Reconciliation...

[Dr.House]

I hope they do it. I'm sick of watching the Dems let the Reps push them around.

Me too... It'll be fun watching the Democratics go down in flames for years to come....

 

[WillowTree]

well, it has occurred to me if we are gonna pass laws n rules n stuff with a simple majority we donna need no damn congress,, all we needs is some referendums.. huh??

 

[Liability]

I hope they do it. I'm sick of watching the Dems let the Reps push them around.

I, by contrast, have quite enjoyed watching the Dims prove themselves unable to coordinate so much as a fart. With a significant majority of votes in the House -- and until recently -- a filibuster-proof super-majority in the Senate, these assclowns haven't been able to actually DO a damn thing. I cannot begin to express how grateful I am that they can't even find their own asses with both hands.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with being "pushed around" by the Republicans. It has everything to do with the fact that they are fuck-ups. And I AM very grateful for that.

 

[goldcatt]

So let me get this straight, since I only skimmed over part of the thread.

The Dems now want to use a (perfectly legal but distasteful to many) procedural process to push through a bill nobody likes as-is but the majority would probably support if it were cleaned up. Assuming one of the bought and paid for pols on either side of the political pig trough had the balls to do it, which isn't likely.

Both the Dems and the Reps are wasting the time we pay them to spend governing being hypocritical whiners about who said and did what and when and which is worse when they're both being, well, equally hypocritical whiners on our dime.

The usual suspects are buying into Hackery Theater 2010 hook, line and sinker and the usual name calling, straw man building and accusations of everything from garden variety douchebaggery to treason are flying around.

Am I close?

God Bless America! Not like we need it or anything.

 

[hjmick]

YouTube - Obama and Dems: Using a 51 majority is Arrogant, Power Grab, Against the Founders Intent

Yes, Obama was talking about the nuclear option, not reconciliation...no matter how much California Girl spins and calls people traitors.

The "nuclear option" or reconciliation, neither do I find to be palatable when discussing the passage of a bill such as this.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

So let me get this straight, since I only skimmed over part of the thread.

The Dems now want to use a (perfectly legal but distasteful to many) procedural process to push through a bill nobody likes as-is but the majority would probably support if it were cleaned up. Assuming one of the bought and paid for pols on either side of the political pig trough had the balls to do it, which isn't likely.

Both the Dems and the Reps are wasting the time we pay them to spend governing being hypocritical whiners about who said and did what and when and which is worse when they're both being, well, equally hypocritical whiners on our dime.

The usual suspects are buying into Hackery Theater 2010 hook, line and sinker and the usual name calling, straw man building and accusations of everything from garden variety douchebaggery to treason are flying around.

Am I close?

God Bless America! Not like we need it or anything.

I don't think it would pass muster with the folks no matter how they scrubbed it. People have too many contradictory opinions.

But that is about it.

 

[Liability]

I'm not too worried about your opposition to the paragraph you pasted without first learning if you have an understanding of WHY they propose to do things that way, otherwise, why conversate unless it's just a "reject just cuz!'

I also think that the CBO knows their job better than a Citizen lacking said credentials to be considered for their position, which is 99% of the Citizens talking about it.

And I'm not worried about your disagreement with my opposition to that gimmick, since you are unable to dispute what I correctly noted about the fucking shell game. This may explain why you haven't even attempted it.

You can pretend all you want, but an obvious con-game is behind that budget gimmick.

OK, grain of salt and all that.

You are actually babbling now. I had harbored some hopes that maybe you were serious.

I guess that was a silly thing to expect.

 

[EriktheRed]

Do it! Go Go Go! (Come on, folks, let's cheer this across the finish line.) Go Go Go HeathCare 2010 (And the Democrats chances to hold maybe 10 seats in the Congress after November elections.)

Clueless, as usual.

 

[EriktheRed]

Partisan, but I like what he says:

In early January, when health care reform looked like a sure thing, one of the major topics of conversation in Republican circles was focused on repealing the package in 2011. The talk quickly evaporated after Massachusetts' special election, when it appeared reform was on the brink of collapse.

I guess reform's odds are getting better -- Republicans are back to talking about repeal again.

Republicans will campaign on repealing Democrats' healthcare bill this year, a member of the Senate GOP leadership said Monday.

Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), the third-ranking Senate Republican and chairman of the Senate Republican Conference, said his party would head into this year's midterm elections with a pledge to repeal the healthcare bill before Congress.

"I think that's exactly right," Alexander said during an interview on Fox News when asked if Republicans would spend all of 2010 on a campaign to repeal healthcare reform.

This will, no doubt, be well received among far-right activists. In January, for example, the right-wing Club for Growth launched a "Repeal It!" campaign, which included urging Republican congressional candidates to sign a pledge vowing to "sponsor and support" legislation to repeal the reform package.

As a practical matter, this is all pretty silly. Unless Republicans suddenly get supermajorities in both chambers and convince President Obama and Vice President Biden to step down, making room for President Boehner, repeal is impossible.

But let's put that aside. The assumption that repeal is a political winner for the GOP is faulty, too.

Remember, while several provisions of the health care reform initiative wouldn't kick in until 2014, some really popular measures would kick in almost immediately. Consumers would have all kinds of new protections, including a ban on discrimination based on pre-existing conditions, the elimination of rescissions, a ban on annual or lifetime caps, etc.

Indeed, I've long believed that an aggressive repeal push from Republican activists and the Tea Party crowd is something Dems should welcome, not fear. It's a compelling pitch to voters: "Know those new protections that just became law? Republicans want to take them away."

Some GOP candidates are willing to back a partial repeal, in part because they know parts of the package are popular, and in part because they realize that total repeal is practically impossible. But for the right-wing base, partial isn't good enough. As Josh Marshall noted recently, "After all, if it's really the end of the universe, America and Apple Pie, as Republicans have been suggesting, it's hard to say you just want to tinker at the margins."

It puts Republican candidates in a box. Democrats are going to ask, "Are you really going to fight to repeal protections for Americans with pre-existing conditions?" If Republicans say "no," they alienate the GOP activists who will settle for nothing but a full repeal. If Republicans say "yes," they alienate the mainstream electorate.

Bring on the Repeal Fight

 

[AvgGuyIA]

That remains to be seen (if ever).

I doubt that. Most Americans don't know the details of the vast majority of legislation passed in their name.

But that's not the point.

The point is more in the nature of a hypothetical.

WHO the fuck would actually support this imbecility if they fully knew even a quarter of the shit it is attempting to do?

I mean, start with the money shell-game aspect. Who do YOU think supports the following proposition: "Let me tax you for 10 years, but you won't get anything back out of the program you are paying for until four years from now. That sound good? You're okay with that, right?"

It's not that simple. You need to go past that ^ paragraph further, and discover WHY that is. Do you know what the theopry behind it is? Discuss.

Yeah...so the Democrats can say they gave you Health Care for less than $1 Trillion over 10 years. We're not the idiots so-called Progressives make us out to be.

 

[California Girl]

I don't like all of the Principles.
I'm not leaving.
"Then shut the fuck up?!?!"
No.
K, where we at?

I never tell anyone to shut the fuck up. I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it. Cuz that's what those principles give us all..... freedom of speech. No one has the right to silence another. See how those work.

 

[Dr.House]

Do it! Go Go Go! (Come on, folks, let's cheer this across the finish line.) Go Go Go HeathCare 2010 (And the Democrats chances to hold maybe 10 seats in the Congress after November elections.)

Clueless, as usual.

Bullshit, Krunchy...

Although he exaggerates, the Democratics will not gain popularity with anyone other than their already 100% committed hack base (like you, hack)..

Ponder that, KluelessKrunchyFrog....

 

[G.T.]

You are actually babbling now. I had harbored some hopes that maybe you were serious.

I guess that was a silly thing to expect.

Babbling. Ok, if accused of it I may as well continue to practice it, no biggy to me:

Here goes:

You're a Conservative.

Democrats have Legislation.

You oppose it. Shocking! But..................................not really. I expect this for the rest of my life out of you and other Conservatives, and will expect the same from Liberals.

I take that with a grain of salt, and should have never tried to extrapolate more from your comments. I apologize for wasting your time, but I don't intent to carry a conversation predicated on pre-affirmed biases and especially since you won't even give the benefit of the doubt that they "actually" had an intent to fix something.

The paragraph you pulled, to criticize, has reasons behind it and whether you "disagree" that the ends will reach said goals, or even disagree with the tact alone which you said you do................it is still pointless to attempt conversation when you won't even provide that you understand the intent but instead resport to smug partisan platitudes.

^basically, that's all babbling. So?

 

[G.T.]

I don't like all of the Principles.
I'm not leaving.
"Then shut the fuck up?!?!"
No.
K, where we at?

I never tell anyone to shut the fuck up. I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it. Cuz that's what those principles give us all..... freedom of speech. No one has the right to silence another. See how those work.

Yea we should also relocate if we're not in lock step with the founding principles. No spanks

 

[Dr.House]

I don't like all of the Principles.
I'm not leaving.
"Then shut the fuck up?!?!"
No.
K, where we at?

I never tell anyone to shut the fuck up. I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it. Cuz that's what those principles give us all..... freedom of speech. No one has the right to silence another. See how those work.

Yea we should also relocate if we're not in lock step with the founding principles. No spanks

No, you should go through the amendment process for things which you have constitutional issues with... Get enough people to agree and you're golden...

The framers set up a great process...

 

[saveliberty]

Simply a misuse of the reconciliation process. For the most part it is used to take two relatively similiar bills and save time by making slight modifications to one bill. This hardly qualifies as a small modification. Further, Pelosi acts like she is doing this for our benefit.

Personally, I don't think they can muster enough votes in the House. Our asshole President just spent a day in political theater (he said it wasn't, liar), so he could claim reconciliation was the only way to do this. The public will see it for what it is, a power play with us as the losers.

P.S. I'm back from vacation. so I'm extra pissed at the liberals.

 

[G.T.]

No, you should go through the amendment process for things which you have constitutional issues with... Get enough people to agree and you're golden...

The framers set up a great process...

I've got no interest in partaking in this game outside of casual internet conversations and following current events.

I'm focused on gettin' money, being a good guy and developing relationships and family. In the reverse order.

 

[EriktheRed]

Do it! Go Go Go! (Come on, folks, let's cheer this across the finish line.) Go Go Go HeathCare 2010 (And the Democrats chances to hold maybe 10 seats in the Congress after November elections.)

Clueless, as usual.

Bullshit, Krunchy...

Although he exaggerates, the Democratics will not gain popularity with anyone other than their already 100% committed hack base (like you, hack)..

Ponder that, KluelessKrunchyFrog....

I've pondered it a lot, Boones Farm. I see the possibity of this legislation as not being near as unpopular with the public as Repubs want to make it out to be and whatever damage they might take from it in November not being near as much as if it failed entirely.

I also see a lot of fear on the part of the minority of this finally getting passed and signed, which further indicates that getting this thing through isn't the political loser for the Dems it's being made out to be not just by the GOP, but in our so-called Liberal Media™, too.


I do indeed have a clue, and I like what it's telling me.

 

[MajikMyst]

Somebody remind me who it was that, in '06, told us all that reconciliation was against the very ideals of the Founders?

What is good for the goose is good for the gander...

The democrats did.. But it didn't stop the repukes from using it anyways..

So try not to be a hypocrit!!

Repukes have no right to demand a super majority on every bill.. That is against the very ideals of the founders.. How bout we talk about how repukes are using the Fillibuster for everything?? Is that against the very ideals of the Founders??

Again CAgirl.. My compliments on your thoughtlessly short post..

You should have known everything I stated in my post.. Please explain to everyone why you didn't?

 

[saveliberty]

Name one major social program that was passed by reconciliation.

Change like this should have the support of the public and both houses.