Stand and be counted or sit down and shut up: Reflections on Colin as a patriot

[bripat9643]

Kapernick is today's Rosa Parks.

They hated and laughed at her too.

Kaepernick bears no resemblance to Rosa Parks whatsoever. He makes millions of dollars. He's hardly a victim of any kind.

 

[Billo_Really]

The problem is disrespectful assholes like Kaepernick and those who believe the Constitution protects what he's doing.

The Constitution does protect what he is doing. Dissent is one of the cornerstones of this country. It is an American value.

 

[bripat9643]

They can protest all they like, and we can stay home or change the channel. If their employers tell them to knock it off or face the consequences, that is perfectly Constitutional.

There is no Constitutional right to fire someone exercising a Constitutional right.

Yes there is. An employer can fire someone for bringing a gun to the office if they have a rule against it, and an employer can fire someone for making comments that it deems to be not in the best interests of the company. The government cannot penalize you, but your employer can.

 

[Billo_Really]

Kaepernick bears no resemblance to Rosa Parks whatsoever. He makes millions of dollars. He's hardly a victim of any kind.

They're both protesting racism. You seem to be defending it?

 

[bripat9643]

The problem is disrespectful assholes like Kaepernick and those who believe the Constitution protects what he's doing.

The Constitution does protect what he is doing. Dissent is one of the cornerstones of this country. It is an American value.

It protects him from the government, not his employer. There's even a clause in his contract that says his employer can fire him for behavior that reflects badly on the team.

 

[jknowgood]

They can protest all they like, and we can stay home or change the channel. If their employers tell them to knock it off or face the consequences, that is perfectly Constitutional.

There is no Constitutional right to fire someone exercising a Constitutional right.

If the owner of the company feels disrespected, then yes he can fire you. You don't have the right to work there.

 

[bripat9643]

Kaepernick bears no resemblance to Rosa Parks whatsoever. He makes millions of dollars. He's hardly a victim of any kind.

They're both protesting racism. You seem to be defending it?

Rosa Parks was actually a victim of racism. Kaepernick isn't.

 

[LeftofLeft]

They can protest all they like, and we can stay home or change the channel. If their employers tell them to knock it off or face the consequences, that is perfectly Constitutional.

There is no Constitutional right to fire someone exercising a Constitutional right.

If I bring a firearm into the office to and am protected by The Constitution and compliance with arm and carry regulations, and management tells me not to bring a firearm into the office or lose my job, your logic is that I can carry the firearm around the office because it is my Constitutional Right. The focus here is Constitutional Rights.

 

[bripat9643]

You're post was too stupid to bother with a comment.

Protesting racism is stupid?

Putting Kaepernick in the same league as Rosa Parks is stupid.

 

[Billo_Really]

I did I said more whites are killed by cops than blacks. You tried to derail the Op by bringing racism into it. The fact is black on black kiliings and black women aborting their babies are the problem with blacks remaining a minority. Both of those problems liberalism created, by welfare and normalizing abortion. Congratulations you own the problem.

In absolute numbers, more whites are killed by blacks. But that is because there are 160 million more whites in this country than blacks. The truth is, blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by cops than whites are.

 

[Billo_Really]

Yes there is. An employer can fire someone for bringing a gun to the office if they have a rule against it, and an employer can fire someone for making comments that it deems to be not in the best interests of the company. The government cannot penalize you, but your employer can.

That is true.

 

[Billo_Really]

If the owner of the company feels disrespected, then yes he can fire you. You don't have the right to work there.

I agree.

 

[whitehall]

The guy is worth a lot of money for playing a game that he loves in the greatest Country in the world. Instead of getting off his ass and running for office or working to get the representation he thinks he deserves he takes the lazy cowards way and publicly disrespects the Flag while he is protected by a little army of security and Police Officers some of which are better men than he is and served in the Military. . If he wanted to make a point he could donate his salary to the disaster relief but that ain't gonna happen. The rest of America also has a 1st Amendment right to ridicule him because he is a whiny ignorant cowardly lazy ass hole.

 

[Billo_Really]

Rosa Parks was actually a victim of racism. Kaepernick isn't.

Yes he is. The fact that he is not on a team when there is clearly worse quarterbacks in the league, is proof of that.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Are you seriously trying to pass that pile of shit off as a patriot?

 

[Billo_Really]

If I bring a firearm into the office to and am protected by The Constitution and compliance with arm and carry regulations, and management tells me not to bring a firearm into the office or lose my job, your logic is that I can carry the firearm around the office because it is my Constitutional Right. The focus here is Constitutional Rights.

You're equating carrying a deadly weapon with peacefully protesting institutionalized racism?

Interesting?

 

[Billo_Really]

Putting Kaepernick in the same league as Rosa Parks is stupid.

They are both protesting racism. What's the difference?

 

[bripat9643]

Rosa Parks was actually a victim of racism. Kaepernick isn't.

Yes he is. The fact that he is not on a team when there is clearly worse quarterbacks in the league, is proof of that.

He's not on a team because of his behavior. He made himself into an embarrassment and a problem for any team that hires him. They don't want the problem.

 

[BlackSand]

??? "For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression" is how that sentence begins. Have you not see all the "carrying on on USMB about "free speech this" and "free speech that?"

• Threads about free speech and that have the term "free speech" in the thread title -- Search Results for Query: free speech | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

"Free" speech is a statement to its value ...

We can honor and uphold free speech ... But that doesn't make anyone a patriot.
Actions and substantial cost/risk give speech value.
Colin would only be a patriot if he was willing to burden the cost associated with his risk.

Otherwise ... A speech is just empty words.
Where they may be passionate or appealing to some ... The value is decided by the recipient and not the speaker.

.

We can honor and uphold free speech ... But that doesn't make anyone a patriot.

Do you think that I was averring or implying that honoring and upholding free speech makes one a patriot? Perhaps you didn't read the OP?

Let me explain....

The thread title speaks of "standing and being counted" and it identifies a theme of patriotism. Later in the OP, I wrote:

The U.S. has a long tradition of patriots who in their day "stood and were counted," people who openly spoke up about what they felt was wrong with their country and acted to see the ill(s) ended.

That's the sentence that provides the "big clue" to realizing that I'm not suggesting or stating that speaking freely is in and of itself patriotic...What makes one's expression patriotic is that one is using one's voice to advocate for improving something one sees as wrong with one's country, and one's advocating in a public way whereby one jeopardizes something of current or future value to oneself.

It's important to realize that there is another key distinguishing factor as goes Colin and other folks like him, or me or you. That factor is that it's not our job to rail against what we feel needs correcting or to advocate for building upon what's extant and good. That is the job of our elected and appointed leaders, but merely doing their job doesn't in and of itself make them patriots, though some of them may indeed be patriots; it just takes more for them to earn that moniker. Nobody deserves to be lauded for simply doing their job, and that's so of every job. I alluded to that concept with this statement:

"Everyday citizens" (people who hold neither formal nor overwhelming economic power) like Kaepernick do not deserve scorn and ridicule for doing exactly that.

At the very end of the OP, I remarked about free speech, as seen from the context of how USMB members remark upon it and the 1st Amendment. I did so with the following statement

Aside:
For as much invective and vitriol as is seen on USMB about freedom of expression, one'd think that not one soul here would countenance any sort of recriminations against Colin Kaepernick.

Notice that I put that word "aside" at the start of the comment. I put that word there because the remark that follows really isn't at all the theme of the OP. It's merely an ancillary thought.​

Hopefully that makes it clear to you that I agree with you that one's merely upholding or exercising free speech doesn't a patriot make. That Colin spoke freely by kneeling during the anthem isn't what I argued makes him a patriot. His kneeling during the anthem, his exercise of free speech and risk to which he exposed himself by freely expressing himself, is merely a foil that illustrates his patriotism and his genuine desire to see his country become a "more perfect union."

All I said is actions speak louder than words ... And he didn't stand up ... He bent knee ...

.

 

[Billo_Really]

I want everyone attending a game today and watching a game today to take a knee during the national anthem.

No exceptions!