Screw Abstinence Party

[Gunny]

Actually, Gabby, teenage girls of my era faced the same pressures. We also had hormones, as did the males of our age group (I know it's hard to grasp, but humans have pretty much been dominated by hormones for their entire existence). We also had social pressure...........to abstain.....but that didn't keep us from doing what came naturally. However, we didn't have the readily available birth control remedy of abortion handy, therefore, we practiced other methods of not getting pregnant.

Also, what makes you think rape and date rape didn't occur back then? And, FYI, date rape is "real physical rape". And, the fear and extortion were just as rampant back then as it is now.



Scarred for the rest of their lives......as opposed to taking the life of an innocent baby. I wouldn't be happy about it, but I believe it is a fair alternative.



Now, Gabby, do you really think all females who oppose using abortion as a method of birth control are male-dominated females? I certainly do not believe that all women who are pro-abortion are also anti-male.

You do make some valid points about rape, and you left out the whole incest aspect, and the option of abortion. I'm not opposed to abortion in the instance of rape or incest, or when the mother's life is at risk. However, as I mentioned previously, I am opposed to the indiscriminate use of abortion as a method of birth control.

I think I've pretty much said everything I want to regarding this subject. Can we agree to disagree on this particular aspect? :cof:

Yeah ...what she said .... :bat:

 

[Bonnie]

Gabriella84

But, of course, you don't think of that. As long as the kid is born, you could care less whether the mom chunks him/her in the trash bin an hour later. It's a "child" until it is born, then it becomes nothing to you. It's someone else's problem.
If you want be to support the "rights of the unborn," here is what you do. Find a mother that wants to have an abortion, then convince her not to. Pay all the pregnancy costs, then adopt the baby when it is born. If it means that much to you, why not step up to the plate?

Get your facts straight on this one, there are many organizations that do just that, not funded by government, but charitable organizations devoted to offering alternatives to abortion that take care of the mom, the baby, by providing shelter, medical care, schooling so when the mother leaves she can get a job and support her baby. I have volunteered for one such. So your argument is stale and unsupported.

 

[Gabriella84]

Bonnie, how many of those organizations work with poor kids, or kids who are black or Latino?

How the the "scarring" of abortion compare with the countless years it takes to raise a child? If you are 14-16 years old, I am sure the "scarring" of an abortion is minimal compared to having your life completely altered by an unplanned pregnancy.
Aren't most abortions performed in the first 6-8 weeks? I can see where you might be upset in the 5th and 6th month.

Not every woman in America shares your ultra conservative viewpoints. They should be in control, not you. No one tells you that you can't hunt, fish, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol or drive your gas-guzzling SUV all over the place. Stop legislating morality. It's not of your business.

 

[manu1959]

No one tells you that you can't hunt, fish, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol or drive your gas-guzzling SUV all over the place. Stop legislating morality. It's not of your business.

that is so not true in california

people go postal.....if you "hunt, fish, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol or drive your gas-guzzling SUV all over the place."

 

[Bonnie]

Bonnie, how many of those organizations work with poor kids, or kids who are black or Latino?

How the the "scarring" of abortion compare with the countless years it takes to raise a child? If you are 14-16 years old, I am sure the "scarring" of an abortion is minimal compared to having your life completely altered by an unplanned pregnancy.
Aren't most abortions performed in the first 6-8 weeks? I can see where you might be upset in the 5th and 6th month.

Not every woman in America shares your ultra conservative viewpoints. They should be in control, not you. No one tells you that you can't hunt, fish, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol or drive your gas-guzzling SUV all over the place. Stop legislating morality. It's not of your business.

My post addressed your assertion. Many abortions are performed after the first trimester. Regarding the hunting, drinking and driving SUV's yes the government has regulations to all that in place especially smoking which is now even illegal in your car and in public outdoor places. Secondly murdering a human should be regulated by the government not because of anyone's specific morality but rather a secular issue that everyone has the right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness which is in that secular founding document. Thirdly the organizations I volunteered at never stopped anyone from getting an abortion but rather made it pssible for women to have an alternative to that and since you Liberals believe in charity and freedom of choice so damned much you of all people should be embracing the efforts done by these people, to dismiss them simply because they don't also address other kinds of poverty is one of the most riduculous things I have ever heard....There are many other charities that do take care of the needy, they are all over and are called soup kitchens, homeless shelters and C.A.R.E...............

 

[no1tovote4]

Bonnie, how many of those organizations work with poor kids, or kids who are black or Latino?

Almost all of them. The idea that they ignore these people is a sad and silly notion. You go where people need you when you are working in one of those programs.

How the the "scarring" of abortion compare with the countless years it takes to raise a child? If you are 14-16 years old, I am sure the "scarring" of an abortion is minimal compared to having your life completely altered by an unplanned pregnancy.

After my sister had an abortion she was so distraught and felt so guilty that later after her rape she conceived and abortion was never a choice, and she therefore bore a nice young gentleman that is currently my Nephew. While the first two and 1/2 years the boy lived at my house and I had legally adopted him, I was thrilled afterwards when my sister realized what a joy the young man was and was able to take over his care.

This assumption that abortion is a joy-joy experience that all women would want in case of rape is wrong. And regardless of the personalization of the issue, there is no cause to kill the offspring for the sins of the father, it isn't justice to create another nameless victim.

I still think we should work to remove the fetus undamaged and work to bring them to term ex-utero. At first almost all of the youngest fetuses would die, but in time we could save the life of the unborn at the same time we give the right of REAL Choice to the mother rather than allowing one person's right of choice to deny the right to life of a developing human being.

Aren't most abortions performed in the first 6-8 weeks? I can see where you might be upset in the 5th and 6th month.

Why would it matter to me when it was done? To me it seems the same as bringing the child to term then drowning it. That it is at a different point of development doesn't make it any less than human offspring.

Not every woman in America shares your ultra conservative viewpoints. They should be in control, not you. No one tells you that you can't hunt, fish, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol or drive your gas-guzzling SUV all over the place. Stop legislating morality. It's not of your business.

It isn't morality I would want to legislate, but life, there is no way that any right of one person can ever overcome the right to life of another, even when the other is still developing. That you might want to name it "a bunch of cells" or denigrate the offspring as less than something of value by using any other term to make yourself feel better about such a choice makes no dent in the argument for life, or the fact that it isn't morality that one would be legislating. Children should not die for the convenience of the mobile, not at any age. According to the numbers that Planned Parenthood gives out 97% of abortions are for convenience, not for the health of child or mother or in cases of rape.

www.silentscream.org

 

[Abbey Normal]

How the the "scarring" of abortion compare with the countless years it takes to raise a child? If you are 14-16 years old, I am sure the "scarring" of an abortion is minimal compared to having your life completely altered by an unplanned pregnancy...

The fact that you can even type this tells me that you really don't know what you are talking about on this subject.

 

[Avatar4321]

My post addressed your assertion. Many abortions are performed after the first trimester. Regarding the hunting, drinking and driving SUV's yes the government has regulations to all that in place especially smoking which is now even illegal in your car and in public outdoor places. Secondly murdering a human should be regulated by the government not because of anyone's specific morality but rather a secular issue that everyone has the right to life liberty and the persuit of happiness which is in that secular founding document. Thirdly the organizations I volunteered at never stopped anyone from getting an abortion but rather made it pssible for women to have an alternative to that and since you Liberals believe in charity and freedom of choice so damned much you of all people should be embracing the efforts done by these people, to dismiss them simply because they don't also address other kinds of poverty is one of the most riduculous things I have ever heard....There are many other charities that do take care of the needy, they are all over and are called soup kitchens, homeless shelters and C.A.R.E...............

Thing is, Liberals dont give a damn about choice. They are pro abortion, period. You suggest another way of doing things and offer people choice and you are somehow taking away their "rights" to murder their child.

 

[Gem]

Gabby,

Your comments regarding people not wanting to pay for a baby once its born are interesting. You seem to assert that a reason to support abortions is that pro-life individuals (or any individuals) do not do enough to support these children financially.

Does this mean that if people were willing to give financial support to these children you would be willing to force a woman to continue in an unwanted pregancy?

Do you believe that abortions should be "safe, legal, and RARE?" Or are you more interested in the "safe and legal" aspect of it?

 

[Said1]

Thirdly the organizations I volunteered at never stopped anyone from getting an abortion but rather made it pssible for women to have an alternative to that and since you Liberals believe in charity and freedom of choice so damned much you of all people should be embracing the efforts done by these people, to dismiss them simply because they don't also address other kinds of poverty is one of the most riduculous things I have ever heard....There are many other charities that do take care of the needy, they are all over and are called soup kitchens, homeless shelters and C.A.R.E...............

Many pro-life groups DO help young mothers with clothing, other baby items, food and general support. This is not intended to be for a long perioid of time, but it helps when the baby is a new born, which is the most crucial time for young mothers.

 

[Nuc]

Fact is abortion is legal in this country and that's not going to change. We only have two political parties. The Democrats want abortion to be legal and will not change. The Republicans likewise want abortion to be legal. They just pretend not to so they can sucker gullible single issue voters into voting Republican.

The best you can hope to do is persuade people not to have abortions, or not to get pregnant in the first place, or not to even have sex in the first place.

Dream on about abortion becoming illegal. That will not happen.

 

[GotZoom]

Bonnie, how many of those organizations work with poor kids, or kids who are black or Latino?

Last time I checked, poor kids, kids who are black or Latino...

still have at least one parent/person raising them.

Instead of putting the pressure on outside organizations, how about starting with them?

 

[Abbey Normal]

...
Dream on about abortion becoming illegal. That will not happen.

Not necessarily true. I am sure that people once thought we'd always have slavery, and women would never have the right to vote. There is nothing as constant as change.

 

[Nuc]

Not necessarily true. I am sure that people once thought we'd always have slavery, and women would never have the right to vote. There is nothing as constant as change.

Hopefully one day we will live in a world where abortion is not necessary. In the meantime legal abortion is favored by a large majority of Americans. Republicans like to make noise about abolishing abortion rights, but they will not actually do anything about it because that would tip the balance against them. The last two elections were very close. If they ever succeeded in outlawing abortion (unlikely because they are not even trying) there will be a huge backlash against the Republicans. That might help them in some local elections, but on a national level it will backfire.

Abolishing slavery and giving women the vote gave those people more rights. Abolishing abortion takes away rights. Or if you prefer it takes away the rights of people who are in a position to vote. Fetuses can't vote. The analogy is not really equivalent.

 

[Gabriella84]

What does this have to do with us irresponsible horny girls wanting to have sex?

If any of you want to send your daughters to Cal, I am sure I can fix them up with a hottie.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Hopefully one day we will live in a world where abortion is not necessary. In the meantime legal abortion is favored by a large majority of Americans. Republicans like to make noise about abolishing abortion rights, but they will not actually do anything about it because that would tip the balance against them. The last two elections were very close. If they ever succeeded in outlawing abortion (unlikely because they are not even trying) there will be a huge backlash against the Republicans. That might help them in some local elections, but on a national level it will backfire.

Abolishing slavery and giving women the vote gave those people more rights. Abolishing abortion takes away rights. Or if you prefer it takes away the rights of people who are in a position to vote. Fetuses can't vote. The analogy is not really equivalent.

It may take away the right of a pregnant woman to kill her own child, but it simultaneously gives a pretty important right to the fetus- the right to live. And letting someone live is about a huge a right as can ever be conferred. It trumps voting eligibility by a mile. Children and felons can't vote, yet they have other rights, so I wouldn't see that as determinative of anything.

 

[Nuc]

It may take away the right of a pregnant woman to kill her own child, but it simultaneously gives a pretty important right to the fetus- the right to live. And letting someone live is about a huge a right as can ever be conferred. It trumps voting eligibility by a mile. Children and felons can't vote, yet they have other rights, so I wouldn't see that as determinative of anything.

You are correct, but I'm just saying that's why Roe v. Wade is here to stay. There are too many people, right or wrong, who favor the right to abortion. They are the majority and we live in a democracy. It's a losing battle.

 

[Abbey Normal]

You are correct, but I'm just saying that's why Roe v. Wade is here to stay. There are too many people, right or wrong, who favor the right to abortion. They are the majority and we live in a democracy. It's a losing battle.

Would you be in favor of limiting the right to abortion in any way?

 

[Hobbit]

You are correct, but I'm just saying that's why Roe v. Wade is here to stay. There are too many people, right or wrong, who favor the right to abortion. They are the majority and we live in a democracy. It's a losing battle.

We don't know that, since it was legislated by the courts. You may be right that pro-choice people are the majority, but I think pro-life people are the majority. As such, I think it should go to a PUBLIC vote, not an oligarchal vote that's open to only 9 people. Britain hardly has any protest problems with their abortion policy because the people actually got to vote and have their voices heard rather than having the courts tell them that they knew better. I think if we had an actual vote on the issue in this country, it would put a lot of this bullcrap to rest. If pro-choice won the vote, I'd still disagree with it, but at least I wouldn't be enraged that this value got forced on me by a few holier-than-thou judges.

 

[Gem]

Nucular,

While I agree with you completely that the small majority of Americans identify themselves as Pro-Choice as opposed to Pro-Life, that statistic is, in my opinion, very misleading in an honest discussion about abortion and whether or not it should be legal. Similarly, your blanket claim that more Americans want abortion to be legal than illegal, is an oversimplification of the majority of Americans very complicated feelings on the issue.

When questioned most Pro-Choice Americans do NOT favor abortion on demand for everyone in every circumstance at any time during the pregancy no matter how many times a woman wants one. Many only favor abortion in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother...still more will add that they are willing to accept abortions during the first trimester, but not after that..etc. etc. etc.

To state that more Americans want abortions to be legal than don't is to overlook the vast majority of Americans who want abortions legal but MUCH MORE restricted than they are today. If we put it to a vote abortion would most likely stay legal, yes, but it would not exist in the form it exists in today...perhaps the compromise should start there.