The Confederacy and States' Rights

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The Constitution does not have to spell out the powers of the states for them to be legitimate powers of the states. The 10th Amendment to the Constitution says this. Since the Constitution does not prohibit the states from seceding, they have the right to secede.

It has much to do with the discussion. It proves that slavery couldn't have been the only issue on the table since the Union had slave states.

Slavery was a reason for secession. Lincoln's promise of higher tariffs was another reason.

Tariffs had been going down under the political pressure the southern States were able to wield in Congress.

Tariffs had damned little to do with causing the warbut the slavers insistence that they had to expand slavery into the territories most certainly did.

Vile motherfucking slavers.

They should all have been hanged

Yet Lincoln ran on a platform of higher tariffs which, as I've said before, is why he had no support in the south but high support in northern states like Pennsylvania.

Yeah, that and that whole being against the expansion of slavery and "a house divided against itself cannot stand" thingy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

KK: I don't deny slavery's role in the south's decision to secede, but to put such an idea squarely on the Confederate's is incorrect. Lincoln himself touted similar ideas to the one expressed by Stephens.

Good to see you backing up, Kevin, that's real smart. Slavery was the root cause for South and North. Lincoln said flatly, "The South ain't agonna go nowhere, sir diddly bob, and the slaves are not gonna be in the Territories." By the great Jehovah, Father Abraham did smite down the arabs of the South, did he not?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

KK: I don't deny slavery's role in the south's decision to secede, but to put such an idea squarely on the Confederate's is incorrect. Lincoln himself touted similar ideas to the one expressed by Stephens.

Good to see you backing up, Kevin, that's real smart. Slavery was the root cause for South and North. Lincoln said flatly, "The South ain't agonna go nowhere, sir diddly bob, and the slaves are not gonna be in the Territories." By the great Jehovah, Father Abraham did smite down the arabs of the South, did he not?

Backing up? Read the entire thread. I've said the entire time that slavery was a reason that the southern states seceded, but not the only reason.

 

[paperview]

....
Lincoln himself touted similar ideas to the one expressed by Stephens.

...

To make a statement like that shows you have read little of Lincolns writings and confine yourself to the cherrypicked Sooo'thren side of history meme.

Educate yourself on the complex creature - and politician, that Lincoln was.

And spend a little time reading more than secess blogs.
You can start with the Lincoln/Douglass debates.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

....
Lincoln himself touted similar ideas to the one expressed by Stephens.

...

To make a statement like that shows you have read little of Lincolns writings and confine yourself to the cherrypicked Sooo'thren side of history meme.

Educate yourself on the complex creature - and politician, that Lincoln was.

And spend a little time reading more than secess blogs.
You can start with the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

That quote was from the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

 

[paperview]

....
Lincoln himself touted similar ideas to the one expressed by Stephens.

...

To make a statement like that shows you have read little of Lincolns writings and confine yourself to the cherrypicked Sooo'thren side of history meme.

Educate yourself on the complex creature - and politician, that Lincoln was.

And spend a little time reading more than secess blogs.
You can start with the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

That quote was from the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

Is that all you read?

There were 7 of them and they were quite lengthy.

Would you care to see some other quotes if we are going to do the cherry picked quote thing?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

To make a statement like that shows you have read little of Lincolns writings and confine yourself to the cherrypicked Sooo'thren side of history meme.

Educate yourself on the complex creature - and politician, that Lincoln was.

And spend a little time reading more than secess blogs.
You can start with the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

That quote was from the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

Is that all you read?

There were 7 of them and they were quite lengthy.

Would you care to see some other quotes if we are going to do the cherry picked quote thing?

Go ahead and post them. The point is that the same point made by Stephens, that African-Americans are inferior, was the same point made by Abraham Lincoln years earlier. No quote you can provide is going to change what Lincoln said.

 

[paperview]

That quote was from the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

Is that all you read?

There were 7 of them and they were quite lengthy.

Would you care to see some other quotes if we are going to do the cherry picked quote thing?

Go ahead and post them. The point is that the same point made by Stephens, that African-Americans are inferior, was the same point made by Abraham Lincoln years earlier. No quote you can provide is going to change what Lincoln said.

How about this:

"I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without the leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man"

Or this:

"This declared indifference, but, as I must think, covert real zeal for the spread of slavery, I cannot but hate. I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself.
I hate it because it deprives our republican example of its just influence in the world-enables the enemies of free institutions, with plausibility, to taunt us as hypocrites-causes the real friends of freedom to doubt our sincerity, and especially because it forces so many really good men amongst ourselves into an open war with the very fundamental principles of civil liberty-criticizing the Declaration of Independence, and insisting that there is no right principle of action but self-interest."

That is nowhere close to what Stephens felt about "the negro" and his belief slavery was the "natural and moral condition" of the black race.

 

[paperview]

That's just a few snippets.

There are plenty more. Maybe if you read a few of Lincolns debates and speeches you might know what the hell you're talking about.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That's just a few snippets.

There are plenty more. Maybe if you read a few of Lincolns debates and speeches you might know what the hell you're talking about.

I've read plenty. In one of your quotes he still says that black people are inferior to white people. Let's also not forget his support for the Corwin Amendment.

Lincoln certainly was against the spread of slavery, but not slavery itself. He wanted those jobs for white people and wanted to deport black people out of America.

 

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"The difference between the Republican and the Democratic parties . . . [in] this contest," he declared,
"is, that the former consider slavery a moral, social and political wrong, while the latter do not consider it either a moral, social or political wrong. . . . The Republican party . . . hold that this government was instituted to secure the blessings of freedom, and that slavery is an unqualified evil to the negro, to the white man, to the soil, and to the State. Regarding it an evil, they will not molest it in the States where it exists . . . ; but they will use every constitutional method to prevent the evil from becoming larger. . . They will, if possible, place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate peaceable extinction, in Gods own good time."

Lincoln considered slavery a moral wrong.

The confederates, as Stephens outlined in his Cornerstone Speech, considered slavery the natural and moral condition of the blacks.

To compare them as same philosophies is asinine.

 

[paperview]

That's just a few snippets.

There are plenty more. Maybe if you read a few of Lincolns debates and speeches you might know what the hell you're talking about.

I've read plenty. In one of your quotes he still says that black people are inferior to white people. Let's also not forget his support for the Corwin Amendment.

Lincoln certainly was against the spread of slavery, but not slavery itself. He wanted those jobs for white people and wanted to deport black people out of America.

"Slavery is an unqualified evil to the negro" is surprise! a statement against slavery itself.

And the American Colonization Society was originally started by abolitionists.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"The difference between the Republican and the Democratic parties . . . [in] this contest," he declared,
"is, that the former consider slavery a moral, social and political wrong, while the latter do not consider it either a moral, social or political wrong. . . . The Republican party . . . hold that this government was instituted to secure the blessings of freedom, and that slavery is an unqualified evil to the negro, to the white man, to the soil, and to the State. Regarding it an evil, they will not molest it in the States where it exists . . . ; but they will use every constitutional method to prevent the evil from becoming larger. . . They will, if possible, place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate peaceable extinction, in Gods own good time."

Lincoln considered slavery a moral wrong.

The confederates, as Stephens outlined in his Cornerstone Speech, considered slavery the natural and moral condition of the blacks.

To compare them as same philosophies is asinine.

Sure he did, which is why he was content to let it continue where it already existed. Also when he gave the Emancipation Proclamation it only applied to areas where there no was Union presence. Which means he never freed a single slave.

Stephens is not indicative of every Confederate. Robert E. Lee was opposed to slavery, and along with Jefferson Davis believed that it would collapse under its own weight.

 

[JBeukema]

What would become of the Blacks has no bearing on the right to secede. Do try to stay on-topic.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That's just a few snippets.

There are plenty more. Maybe if you read a few of Lincolns debates and speeches you might know what the hell you're talking about.

I've read plenty. In one of your quotes he still says that black people are inferior to white people. Let's also not forget his support for the Corwin Amendment.

Lincoln certainly was against the spread of slavery, but not slavery itself. He wanted those jobs for white people and wanted to deport black people out of America.

"Slavery is an unqualified evil to the negro" is surprise! a statement against slavery itself.

And the American Colonization Society was originally started by abolitionists.

Yet the noted abolitionist Lysander Spooner hated Lincoln.

 

[paperview]

"The difference between the Republican and the Democratic parties . . . [in] this contest," he declared,
"is, that the former consider slavery a moral, social and political wrong, while the latter do not consider it either a moral, social or political wrong. . . . The Republican party . . . hold that this government was instituted to secure the blessings of freedom, and that slavery is an unqualified evil to the negro, to the white man, to the soil, and to the State. Regarding it an evil, they will not molest it in the States where it exists . . . ; but they will use every constitutional method to prevent the evil from becoming larger. . . They will, if possible, place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate peaceable extinction, in Gods own good time."

Lincoln considered slavery a moral wrong.

The confederates, as Stephens outlined in his Cornerstone Speech, considered slavery the natural and moral condition of the blacks.

To compare them as same philosophies is asinine.

Sure he did, which is why he was content to let it continue where it already existed. Also when he gave the Emancipation Proclamation it only applied to areas where there no was Union presence. Which means he never freed a single slave.

Stephens is not indicative of every Confederate. Robert E. Lee was opposed to slavery, and along with Jefferson Davis believed that it would collapse under its own weight.

Yes, you are correct, in that he freed the Slaves in only non-Union states, (although most Union states had already, by and large, abolished slavery, and he shrewdly did not want to antagonize the slave states loyal to the Union by setting their slaves free. )

But you are wrong in saying the Proclamation did not free a single slave -

Approx. 20,000 were freed immediately on January 1, 1863.
& hearing of the Proclamation, more slaves quickly escaped to Union lines as the Army units moved South

It ended up by being a clever strategy - that worked!

 

[paperview]

I've read plenty. In one of your quotes he still says that black people are inferior to white people. Let's also not forget his support for the Corwin Amendment.

Lincoln certainly was against the spread of slavery, but not slavery itself. He wanted those jobs for white people and wanted to deport black people out of America.

"Slavery is an unqualified evil to the negro" is surprise! a statement against slavery itself.

And the American Colonization Society was originally started by abolitionists.

Yet the noted abolitionist Lysander Spooner hated Lincoln.

Someone has been reading Lew Rockwell. lol.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"The difference between the Republican and the Democratic parties . . . [in] this contest," he declared,
"is, that the former consider slavery a moral, social and political wrong, while the latter do not consider it either a moral, social or political wrong. . . . The Republican party . . . hold that this government was instituted to secure the blessings of freedom, and that slavery is an unqualified evil to the negro, to the white man, to the soil, and to the State. Regarding it an evil, they will not molest it in the States where it exists . . . ; but they will use every constitutional method to prevent the evil from becoming larger. . . They will, if possible, place it where the public mind shall rest in the belief that it is in the course of ultimate peaceable extinction, in Gods own good time."

Lincoln considered slavery a moral wrong.

The confederates, as Stephens outlined in his Cornerstone Speech, considered slavery the natural and moral condition of the blacks.

To compare them as same philosophies is asinine.

Sure he did, which is why he was content to let it continue where it already existed. Also when he gave the Emancipation Proclamation it only applied to areas where there no was Union presence. Which means he never freed a single slave.

Stephens is not indicative of every Confederate. Robert E. Lee was opposed to slavery, and along with Jefferson Davis believed that it would collapse under its own weight.

Yes, you are correct, in that he freed the Slaves in only non-Union states, (although most Union states had already, by and large, abolished slavery, and he shrewdly did not want to antagonize the slave states loyal to the Union by setting their slaves free. )

But you are wrong in saying the Proclamation did not free a single slave -

Approx. 20,000 were freed immediately on January 1, 1863.
& hearing of the Proclamation, more slaves quickly escaped to Union lines as the Army units moved South

It ended up by being a clever strategy - that worked!

The five border states did not free their slaves after the Emancipation Proclamation, and New Orleans, I believe it was, was under Union control and no slaves were freed.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

"Slavery is an unqualified evil to the negro" is surprise! a statement against slavery itself.

And the American Colonization Society was originally started by abolitionists.

Yet the noted abolitionist Lysander Spooner hated Lincoln.

Someone has been reading Lew Rockwell. lol.

Daily.

But the fact remains that Lysander Spooner despised Lincoln.

 

[paperview]

Daily.

But the fact remains that Lysander Spooner despised Lincoln.

Wow.

Lysander Spooner - an anarchist who advocated violence and slave revolts despised Lincoln.

Stop the presses!

lol.