Serious question for atheists.

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So. Several people have said that they would not worship their Creator. The One who gave them life. The One who sent His only Son do die so that they may live. And THAT is why you're going to Hell. Don't bother replying. There is nothing you say that would excuse such sinful pride. Such arrogance.

Wrong.

The arrogance belongs solely to you and other like Christians.

 

[ABikerSailor]

It's fun to watch the Magnificent Scat flail around and say that people need to believe in their God and worship Him, because all other Gods are false.

They must be a Trump supporter.

 

[JoeB131]

OK. Now it's time for the insult. You're a blithering idiot. You think That someone can live a life of sin and still go to Heaven? Scripture says otherwise. You are either a fool or being deliberately deceitful. Which is it?

Actually, if you go by scripture, very few of us are getting into heaven, including most Republicans.

"It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God"-

 

[Slade3200]

And I would appreciate a serious answer.

If there was absolute proof that God exists, would you worship Him? No commemtary required. Just a simple yes or no.
EDIT: I'M REFERRING TO THE CHRISTIAN GOD IN THE BIBLE.

What do you mean when you say worship?

Ever seen sports fans at a championship game? That is the kind of worship that God deserves.

Not sure I understand that analogy. Sports fans cheer for their team to win as they watch them compete. How are you relating that to worshiping god?

 

[pinqy]

So that bill is paid for everyone.

Not really. Consider it similar to a general amnesty. You need to come forward and get registered. The debt is paid, but one must first acknowledge that debt. And since most people won't even admit that God exists...

Nope, the debt is paid whether you know it or not, Jesus made a blanket coverage, he never said otherwise.

So that bill is paid for everyone.

Not really. Consider it similar to a general amnesty. You need to come forward and get registered. The debt is paid, but one must first acknowledge that debt. And since most people won't even admit that God exists...

Nope, the debt is paid whether you know it or not, Jesus made a blanket coverage, he never said otherwise.

The coverage is available, but not everyone takes advantage of it. The only way to be saved is by repenting and asking God to save you.

We don't have to repent, Jesus paid that bill.

OK. Now it's time for the insult. You're a blithering idiot. You think That someone can live a life of sin and still go to Heaven? Scripture says otherwise. You are either a fool or being deliberately deceitful. Which is it?

The thief on the cross. Or anyone that converts at their life.
And “we are all sinners.”

But the irony is that you don’t think that even if a person led a sinless life, but didn’t believe in Jesus, he could go to heaven.

So sin is completely irrelevant if the sole criterion is acceptance of Christ.
(Not all sects follow this version and they do believe sin is important)

 

[rightwinger]

Not really. Consider it similar to a general amnesty. You need to come forward and get registered. The debt is paid, but one must first acknowledge that debt. And since most people won't even admit that God exists...

Nope, the debt is paid whether you know it or not, Jesus made a blanket coverage, he never said otherwise.

Not really. Consider it similar to a general amnesty. You need to come forward and get registered. The debt is paid, but one must first acknowledge that debt. And since most people won't even admit that God exists...

Nope, the debt is paid whether you know it or not, Jesus made a blanket coverage, he never said otherwise.

The coverage is available, but not everyone takes advantage of it. The only way to be saved is by repenting and asking God to save you.

We don't have to repent, Jesus paid that bill.

OK. Now it's time for the insult. You're a blithering idiot. You think That someone can live a life of sin and still go to Heaven? Scripture says otherwise. You are either a fool or being deliberately deceitful. Which is it?

I was taught that Jesus died for my sins on the cross. Deal with it.

Hé died for all of us

Even the Mooslims

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Hé died for all of us

Someome could have let him in on it beforehand...the poor sap was hanging there, wondering why he was there....

 

[Taz]

Hé died for all of us

Someome could have let him in on it beforehand...the poor sap was hanging there, wondering why he was there....

Everyone got to see whether he was circumcised, except no account of whether he was or wasn't.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

And I would appreciate a serious answer.

If there was absolute proof that God exists, would you worship Him? No commemtary required. Just a simple yes or no.
EDIT: I'M REFERRING TO THE CHRISTIAN GOD IN THE BIBLE.

I believe in God, but not Christ.

Why not? There is historical proof that he existed and was crucified. There are also eyewitness accounts of His resurrection.

Nonsense.

The Jesus myth is just that: a myth.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So that bill is paid for everyone.

Not really. Consider it similar to a general amnesty. You need to come forward and get registered. The debt is paid, but one must first acknowledge that debt. And since most people won't even admit that God exists...

Nope, the debt is paid whether you know it or not, Jesus made a blanket coverage, he never said otherwise.

So that bill is paid for everyone.

Not really. Consider it similar to a general amnesty. You need to come forward and get registered. The debt is paid, but one must first acknowledge that debt. And since most people won't even admit that God exists...

Nope, the debt is paid whether you know it or not, Jesus made a blanket coverage, he never said otherwise.

The coverage is available, but not everyone takes advantage of it. The only way to be saved is by repenting and asking God to save you.

We don't have to repent, Jesus paid that bill.

OK. Now it's time for the insult. You're a blithering idiot. You think That someone can live a life of sin and still go to Heaven? Scripture says otherwise. You are either a fool or being deliberately deceitful. Which is it?

Those who believe in childish nonsense such as ‘going to heaven’ are in no position to refer to others as blithering idiots.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Pardon one moment..

The problem is that for matter and energy to do what matter and energy do, there has to be rules in place for matter and energy to obey. The formation of space and time followed rules. Specifically the law of conservation and quantum mechanics. These laws existed before space and time and defined the potential of everything which was possible. These laws are no thing. So we literally have an example of no thing existing before the material world. The creation of space and time from nothing is literally correct. Space and time were created from no thing. Spirit is no thing. No thing created space and time.

Horse hockey. Perturbations (even random changes in density) of the Aether (think Dark Matter) induce dielectric fields. "Dielectric Ether fields in special geometric forms give rise to the creation of matter which itself is a stable form (“strong nuclear force”) of dielectricity, which then has its own field, centripetal gravitational fields. All fields were created, or are the result of the termination of another field of Ether" - Ken Wheeler. "Nothing" is a true void which only exist where there's no Aether such as within Black Holes. Matter can easily be witnessed spewing from the dielectric plane's center at the center of many galaxies.

Okay, proceed..

 

[ding]

How can you demonstrate that? And the concept of “nothing” is interesting. If I say there is nothing in my hands, my hands still exist (we’ll ignore air and microscopic particles). But when you talk about nothing before the universe, that means no space, either...no frame. So there really can’t be nothing at all.

Matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates space and time.

Your logic is tortured here. If it is true that matter and energy create space and time, then they would have to exist outside if space and time in order to create it. The creator has to exist prior to the creation.

I didn't say that matter and energy create space and time. I said that they can't exist without space and time being created. Matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time.

We know from science that space and time had a beginning. Specifically, red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations, quantum mechanics, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Inflation Theory.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation and Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations tells us that all matter and energy in the universe once occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom and then began to expand and cool. The the First Law of Thermodynamics (i.e. conservation of energy) tells us that since that time matter and energy has only changed form. Which means that the atoms in our bodies were created from nothing when space and and time were created from nothing.

Red shift, cosmic background radiation, Friedmann's solutions to Einstein's field equations and the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that space and time did have a beginning. If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. The problem with a cyclical universe is with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. For every matter to energy or energy to matter exchange there is a loss of usable energy. So while the total energy of the universe does not decrease, the usable energy of the universe does decrease. If it is a periodic or cyclical universe then the entropy will increase with each cycle. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is a fundamental law of nature which tells us that entropy can only increase or stay the same. Entropy can never decrease. Which means that in a finite amount of time, a finite system will reach a maximum state of disorder which is called thermal equilibrium and then it will stay in that state. A cyclical universe cannot avoid this problem. Since we do not see thermal equilibrium (good thing too because there would be no life) we know that the universe did have a beginning.

Inflation Theory, the First Law of Thermodynamics and quantum mechanics tells us that it is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

What boggles me is, if all matter occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of an atom, then where did all this matter that we see today come from?

Look at all the planets, stars, gas, elements that exist throughout the universe. All that was contained in something as small as what you mentioned?

I understand the singularity could have been dense, but I dont think it could have been that dense.

All the matter we see, even on earth alone couldn't have fit into something so small.

True, I'm no astrophysicist, so I may not understand the complexity, but to say everything that exists in the universe came from something as small as 1 billionth of.1 trillionth the size of an atom doesnt seem logical.

Don't forget that matter and energy are interchangeable and energy has no spatial dimensions. I think of matter as solidified energy and the big bang as the constriction of an hourglass. A whole lot of sand passing from a big space to a big space through a very small space.

The creation of space and time which began with subatomic particles was spatial.

 

[ding]

Pardon one moment..

The problem is that for matter and energy to do what matter and energy do, there has to be rules in place for matter and energy to obey. The formation of space and time followed rules. Specifically the law of conservation and quantum mechanics. These laws existed before space and time and defined the potential of everything which was possible. These laws are no thing. So we literally have an example of no thing existing before the material world. The creation of space and time from nothing is literally correct. Space and time were created from no thing. Spirit is no thing. No thing created space and time.

Horse hockey. Perturbations (even random changes in density) of the Aether (think Dark Matter) induce dielectric fields. "Dielectric Ether fields in special geometric forms give rise to the creation of matter which itself is a stable form (“strong nuclear force”) of dielectricity, which then has its own field, centripetal gravitational fields. All fields were created, or are the result of the termination of another field of Ether" - Ken Wheeler. "Nothing" is a true void which only exist where there's no Aether such as within Black Holes. Matter can easily be witnessed spewing from the dielectric plane's center at the center of many galaxies.

Okay, proceed..

Proceed with what? The reality is the laws were in place before space and time itself.

 

[ding]

Pardon one moment..

The problem is that for matter and energy to do what matter and energy do, there has to be rules in place for matter and energy to obey. The formation of space and time followed rules. Specifically the law of conservation and quantum mechanics. These laws existed before space and time and defined the potential of everything which was possible. These laws are no thing. So we literally have an example of no thing existing before the material world. The creation of space and time from nothing is literally correct. Space and time were created from no thing. Spirit is no thing. No thing created space and time.

Horse hockey. Perturbations (even random changes in density) of the Aether (think Dark Matter) induce dielectric fields. "Dielectric Ether fields in special geometric forms give rise to the creation of matter which itself is a stable form (“strong nuclear force”) of dielectricity, which then has its own field, centripetal gravitational fields. All fields were created, or are the result of the termination of another field of Ether" - Ken Wheeler. "Nothing" is a true void which only exist where there's no Aether such as within Black Holes. Matter can easily be witnessed spewing from the dielectric plane's center at the center of many galaxies.

Okay, proceed..

Aether? Dark matter?

Dark matter would require space and time to exist.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Laws and time are human constructs that serve only our purposes. Plants and other animals don't need or use them so couldn't care less. They have no impact upon non-human nature. Space is not void. It does not warp around matter. Space time is BS. Bohr atom model worship (Quantum Mechanics) as well. Without the Aether there would be no space, counterspace, matter, light, dielectricity, magnetism.. There would be nothing. If you feel you must pray to something, best pray to the Aether.

 

[alang1216]

Laws and time are human constructs that serve only our purposes. Plants and other animals don't need or use them so couldn't care less. They have no impact upon non-human nature. Space is not void. It does not warp around matter. Space time is BS. Bohr atom model worship (Quantum Mechanics) as well. Without the Aether there would be no space, counterspace, matter, light, dielectricity, magnetism.. There would be nothing. If you feel you must pray to something, best pray to the Aether.

I'm impressed. I don't see anything in this post that is true.

 

[ding]

Laws and time are human constructs that serve only our purposes. Plants and other animals don't need or use them so couldn't care less. They have no impact upon non-human nature. Space is not void. It does not warp around matter. Space time is BS. Bohr atom model worship (Quantum Mechanics) as well. Without the Aether there would be no space, counterspace, matter, light, dielectricity, magnetism.. There would be nothing. If you feel you must pray to something, best pray to the Aether.

No. There is a material world that was created from nothing ~14 billion years ago.

Not a human construct at all. In fact, humans are a product of that creation.

 

[Taz]

Laws and time are human constructs that serve only our purposes. Plants and other animals don't need or use them so couldn't care less. They have no impact upon non-human nature. Space is not void. It does not warp around matter. Space time is BS. Bohr atom model worship (Quantum Mechanics) as well. Without the Aether there would be no space, counterspace, matter, light, dielectricity, magnetism.. There would be nothing. If you feel you must pray to something, best pray to the Aether.

No. There is a material world that was created from nothing ~14 billion years ago.

Not a human construct at all. In fact, humans are a product of that creation.

You don't know that the universe was created from nothing. Stop pretending.

 

[Taz]

Pardon one moment..

The problem is that for matter and energy to do what matter and energy do, there has to be rules in place for matter and energy to obey. The formation of space and time followed rules. Specifically the law of conservation and quantum mechanics. These laws existed before space and time and defined the potential of everything which was possible. These laws are no thing. So we literally have an example of no thing existing before the material world. The creation of space and time from nothing is literally correct. Space and time were created from no thing. Spirit is no thing. No thing created space and time.

Horse hockey. Perturbations (even random changes in density) of the Aether (think Dark Matter) induce dielectric fields. "Dielectric Ether fields in special geometric forms give rise to the creation of matter which itself is a stable form (“strong nuclear force”) of dielectricity, which then has its own field, centripetal gravitational fields. All fields were created, or are the result of the termination of another field of Ether" - Ken Wheeler. "Nothing" is a true void which only exist where there's no Aether such as within Black Holes. Matter can easily be witnessed spewing from the dielectric plane's center at the center of many galaxies.

Okay, proceed..

Proceed with what? The reality is the laws were in place before space and time itself.

You don't know that. Stop pretending.

 

[Grumblenuts]

To really understand what drives nature requires forgetting all that BS we've been force fed and to observe reality instead. A good place to start your reprogramming is to accept one primary truism or "law" which is that geometry clearly rules. Where left to nature's own devices consistent patterns of spatial orientation emerge. 22 page paper:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1f56/48a45169c011c82a23273f30cc297850484a.pdf