Should I Believe 'em About Bachmann??

[blastoff]

The left is in full blown Alinsky mode re Bachmann and will be with others if their popularity seems to be growing, and it will get far worse as the field narrows and then once a candidate is chosen.

It's pretty much standard operating procedure for them but they'll have to really ratchet it up this go-round due to the abysmal Obama record he has to attempt to defend. The more they can deflect attention away from it and on to the opposition the better they think they'll have it.

 

[konradv]

Sure, run when you're called out!!! It just goes to show that the rightists are total hypocrites when they talk about the left's "moral relativism". How do the BDs become heroes and Mumia becomes a pariah, when they both did the same thing?

konny, you couldn't call out a mouse.

Another moral relativist speaks! It's amazing how they either ignore the BDs' murder of men who were simply serving a search warrant or treat them as is they were some sort of heroes. If someone did the same for Mumia, they'd be screaming to high heaven.

 

[uscitizen]

whoooooosh...*

...and so goes the the right wing myth of moral superiority.

What makes you think it's a myth?

Because the right says it?

 

[Jarhead]

Sure, run when you're called out!!! It just goes to show that the rightists are total hypocrites when they talk about the left's "moral relativism". How do the BDs become heroes and Mumia becomes a pariah, when they both did the same thing?

konny, you couldn't call out a mouse.

Another moral relativist speaks! It's amazing how they either ignore the BDs' murder of men who were simply serving a search warrant or treat them as is they were some sort of heroes. If someone did the same for Mumia, they'd be screaming to high heaven.

As much as I didnt want to get into this BS discussion with you...I will in the hopes that you will move on...

The OP was referring to the HANDLING of the situation...not the cause of the situation.

The entire discussion by the OP was comparing how the media treats opposing AG's...

So move on...no one supports the murder of police officers.

 

[Dot Com]

Ashcroft politicized the Justice department to an extent not seen before:
Monica Goodling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Monica Marie Goodling (born August 6, 1973) is a former United States government lawyer and political appointee in the George W. Bush administration who became known in 2007 in the midst of a political controversy surrounding the firings of several United States Attorneys. She was the principal deputy director of public affairs for the United States Department of Justice, serving under Attorneys General John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales. A Department of Justice investigation concluded that she had violated the law, but she was not prosecuted because she had been granted immunity. The Virginia State Bar publicly reprimanded Goodling in May 2011 for "improperly utilized political affiliation and other political considerations when making hiring decisions for career positions."[1]

The there's this:
Ashcroft "didn't want to hear of al Qaeda" in high threat summer of 2001 | Crooks and Liars

BEN-VENISTE: Good afternoon, gentlemen.

Mr. Pickard, on January 21st of this year you met with our staff. Is that correct?

PICKARD: That's correct.

BEN-VENISTE: And according to our staff report, you told them that in June 2001, you met with Attorney General Ashcroft and he told you that you would be the acting FBI director.

PICKARD: That's correct.

BEN-VENISTE: You had some seven or eight meetings with the attorney general?

PICKARD: Somewhere in that number. I have the exact number, but I don't know the total.

BEN-VENISTE: And according to the statement that our staff took from you, you said that you would start each meeting discussing either counterterrorism or counterintelligence. At the same time the threat level was going up and was very high. Mr. Watson had come to you and said that the CIA was very concerned that there would be an attack. You said that you told the attorney general this fact repeatedly in these meetings. Is that correct?

PICKARD: I told him at least on two occasions.

BEN-VENISTE: And you told the staff according to this statement that Mr. Ashcroft told you that he did not want to hear about this anymore. Is that correct?

PICKARD: That is correct.

(h/t Mike)

The one good thing he did was tell Gonzales that he didn't think wire-tapping was legal
FBI Director's Notes Contradict Gonzales's Version Of Ashcroft Visit

Then-Attorney General John D. Ashcroft was "feeble," "barely articulate" and "stressed" moments after a hospital room confrontation in March 2004 with Alberto R. Gonzales, who wanted Ashcroft to approve a warrantless wiretapping program over Justice Department objections, according to notes from FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III that were released yesterday.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Four separate threads sharing the Liberal view of Michelle Bachmann!

Must be true....I guess....

until I read Coulter's expose of the Liberal view of John Ashcroft, you know, as the “the worst attorney-general in history.”

Check it out, then see how much confidence one can put in the Libeal viewpoint:

No discussion of the Liberal mind would be complete without a review of the reaction of same to two Attorneys-General, Janet Reno, and John Ashcroft. Nothing could be more enlightening as an example of cognitive dissonance. Should Liberals' judgment about events, or individuals be afforded any cache?

First, what did Liberals think of John Ashcroft?
1. The NYTime’s Paul Krugman called him “the worst attorney-general in history.” Times Higher Education - Gloves off for 'thinking man's Michael Moore'

2. More charitable was Anthony Romero, of the ACLU, who merely pronounced that he “will turn out to be one of the worst attorney generals in American history.” NPR, Liane Hansen Weekend Edition, November 14, 2004.

3. Rutgers University law professor Frank Askin: he was “the worst attorney general in my memory,” and “There’s nothing good I can say about him. I’m glad he’s gone.’ AP, “NJ Muslims, Libertarians Glad To See Ashcroft Go,” November 10, 2004.

4. The Nation called him a ‘fascist.’ Nation Topics - John Ashcroft | The Nation

5. “People for the American Way compared him to the "virulent segregationists" of the Jim Crow South. Handgun Control Inc. likened his views to those of "convicted mass-murderer Timothy McVeigh." The Los Angeles Times depicted him in a cartoon as a Klansman, complete with white robe and hood.” Boston.com / News / Boston Globe / Opinion / Op-ed / We owe Ashcroft thanks

Now, how about an objective view of the Attorney-General that Ashcroft succeeded.

1. Attorney General Reno’s military-style attack on a religious sect in Waco, Texas led to the greatest number of US civilians ever killed by the government in the history of the United States. Clearly, Reno felt that the presence of a weird cult rose to the level of a threat to the domestic tranquility of the nation. Kent State, 4 killed; Haymarket prosecutions, 4 executed; Three Mile Island, zero.

a. American Civilians killed: Ashcroft, zero; Reno, 80.

2. While Dade County state attorney, Reno persecuted the most decorated police officer in the history of South Miami PD with a totally fabricated “repressed memory child molestation” conviction. He served 12 years before the Supreme Court threw it out.

a. Innocent people imprisoned not just for crime they didn’t commit, but for crime that never happened: Ashcroft, zero; Reno…at least one.

3. “On Aug. 19, 1991, rabbinical student Yankel Rosenbaum was stabbed to death in Crown Heights by a black racist mob shouting "Kill the Jew!" as retaliation for another Hasidic man killing a black child in a car accident hours earlier.

In a far clearer case of jury nullification than the first Rodney King verdict, a jury composed of nine blacks and three Puerto Ricans acquitted Lemrick Nelson Jr. of the murder -- despite the fact that the police found the bloody murder weapon in his pocket and Rosenbaum's blood on his clothes, and that Rosenbaum, as he lay dying, had identified Nelson as his assailant…. It took two years from Nelson's acquittal to get Reno to bring a civil rights case against him.” Montana News Association [from Coulter, “Demonic”]

a. Number of obvious civil rights violations ignored: Ashcroft, zero; Reno,…at least one.

4. Reno presided over the leak of Richard Jewell’s name as the bomber in the Atlanta Olympic park bombing in 1996. She later apologized. Reno Apologizes for FBI Leak; Jewell Still to Sue, Lawyer Says - Los Angeles Times

a. Number of Americans falsely accused of committing heinous crimes: Ashcroft, zero; Reno, one.

5. Rather than allow a judge to decide, Reno ordered a predawn armed raid to seize Elian Gonzalez. The Gonzalez family had committed no crime, was in violation of no court order. [CTRL] JACKBOOT JANET STOMPS NBC NEWS CREW WHILE MAJOR MEDIA

a. Number of six-year-old boys seized at gunpoint and deported to communist dictatorships: Ashcroft, zero; Reno, one.

Well, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what say you about the judgment of liberals??? Incapacity to reason? Complete lack of critical discernment? Absence of assessment?

So....perhaps Bachmann's not the Devil incarnate.....Hmmmmm.

no, you should not believe 'em. especially not when they are saying that bachmann is devil incarnate.

you should believe coulter. all the time.

 

[konradv]

It's no myth, Marxism is a morally bankrupt set up of ideals. That's been demonstrated time and time again.

Same for libertarianism. What's your point?

True....
But libertarianism is not forced on you.....it is a personal decision.

But you do agree it's "morally bankrupt". Thanks for the confirmation. As long as it's a personal choice, that's fine. You get into trouble when it becomes government policy.

 

[konradv]

As much as I didnt want to get into this BS discussion with you...I will in the hopes that you will move on...

The OP was referring to the HANDLING of the situation...not the cause of the situation.

The entire discussion by the OP was comparing how the media treats opposing AG's...

So move on...no one supports the murder of police officers.

But it appears that way. No one ever mentions them or the fact that they werre given quite some time to surrender. As far as the handling of the situation, who spread gas around the compound? If that hadn't been done by the BDs themselves, nothing the Feds did would have caused that kind of conflagration. The moral relativism I see and the subject you seem to be avoiding, is that the only difference between the Mumia case and the BDs, is that the right hates Clinton and Reno.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I've never been, but Stepford, Conn., sure sounds like a lovely place. From what I'm told, the wives look like supermodels, bake like Martha Stewart, dote on their husbands like Donna Reed and are otherwise the picture of perfection. Just the way it should be.

Or at least, judging from some recent commentary, the way it should be on the campaign trail.



Read more: Michele Bachmann, you're no Stepford Wife: Only a gaffe-proof candidate can win

 

[Jarhead]

Same for libertarianism. What's your point?

True....
But libertarianism is not forced on you.....it is a personal decision.

But you do agree it's "morally bankrupt". Thanks for the confirmation. As long as it's a personal choice, that's fine. You get into trouble when it becomes government policy.

No...you are thinking way too partisan to comprehend what I am saying.

Ideology that one believes in is not morally bankrupt or morally robust. It has nothing to do with morals.

Morals come from within.

When an ideology is not forced on you...it is up to you to apply morality.....as I do.

When an ideology is forced upon you...you are forced to live by the morals of those that force it upon you.

 

[Jarhead]

As much as I didnt want to get into this BS discussion with you...I will in the hopes that you will move on...

The OP was referring to the HANDLING of the situation...not the cause of the situation.

The entire discussion by the OP was comparing how the media treats opposing AG's...

So move on...no one supports the murder of police officers.

But it appears that way. No one ever mentions them or the fact that they werre given quite some time to surrender. As far as the handling of the situation, who spread gas around the compound? If that hadn't been done by the BDs themselves, nothing the Feds did would have caused that kind of conflagration. The moral relativism I see and the subject you seem to be avoiding, is that the only difference between the Mumia case and the BDs, is that the right hates Clinton and Reno.

I again need to remind you...

The OP was not knocking or commending either AG.

She was simply comparing how the media reacted to each AG.

It was the media that did not knock the AG over one but DID knock the AG over the other.

Only YOU opted to refer to the left and the right and THEIR reaction to the situations.

Not the OP.

Your partisanship is showing and it is annoying.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

How about we check start with her voting record. You can find it here.

Project Vote Smart - American Government, Elections, Candidates and Voting

Dont take anyone's word for anything. They are all politicians and liars, reported on by cable news.

 

[Si modo]

I've never been, but Stepford, Conn., sure sounds like a lovely place. From what I'm told, the wives look like supermodels, bake like Martha Stewart, dote on their husbands like Donna Reed and are otherwise the picture of perfection. Just the way it should be.

Or at least, judging from some recent commentary, the way it should be on the campaign trail.

At the very least, Michele Bachmann needs to visit Stepford, where she would finally learn how to avoid the kinds of gaffes that have kept her from political perfection.

Her latest unforgivable gaffe - confusing Waterloo, Iowa, as the birthplace of actor John Wayne, when it was in fact serial killer John Wayne Gacy who was born there - once again has the congresswoman explaining herself in the wake of Monday's announcement that she is entering the 2012 presidential contest. "Some of the wild statements uttered by Republican presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann are coming back to haunt her," Reuters opined on Tuesday.

Right on. How could she not know, as Reuters helpfully pointed out, "that Wayne was born 150 miles away in Winterset, Iowa." A woman who'd make such a mistake is not fit for the presidency. I, for one, am outraged.

And worse, this is strike two for Bachmann! Only a few months ago, she also confused Concord, N.H., as the site of the famous "shot heard 'round the world," which happened, in fact, in Concord, Mass. Politico hurled this dagger: "To get such basic facts wrong about the country's birth is revealing."

Ouch. How am I supposed to send someone to the White House who doesn't know the difference between two historic Concords that sit a whopping 60 miles apart from each other?

Read more: Michele Bachmann, you're no Stepford Wife: Only a gaffe-proof candidate can win

Gacy was born in Chicago. He just happened to work in Waterloo for a bit before returning to Chicago.

 

[westwall]

Sure, run when you're called out!!! It just goes to show that the rightists are total hypocrites when they talk about the left's "moral relativism". How do the BDs become heroes and Mumia becomes a pariah, when they both did the same thing?

konny, you couldn't call out a mouse.

Another moral relativist speaks! It's amazing how they either ignore the BDs' murder of men who were simply serving a search warrant or treat them as is they were some sort of heroes. If someone did the same for Mumia, they'd be screaming to high heaven.

Moral relativist? I am nothing if not consistent konny. I am a constitutional fundamentalist and I don't care what color you are. If you are a bad person I want you in jail. End of story.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sure, run when you're called out!!! It just goes to show that the rightists are total hypocrites when they talk about the left's "moral relativism". How do the BDs become heroes and Mumia becomes a pariah, when they both did the same thing?

Can you find a quote from the OP that claims that "BDs become heroes and Mumia becomes a pariah"???

Otherwise, it appears that either you are purposely avoiding the obvious conclusion of the OP....

...or, you suffer from a mental condition that has you wandering around muttering "judge wapner, five o'clock, judge wapner, five o'clock...."


So....which is it- and hurry, or you'll miss the Judge Wapner.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Janet Reno should probably be in Prison for what she did to those poor Women & Children at Waco. The damn Democrats didn't even demand her resignation for God's sake. She completely botched that thing. And this current Democrat Attorney General is a disgrace too. He's clearly a Stone-Cold Racist. And he's also incredibly incompetent. His Mexico Drug Cartel Gun scam actually got American Citizens killed. Holder should be removed immediately. He really is threat to our Nation. Ashcroft was a Saint compared to these horrifying Democrat Attorney Generals. So no,don't believe these dunces on Bachmann. They've been wrong about so much. So they're likely wrong on Bachmann too.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Four separate threads sharing the Liberal view of Michelle Bachmann!

Must be true....I guess....

until I read Coulter's expose of the Liberal view of John Ashcroft, you know, as the “the worst attorney-general in history.”

Check it out, then see how much confidence one can put in the Libeal viewpoint:

No discussion of the Liberal mind would be complete without a review of the reaction of same to two Attorneys-General, Janet Reno, and John Ashcroft. Nothing could be more enlightening as an example of cognitive dissonance. Should Liberals' judgment about events, or individuals be afforded any cache?

First, what did Liberals think of John Ashcroft?
1. The NYTime’s Paul Krugman called him “the worst attorney-general in history.” Times Higher Education - Gloves off for 'thinking man's Michael Moore'

2. More charitable was Anthony Romero, of the ACLU, who merely pronounced that he “will turn out to be one of the worst attorney generals in American history.” NPR, Liane Hansen Weekend Edition, November 14, 2004.

3. Rutgers University law professor Frank Askin: he was “the worst attorney general in my memory,” and “There’s nothing good I can say about him. I’m glad he’s gone.’ AP, “NJ Muslims, Libertarians Glad To See Ashcroft Go,” November 10, 2004.

4. The Nation called him a ‘fascist.’ Nation Topics - John Ashcroft | The Nation

5. “People for the American Way compared him to the "virulent segregationists" of the Jim Crow South. Handgun Control Inc. likened his views to those of "convicted mass-murderer Timothy McVeigh." The Los Angeles Times depicted him in a cartoon as a Klansman, complete with white robe and hood.” Boston.com / News / Boston Globe / Opinion / Op-ed / We owe Ashcroft thanks

Now, how about an objective view of the Attorney-General that Ashcroft succeeded.

1. Attorney General Reno’s military-style attack on a religious sect in Waco, Texas led to the greatest number of US civilians ever killed by the government in the history of the United States. Clearly, Reno felt that the presence of a weird cult rose to the level of a threat to the domestic tranquility of the nation. Kent State, 4 killed; Haymarket prosecutions, 4 executed; Three Mile Island, zero.

a. American Civilians killed: Ashcroft, zero; Reno, 80.

2. While Dade County state attorney, Reno persecuted the most decorated police officer in the history of South Miami PD with a totally fabricated “repressed memory child molestation” conviction. He served 12 years before the Supreme Court threw it out.

a. Innocent people imprisoned not just for crime they didn’t commit, but for crime that never happened: Ashcroft, zero; Reno…at least one.

3. “On Aug. 19, 1991, rabbinical student Yankel Rosenbaum was stabbed to death in Crown Heights by a black racist mob shouting "Kill the Jew!" as retaliation for another Hasidic man killing a black child in a car accident hours earlier.

In a far clearer case of jury nullification than the first Rodney King verdict, a jury composed of nine blacks and three Puerto Ricans acquitted Lemrick Nelson Jr. of the murder -- despite the fact that the police found the bloody murder weapon in his pocket and Rosenbaum's blood on his clothes, and that Rosenbaum, as he lay dying, had identified Nelson as his assailant…. It took two years from Nelson's acquittal to get Reno to bring a civil rights case against him.” Montana News Association [from Coulter, “Demonic”]

a. Number of obvious civil rights violations ignored: Ashcroft, zero; Reno,…at least one.

4. Reno presided over the leak of Richard Jewell’s name as the bomber in the Atlanta Olympic park bombing in 1996. She later apologized. Reno Apologizes for FBI Leak; Jewell Still to Sue, Lawyer Says - Los Angeles Times

a. Number of Americans falsely accused of committing heinous crimes: Ashcroft, zero; Reno, one.

5. Rather than allow a judge to decide, Reno ordered a predawn armed raid to seize Elian Gonzalez. The Gonzalez family had committed no crime, was in violation of no court order. [CTRL] JACKBOOT JANET STOMPS NBC NEWS CREW WHILE MAJOR MEDIA

a. Number of six-year-old boys seized at gunpoint and deported to communist dictatorships: Ashcroft, zero; Reno, one.

Well, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what say you about the judgment of liberals??? Incapacity to reason? Complete lack of critical discernment? Absence of assessment?

So....perhaps Bachmann's not the Devil incarnate.....Hmmmmm.

That has to be the worst logical fallacy in history.

Nothing you said has any relevance whatsoever to whether anything said about Michele Bachmann is true or not.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Krugman is a Leftist Nutter asshole. He should start looking to his fellow Democrats for the worst Attorney General in History. Reno & Holder are Criminals in my opinion. They caused the deaths of American Citizens. They should both be wearing orange jumpsuits. Like i said,Ashcroft is a Saint compared to those miscreants.

 

[Si modo]

Four separate threads sharing the Liberal view of Michelle Bachmann!

Must be true....I guess....

until I read Coulter's expose of the Liberal view of John Ashcroft, you know, as the “the worst attorney-general in history.”

Check it out, then see how much confidence one can put in the Libeal viewpoint:

No discussion of the Liberal mind would be complete without a review of the reaction of same to two Attorneys-General, Janet Reno, and John Ashcroft. Nothing could be more enlightening as an example of cognitive dissonance. Should Liberals' judgment about events, or individuals be afforded any cache?

First, what did Liberals think of John Ashcroft?
1. The NYTime’s Paul Krugman called him “the worst attorney-general in history.” Times Higher Education - Gloves off for 'thinking man's Michael Moore'

2. More charitable was Anthony Romero, of the ACLU, who merely pronounced that he “will turn out to be one of the worst attorney generals in American history.” NPR, Liane Hansen Weekend Edition, November 14, 2004.

3. Rutgers University law professor Frank Askin: he was “the worst attorney general in my memory,” and “There’s nothing good I can say about him. I’m glad he’s gone.’ AP, “NJ Muslims, Libertarians Glad To See Ashcroft Go,” November 10, 2004.

4. The Nation called him a ‘fascist.’ Nation Topics - John Ashcroft | The Nation

5. “People for the American Way compared him to the "virulent segregationists" of the Jim Crow South. Handgun Control Inc. likened his views to those of "convicted mass-murderer Timothy McVeigh." The Los Angeles Times depicted him in a cartoon as a Klansman, complete with white robe and hood.” Boston.com / News / Boston Globe / Opinion / Op-ed / We owe Ashcroft thanks

Now, how about an objective view of the Attorney-General that Ashcroft succeeded.

1. Attorney General Reno’s military-style attack on a religious sect in Waco, Texas led to the greatest number of US civilians ever killed by the government in the history of the United States. Clearly, Reno felt that the presence of a weird cult rose to the level of a threat to the domestic tranquility of the nation. Kent State, 4 killed; Haymarket prosecutions, 4 executed; Three Mile Island, zero.

a. American Civilians killed: Ashcroft, zero; Reno, 80.

2. While Dade County state attorney, Reno persecuted the most decorated police officer in the history of South Miami PD with a totally fabricated “repressed memory child molestation” conviction. He served 12 years before the Supreme Court threw it out.

a. Innocent people imprisoned not just for crime they didn’t commit, but for crime that never happened: Ashcroft, zero; Reno…at least one.

3. “On Aug. 19, 1991, rabbinical student Yankel Rosenbaum was stabbed to death in Crown Heights by a black racist mob shouting "Kill the Jew!" as retaliation for another Hasidic man killing a black child in a car accident hours earlier.

In a far clearer case of jury nullification than the first Rodney King verdict, a jury composed of nine blacks and three Puerto Ricans acquitted Lemrick Nelson Jr. of the murder -- despite the fact that the police found the bloody murder weapon in his pocket and Rosenbaum's blood on his clothes, and that Rosenbaum, as he lay dying, had identified Nelson as his assailant…. It took two years from Nelson's acquittal to get Reno to bring a civil rights case against him.” Montana News Association [from Coulter, “Demonic”]

a. Number of obvious civil rights violations ignored: Ashcroft, zero; Reno,…at least one.

4. Reno presided over the leak of Richard Jewell’s name as the bomber in the Atlanta Olympic park bombing in 1996. She later apologized. Reno Apologizes for FBI Leak; Jewell Still to Sue, Lawyer Says - Los Angeles Times

a. Number of Americans falsely accused of committing heinous crimes: Ashcroft, zero; Reno, one.

5. Rather than allow a judge to decide, Reno ordered a predawn armed raid to seize Elian Gonzalez. The Gonzalez family had committed no crime, was in violation of no court order. [CTRL] JACKBOOT JANET STOMPS NBC NEWS CREW WHILE MAJOR MEDIA

a. Number of six-year-old boys seized at gunpoint and deported to communist dictatorships: Ashcroft, zero; Reno, one.

Well, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what say you about the judgment of liberals??? Incapacity to reason? Complete lack of critical discernment? Absence of assessment?

So....perhaps Bachmann's not the Devil incarnate.....Hmmmmm.

That has to be the worst logical fallacy in history.

Nothing you said has any relevance whatsoever to whether anything said about Michele Bachmann is true or not.

The point was, the pundits judge Ashcroft on intangibles and rank him the worst; then they give Reno a pass on plenty of tangibles - plenty of bad shit she did. Plenty.

The same group of pundits also think Bachmann is bad.

Given nothing else to go on, the reasonable person would not give these pundits much cred.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Democrats Reno & Holder actually caused the needless deaths of American Citizens. How can Democrats be so damn ignorant? Reno kills all those poor women & children at Waco and Holder kills American Citizens with his Mexican Drug cartel Gun scam,yet Democrats actually think Ashcroft was a worse Attorney General? Krugman should lose his job for being so stupid. Democrat Attorney Generals have proven to be the worst of the worst. It's not even close. I'm actually still waiting for charges to be filed against Janet Reno and Eric Holder. Now that would be Justice.