Stand and be counted or sit down and shut up: Reflections on Colin as a patriot

usmbguest5318

Gold Member
Jan 1, 2017
10,923
1,635
290
D.C.
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
-- Earl Nightingale [If you do nothing else with this post, listen to Earl]​


To my mind, a patriot, a genuine one, is a person who looks objectively at his/her country, sees the the reprobate and righteous, and in turn praises the good and denounces and moves to alter the bad.

Colin is clearly not trying to forsake his citizenship; thus he must necessarily see more good than bad about the U.S. He's doing what people of integrity do: bringing to bear the resources at their disposal to try to effect corrections of that which they see as errant.

"Everyday citizens" (people who hold neither formal nor overwhelming economic power) like Kaepernick do not deserve scorn and ridicule for doing exactly that. One need not agree with them or him; however, they and he deserve our respect for...
(a) unlike so many people -- especially some members here [1] -- who think of political discourse and conversation as entertainment,
(b) unlike so many who rail about all they think needs correcting yet won't get off their asses and join in discussions among individuals and organizations whereby one can actually be part of effecting positive change [2],​
Colin Kaepernick is not anonymously sitting before a computer screen typing vulgarities and personal slights at every person and idea that offends him or that doesn't align with the partisan rhetoric he heard on his favorite propaganda show. The man is expressing himself peacefully and quietly.

The U.S. has a long tradition of patriots who in their day "stood and were counted," people who openly spoke up about what they felt was wrong with their country and acted to see the ill(s) ended. Just a very few examples and individuals are noted below.
  • 1668 Quaker Petition against slavery -- Garret Hendricks, Derick de Graeff, Francis Daniel Pastorius and Abraham up Den Graeff
  • Boston Tea Party -- Samuel Adams and the Sons of Liberty
  • American Revolution - [you had better know enough of the names that I don't need to list any]
  • Civil Rights Movement
    • 1919 Chicago Riots -- 1500+ individuals who lost their lives and/or homes
    • 1939 Lincoln Memorial Concert -- Marian Anderson, Charlie Russel and Eleanor Roosevelt,
    • Montgomery Bus Boycott -- Rosa Parks and thousands of others who daily gave up hours of their lives due to unrecoverable time lost by having to find alternate means of transportation.
    • 1963 March on Washington -- Martin L. King, Jr.
    • 1965 Selma March -- MLK, Jr., Rep. John Lewis, J.L. Chestnut, Stokely Carmichael, Fay Powell, Hosea Williams, and many others.
    • Sit Ins -- I think the Woolworth's Lunch Counter one may be the most famous, but I have no idea of the names of the people who participated in them. I don't know that the things even were formally organized rather than being an organic development.
  • Women's Suffrage and Equal Rights Movement
  • Vietnam Antiwar Movement
  • Anti Globalization/Anti-WTO-IMF Movement
  • Labor Movement
    • 1939 GM Tool and Die Workers Strike -- Walter Reuther
  • Occupy Wall Street Movement
When I consider Colin Kaepernick's actions at a football game, I'm reminded of the "sit in" movement. That man's protest is nothing other than kneeling quietly and waiting for the game to start. Silence is a powerful thing.


Note:
  1. If one feels the need, one can scan for posts in the following threads to find an assortment of direct and indirect examples:
  2. Some examples include but are not limited to organizations noted in the following posts:
    -- Policy debate and discussion
    -- You're here...You should consider going there and sharing your ideas where it matters...

Aside:
For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression, one'd think that not one soul here would countenance any sort of recriminations against Colin Kaepernick.​
 
Last edited:
Kapernick is today's Rosa Parks.

What is he protesting?

Here's your answer --> Click here.


Cave.jpg
 
Last edited:
The NFL is a "sports entertainment" organization that enjoys significant tax payer subsidies and is allowed to operate as a monopoly.
Colin earned millions and can afford to pay for a media campaign or other activity to express his views.

I want the NFL to focus on sports, not politics. I would invite Colin to buy ads or use his money to organize other public discourse.

If the NFL doesn't want to stick to entertainment they should be stripped of their taxpayer subsidies and other legal advantages.

.
 
The NFL is a "sports entertainment" organization that enjoys significant tax payer subsidies and is allowed to operate as a monopoly.
Colin earned millions and can afford to pay for a media campaign or other activity to express his views.

I want the NFL to focus on sports, not politics. I would invite Colin to buy ads or use his money to organize other public discourse.

If the NFL doesn't want to stick to entertainment they should be stripped of their taxpayer subsidies and other legal advantages..
Nothing you wrote in that post has to do with patriotism and the extent to which Colin Kaepernick's actions are or are not patriotic. In contrast, the NFL Commissioner, who I suspect is not participating in this thread, did have something to say that is on topic.

"Well my personal thoughts are... I support our players when they want to see change in society, and we don't live in a perfect society. We live in an imperfect society. On the other hand, we believe very strongly in patriotism in the NFL. I personally believe very strongly in that. I think it's important to have respect for our country, for our flag, for the people who make our country better; for law enforcement, and for our military who are out fighting for our freedoms and our ideals.

"These are all important things for us, and that moment is a very important moment. So, I don't necessarily agree with what he is doing. We encourage our players to be respectful in that time and I like to think of it as a moment where we can unite as a country. And that's what we need more, and that's what I think football does - it unites our country. So I would like to see us focusing on our similarities and trying to bring people together.

"Players have a platform, and it's his right to do that. We encourage them to be respectful and it's important for them to do that.

"I think it's important if they see things they want to change in society, and clearly we have things that can get better in society, and we should get better. But we have to choose respectful ways of doing that so that we can achieve the outcomes we ultimately want and do it with the values and ideals that make our country great."​

I want the NFL to focus on sports, not politics.

And that's exactly what the NFL is doing. You'll notice that the 2017 NFL football season is well underway and going along just fine regardless of whether Colin Kaepernick stands, kneels, sits down or anything else during the playing/singing of the national anthem at NFL games.

Roger Goodell managed to make the statement quoted above and see completed the 2016 season and the 2017 season commenced. Funny that he managed to do that. Let me tell you why he could and did. He could and did because, unlike "lesser mortals," he can "walk, talk, and pick his nose" and run the NFL all the same time. See, that's what multitalented people routinely do.

The SF49ers also managed to issue a statement about it and complete their 2016 season and start their 2017 one. If they want to fire Colin for his protest, they are free to do so.

From where I sit, if there be action to take against Colin, it should be for his job performance, not his before-work protest.
 
Last edited:
The NFL is a "sports entertainment" organization that enjoys significant tax payer subsidies and is allowed to operate as a monopoly.
Colin earned millions and can afford to pay for a media campaign or other activity to express his views.

I want the NFL to focus on sports, not politics. I would invite Colin to buy ads or use his money to organize other public discourse.

If the NFL doesn't want to stick to entertainment they should be stripped of their taxpayer subsidies and other legal advantages..
Nothing you wrote in that post has to do with patriotism and the extent to which Colin Kaepernick's actions are or are not patriotic. In contrast, the NFL Commissioner, who I suspect is not participating in this thread, did have something to say that is on topic.

"Well my personal thoughts are... I support our players when they want to see change in society, and we don't live in a perfect society. We live in an imperfect society. On the other hand, we believe very strongly in patriotism in the NFL. I personally believe very strongly in that. I think it's important to have respect for our country, for our flag, for the people who make our country better; for law enforcement, and for our military who are out fighting for our freedoms and our ideals.

"These are all important things for us, and that moment is a very important moment. So, I don't necessarily agree with what he is doing. We encourage our players to be respectful in that time and I like to think of it as a moment where we can unite as a country. And that's what we need more, and that's what I think football does - it unites our country. So I would like to see us focusing on our similarities and trying to bring people together.

"Players have a platform, and it's his right to do that. We encourage them to be respectful and it's important for them to do that.

"I think it's important if they see things they want to change in society, and clearly we have things that can get better in society, and we should get better. But we have to choose respectful ways of doing that so that we can achieve the outcomes we ultimately want and do it with the values and ideals that make our country great."​

I want the NFL to focus on sports, not politics.

And that's exactly what the NFL is doing. You'll notice that the 2017 NFL football season is well underway and going along just fine regardless of whether Colin Kaepernick stands, kneels, sits down or anything else during the playing/singing of the national anthem at NFL games.

Roger Goodell managed to make the statement quoted above and see completed the 2016 season and the 2017 season commenced. Funny that he managed to do that. Let me tell you why he could and did. He could and did because, unlike "lesser mortals," he can "walk, talk, and pick his nose" and run the NFL all the same time. See, that's what multitalented people routinely do.

The SF49ers also managed to issue a statement about it and complete their 2016 season and start their 2017 one. If they want to fire Colin for his protest, they are free to do so.

From where I sit, if there be action to take against Colin, it should be for his job performance, not his before-work protest.

My problem is with the NFL.

If the NFL gives up their tax payer subsidies and other government supported legal advantages I have no problem with them broadcasting whatever message they want. If the NFL takes tax payer subsidies and other government advantages I want them to focus on sports entertainment.

Colin is certainly free to express himself but he should do so at his expense - he can afford it - let him put his money where his mouth is.

.

.
 
The NFL is a "sports entertainment" organization that enjoys significant tax payer subsidies and is allowed to operate as a monopoly.
Colin earned millions and can afford to pay for a media campaign or other activity to express his views.

I want the NFL to focus on sports, not politics. I would invite Colin to buy ads or use his money to organize other public discourse.

If the NFL doesn't want to stick to entertainment they should be stripped of their taxpayer subsidies and other legal advantages..
Nothing you wrote in that post has to do with patriotism and the extent to which Colin Kaepernick's actions are or are not patriotic. In contrast, the NFL Commissioner, who I suspect is not participating in this thread, did have something to say that is on topic.

"Well my personal thoughts are... I support our players when they want to see change in society, and we don't live in a perfect society. We live in an imperfect society. On the other hand, we believe very strongly in patriotism in the NFL. I personally believe very strongly in that. I think it's important to have respect for our country, for our flag, for the people who make our country better; for law enforcement, and for our military who are out fighting for our freedoms and our ideals.

"These are all important things for us, and that moment is a very important moment. So, I don't necessarily agree with what he is doing. We encourage our players to be respectful in that time and I like to think of it as a moment where we can unite as a country. And that's what we need more, and that's what I think football does - it unites our country. So I would like to see us focusing on our similarities and trying to bring people together.

"Players have a platform, and it's his right to do that. We encourage them to be respectful and it's important for them to do that.

"I think it's important if they see things they want to change in society, and clearly we have things that can get better in society, and we should get better. But we have to choose respectful ways of doing that so that we can achieve the outcomes we ultimately want and do it with the values and ideals that make our country great."​

I want the NFL to focus on sports, not politics.

And that's exactly what the NFL is doing. You'll notice that the 2017 NFL football season is well underway and going along just fine regardless of whether Colin Kaepernick stands, kneels, sits down or anything else during the playing/singing of the national anthem at NFL games.

Roger Goodell managed to make the statement quoted above and see completed the 2016 season and the 2017 season commenced. Funny that he managed to do that. Let me tell you why he could and did. He could and did because, unlike "lesser mortals," he can "walk, talk, and pick his nose" and run the NFL all the same time. See, that's what multitalented people routinely do.

The SF49ers also managed to issue a statement about it and complete their 2016 season and start their 2017 one. If they want to fire Colin for his protest, they are free to do so.

From where I sit, if there be action to take against Colin, it should be for his job performance, not his before-work protest.

My problem is with the NFL.

If the NFL gives up their tax payer subsidies and other government supported legal advantages I have no problem with them broadcasting whatever message they want. If the NFL takes tax payer subsidies and other government advantages I want them to focus on sports entertainment.

Colin is certainly free to express himself but he should do so at his expense - he can afford it - let him put his money where his mouth is.
.

What has that to do with the nature or extent to which Colin's actions are patriotic?

I thought that the theme is his actions vis a vis patriotism...hence the thread title "Stand and be counted or sit down and shut up: Reflections on Colin as a patriot."
 
Aside:
For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression, one'd think that not one soul here would countenance any sort of recriminations against Colin Kaepernick.​

...and why would you think that?

1A shields one from legal consequences for political 'speech', not 'recrimination'.

Colin Kaepernick is not anonymously sitting before a computer screen typing vulgarities and personal slights at every person and idea that offends him or that doesn't align with the partisan rhetoric he heard on his favorite propaganda show.

...and you know this how?

I, for one, find your posts intriguing and revealing as to the thought process of the person behind the words. Revealing inasmuch as one who would post a quote such as this, 'When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.' then proceed to pass judgment on 'others'...blithely unaware of the introspection needed for an honest exchange of viewpoints.

With that in mind...no offense intended, of course...you take yourself seriously enough, no need for me to. :)

btw - another group of illustrious patriots who have been maligned in the public square for their views to add to your list - Tea Party movement - Wikipedia. Surely just an oversight on your part.
 
I disagree that showing disrespect for our flag and the Republic is a form of patriotism.

There are many ways to protest and showing disrespect for our NATION is not one of them and still be a patriot.

These pampered spoiled morons need to wake up and realize that they are killing their little golden goose.

And frankly, I dont care if Colin is a patriot or not anyway as he is still disrespecting the flag.
 
`

The premise of patriotism is extremely subjective. Personally, I don't care what hollywood, music and (so-called) professional athletes say, think or do outside their craft. Some people obviously do and seem to get very emotionally excited over such things. I suppose they need to keep their minds occupied by nothing. Still, these incidents have been propelled to the front of national debate by a mindless president wishing to cause more hate and discontent.

Colin Kaepernick is stupid. Like most such athletes, that's a given. Academic grades was not his ticket out of the ghetto, football was. However, he is supposed to be a good black quarterback, a rarity in the NFL I understand. One day, the forward thinking Kaepernick thought it would be spiffy and cool to kneel in protest to police brutality, during the national anthem. While I question his judgment and thinking skills using a sporting event to voice his displeasure, the act is understandable.

Historically, taking the knee was symbolic to pledging fidelity and allegiance to a person or concept. I'd never do that as my allegiance and loyalty, even to this country, is conditional. Anyways, by certain standards, what Colin did by kneeling during the anthem, was magnanimous. However, in our politically dysfunctional and hyperbolic system, that was seen by some ideologies as an insult, thus the backlash against him. Actions bring consequences. Poor Colin.

The loony left sees this as him being some sort of a hero/patriot while the loony right sees him as an agitator and traitor. Enter our buffoon of a president spreading gas on a fire and an instant, mind numbingly stupid controversy is created in hopes of occupying the simplistic and weak minds of its citizens so he can do more perfidy unnoticed. It's working too.

Kaepernick a "patriot"? A victim of circumstance at best but a patriot? Only to extremists and people with too much time on their hands.
 
Aside:
For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression, one'd think that not one soul here would countenance any sort of recriminations against Colin Kaepernick.​

...and why would you think that?

1A shields one from legal consequences for political 'speech', not 'recrimination'.

Colin Kaepernick is not anonymously sitting before a computer screen typing vulgarities and personal slights at every person and idea that offends him or that doesn't align with the partisan rhetoric he heard on his favorite propaganda show.

...and you know this how?

I, for one, find your posts intriguing and revealing as to the thought process of the person behind the words. Revealing inasmuch as one who would post a quote such as this, 'When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.' then proceed to pass judgment on 'others'...blithely unaware of the introspection needed for an honest exchange of viewpoints.

With that in mind...no offense intended, of course...you take yourself seriously enough, no need for me to. :)

btw - another group of illustrious patriots who have been maligned in the public square for their views to add to your list - Tea Party movement - Wikipedia. Surely just an oversight on your part.

For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression, one'd think that not one soul here would countenance any sort of recriminations against Colin Kaepernick.
...and why would you think that?

??? "For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression" is how that sentence begins. Have you not see all the "carrying on on USMB about "free speech this" and "free speech that?"

Picture2.jpg
 
Aside:
For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression, one'd think that not one soul here would countenance any sort of recriminations against Colin Kaepernick.​

...and why would you think that?

1A shields one from legal consequences for political 'speech', not 'recrimination'.

??? "For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression" is how that sentence begins. Have you not see all the "carrying on on USMB about "free speech this" and "free speech that?

Indeed, I read the entire sentence - and responding to a question with a question is not a answer. In reference to the entirety of your statement - why would one 'think that not one soul here would countenance any sort of recriminations against CK'?
 
It is amazing that these same stupid Moon Bats who claim a NFL player assholes should have free speech in the workplace are the same ones shutting down free speech in the universities all over the US.
 

New Topics

Forum List

Back
Top