The choice of stupidity

[catzmeow]

Does the question of choice really matter, though? If someone chooses to engage in a non-criminal behavior, what does it matter?

Because I think the question of choice DOES, in fact, matter. I don't think people choose to be gay (though I do see huge numbers of girls trying on the bi thing for size right now). I think people are born gay. Or, in some cases, through no fault of their own, go through something so traumatic that it switches their wiring.

and given that, it seems to me that everyone is entitled to try and find someone to love during this lifetime. I won't say that we're entitled to find that person, because lots of people don't, sometimes through a combination of bad luck and poor choices. But we are entitled to TRY.

And, if there is a god, and he made some people gay, and some people straight, then attempting to force people to change something that is literally in their subconscious wiring is clearly wrong. It's unethical, unconscionable, and immoral. It's also cruel.

People have a right to love, and to try and find someone to love them in return. And as long as we're talking about consenting adults here, no one else has a right to judge them.

Don't like seeing gay people, y'all? Grow the FUCK UP and turn your head and look at the flowers. Or the trees. Or the sky or the birds or some cars. Act like a fucking adult, and learn to be tolerant of other people's differences just like we tolerate your knuckleheadedness.

 

[catzmeow]

Don't knock stupidity - if it weren't for stupidity I'd be unemployed

Same here ...

Make that a third ditto.

 

[Ravi]

Does the question of choice really matter, though? If someone chooses to engage in a non-criminal behavior, what does it matter?

Because I think the question of choice DOES, in fact, matter. I don't think people choose to be gay (though I do see huge numbers of girls trying on the bi thing for size right now). I think people are born gay. Or, in some cases, through no fault of their own, go through something so traumatic that it switches their wiring.

and given that, it seems to me that everyone is entitled to try and find someone to love during this lifetime. I won't say that we're entitled to find that person, because lots of people don't, sometimes through a combination of bad luck and poor choices. But we are entitled to TRY.

And, if there is a god, and he made some people gay, and some people straight, then attempting to force people to change something that is literally in their subconscious wiring is clearly wrong. It's unethical, unconscionable, and immoral. It's also cruel.

People have a right to love, and to try and find someone to love them in return. And as long as we're talking about consenting adults here, no one else has a right to judge them.

Don't like seeing gay people, y'all? Grow the FUCK UP and turn your head and look at the flowers. Or the trees. Or the sky or the birds or some cars. Act like a fucking adult, and learn to be tolerant of other people's differences just like we tolerate your knuckleheadedness.

I don't disagree with anything you've said here, though I still don't understand why the question of if it is a choice or not is important. But that is probably a subject for a different thread.

 

[jillian]

why do you think "liberals" should tolerate intolerance? I find that strange. I don't think it's anyone's job to be nice or not nice. There are people we connect with and people we don't. If someone thinks your point is bogus, they are going to tell you. It doesn't mean they "don't like [you]". If you look around, you're playing to a tough audience. So I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone to not call you on being wrong... or inconsistent... or hypocritial... or whatever.

I'm not sure you really want to take posts on a messageboard to heart in any event.

Calling me on what you think I've said is wrong is one thing, calling me names is another.

who called you names?

btw, I can show you about 1,000 threads full of name-calling. like I said, I wouldn't put much stock in it.

 

[jillian]

Don't knock stupidity - if it weren't for stupidity I'd be unemployed

Same here ...

Make that a third ditto.

Fourth. lol.

 

[catzmeow]

Same here ...

Make that a third ditto.

Fourth. lol.

So, what you're saying is that we're all leeches on the teat of societal incompetence?

Hurrah for stupid people!!!

 

[Valerie]

Does the question of choice really matter, though? If someone chooses to engage in a non-criminal behavior, what does it matter?

Because I think the question of choice DOES, in fact, matter. I don't think people choose to be gay (though I do see huge numbers of girls trying on the bi thing for size right now). I think people are born gay. Or, in some cases, through no fault of their own, go through something so traumatic that it switches their wiring.

and given that, it seems to me that everyone is entitled to try and find someone to love during this lifetime. I won't say that we're entitled to find that person, because lots of people don't, sometimes through a combination of bad luck and poor choices. But we are entitled to TRY.

And, if there is a god, and he made some people gay, and some people straight, then attempting to force people to change something that is literally in their subconscious wiring is clearly wrong. It's unethical, unconscionable, and immoral. It's also cruel.

People have a right to love, and to try and find someone to love them in return. And as long as we're talking about consenting adults here, no one else has a right to judge them.

Don't like seeing gay people, y'all? Grow the FUCK UP and turn your head and look at the flowers. Or the trees. Or the sky or the birds or some cars. Act like a fucking adult, and learn to be tolerant of other people's differences just like we tolerate your knuckleheadedness.

I don't disagree with anything you've said here, though I still don't understand why the question of if it is a choice or not is important. But that is probably a subject for a different thread.

It's important to those who want to have legal grounds to discriminate against them. Same subject as glockmail's thread about the twins where one is gay and one isn't.

 

[elvis]

I've been thinking about starting this thread for a while but was still trying to gather my thoughts on it, but today I decided to throw caution to the wind and just go for it.

So...

I've been accused of saying that stupidity is a choice. This is incorrect. I believe that it is possible that people are born that way. The choice is whether or not a person acts on their urge.

There are many urges we get everyday. Sometimes we feel hungry so we decide if we are going to eat or not. If we decide to eat, then we must decide what to eat... salad, candy bar, etc.

Some people are very driven to succeed, some are lazy. These are urges or inclinations that we either obey or fight.

Some people want to be rich so bad they will risk their life and others lives robbing banks. It's an urge. Some act upon it, some don't.

If we want to say any urge we get is natural and normal and should be honored then by all means stupidity is a great and wonderful thing. So is binge eating and armed robbery. So are many, many other things, some good some bad. This is how animals live. Hungry? Eat whatever isn't faster than you. Need to poop? This looks like a nice spot. Got the urge to fuck? Find a partner!

But is this really how people should live?

I don't think so. I think that people should be more principled than animals. I don't think that God gave us brains so that we could only use them to satisfy our desires.

This is really incomplete, but there should be enough here to get some dialog going.

What prompted you to start this thread? Is it in response to another thread?

 

[Valerie]

I've been thinking about starting this thread for a while but was still trying to gather my thoughts on it, but today I decided to throw caution to the wind and just go for it.

So...

I've been accused of saying that stupidity is a choice. This is incorrect. I believe that it is possible that people are born that way. The choice is whether or not a person acts on their urge.

There are many urges we get everyday. Sometimes we feel hungry so we decide if we are going to eat or not. If we decide to eat, then we must decide what to eat... salad, candy bar, etc.

Some people are very driven to succeed, some are lazy. These are urges or inclinations that we either obey or fight.

Some people want to be rich so bad they will risk their life and others lives robbing banks. It's an urge. Some act upon it, some don't.

If we want to say any urge we get is natural and normal and should be honored then by all means stupidity is a great and wonderful thing. So is binge eating and armed robbery. So are many, many other things, some good some bad. This is how animals live. Hungry? Eat whatever isn't faster than you. Need to poop? This looks like a nice spot. Got the urge to fuck? Find a partner!

But is this really how people should live?

I don't think so. I think that people should be more principled than animals. I don't think that God gave us brains so that we could only use them to satisfy our desires.

This is really incomplete, but there should be enough here to get some dialog going.

What prompted you to start this thread? Is it in response to another thread?

I've been thinking about starting this thread for a while but was still trying to gather my thoughts on it, but today I decided to throw caution to the wind and just go for it.

So...

I've been accused of saying that homosexuality is a choice. This is incorrect. I believe that it is possible that people are born that way. The choice is whether or not a person acts on their urge.

There are many urges we get everyday. Sometimes we feel hungry so we decide if we are going to eat or not. If we decide to eat, then we must decide what to eat... salad, candy bar, etc.

Some people are very driven to succeed, some are lazy. These are urges or inclinations that we either obey or fight.

Some people want to be rich so bad they will risk their life and others lives robbing banks. It's an urge. Some act upon it, some don't.

If we want to say any urge we get is natural and normal and should be honored then by all means homosexuality is a great and wonderful thing. So is binge eating and armed robbery. So are many, many other things, some good some bad. This is how animals live. Hungry? Eat whatever isn't faster than you. Need to poop? This looks like a nice spot. Got the urge to fuck? Find a partner!

But is this really how people should live?

I don't think so. I think that people should be more principled than animals. I don't think that God gave us brains so that we could only use them to satisfy our desires.

This is really incomplete, but there should be enough here to get some dialog going.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/71485-the-choice-of-homosexuality.html

 

[catzmeow]

What prompted you to start this thread? Is it in response to another thread?

 

[Amanda]

why do you think "liberals" should tolerate intolerance? I find that strange. I don't think it's anyone's job to be nice or not nice. There are people we connect with and people we don't. If someone thinks your point is bogus, they are going to tell you. It doesn't mean they "don't like [you]". If you look around, you're playing to a tough audience. So I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone to not call you on being wrong... or inconsistent... or hypocritial... or whatever.

I'm not sure you really want to take posts on a messageboard to heart in any event.

Calling me on what you think I've said is wrong is one thing, calling me names is another.

who called you names?

btw, I can show you about 1,000 threads full of name-calling. like I said, I wouldn't put much stock in it.

If name calling is allowed then it doesn't matter who did it. Who did it wasn't my point. My point was that it's lame and not the behavior of someone who is trying to have a meaningful discussion.

 

[Valerie]

If name calling is allowed then it doesn't matter who did it. Who did it wasn't my point. My point was that it's lame and not the behavior of someone who is trying to have a meaningful discussion.

Amanda do you comprehend the meaning of calling homosexuality a "choice" and why it is a very controversial opinion to have? The reaction is not about you at all.

You're crying about having your feelings hurt? Please, did you have any consideration for the "feelings" of Skydancer or Abelian Sea or any other homosexual who might be reading your thread? The subject has been beaten like a dead horse around here and you know it!

 

[YWN666]

I personally think people should repress their urges toward stupidity. I mean, if they're stupid, that's fine, but perhaps the rest of us shouldn't be subjected to it.

I think stupid people shouldn't be allowed to marry.

 

[xotoxi]

If name calling is allowed then it doesn't matter who did it. Who did it wasn't my point. My point was that it's lame and not the behavior of someone who is trying to have a meaningful discussion.

Amanda do you comprehend the meaning of calling homosexuality a "choice" and why it is a very controversial opinion to have? The reaction is not about you at all.

You're crying about having your feelings hurt? Please, did you have any consideration for the "feelings" of Skydancer or Abelian Sea or any other homosexual who might be reading your thread? The subject has been beaten like a dead horse around here and you know it!

Since I am Xotoxi, let me lay this out for all-y'all so that you can understand the truth.

Homosexuality is not a choice. Heterosexuality is not a choice.

Engaging in homosexual activities is a choice, just as engaging in heterosexual activities is a choice.

But the choice is not between engaging in either homosexual activity or heterosexual activity...the choice is between either having sex or abstaining.

 

[Amanda]

If name calling is allowed then it doesn't matter who did it. Who did it wasn't my point. My point was that it's lame and not the behavior of someone who is trying to have a meaningful discussion.

Amanda do you comprehend the meaning of calling homosexuality a "choice" and why it is a very controversial opinion to have? The reaction is not about you at all.

You're crying about having your feelings hurt? Please, did you have any consideration for the "feelings" of Skydancer or Abelian Sea or any other homosexual who might be reading your thread? The subject has been beaten like a dead horse around here and you know it!

If you were driving along and you came upon an 8 sides red sign that said SLOW on it what would you do? Most people would STOP because they've been conditioned by the color, shape, font and number of letters on the sign. That's what you and many others have done in responding to my thread. If you've got the time please go back and look again. I think you'll see that I said:

- I don't think being or not being gay is a choice
- I don't want to make any laws having to do with being gay
- I am in favor of civil unions for ALL (I don't know if it's in that thread, but I have said it on here at least a dozen times)

I also think you'll find I wasn't complaining about having my feelings hurt. Just the opposite really. I was pointing out how lame the tactic of name calling and mocking is if you're trying to pretend you're here for meaningful discussion.

If anyone doesn't want to read any particular thread they don't have to. There are a lot of threads I don't read here because I'm not interested in them or the person who started them. There are plenty of posters here that I ignore, not literally, I don't put them on ignore, but I don't respond to them.

 

[Avatar4321]

I honestly do wish people would choose not to be stupid. But unfortunately, I cant control others.

 

[catzmeow]

If you were driving along and you came upon an 8 sides red sign that said SLOW on it what would you do? Most people would STOP because they've been conditioned by the color, shape, font and number of letters on the sign. That's what you and many others have done in responding to my thread. If you've got the time please go back and look again.

Could you provide a full color diagram of this scenario a la terral? I'm having a hard time visualizing it.

 

[Valerie]

I truly am naive. When I started this experiment I thought that liberals would be nice to me. I thought they were supposed to be the kinder, gentler people. I'd never really known any so I didn't have any way to know better. I really am shocked at the obvious glee that some seem to derive from trying to hurt my feelings.

It must be frustrating tho... not that it isn't working, it's not, but that personal attacks are the best you've got. I'm dumb remember? Shouldn't it be easy to outwit me? But no, nothing of any substance, just mocking and name calling.

I'd be embarrassed to be sitting back acting morally and intellectually superior and having to resort to these kinds of tactics. Heck, I don't think I'm morally and intellectually superior to anyone and I'd still be embarrassed.... that's why I don't do it. It would make me feel like a small person to try to hurt someone just because I disagreed with them or didn't like them for whatever reasons you've dreamed up to not like me. It's funny, you don't even know me and you put such energy into me. Ironically, I like all of you. I really do. I think about the things you've posted and pray for your families when you're in some kind of distress. I try to send love and light to all of you every day.

I just wish I knew a way to make you happy.

You seem to WANT to make it about you, but sorry...it's just not at all about you.

If name calling is allowed then it doesn't matter who did it. Who did it wasn't my point. My point was that it's lame and not the behavior of someone who is trying to have a meaningful discussion.

Amanda do you comprehend the meaning of calling homosexuality a "choice" and why it is a very controversial opinion to have? The reaction is not about you at all.

You're crying about having your feelings hurt? Please, did you have any consideration for the "feelings" of Skydancer or Abelian Sea or any other homosexual who might be reading your thread? The subject has been beaten like a dead horse around here and you know it!

If you were driving along and you came upon an 8 sides red sign that said SLOW on it what would you do? Most people would STOP because they've been conditioned by the color, shape, font and number of letters on the sign. That's what you and many others have done in responding to my thread. If you've got the time please go back and look again. I think you'll see that I said:

- I don't think being or not being gay is a choice
- I don't want to make any laws having to do with being gay
- I am in favor of civil unions for ALL (I don't know if it's in that thread, but I have said it on here at least a dozen times)

I also think you'll find I wasn't complaining about having my feelings hurt. Just the opposite really. I was pointing out how lame the tactic of name calling and mocking is if you're trying to pretend you're here for meaningful discussion.

If anyone doesn't want to read any particular thread they don't have to. There are a lot of threads I don't read here because I'm not interested in them or the person who started them. There are plenty of posters here that I ignore, not literally, I don't put them on ignore, but I don't respond to them.

No Amanda, I suggest you go back and look at your thread and you will find that I never even posted in it.

In the context of everything else that has ALREADY been posted by all the same people, including you, the sign I saw when I saw your thread title was ZZZZzzzzzzzz.

Posting in your thread, to me would be the equivalent of this:

THIS is the thread I responded to. Are you familiar with the comedic art form known as parody? Sometimes it's actually a kinder, gentler way to get your point across. You really should take Jillian's advice and not take any of it personally.

I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt, but you live and you learn, kid. On a political message board, the "meaningfulness" of a thread titled "The Choice of Homosexuality" is controversial because it is the basis for discrimination. It's really very simple and again, not all about you!

 

[Amanda]

I truly am naive. When I started this experiment I thought that liberals would be nice to me. I thought they were supposed to be the kinder, gentler people. I'd never really known any so I didn't have any way to know better. I really am shocked at the obvious glee that some seem to derive from trying to hurt my feelings.

It must be frustrating tho... not that it isn't working, it's not, but that personal attacks are the best you've got. I'm dumb remember? Shouldn't it be easy to outwit me? But no, nothing of any substance, just mocking and name calling.

I'd be embarrassed to be sitting back acting morally and intellectually superior and having to resort to these kinds of tactics. Heck, I don't think I'm morally and intellectually superior to anyone and I'd still be embarrassed.... that's why I don't do it. It would make me feel like a small person to try to hurt someone just because I disagreed with them or didn't like them for whatever reasons you've dreamed up to not like me. It's funny, you don't even know me and you put such energy into me. Ironically, I like all of you. I really do. I think about the things you've posted and pray for your families when you're in some kind of distress. I try to send love and light to all of you every day.

I just wish I knew a way to make you happy.

You seem to WANT to make it about you, but sorry...it's just not at all about you.

Amanda do you comprehend the meaning of calling homosexuality a "choice" and why it is a very controversial opinion to have? The reaction is not about you at all.

You're crying about having your feelings hurt? Please, did you have any consideration for the "feelings" of Skydancer or Abelian Sea or any other homosexual who might be reading your thread? The subject has been beaten like a dead horse around here and you know it!

If you were driving along and you came upon an 8 sides red sign that said SLOW on it what would you do? Most people would STOP because they've been conditioned by the color, shape, font and number of letters on the sign. That's what you and many others have done in responding to my thread. If you've got the time please go back and look again. I think you'll see that I said:

- I don't think being or not being gay is a choice
- I don't want to make any laws having to do with being gay
- I am in favor of civil unions for ALL (I don't know if it's in that thread, but I have said it on here at least a dozen times)

I also think you'll find I wasn't complaining about having my feelings hurt. Just the opposite really. I was pointing out how lame the tactic of name calling and mocking is if you're trying to pretend you're here for meaningful discussion.

If anyone doesn't want to read any particular thread they don't have to. There are a lot of threads I don't read here because I'm not interested in them or the person who started them. There are plenty of posters here that I ignore, not literally, I don't put them on ignore, but I don't respond to them.

No Amanda, I suggest you go back and look at your thread and you will find that I never even posted in it.

In the context of everything else that has ALREADY been posted by all the same people, including you, the sign I saw when I saw your thread title was ZZZZzzzzzzzz.

Posting in your thread, to me would be the equivalent of this:

THIS is the thread I responded to. Are you familiar with the comedic art form known as parody? Sometimes it's actually a kinder, gentler way to get your point across. You really should take Jillian's advice and not take any of it personally.

I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt, but you live and you learn, kid. On a political message board, the "meaningfulness" of a thread titled "The Choice of Homosexuality" is controversial because it is the basis for discrimination. It's really very simple and again, not all about you!

kthxbye

 

[midcan5]

Stupid is a word and as such has no meaning outside the context of use. It is one of those eye of the beholder kinds of thing. I'm sure the stupidest person would not agree they were stupid assuming they understand the use of stupid. And nobody chooses to be stupid, is Forrest Gump stupid? In America there is a strange paradox that while no want to be called stupid; no one wants to be smart either as that is considered elitist or too educated.

How is it too we differ between ignorance and stupidity? Are they the same thing? I was thinking of other threads and I would say that anyone who can seriously listen to Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck would be stupid in my world. Their simplistic jingoism is painful to listen to, but are the listeners stupid or ignorant, does it matter.