Revolution!!!

[Avatar4321]

I think Jefferson was correct. There is a time and a place to establish new government or separate from old ones. But as he also said, it's not something to do lightly for trivial reasons.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I think Jefferson was correct. There is a time and a place to establish new government or separate from old ones. But as he also said, it's not something to do lightly for trivial reasons.

Just so.

 

[FA_Q2]

"No. Never thought of actual revolution over the current set of circumstances. Why? Because we are always focused on how things are so horrible today that no other time has been so bad. The fact is that this type of thinking is rather bunk. I do believe that we are headed in the complete wrong direction and that many of the problems we face could, indeed bring the country down. I don’t believe that our problems are more insurmountable than the past though. We need change and, quite frankly, change is guaranteed to happen. The question is how much pain it is going to be to get there."

An enlightened view.

Is there no room to argue that the current and projected deficits with a Congress and President who seem determined to increase them in at least the short term, a down graded credit rating, and a national debt that the current generation cannot imagine paying down coupled with a pro-world-government and an anti-American business attitude are all causes for serious alarm?

Is there no room to argue that a continued attitude of oh well, things aren't all THAT bad or we've had bad times before or we've seen it all before could generate apathy or inaction that could eventually make it impossible to reverse?

I never said any of that. Things are bad and destined to get a lot worse when those debts actually become untenable to the point that people cannot deny it any longer. What I said was they are not insurmountable problems nore are they large enough to warrant insurrection.

I think the problem lies in the term revolution (and I assume an armed one because a revolution at the ballot box is NOT a revolution – it is working within the system) and those that call for it not recognizing how horrible that is.

War, and make no mistake, that is what we are talking about with armed revolution, is far uglier than anyone even bothers to acknowledge. When things are so terrible, that it is worth burning women in children alive in the middle of the street, THEN AND ONLY THEN, is revolution tenable. Not because that is what you are going to do but because, no matter how careful you are, that IS what is going to happen.

Have we not learned the lesson if Iraq? That war is NOT something to take lightly. That innocents will die in the most horrific ways imaginable. Look at your neighbors, friends, YOUR FAMILY. Are things so bad in this nation that you are willing to sacrifice the lives of many of them in the purist of fixing it? If not, then you have neither the determination nor the willingness for revolt and embarking on it is foolishly risking lives.


In short, we are not so far gone that lives need be wasted. There is a point when such things are proper and necessary but we are NOT EVEN CLOSE. Things must be extremely far gone for me to justify the horrific actions required in armed conflict.

 

[dblack]

War, and make no mistake, that is what we are talking about with armed revolution, is far uglier than anyone even bothers to acknowledge. When things are so terrible, that it is worth burning women in children alive in the middle of the street, THEN AND ONLY THEN, is revolution tenable. Not because that is what you are going to do but because, no matter how careful you are, that IS what is going to happen.

Yes. Exactly. And someday it may be worth all that. But I sure as hell hope not.

 

[007]

When Europe's finances implode, and I think it's imminent, with their economy having such an effect on our's, and our's so far in the toilet, our economy will crash as well, which will crash China's, and so on it will go, and at that point anarchy will ensue in America. It won't be a Civil or Revolutionary war, but it will pit groups of people against one another, possibly states. It could turn into more than just anarchy after the fighting evolves, and the political as well as social and financial structure of America could look dramatically different than it does. Well, it would have to, or we'd never get anything fixed. The status quo and apathy of Americans is in large part why we're in the fix we're in. We have allowed our government to grow exponentially and unchecked, and now it's an out of control behemoth. Another Revolutionary war would do this country a lot of good as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Foxfyre]

I am not seeing so drastic a concept as some of the rest of you even though we continue to have certain segments of society who create mob violence presumably not to effect change but mostly just to raise hell. I am thinking of the Watts riots of the 60's, the anti-Vietnam riots of the late 60's and 70's, the LA Riots of the 90's, and even our more recent OWS demonstrations. The large majority of people participating in such events usually don't even know why they are destroying property, setting fires, looting, and terrorizing people.

So could it happen if the government was reformed and began scaling back the privileges and freebies now? Almost without question. But as the majority of Americans held the rioters in disgust and contempt, I think the case would be the same now. I don't see that the huge majority of Americans have any appetite whatsoever for any part of civil war on any scale and will promote a bloodless and non violent revolution.

But I hope America is ready to push for that revolution. For I think if we do not, there soon won't be enough of us with the will and understanding to do it. And when that happens, American exceptionalism will be lost along with a large chunk of our guaranteed freedoms and opportunity.

 

[copsnrobbers]

We are being failed purposely...... The New World bank will come to the rescue and make us an offer our politicians can't refuse..
Once again the unintended consequences will become obvious. It's not going to be pretty.

 

[saveliberty]

I think once the real damage our debt and deficit is realized by the youth who will be burdened with it, we have a great deal of potential for an uprising.

 

[Swagger]

When Europe's finances implode, and I think it's imminent, with their economy having such an effect on our's, and our's so far in the toilet, our economy will crash as well, which will crash China's, and so on it will go, and at that point anarchy will ensue in America. It won't be a Civil or Revolutionary war, but it will pit groups of people against one another, possibly states. It could turn into more than just anarchy after the fighting evolves, and the political as well as social and financial structure of America could look dramatically different than it does. Well, it would have to, or we'd never get anything fixed. The status quo and apathy of Americans is in large part why we're in the fix we're in. We have allowed our government to grow exponentially and unchecked, and now it's an out of control behemoth. Another Revolutionary war would do this country a lot of good as far as I'm concerned.

I agree with pretty much all of what you've posted. I think that in the next few years we're going to see blood spilled on the streets of southern Europe as dwindling and underpaid government forces struggle to maintain martial law as the Eurozone tanks completely and the people of those countries are forced to look after themselves, which will incurr violence, because southern Europe has been so dependent on the EU teet for so long. In short, they'll resort to drastic measures in the absence of any experience in looking after themselves. How far this will spread to western Europe and America is debateable, but I foresee street-level violence at the very least.

Coincidentally, the online sale of crossbows in the UK have rocketed over the last year. But I don't think people are all that concerned with taking up crossbow archery all of a sudden, if you know what I mean.

 

[candycorn]

Revolution could do the job but it isn't necessary. What is necessary is an understanding that we need to make fundamental changes to our system of government at pre-selected intervals to avoid revolution and preserve the nation for the future.

It's silly to live under a document written 225 years ago. Point blank. Once we understand that it is an imperfect document written by imprefect men, we can agree it needs to be further perfected.

The extermes of armed revolt are not needed, not necessary, and are the worst possible actions one can take under the guise of "preserving" anything.

 

[Foxfyre]

Revolution could do the job but it isn't necessary. What is necessary is an understanding that we need to make fundamental changes to our system of government at pre-selected intervals to avoid revolution and preserve the nation for the future.

It's silly to live under a document written 225 years ago. Point blank. Once we understand that it is an imperfect document written by imprefect men, we can agree it needs to be further perfected.

The extermes of armed revolt are not needed, not necessary, and are the worst possible actions one can take under the guise of "preserving" anything.

The principles the Founders incorporated into the Constitution are as sound and appropriate and pertinent for our time as they were for their time. The Constitution is not the problem, but rather the corruption of Constitutional intent with a resulting broken system.

The companion thread "A New Emancipation Proclamation" (also in the CDZ) offers a solution to fix the system.

All we need is sufficient agreement and the will and the courage to do it.

 

[Swagger]

Revolution could do the job but it isn't necessary. What is necessary is an understanding that we need to make fundamental changes to our system of government at pre-selected intervals to avoid revolution and preserve the nation for the future.

It's silly to live under a document written 225 years ago. Point blank. Once we understand that it is an imperfect document written by imprefect men, we can agree it needs to be further perfected.

The extermes of armed revolt are not needed, not necessary, and are the worst possible actions one can take under the guise of "preserving" anything.

I disagree. They provide a proven deterrent against tyrannical regimes, especially when you consider that governments hold the keys to the nation's disproportionately advanced armoury.

 

[Katzndogz]

It was Ben Franklin that was correct when he said that the Constitution would not last forever but only until the people become so corrupt that they vote themselves a despotic government.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I am not seeing so drastic a concept as some of the rest of you even though we continue to have certain segments of society who create mob violence presumably not to effect change but mostly just to raise hell. I am thinking of the Watts riots of the 60's, the anti-Vietnam riots of the late 60's and 70's, the LA Riots of the 90's, and even our more recent OWS demonstrations. The large majority of people participating in such events usually don't even know why they are destroying property, setting fires, looting, and terrorizing people.

So could it happen if the government was reformed and began scaling back the privileges and freebies now? Almost without question. But as the majority of Americans held the rioters in disgust and contempt, I think the case would be the same now. I don't see that the huge majority of Americans have any appetite whatsoever for any part of civil war on any scale and will promote a bloodless and non violent revolution.

But I hope America is ready to push for that revolution. For I think if we do not, there soon won't be enough of us with the will and understanding to do it. And when that happens, American exceptionalism will be lost along with a large chunk of our guaranteed freedoms and opportunity.

Considering the way the highest leaders have been promoting racial division and vilifying the "rich", the stage is being set for an upcoming revolt. It is inevitable that social welfare programs will be scaled back. The majority of the public is demanding it be done. (I doubt we'll see corporate welfare decreased because that is a primary means of laundering public money and routing it into political campaigns.) The beneficiaries of government largess have been repeatedly told that their problems lie with the more well-off citizens, who have gleaned their "wealth" (really, $250,000 is not wealthy) by taking it from those who have so little. The ranks of the population will be thinned out by a government fomented revolt wherein the "poor" will attack and destroy the "rich". That revolt will be cited as the reason for government to step in and establish martial law. By using martial law statutes, the military will most likely be more than willing to obey orders to suppress the violence. If our own military will not cooperate, there are already UN troops stationed here in the States, with more ready to deploy here, if needed.
Buckle up, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

 

[Foxfyre]

It was Ben Franklin that was correct when he said that the Constitution would not last forever but only until the people become so corrupt that they vote themselves a despotic government.

He more specifically said that the Republic would be doomed once they figured out how to vote themselves money from the public treasury.

The Emancipation Proclamation thread proposes a means to free us from the increasingly despotic government we have been creating for some time now and restore the oroginal intent of the Constitution.

Since I think the problem is not the people we elect, but rather the system that has gradually been put into place, we have to fix the system--restore the original system. And that will run the self serving career politicans off and leave room for honorable public servants to again occupy the halls of Congress and the White House.

 

[copsnrobbers]

I think once the real damage our debt and deficit is realized by the youth who will be burdened with it, we have a great deal of potential for an uprising.

Its coming sooner than you may think.. Its starting right now in Chicago. Here comes the Obama Civil army. Brainwashed Black kids.. yes, Muslim beliefs and murderous appetites.
We'll be fighting them soon. Chicago is the test ground.. They're hiding behind non other than Farrakhan. Hired by Raum Emanual.. Who goes from the White House to be corruptly voted in as Mayor of the most Corrupt and Dangerous City in America.. Obama's Chief of Staff that's who.

Remember this post......

 

[copsnrobbers]

REVOLUTION!!!! ​

(Disclaimer: This should not now or ever be construed that I am advocating an overthrow of our government. I would just as soon not have black helicopters hovering over the house and I don't want to wind up on the no fly list.)

But for speculation and discussion only:

From time to time in these political conversations, we have one or more members who think we are so completely screwed in this country, the only way out is to scrap the government we have, dust off the Constitution, and start over as it was in the beginning. (Hmmm, that sounds almost Biblical doesn't it?)

Thomas Jefferson is quoted as noting the possibility that such would be necessary from time to time, and the concept is also included in the opening remarks of The Declaration of Independence.:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. . . ."​

What do you think. Deep down where you keep your most heartfelt convictions, fears, and longings, do you harbor such thoughts?

I'm Glad you started this thread Foxy... an eye opener for many on the left.

 

[Avatar4321]

It was Ben Franklin that was correct when he said that the Constitution would not last forever but only until the people become so corrupt that they vote themselves a despotic government.

He more specifically said that the Republic would be doomed once they figured out how to vote themselves money from the public treasury.

The Emancipation Proclamation thread proposes a means to free us from the increasingly despotic government we have been creating for some time now and restore the oroginal intent of the Constitution.

Since I think the problem is not the people we elect, but rather the system that has gradually been put into place, we have to fix the system--restore the original system. And that will run the self serving career politicans off and leave room for honorable public servants to again occupy the halls of Congress and the White House.

I disagree that the problem is the people we elect or the system. I think the problem is the people itself. Those other issues are just symptoms of the problem.

 

[catzmeow]

I'm Glad you started this thread Foxy... an eye opener for many on the left.

I'm in the center, and I want the revolutionaries, of both sides, to know that I applaud the army, navy, air force and marines using any means necessary to put down a revolution against this country.

I didn't storm military bases when George Bush started an unconstitutional war in Iraq that has subsequently claimed several thousand American lives and cost us trillions of dollars. I understood that George Bush was elected via a political process and that I was part of that process, and thus, was responsible for him serving in that office. I could have campaigned against him, been more involved in the political process, and made sure that someone else was elected.

Anyone who takes up arms against this country is a traitor who deserves to be shot in the street like a rabid dog.

 

[mal]

REVOLUTION!!!! ​

(Disclaimer: This should not now or ever be construed that I am advocating an overthrow of our government. I would just as soon not have black helicopters hovering over the house and I don't want to wind up on the no fly list.)

But for speculation and discussion only:

From time to time in these political conversations, we have one or more members who think we are so completely screwed in this country, the only way out is to scrap the government we have, dust off the Constitution, and start over as it was in the beginning. (Hmmm, that sounds almost Biblical doesn't it?)

Thomas Jefferson is quoted as noting the possibility that such would be necessary from time to time, and the concept is also included in the opening remarks of The Declaration of Independence.:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. . . ."​

What do you think. Deep down where you keep your most heartfelt convictions, fears, and longings, do you harbor such thoughts?

I am pretty Certain some things were done during and after the Civil War that made this no longer a... Legal and or Constitutional Option for the "the People".



peace...