So athiests..........

[FurthurBB]

I'm an Agnostic,

But I celebrate Christmas full-on: Family on xmas eve and day, big parties, lots of giving, Santa stories for all the kids, and it's the one or two times a year I MIGHT pop-up in a Church - only due to peer (in-law) pressure.

I get this Friday and Monday off of work.

I bought my first house in June - and it's fully decorated with Christmas decor - lights, tree, candles that smell nice, stockings for me, Alicia, Kylie and our Dog Sadie.

Got the wifey a $400 Coach purse this year, along with a couple of dancing games for our Kinect, a really nice pink & black polo bubble-vest, perfume, Rhiana's new CD and I paid for much of our gifts to other family members.

What else------------ohhhhh, my Gram's Cranberry bread? Spread some butter on that, have it with milk for Breakfast Xmas morning? Wheeeeew, let's goo000!

Hopefully nobody in our families went too all-out on my Daughter this year, she'll only be 16 days old on xmas.

Be careful with her if you are having a lot of company. My daughter was 5 days old on christmas and we had a huge christmas party. 2 days later she was in the hospital with a 101.6 temp. Now, at least you will be far enough in that your wife will have IgA in her breast milk, they say it takes about 2 weeks to get to a good concentration. Babies just have such a delicate immune system and cannot take any medicine when they are that young, I should not have let so many people hold her that day.

 

[G.T.]

I'm an Agnostic,

But I celebrate Christmas full-on: Family on xmas eve and day, big parties, lots of giving, Santa stories for all the kids, and it's the one or two times a year I MIGHT pop-up in a Church - only due to peer (in-law) pressure.

I get this Friday and Monday off of work.

I bought my first house in June - and it's fully decorated with Christmas decor - lights, tree, candles that smell nice, stockings for me, Alicia, Kylie and our Dog Sadie.

Got the wifey a $400 Coach purse this year, along with a couple of dancing games for our Kinect, a really nice pink & black polo bubble-vest, perfume, Rhiana's new CD and I paid for much of our gifts to other family members.

What else------------ohhhhh, my Gram's Cranberry bread? Spread some butter on that, have it with milk for Breakfast Xmas morning? Wheeeeew, let's goo000!

Hopefully nobody in our families went too all-out on my Daughter this year, she'll only be 16 days old on xmas.

Be careful with her if you are having a lot of company. My daughter was 5 days old on christmas and we had a huge christmas party. 2 days later she was in the hospital with a 101.6 temp. Now, at least you will be far enough in that your wife will have IgA in her breast milk, they say it takes about 2 weeks to get to a good concentration. Babies just have such a delicate immune system and cannot take any medicine when they are that young, I should not have let so many people hold her that day.

Thanks for caring. Good advice.

 

[koshergrl]

Pot, meet Kettle

Feel free to explain. If, that is, you can.

Are you that obtuse?
Never mind. That's a rhetorical question.

"
The phrase "The pot calling the kettle black" is an idiom used to accuse a person of being guilty of the very thing of which they accuse another. This may or may not be hypocritical or a contradiction.

"As generally understood, the person accusing is understood to share some quality with the target of their accusation."
Pot calling the kettle black - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[catzmeow]

idiom used to accuse a person of being guilty of the very thing of which they accuse another. This may or may not be hypocritical or a contradiction.

"As generally understood, the person accusing is understood to share some quality with the target of their accusation."
Pot calling the kettle black - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's a particularly stupid accusation since I haven't done what horse's ass has suggested I did.

 

[logical4u]

So you are cool with celebrating pagan celebrations (another religion), but Christianity is just too much for you to take?

I'm cool with doing things that are largely based upon the observable cycles of the year and which make logical sense to me. The darkest time of the year is at the winter solstice (around December 22). Having a lot of lights in the house makes it feel festive and cheery. Evergreen trees, holly and mistletoe remain green in the winter, which serves as a valuable reminder that even in the darkest and coldest times, life is resilient.

The symbolism speaks to me, even though I don't really believe in the mythology.

As far as the tradition of giving gifts, that dates back to the Saturnalia. Now THAT would have been a holiday worth celebrating. ^.^

You didn't answer the question.

 

[koshergrl]

idiom used to accuse a person of being guilty of the very thing of which they accuse another. This may or may not be hypocritical or a contradiction.

"As generally understood, the person accusing is understood to share some quality with the target of their accusation."
Pot calling the kettle black - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's a particularly stupid accusation since I haven't done what horse's ass has suggested I did.

 

[logical4u]

Since gift giving for the winter solstice has been around way before Christianity I would ask you Jesus freaks how come you had to co opt the ancient winter celebration with your beliefs?

You can't be 100% certain when JC was born anyway so why don't you all be a little more original and pick another day?

Winter Solstice is Dec. 22
Christmas is on the 25th
What is stopping you from your winter solstice celebration? Nothing at all. Your free to have your winter solstice celebration.

You just can't deal with the fact that the J freak Xmas was intentionally placed in winter so as to make the religion easier to push out older longer held beliefs.

Do you really think that 2000 years ago that people really cared if the winter tradition of gift giving was observed on the 21st or the 25th?

I agree with you. The celebration of Yeshua's birth was intentionally placed after the winter solstice when the "light" was on its way back to longer days. It was and is a celebration of the birth of Yeshua's birth. There was not a competing holiday in North America since the first Christians settled here, determined to make a life where liberty and religious freedom (for Christians, make no mistake there was not a lot of tolerance for witches, or druids) could be enjoyed in their particular communities. So, yes, it was deliberately placed in the winter. There was not a "popular" winter solstice celebration for hundreds of years when Grant made Christmas a "holiday" (holy day). That pretty much means that Christmas for the lifetimes going back five, six generations was all about Yeshua's birth, not pagan celebrations. The whole pagan time frame is a neat piece of trivia, but it is no longer celebrated by communities or relevant. On the other hand, Christmas is celebrated by Christians around the world. And yes there are places where religions are mingled (can't we all just get along) to keep the peace. And it this country, you are free to celebrate "winter solstice". You can post the locations of the celebrations here if you would like, who knows, maybe the atheists that deny the Lord would join "that" faith.

 

[logical4u]

Naw.

Reichskonkordat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On the Jews and Their Lies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







That man almost became a Priest.

Heck..didn't the Crusaders roast up some Greek Orthodox babies when they hit Constantinople?

Fun bunch.

How many "monsters" use the 'church' to gain access to victims (in every religion)? Hitler did not 'practice' Christianity. He used Christianity to manipulate the ignorant (Biblically).

Sure he did.

Or did you forget all the lovely Christian history..like the Crusades and Spanish Inquisition.

Let's talk about the Spanish Inquistition
"The Inquisition, as a tribunal dealing with religious heresy, had jurisdiction only over baptized Christians. During a large part of its history, however, freedom of religion did not exist in Spain or its territories, so in practice the Inquisition had jurisdiction over all royal subjects. Between 3000 to 5000 people died during the Inquisition's 350 years, but debate continues about the extent of and nature of atrocities committed and about the number of victims. Originally politically motivated, it aimed to use religion to foster national unity but later became the object of Protestant anti-Catholic propaganda which "painted Spaniards as barbarians who ravished women and sodomized young boys"[1]. It was the secular authorities that punished those found guilty, so the Inquisition may best be seen an example of how religion can be used by the State to promote its agenda, rather than "a metaphor of the Church's 'dictatorial, controlling, damning' pronouncements".[2].Due to creation of the "Black Legend", the Spanish Inquisition may have gained a reputation for inhumanity disproportionate to what actually took place. On the other hand, it remains a regrettable part of the human story, a fact which should not be clouded by the claims and counter-claims of those for whom it is the subject of cultural war." from Spanish Inquisition - New World Encyclopedia

That is 10 - 20 people a year. More people than that die in our prisons a year. Seriously?

The Crusades: you people never want to talk about how they started, just some shadowy legend of knights charging the (oh so innocent) muslims that slaughtered and conquered the eastern Mediteranian area, murdering and plundering hundreds of thousands of people (but let's not mention that part of history). Again, seriously????

 

[logical4u]

Did you ever hear of Stonehenge? They knew exactly what day is was.
The tradition of Winter Solstice was not about gift giving;

The winter solstice was immensely important because communities were not certain of living through the winter, and had to be prepared during the previous nine months. Starvation was common in winter between January and April, also known as the famine months. In temperate climates, the midwinter festival was the last feast celebration, before deep winter began. Most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter, so it was almost the only time of year when a supply of fresh meat was available. The majority of wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking at this time.

They celebrate and worship the Sun.
If you want to celebrate the creation instead of the creator, you are free to do so in this country.
Christians believe in the Creator who made made the sun.

I don't observe pagan holidays nor do i observe religious holidays. Xmas to me is a secular holiday that gives me an excuse to splurge on gifts for my lovely wife and nothing more.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that Christian holidays were superimposed over existing holidays from older religions.

A glaring example of this is evident in South America. When the indigenous people were crushed into servitude and forced to worship the Christian god at the point of a sword, Incan holidays of which there were dozens were replaced by "Saints' Days" where a catholic saint was substituted for the older deities for it was well known that forced assimilation is easier when new traditions are superimposed over the old.

You can believe in whatever fairy tale you choose but at least don't ignore the historical patterns of the evolution of religions by denying that Christianity followed the pattern of superimposing itself over older religions.

I never said anything at all about denying that Christianity took the place of worshiping the creation, to change it to, worshiping the Creator.
It was the Catholics who forced people into their form of religion and killed in the name of their Christian ideology.
That is why so many Christians left Europe to come to America, because Catholics use to force their form of religious ideology on everyone.
Don't lump all Christians into what the Catholics did.

footnote: the Protestants were fairly good at slaughtering Catholics, themselves.

 

[Coyote]

Catholics ARE Christians. Aside from that - if you're going to smear them for all the evils done in the name of religion, open your eyes and look at what the Protestants did in Europe to the Catholics and in America to the native peoples.

Where did I say that Catholics are not Chrisians?
I'm not smearing them I am starting facts .
Catholics use to force people into Christianity.
Protestants fought for freedom to worship the way they wanted to, from Catholics.

Catholics and Protestants related very differently to American Indians, as they initially encountered them. The Catholic way was coercion, of course, but, the Protestant way reflected the inevitable social manifestations of independence and freedom.

I'm not sure there was that much difference - the Spanish were certainly far more overtly brutal and bloody, but I don't see the Protestants as being much better in their treatment of the native peoples. Children were removed from their families and forceably converted to Christianity via boarding schools and government policies for example and their treatment at the hands of the Protestants was pretty brutal once they gained enough power in the new lands.

Columbus certainly viewed the South American Indians he encountered as at least potential subjects of the Spanish Crown and Catholic Church. The Protestants, however, viewed the Indians as independent people with whom agreements, pacts, and treaties were to be established.

mmm - and those treaties readily broken and people forceably removed from their lands. Is that really much better?

Both Catholic and Protestant had in mind the conversion of the Indians to Christianity, certainly. But, that was not part of the motive or reason the Protestants came to America. Furthermore, the Catholics saw the “natives” as a cheap (or, free) labor source. The protestants had no such servile disposition. The Protestants saw potentially independent Christians in the Indians, just as the “pilgrim” Protestants saw in themselves.

I don't think that was main reason that the Catholics came either - it was conquest, gold, land for their monarchs and faith. The Spanish saw the natives as cheap labor, that is true. The protestants brought their own cheap labor in the form of slaves.

I don't see enough difference to make a distinction.

 

[hortysir]

[I never said anything at all about denying that Christianity took the place of worshiping the creation, to change it to, worshiping the Creator.
It was the Catholics who forced people into their form of religion and killed in the name of their Christian ideology.
That is why so many Christians left Europe to come to America, because Catholics use to force their form of religious ideology on everyone.
Don't lump all Christians into what the Catholics did.

Your religion is no different from any other, all of which claim to explain the creation, etc. I hope it makes you happy, but this dismissal of other people's beliefs isn't very productive. Or, for that matter, rational.

Look at it this way. You don't believe in a long list of gods/goddesses. I disbelieve in that same list, but include YHWH on it. We are not so different.

Pot, meet Kettle

Pot, meet Kettle

Feel free to explain. If, that is, you can.

To say that Peach's response is nonproductive or irrational is being dismissive.



I'm sorry you couldn't see it.

 

[Dr Grump]

He used Christianity to manipulate the ignorant (Biblically).

Sounds like what all fanatical religous folk do...

 

[The Professor]

The atheists from this board aren't interested in sharing their own beliefs, their primary function (besides getting drunk and taking their kids to the gambling and prostitution capitol of the world, it seems) is to spend time attacking Christians for THEIR beliefs.

Fortunately, Christians do not get drunk, gamble, have sex outside of marriage or disparage the beliefs of others...oh, wait.

Your original question was : "So atheists...how do you celebrate Christmas?" Your question should have been, "So, non-Christians...how do you celebrate Christmas? There are many people - including me - who do not accept Christianity, but whose belief in God is as strong as yours. If defining all those who do not believe the same way you do as "atheists," then you are an atheist as far as I am concerned.

In answer to your question, my wife and I (there are no kids in the house) celebrate the same way that most Christians traditionally do. We listen to Christmas music and watch Christmas shows on TV, such as A Dog Named Christmas, A Christmas Carol, How the Grinch Stole Christmas and anything to do with Charlie Brown and Snoopy. My wife, who is a Christian will read the Bible and watch a few television ministers, especially Charles Stanley and Joyce Meyer. I watch, too, because I like to know how others think and feel. My wife and I attend the Church of Christ. I always go with her because it makes her feel good, it does me no harm and I love acappella singing.

I have studied the Bible for over 60 years and the Qur'an for a little over ten years. I do not accept either Book to be the complete, inspired and inerrant word of God. I am convinced that God will not judge us by what we believe, but rather how we live our lives in accordance with that belief. Belief is not volitional; that is, we cannot will ourselves to believe one way or another. The idea that one can believe upon command is illogical and contrary to human nature. Rather, belief is an involuntary act; belief is our perspective created by our total life's experiences filtered through the prism of our individual preferences and prejudices. Our beliefs are the product of the fickle forces of heredity and environment, things that are more controlled by chance than choice. We are not so much masters of our beliefs as we are its slaves; therefore, I am persuaded that God would not judge us by what we believe, but rather how we act on those beliefs.

Poet Shelly said it best:

"This is the pivot upon which all religions turn; they all assume that it is in our power to believe or not to believe, whereas the mind can only believe that which it thinks true. A human being can only be supposed accountable for those actions which are influenced by his will. But belief is utterly distinct from and unconnected with volition; it is the apprehension of the agreement or disagreement of the ideas that compose any proposition. Belief is a passion or involuntary operation of the mind, and, like other passions, its intensity is precisely proportionate to the degree of excitement. Volition is essential to merit or demerit. But the Christian religion attaches the highest possible degree of merit and demerit to that which is worthy of neither, and which is totally unconnected with the peculiar faculty of the mind whose presence is essential to their being" (Notes to Queen Mab).

Oh, by the way: Merry Christmas!

 

[hortysir]

The atheists from this board aren't interested in sharing their own beliefs, their primary function (besides getting drunk and taking their kids to the gambling and prostitution capitol of the world, it seems) is to spend time attacking Christians for THEIR beliefs.

Fortunately, Christians do not get drunk, gamble, have sex outside of marriage or disparage the beliefs of others...oh, wait.

Your original question was : "So atheists...how do you celebrate Christmas?" Your question should have been, "So, non-Christians...how do you celebrate Christmas? There are many people - including me - who do not accept Christianity, but whose belief in God is as strong as yours. If defining all those who do not believe the same way you do as "atheists," then you are an atheist as far as I am concerned.

In answer to your question, my wife and I (there are no kids in the house) celebrate the same way that most Christians traditionally do. We listen to Christmas music and watch Christmas shows on TV, such as A Dog Named Christmas, A Christmas Carol, How the Grinch Stole Christmas and anything to do with Charlie Brown and Snoopy. My wife, who is a Christian will read the Bible and watch a few television ministers, especially Charles Stanley and Joyce Meyer. I watch, too, because I like to know how others think and feel. My wife and I attend the Church of Christ. I always go with her because it makes her feel good, it does me no harm and I love acappella singing.

I have studied the Bible for over 60 years and the Qur'an for a little over ten years. I do not accept either Book to be the complete, inspired and inerrant word of God. I am convinced that God will not judge us by what we believe, but rather how we live our lives in accordance with that belief. Belief is not volitional; that is, we cannot will ourselves to believe one way or another. The idea that one can believe upon command is illogical and contrary to human nature. Rather, belief is an involuntary act; belief is our perspective created by our total life's experiences filtered through the prism of our individual preferences and prejudices. Our beliefs are the product of the fickle forces of heredity and environment, things that are more controlled by chance than choice. We are not so much masters of our beliefs as we are its slaves; therefore, I am persuaded that God would not judge us by what we believe, but rather how we act on those beliefs.

Poet Shelly said it best:

"This is the pivot upon which all religions turn; they all assume that it is in our power to believe or not to believe, whereas the mind can only believe that which it thinks true. A human being can only be supposed accountable for those actions which are influenced by his will. But belief is utterly distinct from and unconnected with volition; it is the apprehension of the agreement or disagreement of the ideas that compose any proposition. Belief is a passion or involuntary operation of the mind, and, like other passions, its intensity is precisely proportionate to the degree of excitement. Volition is essential to merit or demerit. But the Christian religion attaches the highest possible degree of merit and demerit to that which is worthy of neither, and which is totally unconnected with the peculiar faculty of the mind whose presence is essential to their being" (Notes to Queen Mab).

Oh, by the way: Merry Christmas!

Actually it was Sunshine's question.

 

[jillian]

Your religion is no different from any other, all of which claim to explain the creation, etc. I hope it makes you happy, but this dismissal of other people's beliefs isn't very productive. Or, for that matter, rational.

Look at it this way. You don't believe in a long list of gods/goddesses. I disbelieve in that same list, but include YHWH on it. We are not so different.

Pot, meet Kettle

Pot, meet Kettle

Feel free to explain. If, that is, you can.

To say that Peach's response is nonproductive or irrational is being dismissive.



I'm sorry you couldn't see it.

perhaps peach's response was nonsense?

 

[hortysir]

Seemed fairly accurate, actually.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Winter Solstice is Dec. 22
Christmas is on the 25th
What is stopping you from your winter solstice celebration? Nothing at all. Your free to have your winter solstice celebration.

You just can't deal with the fact that the J freak Xmas was intentionally placed in winter so as to make the religion easier to push out older longer held beliefs.

Do you really think that 2000 years ago that people really cared if the winter tradition of gift giving was observed on the 21st or the 25th?

I agree with you. The celebration of Yeshua's birth was intentionally placed after the winter solstice when the "light" was on its way back to longer days. It was and is a celebration of the birth of Yeshua's birth. There was not a competing holiday in North America since the first Christians settled here, determined to make a life where liberty and religious freedom (for Christians, make no mistake there was not a lot of tolerance for witches, or druids) could be enjoyed in their particular communities. So, yes, it was deliberately placed in the winter. There was not a "popular" winter solstice celebration for hundreds of years when Grant made Christmas a "holiday" (holy day). That pretty much means that Christmas for the lifetimes going back five, six generations was all about Yeshua's birth, not pagan celebrations. The whole pagan time frame is a neat piece of trivia, but it is no longer celebrated by communities or relevant. On the other hand, Christmas is celebrated by Christians around the world. And yes there are places where religions are mingled (can't we all just get along) to keep the peace. And it this country, you are free to celebrate "winter solstice". You can post the locations of the celebrations here if you would like, who knows, maybe the atheists that deny the Lord would join "that" faith.

It is no longer celebrated because christians superimposed their religion over the older religions of the day. It's that simple.

It will be interesting to see what religion superimposes itself on christianity in the future.

 

[catzmeow]

To say that Peach's response is nonproductive or irrational is being dismissive.

It was non-productive and irrational, not to mention inaccurate. Hope that helps you understand (though I doubt it).

 

[hortysir]

To say that Peach's response is nonproductive or irrational is being dismissive.

It was non-productive and irrational, not to mention inaccurate. Hope that helps you understand (though I doubt it).

Does that change the definition of dismissive?

Or is it only others can be dismissive and not you?

 

[catzmeow]

[I have studied the Bible for over 60 years and the Qur'an for a little over ten years. I do not accept either Book to be the complete, inspired and inerrant word of God. I am convinced that God will not judge us by what we believe, but rather how we live our lives in accordance with that belief. Belief is not volitional; that is, we cannot will ourselves to believe one way or another. The idea that one can believe upon command is illogical and contrary to human nature. Rather, belief is an involuntary act; belief is our perspective created by our total life's experiences filtered through the prism of our individual preferences and prejudices. Our beliefs are the product of the fickle forces of heredity and environment, things that are more controlled by chance than choice. We are not so much masters of our beliefs as we are its slaves; therefore, I am persuaded that God would not judge us by what we believe, but rather how we act on those beliefs.

This perspective is actually substantiated by the Bible, once you get past the humanly-created rigamarole:

Micah 6:8: He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly[a] with your God.

When Christians don't do these things, and then seek to cram their dogma down people's throats, they shouldn't really be surprised that they are vehemently rejected.

Clean your own house before you start worrying about mine.