat, as usual.

The woman supports conversion therapy. That makes it relevant. Idiot.

I'm not convinced she supports conversion therapy. Please provide a link verifying that.

For the third, fourth, fifth or sixth time. I lose track. I've asked for proof in this thread and others, just as I've asked for verification of any violation of APA (or ACA) or school policies. Still haven't gotten that verification, either.

Fucking bigoted nutjobs.

I'm still waiting for the proof that she supports conversion therapy. Surprise, surprise, instead of providing a link, Slobbert just whined about irony.

So where's the evidence she supports conversion therapy?

So the thread dies.

 

[Immanuel]

I take it you have not read any of the articles where she stated that she understood that she needed to keep her personal beliefs outside of the office?

Do you really want to squelch all independent thought in psychology, science, economics, religion, medicine, etc. etc. etc? Because that is what this school is attempting to do.

This lady is 24 years old and she has a lot to learn. It is highly immoral of ASU to attempt to brainwash her into their way of thinking... HIGHLY IMMORAL. I am certain that she will grow up when she gets into the real world. She is naive to say the least, but it is immoral for this school to force her to go through brainwashing and to insist that she recant her beliefs.

Immie

Except she didn't. From what I've read, she's discussed it both in the classroom and out.

Telling her to follow professional guidelines and telling her to recant her beliefs are two different things. I have a feeling if a African American said he wasn't going to perform any operations on "whitey" if he was trying to become a doctor, the reaction from the right here would be totally different. Or if a Muslim refused to treat anyone who did not believe in Allah.

No, she discussed her beliefs in and out of the classroom, which I would think is pretty normal. She discussed her beliefs with classmates. That is normal. Maybe even when they were working on projects together.

In the articles I have read, she stated that she understood that she needed to keep her beliefs out of her practice. Now, those were articles that were written favorable to her, and maybe facts are different, but I happen to believe that she will keep her beliefs out of her practice.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with her discussing her point of view with classmates, professor or other professionals.

I do see a problem with squelching independent thought.

Immie

 

[Madeline]

I see a problem with independent thought that runs counter to the ethical and professional standards of care for the profession in question.

Why should this chick get a university Masters degree and be allowed to enter a profession when she has announced her intention to harm or neglect (or both) some of her future clients?

 

[AllieBaba]

I take it you have not read any of the articles where she stated that she understood that she needed to keep her personal beliefs outside of the office?

Do you really want to squelch all independent thought in psychology, science, economics, religion, medicine, etc. etc. etc? Because that is what this school is attempting to do.

This lady is 24 years old and she has a lot to learn. It is highly immoral of ASU to attempt to brainwash her into their way of thinking... HIGHLY IMMORAL. I am certain that she will grow up when she gets into the real world. She is naive to say the least, but it is immoral for this school to force her to go through brainwashing and to insist that she recant her beliefs.

Immie

Except she didn't. From what I've read, she's discussed it both in the classroom and out.

Telling her to follow professional guidelines and telling her to recant her beliefs are two different things. I have a feeling if a African American said he wasn't going to perform any operations on "whitey" if he was trying to become a doctor, the reaction from the right here would be totally different. Or if a Muslim refused to treat anyone who did not believe in Allah.

How true.

Which is why it's odd that you aren't bitching. Because they didn't tell her to follow professional guidelines. They told her to RECANT HER BELIEFS.

 

[AllieBaba]

I see a problem with independent thought that runs counter to the ethical and professional standards of care for the profession in question.

Why should this chick get a university Masters degree and be allowed to enter a profession when she has announced her intention to harm or neglect (or both) some of her future clients?

WHEN DID SHE DO THIS? PLEASE PROVIDE A QUOTE AND A LINK.

Lying fascist.

 

[Modbert]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with her discussing her point of view with classmates, professor or other professionals.

I do see a problem with squelching independent thought.

Immie

According to one of the above articles:

The affidavit also says a fellow student said Keeton "relayed her interest in conversion therapy" for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

These personal values could violate the American Counseling Association's code of ethics.

Section A-4, b states that counselors should avoid imposing their "values attitudes and beliefs" on others.

There is a point where it's a discussion and where you're just trying to impose her religious beliefs on others. It clearly states in the code of ethics that you're to avoid doing that.

What I find hypocritical here is we have a bunch of right wingers who are calling for Rangel's head for violating ethics laws but are more than willing to let it slide here. I'm not saying you are, but some are, and need more consistency here.

 

[AllieBaba]

An interest in conversion therapy is the same as curiosity and in NO WAY IMPLIES that she intends to go into that field.

Again. PLEASE PROVE that any of the crap you are saying about this woman is true.

I've asked repeatedly for verification of the ridiculous accusations you've made. Not once has anyone provided any.

So I'll continue to wait, I suppose.

 

[Modbert]

An interest in conversion therapy is the same as curiosity and in NO WAY IMPLIES that she intends to go into that field.

Again. PLEASE PROVE that any of the crap you are saying about this woman is true.

I've asked repeatedly for verification of the ridiculous accusations you've made. Not once has anyone provided any.

So I'll continue to wait, I suppose.

Do you just read what you want for funsies or something?

and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

Can you not read that? Perhaps if I make it bigger for you?

The affidavit also says a fellow student said Keeton "relayed her interest in conversion therapy" for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

There you go.

You should be the last person to even dare think about commenting on someone's sources. I have a news source. What do you have?

1.) A website that is on the Law center's list of hate groups, anti-semitic, homophobic, and all about white power.

2.) Another website that accuses our President of not being born in this country and at another point accused him of being a Marxist spy.

3.) Another website that accuses our President of cheating on his wife with another woman because she reminded him of his half-sister who he supposedly had sex with.

Yeah Allie, the quote about people in glass houses throwing stones applies here.

 

[Immanuel]

I see a problem with independent thought that runs counter to the ethical and professional standards of care for the profession in question.

Why should this chick get a university Masters degree and be allowed to enter a profession when she has announced her intention to harm or neglect (or both) some of her future clients?

Because so far she has not announced such intentions.

Do you think that a person who says that he does not see anything wrong with theft and tells you that someday he might steal a car, should be convicted of car theft if he has not actually committed the crime?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with her discussing her point of view with classmates, professor or other professionals.

I do see a problem with squelching independent thought.

Immie

According to one of the above articles:

The affidavit also says a fellow student said Keeton "relayed her interest in conversion therapy" for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

These personal values could violate the American Counseling Association's code of ethics.

Section A-4, b states that counselors should avoid imposing their "values attitudes and beliefs" on others.

There is a point where it's a discussion and where you're just trying to impose her religious beliefs on others. It clearly states in the code of ethics that you're to avoid doing that.

What I find hypocritical here is we have a bunch of right wingers who are calling for Rangel's head for violating ethics laws but are more than willing to let it slide here. I'm not saying you are, but some are, and need more consistency here.

I don't think I have called for Rangel's head. Did someone post in my name?

Is it a crime to think about doing something illegal or immoral?

She is 24 years old and has a lot to learn.

If she passes her courses (which I highly doubt will happen now as the school will hold this against her), gets her degree and enters the field, then I am pretty confident that she (as would every young professional in that field) will be supervised for a good while until they have proven their qualifications.

Immie

 

[Modbert]

Again, what needs to be pointed out is we've only heard from one side so far. The lawsuit that was alleged to have certain actions taken place and a bunch of right wing websites included one website with a article from a Stormfront supporter.

However, from what we've already heard from her own side, she was trying to convince her classmates to follow her religious beliefs. Precedent is clearly set where she is no longer having a discussion but trying to impose her religious values onto someone else. So how can she be trusted to not do the same in the future?

She clearly violated a ethics code from my understanding. To not like the code is one thing, to say she didn't violate it is another.

 

[Modbert]

I don't think I have called for Rangel's head. Did someone post in my name?

Is it a crime to think about doing something illegal or immoral?

She is 24 years old and has a lot to learn.

If she passes her courses (which I highly doubt will happen now as the school will hold this against her), gets her degree and enters the field, then I am pretty confident that she (as would every young professional in that field) will be supervised for a good while until they have proven their qualifications.

Immie

Take note where I said I'm not saying you are. I'm merely pointing out the hypocritical posts in this thread to begin with.

Is it a crime to think about doing something illegal or immoral? Far as I know, no. However, it is a violation of code of ethics to try and convince your classmates to believe in your religious beliefs.

That's the point here. She didn't merely just think about this.

 

[Madeline]

Immie, did she not also say she would refuse to counsel a GLBT kidlet?

 

[Immanuel]

Again, what needs to be pointed out is we've only heard from one side so far. The lawsuit that was alleged to have certain actions taken place and a bunch of right wing websites included one website with a article from a Stormfront supporter.

However, from what we've already heard from her own side, she was trying to convince her classmates to follow her religious beliefs. Precedent is clearly set where she is no longer having a discussion but trying to impose her religious values onto someone else. So how can she be trusted to not do the same in the future?

She clearly violated a ethics code from my understanding. To not like the code is one thing, to say she didn't violate it is another.

Now you want to exclude religious discussions between classmates?

A classmate either didn't like her and claimed she was trying to convert him/her or "impose her religious beliefs upon him/her" does not mean she was. I am Christian. I discuss religious topics on this board and have so with you. Have you ever felt like I was attempting to impose my beliefs on you? If so, please give an example of when I did so.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

An interest in conversion therapy is the same as curiosity and in NO WAY IMPLIES that she intends to go into that field.

Again. PLEASE PROVE that any of the crap you are saying about this woman is true.

I've asked repeatedly for verification of the ridiculous accusations you've made. Not once has anyone provided any.

So I'll continue to wait, I suppose.

Do you just read what you want for funsies or something?

and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

Can you not read that? Perhaps if I make it bigger for you?

The affidavit also says a fellow student said Keeton "relayed her interest in conversion therapy" for the gay, lesbian and transgender communities and tried to convince classmates to agree with her religious beliefs.

There you go.

You should be the last person to even dare think about commenting on someone's sources. I have a news source. What do you have?

1.) A website that is on the Law center's list of hate groups, anti-semitic, homophobic, and all about white power.

2.) Another website that accuses our President of not being born in this country and at another point accused him of being a Marxist spy.

3.) Another website that accuses our President of cheating on his wife with another woman because she reminded him of his half-sister who he supposedly had sex with.

Yeah Allie, the quote about people in glass houses throwing stones applies here.

WHERE'S THE LINK?

Other than that, I have no idea what the hell you're babbling about, and it has absolutely no relevance to this topic.

That seems to be a recurring theme.

BTW, I always have news sources. And I post them. So I used WND. I used it because they actually spoke to the school and the lawyers. Big whoop. I also used other sources.

And trying to convince CLASSMATES in a school of what is currently an unpopular idea is pretty much what school is all about. Not only that, such behavior is PROTECTED in our schools. Trying to convince classmates and saying you're going to bombard patients with the information is two different things.

Once again, please provide evidence that this woman has violated any ethical standard of the ACA. Whatever the hell the ACA is. Since nobody except Madeline and Sky have said anything about the APA.

 

[Madeline]

Immie, didn't she also take her homophobic position in class, in papers she submitted, and so forth? This didn't happen merely because another student tattled on her...she shoved the school's face in this dispute to force the issue.

I have a militant niece who'd behave exactly this way. Cannot accept authority, has to fight with her elders/teachers/etc. and usually claims to have moral and/or religious grounds for doing so. IMO, the kid should have been disciplined a bit more at home, but that's beside the point now.

What would you have the university do? Waive its graduation requirements for those claiming religious issues?

 

[Immanuel]

I don't think I have called for Rangel's head. Did someone post in my name?

Is it a crime to think about doing something illegal or immoral?

She is 24 years old and has a lot to learn.

If she passes her courses (which I highly doubt will happen now as the school will hold this against her), gets her degree and enters the field, then I am pretty confident that she (as would every young professional in that field) will be supervised for a good while until they have proven their qualifications.

Immie

Take note where I said I'm not saying you are. I'm merely pointing out the hypocritical posts in this thread to begin with.

Is it a crime to think about doing something illegal or immoral? Far as I know, no. However, it is a violation of code of ethics to try and convince your classmates to believe in your religious beliefs.

That's the point here. She didn't merely just think about this.

I had missed that last sentence.

Has she violated the APA's code of ethics yet? Whoa, whoa, whoa, where do you see this in the APA's code of ethics? "it is a violation of code of ethics to try and convince your classmates to believe in your religious beliefs."

Please show me where it is a violation of the code of ethics either among the APA or even a "student's code of ethics".

Back to what I was going to say... has she violated the APA's ethics so for or simply inquired about a form of therapy that the APA thinks is harmful? If you cannot arrest someone for thinking about committing a crime, you cannot charge someone with a violation of the ethics code for thinking about violating it or asking about it.

Immie