There goes that 'there are no victims in homosexuality' argument...

[GotZoom]

In this case, I have to agree with your interpretation. Perhaps NE wants to rethink this?

I hope so.

 

[dmp]

1. If you molest children, and those children happen to be of the same sex as you, you're not necessarily gay, you might be plain insane. You'll find that most that molest little boys molest little girls (too). The number of 'gays' that molest kids is recorded simply because a man molested a boy, which is reductionist and doesn't necessarily mean he is gay. Obviously this is nitpicky, but its just one bulletin.

...but of course that makes one 'gay'. gay = homosexual. Homosexuality is 'engaging in sex acts with a member of the same gender'. By default men who molest boys are homoseuxal - or at least enjoy homosexual conduct.

Disclaimer: Obviously I'm not trying to say gay molesters aren't to blame for their actions; but they're only human, and this is a very plausible possible reason for the uneven numbers.

I believe it's not plausible.

 

[Said1]

Disclaimer: Obviously I'm not trying to say gay molesters aren't to blame for their actions; but they're only human, and this is a very plausible possible reason for the uneven numbers.

That's pretty twisted. PLEASE elaborate.

 

[MissileMan]

How about for the logical reason that the Left has something against the Catholic Church? Yes, you do have something against the church. So in addition to your pedophilia problem, you gays have a religious bigotry problem to boot. So now you have two problems. On the other hand, the Catholic Church doesn't hate you, it reaches out to gays (although it does not condone their lifestyle) and is the largest caregiver of HIV/AIDS victims on the planet.

Let's break this down point by point.
!. You were the one who was trying to equate being a priest with being a homosexual or heterosexual. I pointed out that your comparison was illogical and you go on some rant about the Catholic church.

2. I'm not gay, I'm not a liberal, I'm not anti-Catholic. I do speak out against the religious people who disparage and discriminate against homosexuals because along with their biblical references, there is a tendency to spout pure bullshit, for instance, that homosexuals are more likely to be pedophiles.

So considering that gays are at most 5 percent of the population, they still are more likely to molest children that heterosexuals.

Do the math

Gays = 5% = 1/20 = 0.05

Straights = 95% = 19/20 = 0.95

so if x is the number of children molested by gays and 7x is the number of kids molested by straights

then per capita molestation by gays = x/.05 = 20x (20 kids molested per gay person)

per capita molestation by straights = x/.95 = 1.05x (1.05 kids molested per straight person)

I take it back, you don't have a pink elephant, you have a big red gorilla the size of King Kong in your living room.....

Your little formula is cute, but wrong. It doesn't account for the percentage of molestations that are committed by homopeds vs. heteropeds. It is a fact, that can be proven with the data available, that the incidence of pedophilia among gays is only slightly higher than it is among heteros. So the pink elephant and red gorilla are figments of your imagination.

 

[dmp]

Your little formula is cute, but wrong. It doesn't account for the percentage of molestations that are committed by homopeds vs. heteropeds. It is a fact, that can be proven with the data available, that the incidence of pedophilia among gays is only slightly higher than it is among heteros. So the pink elephant and red gorilla are figments of your imagination.

Why do you refuse truth? The math shows EXACTLY the fact "Homosexuals, as a group, have a MUCH higher rate of child molesters than Heteros, as a group"

 

[MissileMan]

Why do you refuse truth? The math shows EXACTLY the fact "Homosexuals, as a group, have a MUCH higher rate of child molesters than Heteros, as a group"

Look, it's simple math, no spin, no bullshit.

25-40% of molestation are of the homosexual variety. Pedophiles of the homosexual variety have 7 times as many victims as heterosexual ones. When you account for the disparity in the number of victims and divide the 25-40 percent by 7, you get an incidence rate of anywhere from 3 to 10% which is within the range or slightly higher than the incidence of homosexuals within the population.

The bottom line that most here can't seem to grasp is that there is a difference between a homosexual and a pedophile, just as there is a difference between a heterosexual and a pedophile. This is the same kind of flawed logic that leads people to say most Muslims are terrorists and most liberals are atheists.

 

[Hobbit]

Look, it's simple math, no spin, no bullshit.

25-40% of molestation are of the homosexual variety. Pedophiles of the homosexual variety have 7 times as many victims as heterosexual ones. When you account for the disparity in the number of victims and divide the 25-40 percent by 7, you get an incidence rate of anywhere from 3 to 10% which is within the range or slightly higher than the incidence of homosexuals within the population.

The bottom line that most here can't seem to grasp is that there is a difference between a homosexual and a pedophile, just as there is a difference between a heterosexual and a pedophile. This is the same kind of flawed logic that leads people to say most Muslims are terrorists and most liberals are atheists.

So, the homosexual pedophiles are more aggresive? I still see this as a problem. I'd also like to see a to that.

However, *my* opinion as to the source of the problem is probably something everyone can swallow. Homosexuals are sexual deviants, going aginst normal sexual behavior. Having crossed that line, it's not as much of a step for them to cross into pedophilia. Now, just like with pot, there are two schools of thought here. One group says that legalizing and legitimizing will remove its status as deviant and thus decrease the incident of the behavior leading to more deviant behavior. The other schools states that this behavior will always be deviant, and that legalization and legitimization will only increase the occurance of the behavior, while failing to diminish its link to other behavior. I am of the second school, but that's just me.

 

[MissileMan]

So, the homosexual pedophiles are more aggresive? I still see this as a problem. I'd also like to see a to that.

Go back through the thread, the info is there near the beginning. The info was posted by PR.

 

[KarlMarx]

Look, it's simple math, no spin, no bullshit.

25-40% of molestation are of the homosexual variety. Pedophiles of the homosexual variety have 7 times as many victims as heterosexual ones. When you account for the disparity in the number of victims and divide the 25-40 percent by 7, you get an incidence rate of anywhere from 3 to 10% which is within the range or slightly higher than the incidence of homosexuals within the population.

The bottom line that most here can't seem to grasp is that there is a difference between a homosexual and a pedophile, just as there is a difference between a heterosexual and a pedophile. This is the same kind of flawed logic that leads people to say most Muslims are terrorists and most liberals are atheists.

OK... I stand corrected, I made an error.... here's the correct match


Gays = 5% of the population = 1/20 = 0.05

Straights = 95% of the population = 19/20 = 0.95

so if x is the number of children molested by gays and 7x is the number of kids molested by straights

then per capita molestation by gays = x/.05 = 20x (20 kids molested per gay person)

per capita molestation by straights = 7x/.95 = 7.4x (7.4 kids molested per straight person)

20x/7.4x = 2.7 times

so the difference is nearly 3:1. Gays still come out way ahead (if that's how you want to consider it).

The big red gorilla is still there, but he's the size of a house, now.

 

[MissileMan]

OK... I stand corrected, I made an error.... here's the correct match


Gays = 5% of the population = 1/20 = 0.05

Straights = 95% of the population = 19/20 = 0.95

so if x is the number of children molested by gays and 7x is the number of kids molested by straights

then per capita molestation by gays = x/.05 = 20x (20 kids molested per gay person)

per capita molestation by straights = 7x/.95 = 7.4x (7.4 kids molested per straight person)

20x/7.4x = 2.7 times

so the difference is nearly 3:1. Gays still come out way ahead (if that's how you want to consider it).

The big red gorilla is still there, but he's the size of a house, now.

Your figures would be correct IF, the number of victims were split 50/50. The fact is that only 1 in 4 are victims of homopeds which coincidently is your same 3:1 ratio, except in the opposite direction.

 

[mattskramer]

I have 2 words for you: So what?!? Let's assume, for the sake of argument that there is a correlation between homosexuality and child molestation. Are we to send all homosexuals to "treatment camps" to be "cured" whether they want to go or not?

If and when they are converted to heterosexuality, will their treatment prevent them form molesting female children? What about the peaceful and contented homosexual who do not engage in child molestation? It has been argued that people who buy pornographic magazines engage in abusive behavior to a greater degree than do those who don't buy porn. Therefore, are we to outlaw pornography?

I think that we should punish/treat the real criminals (child molesters and rapists) and not punish the non-criminal (the non-abusive homosexual).

 

[KarlMarx]

Your figures would be correct IF, the number of victims were split 50/50. The fact is that only 1 in 4 are victims of homopeds which coincidently is your same 3:1 ratio, except in the opposite direction.

No, the calculations are correct if you assume that heterosexuals molest 7 times the number of children as gays.

The per capita rate is the issue here.

As for the "so what" question asked by MattsKramer, no I am not suggesting that we herd all gays into concentration camps. What I did say in a previous post is this.... if the Catholic Church has had its feet held to the fire because of pedophile priests, then in all fairness, so should the gay community and the justice system.

Two facts are making themselves clear....

a) There is a higher possibility that gays molest children. The gay community should address the issue of pedophiles in their midst and clean house. Instead of bashing the Church, the gay leadership should be taking steps to out those in its midst who are known pedophiles (and they do know who many of them are). However, the gay community sees bashing the Church as serving the agenda of the gay movement. That is pretty short sighted. This strategy will eventually backfire and the gays will be in the same position as the Church was, trying to defend themselves against stigmatization and explaining themselves.
b) Molesters are not curable, and should be confined to institutions or jails for the remainder of their lives. This is not to punish them as much as it is to protect children.

The protection of children's welfare should supersede the rights of pedophiles and the protection of gays. That should be a given. It isn't gay bashing to present the facts then act on them. If the gay community has this problem then it is up to them, and society at large to do something about it. Instead it's just Politics and Political Correctness as usual. Nero fiddles and Rome burns...

 

[MissileMan]

No, the calculations are correct if you assume that heterosexuals molest 7 times the number of children as gays.

The per capita rate is the issue here.

As for the "so what" question asked by MattsKramer, no I am not suggesting that we herd all gays into concentration camps. What I did say in a previous post is this.... if the Catholic Church has had its feet held to the fire because of pedophile priests, then in all fairness, so should the gay community and the justice system.

Two facts are making themselves clear....

a) There is a higher possibility that gays molest children. The gay community should address the issue of pedophiles in their midst and clean house. Instead of bashing the Church, the gay leadership should be taking steps to out those in its midst who are known pedophiles (and they do know who many of them are). However, the gay community sees bashing the Church as serving the agenda of the gay movement. That is pretty short sighted. This strategy will eventually backfire and the gays will be in the same position as the Church was, trying to defend themselves against stigmatization and explaining themselves.
b) Molesters are not curable, and should be confined to institutions or jails for the remainder of their lives. This is not to punish them as much as it is to protect children.

The protection of children's welfare should supersede the rights of pedophiles and the protection of gays. That should be a given. It isn't gay bashing to present the facts then act on them. If the gay community has this problem then it is up to them, and society at large to do something about it. Instead it's just Politics and Political Correctness as usual. Nero fiddles and Rome burns...

Noone is saying that pedophilia isn't a problem that needs to be addressed. Your continued insistence that the incidence of pedophilia is significantly higher among homosexuals than among heterosexuals, even when presented with irrefutable numbers to the contrary, is an indication that you are more concerned with trying to put homosexuality in a bad light than actually addressing the problem of pedophilia. If you want to talk about staggering numbers, how about the fact that 75% of molestations are adult males molesting little girls. The even bigger number that you and others keep ignoring is that 100% of molestations are committed by pedophiles.

 

[KarlMarx]

Noone is saying that pedophilia isn't a problem that needs to be addressed. Your continued insistence that the incidence of pedophilia is significantly higher among homosexuals than among heterosexuals, even when presented with irrefutable numbers to the contrary, is an indication that you are more concerned with trying to put homosexuality in a bad light than actually addressing the problem of pedophilia. If you want to talk about staggering numbers, how about the fact that 75% of molestations are adult males molesting little girls. The even bigger number that you and others keep ignoring is that 100% of molestations are committed by pedophiles.

MM - I am not denying that the majority of molestations are caused by straights. However, you are the one who stated that heterosexuals molested 7 times more children than gays. I simply used a known fact that gays are, at most, 5% of the population, then did the math. I'm not "insisting" anything. No matter how you bend it, the numbers are there, a gay person is 2.7 times more likely to molest a child than a straight person. Whether you wish to call them "pedophiles", "gays", or "martians from outer space" is totally irrelevant. The "irrefutable" part is the math.

Statistics damn the homosexual lifestyle, not me. I can also cite numbers from the CDC (i.e. Centers for Disease Control) that show, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that most cases of HIV/AIDS in this country are suffered by gay/bisexual men and intravenous drug abusers. I am simply stating a fact.

As for your accusation that I am ignoring the fact that all molestations are caused by pedophiles, what do you think I meant when I posted that convicted pedophiles should be incarcerated or institutionalized for life? Are you under the delusion that I was talking about gays only? I didn't post "we should incarcerate gays for life", I didn't post "we should incarcerate gay pedophiles for life", what part of "pedophile" did you misinterpret as "gay pedophiles" or "gays in general"?

This is the problem with you liberals, when presented with facts, you perseverate, you deny, you spin, you manufacture increasing warped and twisted definitions and engage in subterfuge and sophistry to prove your points. All the time, you corkscrew yourselves right into the ground.

 

[MissileMan]

MM - I am not denying that the majority of molestations are caused by straights. However, you are the one who stated that heterosexuals molested 7 times more children than gays. I simply used a known fact that gays are, at most, 5% of the population, then did the math. I'm not "insisting" anything. No matter how you bend it, the numbers are there, a gay person is 2.7 times more likely to molest a child than a straight person. Whether you wish to call them "pedophiles", "gays", or "martians from outer space" is totally irrelevant. The "irrefutable" part is the math.

One last time, because you are still using the wrong figures. Among pedophiles, the males who molest boys will have 7 times the number of victims as males who molest girls. The 25% of the male on boy molestations are being perpetrated by 1/7 the number of pedophiles. Out of 100 victims, 3.6 male on boy pedophiles would account for the 25%, with the remaining 75 male on girl molestation committed by 75 pedophiles. This comes out to 4.8% of the pedophiles are male on boy.

As for your accusation that I am ignoring the fact that all molestations are caused by pedophiles, what do you think I meant when I posted that convicted pedophiles should be incarcerated or institutionalized for life? Are you under the delusion that I was talking about gays only? I didn't post "we should incarcerate gays for life", I didn't post "we should incarcerate gay pedophiles for life", what part of "pedophile" did you misinterpret as "gay pedophiles" or "gays in general"?

Until you are willing to admit a distinction between homosexual and pedophile, you are ignoring facts. Gay pedophiles are separate from "normal" homosexuals.

This is the problem with you liberals, when presented with facts, you perseverate, you deny, you spin, you manufacture increasing warped and twisted definitions and engage in subterfuge and sophistry to prove your points. All the time, you corkscrew yourselves right into the ground.

Same old crap...can't refute an argument, call someone a liberal. BORING!

 

[mattskramer]

Two facts are making themselves clear....

a) There is a higher possibility that gays molest children. The gay community should address the issue of pedophiles in their midst and clean house. Instead of bashing the Church, the gay leadership should be taking steps to out those in its midst who are known pedophiles (and they do know who many of them are). However, the gay community sees bashing the Church as serving the agenda of the gay movement. That is pretty short sighted. This strategy will eventually backfire and the gays will be in the same position as the Church was, trying to defend themselves against stigmatization and explaining themselves.
b) Molesters are not curable, and should be confined to institutions or jails for the remainder of their lives. This is not to punish them as much as it is to protect children.

The protection of children's welfare should supersede the rights of pedophiles and the protection of gays. That should be a given. It isn't gay bashing to present the facts then act on them. If the gay community has this problem then it is up to them, and society at large to do something about it. Instead it's just Politics and Political Correctness as usual. Nero fiddles and Rome burns...

Fair enough. I agree with your (b) paragraph. Molesters should be locked up. I disagree with part of your (a) paragraph. I doubt that homosexuals know who many of the child molesters are. I think that people (homosexuals or heterosexuals) would report on child molesters (homosexual or heterosexual) if such molesters are discovered.

 

[KarlMarx]

One last time, because you are still using the wrong figures. Among pedophiles, the males who molest boys will have 7 times the number of victims as males who molest girls. The 25% of the male on boy molestations are being perpetrated by 1/7 the number of pedophiles. Out of 100 victims, 3.6 male on boy pedophiles would account for the 25%, with the remaining 75 male on girl molestation committed by 75 pedophiles. This comes out to 4.8% of the pedophiles are male on boy.



Until you are willing to admit a distinction between homosexual and pedophile, you are ignoring facts. Gay pedophiles are separate from "normal" homosexuals.


Same old crap...can't refute an argument, call someone a liberal. BORING!

At this point of the discussion, the following rule applies....

Never argue with a fool. Others may not be able to tell the difference.

I've finished arguing.....

 

[Hobbit]

At this point of the discussion, the following rule applies....

Never argue with a fool. Others may not be able to tell the difference.

I've finished arguing.....

Read my sig. Not the part about video games, the other part.

 

[MissileMan]

At this point of the discussion, the following rule applies....

Never argue with a fool. Others may not be able to tell the difference.

Thanks for the advice, but I don't think your are a fool, only a poor mathmetician. Come back when working with numbers bigger than ten doesn't involve taking off your shoes and I'll try to explain it again.

 

[archangel]

Thanks for the advice, but I don't think your are a fool, only a poor mathmetician. Come back when working with numbers bigger than ten doesn't involve taking off your shoes and I'll try to explain it again.

Before you make a total fool of yourself...reevaluate your argument..Karl Marks took the argument beyond simple math as you cited...he took it to the level of statistical analysis...that being the ration of pedophiles in the homosexual community vs the ratio of pedophiles in the hetrosexual community...fact is the ratio is much higher in the homosexual community..they are in fact a extremely lower number in the world population...yet have a much higher rate of pedophiles in relation to their overall numbers..... :spank3: