Tolerance? Not for Christians...

[Immanuel]

Immie, did she not also say she would refuse to counsel a GLBT kidlet?

I have not seen anything indicating that she did. Do you have a link supporting that?

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

immie, didn't she also take her homophobic position in class, in papers she submitted, and so forth? This didn't happen merely because another student tattled on her...she shoved the school's face in this dispute to force the issue.

I have a militant niece who'd behave exactly this way. Cannot accept authority, has to fight with her elders/teachers/etc. And usually claims to have moral and/or religious grounds for doing so. Imo, the kid should have been disciplined a bit more at home, but that's beside the point now.

What would you have the university do? Waive its graduation requirements for those claiming religious issues?

please submit evidence of homophobia. With a link.

 

[AllieBaba]

immie, did she not also say she would refuse to counsel a glbt kidlet?

i have not seen anything indicating that she did. Do you have a link supporting that?

Immie

madeline is just making stuff up. It's what she does.

 

[jillian]

I'm wondering how it prohibited someone's religious practice not to be able to discriminate.

And when did it become a requirement that anyone tolerate anyone else's bigotry?

Last I checked, there was nothing in the practice of christianity which requored one to be a homophobe.

*shrug*

 

[Immanuel]

Immie, didn't she also take her homophobic position in class, in papers she submitted, and so forth? This didn't happen merely because another student tattled on her...she shoved the school's face in this dispute to force the issue.

I have a militant niece who'd behave exactly this way. Cannot accept authority, has to fight with her elders/teachers/etc. and usually claims to have moral and/or religious grounds for doing so. IMO, the kid should have been disciplined a bit more at home, but that's beside the point now.

What would you have the university do? Waive its graduation requirements for those claiming religious issues?

As far as I know, yes, she did discuss her beliefs about homosexuality, although, I would not classify her viewpoints as being homophobic. In this case, that is a ridiculous classification. Being opposed to something does not equate to being afraid of it.

Shoved the school's face in it? Please, since when does having a discussion about something equate to shoving someone's face in it? We are having a friendly discussion in which I disagree with you, Coyote and Modbert. Am I shoving your faces in it? Also, ASU is supposed to be an institute of higher education. They should welcome the thought process even if they do not agree with it. They are there to teach not indoctrinate.

No one is asking the university to waive any requirements that were established at the time of admittance. I highly doubt that complete agreement with all things taught was listed as a requirement for graduation. You went to school, did they tell you that you had to swear on a stack of Bibles that you agreed with everything your professors told you from admittance through graduation?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I'm wondering how it prohibited someone's religious practice not to be able to discriminate.

And when did it become a requirement that anyone tolerate anyone else's bigotry?

Last I checked, there was nothing in the practice of christianity which requored one to be a homophobe.

*shrug*

Homophobe? Come on Jillian, that is beneath you.

Since when does not believing something make you a ...phobe?

Do I have some kind of phobia of you because you are Jewish and I don't believe in your faith? Does that make me Anti-Semitic?

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm wondering how it prohibited someone's religious practice not to be able to discriminate.

And when did it become a requirement that anyone tolerate anyone else's bigotry?

Last I checked, there was nothing in the practice of christianity which requored one to be a homophobe.

*shrug*

There isn't.
And she isn't.
She hasn't declared she dislikes homosexuals. She hasn't stated she won't treat homosexuals, or that she would treat them using method frowned upon by the ACA.
She hasn't in any way evidenced bigotry against homosexuals.

She simply doesn't agree with the CURRENTLY TOUTED theory that homosexuality is a "state of being". Pretty simple. At one time, she would have been pilloried because she didn't think homosexuality was a mental illness (which she doesn't believe, either, according to the material we have available). She thinks it's a choice. Big whoop, lots of people think that. Doctors believe it, genetecists believe it, jet pilots believe it, many gays believe it.

So what? How does that make them homophobic?

It doesn't. It's just that anyone who doesnt' agree with the prescribed mantra must be villified. Anyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist. And anyone who dares to think homosexuality is a choice is a homophobe.

It's ridiculous and a sign that our society is being taken over by fascists.

 

[jillian]

I'm wondering how it prohibited someone's religious practice not to be able to discriminate.

And when did it become a requirement that anyone tolerate anyone else's bigotry?

Last I checked, there was nothing in the practice of christianity which requored one to be a homophobe.

*shrug*

Homophobe? Come on Jillian, that is beneath you.

Since when does not believing something make you a ...phobe?

Do I have some kind of phobia of you because you are Jewish and I don't believe in your faith? Does that make me Anti-Semitic?

Immie

no one has to 'believe' in gays. they exist.

so i'm not quite sure what point you're making.

 

[AllieBaba]

I'm wondering how it prohibited someone's religious practice not to be able to discriminate.

And when did it become a requirement that anyone tolerate anyone else's bigotry?

Last I checked, there was nothing in the practice of christianity which requored one to be a homophobe.

*shrug*

Homophobe? Come on Jillian, that is beneath you.

Since when does not believing something make you a ...phobe?

Do I have some kind of phobia of you because you are Jewish and I don't believe in your faith? Does that make me Anti-Semitic?

Immie

no one has to 'believe' in gays. they exist.

so i'm not quite sure what point you're making.

That's obvious. He's saying since when does not believing a theory about causation mean somebody hates a group of people?

 

[Madeline]

Immie, didn't she also take her homophobic position in class, in papers she submitted, and so forth? This didn't happen merely because another student tattled on her...she shoved the school's face in this dispute to force the issue.

I have a militant niece who'd behave exactly this way. Cannot accept authority, has to fight with her elders/teachers/etc. and usually claims to have moral and/or religious grounds for doing so. IMO, the kid should have been disciplined a bit more at home, but that's beside the point now.

What would you have the university do? Waive its graduation requirements for those claiming religious issues?

As far as I know, yes, she did discuss her beliefs about homosexuality, although, I would not classify her viewpoints as being homophobic. In this case, that is a ridiculous classification. Being opposed to something does not equate to being afraid of it.

Shoved the school's face in it? Please, since when does having a discussion about something equate to shoving someone's face in it? We are having a friendly discussion in which I disagree with you, Coyote and Modbert. Am I shoving your faces in it? Also, ASU is supposed to be an institute of higher education. They should welcome the thought process even if they do not agree with it. They are there to teach not indoctrinate.

No one is asking the university to waive any requirements that were established at the time of admittance. I highly doubt that complete agreement with all things taught was listed as a requirement for graduation. You went to school, did they tell you that you had to swear on a stack of Bibles that you agreed with everything your professors told you from admittance through graduation?

Immie

*Laughs*

Immie, my professors spent three years telling us we were all dumb asses who knew nothing. If I had wandered off into a discussion about communist theories of property rights during class, I'd have been in deep shit. If I had clung to such notions, I'd never have graduated, never mind get admitted.

Mebbe your POV on Judaism would be relevant if you were trying to get a Masters in Jewish Studies, Immie. This chick wants to be a school kid's counselor but rejects the professional standards for treating GLBT kids, their friends, families and school mates. I'd say the school MUST disqualify her as long as she stubbornly refuses to agree to treat such folks in a manner that comports with the code and standards during her professional day.

 

[Modbert]

Does that make me Anti-Semitic?

Immie

Nope. But be forewarned, the OP sources that certain people are basing their information off of is.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/126774-tolerance-not-for-christians-6.html

Post #76.

Your welcome.

 

[Immanuel]

I'm wondering how it prohibited someone's religious practice not to be able to discriminate.

And when did it become a requirement that anyone tolerate anyone else's bigotry?

Last I checked, there was nothing in the practice of christianity which requored one to be a homophobe.

*shrug*

Homophobe? Come on Jillian, that is beneath you.

Since when does not believing something make you a ...phobe?

Do I have some kind of phobia of you because you are Jewish and I don't believe in your faith? Does that make me Anti-Semitic?

Immie

no one has to 'believe' in gays. they exist.

so i'm not quite sure what point you're making.

I didn't say you have to believe in gays. I asked since when does not believing in something make one a ...phobe and I used the differences in our two faiths as an example.

The point can easily be applied to homosexuality and the term homophobe. Since when does the fact that someone thinks homosexuality is a choice make that person a homophobe? It doesn't.

The word homophobe is just a childish attempt to demean those that you do not agree with.

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

Madeline uses the term "homophobe" to describe Christians.

But then, she also thinks the state should remove the children of people who take their kids to church.

 

[Madeline]

I'd be surprised if any but a small minority of christians were homophobes.

For example:

Lutheran church welcoming gay pastors who earlier were barred | cleveland.com

United Methodists decline to act against transgender clergy | cleveland.com

I'd also be surprised if any but a small minority of American GLBT people were not christians.

 

[Immanuel]

Immie, didn't she also take her homophobic position in class, in papers she submitted, and so forth? This didn't happen merely because another student tattled on her...she shoved the school's face in this dispute to force the issue.

I have a militant niece who'd behave exactly this way. Cannot accept authority, has to fight with her elders/teachers/etc. and usually claims to have moral and/or religious grounds for doing so. IMO, the kid should have been disciplined a bit more at home, but that's beside the point now.

What would you have the university do? Waive its graduation requirements for those claiming religious issues?

As far as I know, yes, she did discuss her beliefs about homosexuality, although, I would not classify her viewpoints as being homophobic. In this case, that is a ridiculous classification. Being opposed to something does not equate to being afraid of it.

Shoved the school's face in it? Please, since when does having a discussion about something equate to shoving someone's face in it? We are having a friendly discussion in which I disagree with you, Coyote and Modbert. Am I shoving your faces in it? Also, ASU is supposed to be an institute of higher education. They should welcome the thought process even if they do not agree with it. They are there to teach not indoctrinate.

No one is asking the university to waive any requirements that were established at the time of admittance. I highly doubt that complete agreement with all things taught was listed as a requirement for graduation. You went to school, did they tell you that you had to swear on a stack of Bibles that you agreed with everything your professors told you from admittance through graduation?

Immie

*Laughs*

Immie, my professors spent three years telling us we were all dumb asses who knew nothing. If I had wandered off into a discussion about communist theories of property rights during class, I'd have been in deep shit. If I had clung to such notions, I'd never have graduated, never mind get admitted.

Mebbe your POV on Judaism would be relevant if you were trying to get a Masters in Jewish Studies, Immie. This chick wants to be a school kid's counselor but rejects the professional standards for treating GLBT kids, their friends, families and school mates. I'd say the school MUST disqualify her as long as she stubbornly refuses to agree to treat such folks in a manner that comports with the code and standards during her professional day.

Rejects?

She has commented in class about her point of view. She has spoken with "friends" outside of class about her point of view. That does not equate to rejection.

I ask questions all the time. I discuss things like the Arizona Immigration Law which I have not yet figured out all the time. Do my statements that I think that law might lead to racial profiling constitute a rejection of the law?

I discuss things all the time. That is one of the reasons you have to put up with me. I come here to learn about other people's points of view. I discuss things all the time. I have had several discussions recently about race, racism and the NAACP. Those discussions do not mean that I am a racist even though I cannot be declared a fan of the NAACP.

Her having a discussion about conversion therapy is nothing more than having a discussion. It does not mean she is going to go out and attempt conversion therapy.

Immie

 

[Madeline]

Mebbe so, mebbe not, Immie. Here's where a full airing of the facts would come in handy.

 

[Immanuel]

Mebbe so, mebbe not, Immie. Here's where a full airing of the facts would come in handy.

Well, it seems the university is not going to air the facts and maybe they should not, but unfortunately, that means they have the ability and the right to expel her and by the time the facts are exposed, her life is ruined and completing school out of the question.

Immie

 

[Madeline]

Universities have a review process, Immie, and she has sought redress in the courts. I dun think her life will be ruined.

 

[AllieBaba]

Mebbe so, mebbe not, Immie. Here's where a full airing of the facts would come in handy.

Any facts at all would be nice, Madeline. Why don't you post some? I have. So has Immie.

 

[AllieBaba]

Universities have a review process, Immie, and she has sought redress in the courts. I dun think her life will be ruined.

Whether or not her life is ruined, her civil and human rights were violated. Lots of people have their civil and human rights violated without having it ruin the rest of their lives. So does that mean it's okay to violate civil and human rights? Oh, wait...Madeline thinks it is. I forgot who I was speaking to.