There goes that 'there are no victims in homosexuality' argument...

[Isaac Brock]

MM - I am not denying that the majority of molestations are caused by straights. However, you are the one who stated that heterosexuals molested 7 times more children than gays. I simply used a known fact that gays are, at most, 5% of the population, then did the math. I'm not "insisting" anything. No matter how you bend it, the numbers are there, a gay person is 2.7 times more likely to molest a child than a straight person. Whether you wish to call them "pedophiles", "gays", or "martians from outer space" is totally irrelevant. The "irrefutable" part is the math.

Statistics damn the homosexual lifestyle, not me. I can also cite numbers from the CDC (i.e. Centers for Disease Control) that show, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that most cases of HIV/AIDS in this country are suffered by gay/bisexual men and intravenous drug abusers. I am simply stating a fact.

As for your accusation that I am ignoring the fact that all molestations are caused by pedophiles, what do you think I meant when I posted that convicted pedophiles should be incarcerated or institutionalized for life? Are you under the delusion that I was talking about gays only? I didn't post "we should incarcerate gays for life", I didn't post "we should incarcerate gay pedophiles for life", what part of "pedophile" did you misinterpret as "gay pedophiles" or "gays in general"?

This is the problem with you liberals, when presented with facts, you perseverate, you deny, you spin, you manufacture increasing warped and twisted definitions and engage in subterfuge and sophistry to prove your points. All the time, you corkscrew yourselves right into the ground.

Fair enough, I think we can all agree that if one compares heterosexuals and homosexuals there at least for now appears to be enough evidence that homoesexuals on a per individual basis have a higher likelihood of pedophillic offenses. And sure, we'll say 2.7 times more likely.

But what of the vast majority that do not? I think we can also agree that most homosexuals would like to have absolutely nothing to do with pedophillia, yet the OP suggests that this confirms the connection between homosexuality and pedophilla.

At what point do we sound the alarm, 1.3 times? 1.7 times? 3.0 times?

A gun owner is X times more likely to committ murder than a non-one, do we then draw similar entensions? Extending the minute to the whole is not only mathematically irrseponsible, but does disservice to an entire segment of the populations, much like the priests and pedophillia scandal, must of which are just as disgusted as the rest of us.

 

[MissileMan]

Before you make a total fool of yourself...reevaluate your argument..Karl Marks took the argument beyond simple math as you cited...he took it to the level of statistical analysis...that being the ration of pedophiles in the homosexual community vs the ratio of pedophiles in the hetrosexual community...fact is the ratio is much higher in the homosexual community..they are in fact a extremely lower number in the world population...yet have a much higher rate of pedophiles in relation to their overall numbers..... :spank3:

The FACT, that the numbers bear out, when ALL the information is accounted for is that among pedophiles, 5-10 % target boys. The incidence of homosexuals in the mainstream population is around 5%. Your statement that the ratio is much higher in the homosexual community is inaccurate based on the numbers, but more importantly because pedophiles are neither homosexual or heterosexual, they are pedophiles. Some pedophiles target children of the same sex, some target the opposite sex, and then others target either, like that monster in Idaho. None of those scenarios makes pedophilia equal with homosexuality. heterosexuality, or bi-sexuality. I'm pretty sure you are smart enough to understand the difference between a pedophile and a homosexual.

 

[OCA]

The FACT, that the numbers bear out, when ALL the information is accounted for is that among pedophiles, 5-10 % target boys. The incidence of homosexuals in the mainstream population is around 5%. Your statement that the ratio is much higher in the homosexual community is inaccurate based on the numbers, but more importantly because pedophiles are neither homosexual or heterosexual, they are pedophiles. Some pedophiles target children of the same sex, some target the opposite sex, and then others target either, like that monster in Idaho. None of those scenarios makes pedophilia equal with homosexuality. heterosexuality, or bi-sexuality. I'm pretty sure you are smart enough to understand the difference between a pedophile and a homosexual.

Missle are you retarded? The population ratio alone with regards to pedophilia in the homosexual population vs the heterosexual population is irrefuteable proof alone that pedophilia runs much higher in the homosexual population than heterosexual.

And yes, if you bone someone of the same sex regardless of age you are queer, this crap about pedophiles are just pedophiles regardless of the sex they are with is bogus psychobabble.

 

[MissileMan]

I'm pretty sure you are smart enough to understand the difference between a pedophile and a homosexual.

Missle are you retarded? The population ratio alone with regards to pedophilia in the homosexual population vs the heterosexual population is irrefuteable proof alone that pedophilia runs much higher in the homosexual population than heterosexual.

And yes, if you bone someone of the same sex regardless of age you are queer, this crap about pedophiles are just pedophiles regardless of the sex they are with is bogus psychobabble.

Ok, so I was wrong...you aren't smart enough.

 

[OCA]

Ok, so I was wrong...you aren't smart enough.

Jesus Christ you are fucking stupid, does someone have to wipe your ass for you too?

 

[archangel]

The FACT, that the numbers bear out, when ALL the information is accounted for is that among pedophiles, 5-10 % target boys. The incidence of homosexuals in the mainstream population is around 5%. Your statement that the ratio is much higher in the homosexual community is inaccurate based on the numbers, but more importantly because pedophiles are neither homosexual or heterosexual, they are pedophiles. Some pedophiles target children of the same sex, some target the opposite sex, and then others target either, like that monster in Idaho. None of those scenarios makes pedophilia equal with homosexuality. heterosexuality, or bi-sexuality. I'm pretty sure you are smart enough to understand the difference between a pedophile and a homosexual.[/QUOTE


well golly gee Mr.Wizard...as I have stated many times in this forum...I was a investigator of "Child Porn" cases...and what have you done except try to discredit me and others with actual experience in this field?

 

[MissileMan]

The FACT, that the numbers bear out, when ALL the information is accounted for is that among pedophiles, 5-10 % target boys. The incidence of homosexuals in the mainstream population is around 5%. Your statement that the ratio is much higher in the homosexual community is inaccurate based on the numbers, but more importantly because pedophiles are neither homosexual or heterosexual, they are pedophiles. Some pedophiles target children of the same sex, some target the opposite sex, and then others target either, like that monster in Idaho. None of those scenarios makes pedophilia equal with homosexuality. heterosexuality, or bi-sexuality. I'm pretty sure you are smart enough to understand the difference between a pedophile and a homosexual.[/QUOTE


well golly gee Mr.Wizard...as I have stated many times in this forum...I was a investigator of "Child Porn" cases...and what have you done except try to discredit me and others with actual experience in this field?

Well, then you above anyone else on this forum should KNOW, that there is a difference between a person who is attracted to adults and a person who is attracted to children. Or perhaps you can explain how that concept is fallacious.

 

[MissileMan]

Jesus Christ you are fucking stupid, does someone have to wipe your ass for you too?

It's a myth perpetrated by the religious right to justify the bigotry against homosexuals. With all the bullshit spin you catch liberals trying to put on political issues, I'm really surprised you can't see this. I guess it's because you want it to be true so badly.

 

[no1tovote4]

Most little girls who are molested are molested by supposedly "heterosexual" males (if you go by the definition of homosexuality applying here, they are actually pedophiles, different label for different behavior), does that mean that there are victims in heterosexuality too and there is no safe place for any child?

 

[dmp]

Most little girls who are molested are molested by supposedly "heterosexual" males (if you go by the definition of homosexuality applying here, they are actually pedophiles, different label for different behavior), does that mean that there are victims in heterosexuality too and there is no safe place for any child?

It means children are victims of sick adults. Of those sick adults, Homosexuals have 3 times the risk of acting out on their 'desires'.

 

[KarlMarx]

It's a myth perpetrated by the religious right to justify the bigotry against homosexuals. With all the bullshit spin you catch liberals trying to put on political issues, I'm really surprised you can't see this. I guess it's because you want it to be true so badly.

I like that "Religious Right" theory....

I'd like to see proof of that "myth" claim.... I'd like to see something that shows

a. Who the religious right is exactly
b. What organizations they run
c. What cases these people or organizations have brought before Federal or State Courts in order to victimize homosexuals
d. What legislation they've forced through to victimize homosexuals
e. What, if any, education programs that they have introduced into our schools to indoctrinate our children to hate homosexuals or become tolerant of bigotry against homosexuals
f. What, if any, television programs, news media, movies etc they have produced to present a bigoted view of homosexuals.

 

[no1tovote4]

It means children are victims of sick adults. Of those sick adults, Homosexuals have 3 times the risk of acting out on their 'desires'.

It means that most pedophiles prefer boys. Once again, by the definition used for "homosexual" here, heterosexuals are as dangerous to the children as homosexuals. Sick adults with the whole pedophile issue are the problem.

When people speak about victims of homosexuality, they are speaking of relationships between consenting adults, not of the behavior of "sick adults". There are victims in pedophilia, this is clear, but not in homosexual behavior. In the psychology books there is a clear line of delineation where pedophiles are not included in normal heterosexual or homosexual behavior as they are attracted to children in an unhealthy manner, not to adults. The line of delineation is clear, there are victims in pedophilia (whether homosexual or heterosexual), there are victims in non-consentual sex (whether homosexual or heterosexual), there are not victims in homosexual or heterosexual relationships where adults make decisions for themselves with a clear understanding of the consequences.

The argument that responsible adults that are homosexual are more dangerous because of their homosexuality is not a direct logical path. Those that are pedophiles are pedophiles regardless of whether it is homosexual or heterosexual and often which children they create victims of are more due to proximity and chance than the same sex relation that they may hold. Saying that no homosexual could be a responsible adult who makes their own choices because a "higher percentage" of pedophiles are homosexual is ridiculous. Most of the "homosexual" pedophilia are from men who are considered hetrosexual in all other ways, they marry, have children with their wives and until they are found out you would not even know that they were not normal responsible heteros. They often victimize their own children as well as others because of the pedophilic urges they have outside of their more normal sex life otherwise; more often than not victimizing both sexes of the children rather than specifically working on only one.

One should not use this as a test to see if your children are in more danger with one or the other as there are far more children victimized by these hideously hidden "normal" people than by what may seem to you is the more obvious danger.

Much like those lists of sexual predators you can get from the Cop Shop near you don't keep your children safe at all and give a false sense of security almost all child molesters have not been caught and are still actively hidden they are the most danger, it also will not keep your child safe if they avoid all homosexuals as they are far more likely to be homosexually molested by the next door neighbor who is married and has children, and in all appearance clearly "not" homosexual, than they are by the clearly homosexual couple on the other side of the street.

 

[dmp]

It means that most pedophiles prefer boys. Once again, by the definition used for "homosexual" here, heterosexuals are as dangerous to the children as homosexuals. Sick adults with the whole pedophile issue are the problem.

When people speak about victims of homosexuality, they are speaking of relationships between consenting adults, not of the behavior of "sick adults". There are victims in pedophilia, this is clear, but not in homosexual behavior. In the psychology books there is a clear line of delineation where pedophiles are not included in normal heterosexual or homosexual behavior as they are attracted to children in an unhealthy manner, not to adults. The line of delineation is clear, there are victims in pedophilia (whether homosexual or heterosexual), there are victims in non-consentual sex (whether homosexual or heterosexual), there are not victims in homosexual or heterosexual relationships where adults make decisions for themselves with a clear understanding of the consequences.

The argument that responsible adults that are homosexual are more dangerous because of their homosexuality is not a direct logical path. Those that are pedophiles are pedophiles regardless of whether it is homosexual or heterosexual and often which children they create victims of are more due to proximity and chance than the same sex relation that they may hold. Saying that no homosexual could be a responsible adult who makes their own choices because a "higher percentage" of pedophiles are homosexual is ridiculous. Most of the "homosexual" pedophilia are from men who are considered hetrosexual in all other ways, they marry, have children with their wives and until they are found out you would not even know that they were not normal responsible heteros. They often victimize their own children as well as others because of the pedophilic urges they have outside of their more normal sex life otherwise; more often than not victimizing both sexes of the children rather than specifically working on only one.

One should not use this as a test to see if your children are in more danger with one or the other as there are far more children victimized by these hideously hidden "normal" people than by what may seem to you is the more obvious danger.

Much like those lists of sexual predators you can get from the Cop Shop near you don't keep your children safe at all and give a false sense of security almost all child molesters have not been caught and are still actively hidden they are the most danger, it also will not keep your child safe if they avoid all homosexuals as they are far more likely to be homosexually molested by the next door neighbor who is married and has children, and in all appearance clearly "not" homosexual, than they are by the clearly homosexual couple on the other side of the street.

I hear, er, read you...but I don't agree...Homosexuals, because they have given in to their lusts/degenerate behavior regarding sex, are more likely to give into their lusts involving children.

You don't agree with the very premous of my argument - nobody IS a homosexual...A homosexual IS as a homosexual does. Homosexuals - by their actions, are people who cannot control their lusts/drive to engage in those acts. Thus, the married father who molests a boy has sexual urges he chooses not to control or seek help for. If he was NOT attracted to. and preyed upon that boy, the boy would have been spared.

 

[no1tovote4]

The point I am making is that you cannot tell from outward appearance that your child is safe because somebody appears heterosexual to you. You should not use this as a way to "vet" a babysitter, etc. as it will not make them safer. It is the guy/girl in the closet that they are most in danger from not from clear and easy to "vet" dangers.

Safety for your child will rely on the tools you give them to avoid these pitfalls. Do not teach children to obey every adult that they come in contact with because of "respect". Tell them about the dangers in words they can understand, teach them to talk to you about the things that they are going through and that they will not get in trouble for speaking "bad" about their elders.

 

[Gunny]

It means that most pedophiles prefer boys. Once again, by the definition used for "homosexual" here, heterosexuals are as dangerous to the children as homosexuals. Sick adults with the whole pedophile issue are the problem.

When people speak about victims of homosexuality, they are speaking of relationships between consenting adults, not of the behavior of "sick adults". There are victims in pedophilia, this is clear, but not in homosexual behavior. In the psychology books there is a clear line of delineation where pedophiles are not included in normal heterosexual or homosexual behavior as they are attracted to children in an unhealthy manner, not to adults. The line of delineation is clear, there are victims in pedophilia (whether homosexual or heterosexual), there are victims in non-consentual sex (whether homosexual or heterosexual), there are not victims in homosexual or heterosexual relationships where adults make decisions for themselves with a clear understanding of the consequences.

The argument that responsible adults that are homosexual are more dangerous because of their homosexuality is not a direct logical path. Those that are pedophiles are pedophiles regardless of whether it is homosexual or heterosexual and often which children they create victims of are more due to proximity and chance than the same sex relation that they may hold. Saying that no homosexual could be a responsible adult who makes their own choices because a "higher percentage" of pedophiles are homosexual is ridiculous. Most of the "homosexual" pedophilia are from men who are considered hetrosexual in all other ways, they marry, have children with their wives and until they are found out you would not even know that they were not normal responsible heteros. They often victimize their own children as well as others because of the pedophilic urges they have outside of their more normal sex life otherwise; more often than not victimizing both sexes of the children rather than specifically working on only one.

One should not use this as a test to see if your children are in more danger with one or the other as there are far more children victimized by these hideously hidden "normal" people than by what may seem to you is the more obvious danger.

Much like those lists of sexual predators you can get from the Cop Shop near you don't keep your children safe at all and give a false sense of security almost all child molesters have not been caught and are still actively hidden they are the most danger, it also will not keep your child safe if they avoid all homosexuals as they are far more likely to be homosexually molested by the next door neighbor who is married and has children, and in all appearance clearly "not" homosexual, than they are by the clearly homosexual couple on the other side of the street.

I have to go with -=d=- on this one. Once labelled "pedophile," one is not suddenly absolved of all other abnormal behavior. By law, pedophilia is a crime and homosexuality is not. Morally, BOTH are abnormal behavior.

I consider dismissing homosexuality as a factor in pedophilia as just a dodge by the gay community and its sympathizers to distance them from the more criminal element in their group.

When one begins to give in to unnatural urges to gain sexual gratification, one has set a trend. Yet, for some reason, the idea that they would go further is dismissed out of hand.

To me, there's a logical train of thought to follow that is being ignored in favor of political correctness.

 

[no1tovote4]

I have to go with -=d=- on this one. Once labelled "pedophile," one is not suddenly absolved of all other abnormal behavior. By law, pedophilia is a crime and homosexuality is not. Morally, BOTH are abnormal behavior.

I consider dismissing homosexuality as a factor in pedophilia as just a dodge by the gay community and its sympathizers to distance them from the more criminal element in their group.

When one begins to give in to unnatural urges to gain sexual gratification, one has set a trend. Yet, for some reason, the idea that they would go further is dismissed out of hand.

To me, there's a logical train of thought to follow that is being ignored in favor of political correctness.

Once again, my point is that the safety of your children will not be assured in keeping them from the obvious homosexual. It will be how you teach your children to inform on how they are treated at a babysitters and whether you teach your children to obey adults at all costs as a means of showing "respect" (I sure wish my parents had not taught ME that one).

Most of those homosexual pedophilia encounters are perpetrated by those that appear in all other ways to be heterosexual and therefore "responsible" adults. They will go to your church, have "loving" families, be strong Christians in positions of trust, their teachers, librarians, the next door neighbor, etc and appear to you in all ways as normal, this is the way in which most of them find their victims.

This should not be the means with which to judge that your children will be safe with an adult.

Teach your children to tell you how they are treated at a babysitter, this is the way that you can be reasonably sure of their safety, not that you avoided homosexuals.

 

[archangel]

Once again, my point is that the safety of your children will not be assured in keeping them from the obvious homosexual. It will be how you teach your children to inform on how they are treated at a babysitters and whether you teach your children to obey adults at all costs as a means of showing "respect" (I sure wish my parents had not taught ME that one).

Most of those homosexual pedophilia encounters are perpetrated by those that appear in all other ways to be heterosexual and therefore "responsible" adults. They will go to your church, have "loving" families, be strong Christians in positions of trust, their teachers, librarians, the next door neighbor, etc and appear to you in all ways as normal, this is the way in which most of them find their victims.

This should not be the means with which to judge that your children will be safe with an adult.

Teach your children to tell you how they are treated at a babysitter, this is the way that you can be reasonably sure of their safety, not that you avoided homosexuals.

so to clarify what =d= and gunny were saying is: Having worked as a Federal Investigator of which 10% of the cases assigned to me were "Child Porn" the remainder were narcotics and high tech munitions export and import..
Of the approximately 500 cases of child porn assigned to me 65% were in fact homosexual males=325...25% were hetrosexual males=125...the remainder were divided between homosexual and hetrosexual females 10%=50.

So taking into consideration the homosexual population is only a estimated 5% of our population I would definetly say they are the biggest offenders...
and for the "Babysitter" comment... it is a moot point as most pedophiles are found in the Legal(attorney) profession as well as the teaching profession and other professions that have access to children away from the parents...I am sure that very few babysitters are homosexual males( non of the cases I was assigned were)...and given the stats I gave... females are in fact the lesser of offenders by a long shot!

 

[dmp]

The point I am making is that you cannot tell from outward appearance that your child is safe because somebody appears heterosexual to you.

That is a VERY good point, doug. However, it doesn't take away from the facts as I believe them...homosexuality is a destructive lifestyle choice - and participating in the lifestyle increases the danger to oneself, and elements of society.

 

[Gunny]

Once again, my point is that the safety of your children will not be assured in keeping them from the obvious homosexual. It will be how you teach your children to inform on how they are treated at a babysitters and whether you teach your children to obey adults at all costs as a means of showing "respect" (I sure wish my parents had not taught ME that one).

Most of those homosexual pedophilia encounters are perpetrated by those that appear in all other ways to be heterosexual and therefore "responsible" adults. They will go to your church, have "loving" families, be strong Christians in positions of trust, their teachers, librarians, the next door neighbor, etc and appear to you in all ways as normal, this is the way in which most of them find their victims.

This should not be the means with which to judge that your children will be safe with an adult.

Teach your children to tell you how they are treated at a babysitter, this is the way that you can be reasonably sure of their safety, not that you avoided homosexuals.

I am not saying you do not have a compelling argument. There ARE notable differences between homosexuals and pedophiles.

My point is that those differences are no reason to dismiss out of hand the similarities. IF the similarities have no basis but paranoia/fear, then I think a WHOLE LOT is done to conceal nothing, and rather than dismiss that paranoia/fear, feeds it.

IMO, the bigger paranoia resides with those doing their best to cloud any real conclusive numbers on just what percentage of pedophiles are in fact homosexuals. Although within the realm of possibility, I feel it unlikely that so much effort would made to confuse and deflect if there is nothing to hide.

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

IMO, the bigger paranoia resides with those doing their best to cloud any real conclusive numbers on just what percentage of pedophiles are in fact homosexuals.

If trying to decide whether or not you should be worried about the homosexual next door molesting your child, don't you think the more important question is "just what percentage of homosexuals are in fact pedophiles"?

I would hazard a guess that a huge percentage of all pedophilia cases are committed by a male within the extended family so does that mean that a huge percentage of the men in your child's extended family are pedophiles? Of course not! The truth is that a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of all homosexuals are pedophiles, even if a large percentage of pedophiles are homosexual.

In fact, I could even say that you have failed to show cause and effect. You are assuming it is homosexuality that causes pedophilia. What if it is actually pedophilia that increases your chances of being homosexual?