Reconciliation...

[Meister]

From the NYTimes:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi urged her colleagues to back a major overhaul of U.S. health care even if it threatens their political careers, a call to arms that underscores the issue's massive role in this election year.
Lawmakers sometimes must enact policies that, even if unpopular at the moment, will help the public, Pelosi said in an interview being broadcast Sunday the ABC News program ''This Week.''

''We're not here just to self-perpetuate our service in Congress,'' she said. ''We're here to do the job for the American people.''


So you think the dems will sit around and drink a few bottles of some hot sake before they cast their vote?
I have a feeling they won't

 

[G.T.]

And, for the record, I personally believe that anyone who would state in public that something is against the intent and principles of the Founders of our nation and then use that process to push through their own agenda is guilty of treason against 'We, the People'. Maybe not technically, according to the law, but the law and what is moral are two different things.

Them Stating it in Public doesn't make it a true statement, for one..........and two: it seems a rather big problem if it is against the Founders' intent since both parties now agree with it. Ewwey.

 

[G.T.]

If the American people DID grasp the nuances and the details of that garbage, I further suggest that the opposition would be even deeper and broader.

That remains to be seen (if ever).

 

[G.T.]

I think it speaks volumes that you think it's ok for us to have corrupt politicians.... as long as they're doing what you want, that's fine. Makes my skin crawl that people like you think that's acceptable.

My issue is with Obama himself.... he said in '06 it was against the intent of the Founders and I take that more seriously than I do politicians just whining about tactics. He said it was against the very principles on which our nation was founded and now that it suits his agenda, he's changed his stance.

The man is a fucking traitor to the country. And so is anyone who agrees with him.

Hmm, well I don't find it acceptable but then again, I never said I did but you just want to think that because I don't say things you like.

If he's a traitor, so is anyone who's ever played a part in using Reconciliation IMO. But sure, you can have it both ways and ONLY he is.

 

[California Girl]

And, for the record, I personally believe that anyone who would state in public that something is against the intent and principles of the Founders of our nation and then use that process to push through their own agenda is guilty of treason against 'We, the People'. Maybe not technically, according to the law, but the law and what is moral are two different things.

Them Stating it in Public doesn't make it a true statement, for one..........and two: it seems a rather big problem if it is against the Founders' intent since both parties now agree with it. Ewwey.

My problem is with anyone who said it was against the intent of the Founders and now finds it acceptable. That is your POTUS. He said it. That you defend something so completely indefensible is pathetic. You don't give a shit about the morality of it, just as long as you guys get your way.

 

[Meister]

Reconciliation, is to be used with budgetary items, right?
Is the issue with healthcare budgetary?

This will be going to the Supreme Court, I'm willing to bet.....if it even gets passed

 

[California Girl]

I think it speaks volumes that you think it's ok for us to have corrupt politicians.... as long as they're doing what you want, that's fine. Makes my skin crawl that people like you think that's acceptable.

My issue is with Obama himself.... he said in '06 it was against the intent of the Founders and I take that more seriously than I do politicians just whining about tactics. He said it was against the very principles on which our nation was founded and now that it suits his agenda, he's changed his stance.

The man is a fucking traitor to the country. And so is anyone who agrees with him.

Hmm, well I don't find it acceptable but then again, I never said I did but you just want to think that because I don't say things you like.

If he's a traitor, so is anyone who's ever played a part in using Reconciliation IMO. But sure, you can have it both ways and ONLY he is.

Certainly, any politician who spoke out by invoking the Founders against reconciliation and now uses reconciliation is a traitor. My issue is with his words.... I don't know of another politician who invoked the founders to speak out against reconciliation but if they did, and then voted for it, then yea, they too are traitors.

 

[G.T.]

And, for the record, I personally believe that anyone who would state in public that something is against the intent and principles of the Founders of our nation and then use that process to push through their own agenda is guilty of treason against 'We, the People'. Maybe not technically, according to the law, but the law and what is moral are two different things.

Them Stating it in Public doesn't make it a true statement, for one..........and two: it seems a rather big problem if it is against the Founders' intent since both parties now agree with it. Ewwey.

My problem is with anyone who said it was against the intent of the Founders and now finds it acceptable. That is your POTUS. He said it. That you defend something so completely indefensible is pathetic. You don't give a shit about the morality of it, just as long as you guys get your way.

I don't see me defending it but again, clamor on. You keep extrapolating things I'm not even saying. I'm simply disagreeing with you on another level, is all.

Whether he said it was against their intent or not is not the issue. The issue is: if he was RIGHT or not. If he was RIGHT, ALL are Guilty who have used it.

If his statement was wrong, he's just a hypocrit like all other politicians, but a traitor can only be a traitor if he does something traitorous. If it's not factually against their intent, thus not a traitorous ACT, he hasn't done that. If it is, MANY are guilty.

 

[California Girl]

Reconciliation, is to be used with budgetary items, right?
Is the issue with healthcare budgetary?

This will be going to the Supreme Court, I'm willing to bet.....if it even gets passed

Yep. It is to be used with budgetary shit. And no, healthcare is not budgetary. I hope it does go the the SC.... preferably with Justices who actually apply the Constitution and not their own partisan politics.

 

[California Girl]

Them Stating it in Public doesn't make it a true statement, for one..........and two: it seems a rather big problem if it is against the Founders' intent since both parties now agree with it. Ewwey.

My problem is with anyone who said it was against the intent of the Founders and now finds it acceptable. That is your POTUS. He said it. That you defend something so completely indefensible is pathetic. You don't give a shit about the morality of it, just as long as you guys get your way.

I don't see me defending it but again, clamor on. You keep extrapolating things I'm not even saying. I'm simply disagreeing with you on another level, is all.

Whether he said it was against their intent or not is not the issue. The issue is: if he was RIGHT or not. If he was RIGHT, ALL are Guilty who have used it.

If his statement was wrong, he's just a hypocrit like all other politicians, but a traitor can only be a traitor if he does something traitorous. If it's not factually against their intent, he hasn't done that. If it is, MANY are guilty.

Nope, it doesn't matter whether he was right or wrong about the actual intent. What matters is that he spoke out publicly making the case that it was against the principles of the founders. If he didn't believe it, he should not have said it.

Fact. He said it. Your boy is a traitor.

 

[Liability]

If the American people DID grasp the nuances and the details of that garbage, I further suggest that the opposition would be even deeper and broader.

That remains to be seen (if ever).

I doubt that. Most Americans don't know the details of the vast majority of legislation passed in their name.

But that's not the point.

The point is more in the nature of a hypothetical.

WHO the fuck would actually support this imbecility if they fully knew even a quarter of the shit it is attempting to do?

I mean, start with the money shell-game aspect. Who do YOU think supports the following proposition: "Let me tax you for 10 years, but you won't get anything back out of the program you are paying for until four years from now. That sound good? You're okay with that, right?"

 

[Truthmatters]

Why dont you guys go get the actual quote and see what he really meant.

No , not the clipped version the Rs are passing arround but the whole fucking thing?

 

[G.T.]

My problem is with anyone who said it was against the intent of the Founders and now finds it acceptable. That is your POTUS. He said it. That you defend something so completely indefensible is pathetic. You don't give a shit about the morality of it, just as long as you guys get your way.

I don't see me defending it but again, clamor on. You keep extrapolating things I'm not even saying. I'm simply disagreeing with you on another level, is all.

Whether he said it was against their intent or not is not the issue. The issue is: if he was RIGHT or not. If he was RIGHT, ALL are Guilty who have used it.

If his statement was wrong, he's just a hypocrit like all other politicians, but a traitor can only be a traitor if he does something traitorous. If it's not factually against their intent, he hasn't done that. If it is, MANY are guilty.

Nope, it doesn't matter whether he was right or wrong about the actual intent. What matters is that he spoke out publicly making the case that it was against the principles of the founders. If he didn't believe it, he should not have said it.

Fact. He said it. Your boy is a traitor.

You're pretty devoid of reality then, I guess. I can do something all day that I "believe" is traitorous, but if it actually isn't, I'm not quite guilty of treason there, genius. Reality matters.

 

[G.T.]

If the American people DID grasp the nuances and the details of that garbage, I further suggest that the opposition would be even deeper and broader.

That remains to be seen (if ever).

I doubt that. Most Americans don't know the details of the vast majority of legislation passed in their name.

But that's not the point.

The point is more in the nature of a hypothetical.

WHO the fuck would actually support this imbecility if they fully knew even a quarter of the shit it is attempting to do?

I mean, start with the money shell-game aspect. Who do YOU think supports the following proposition: "Let me tax you for 10 years, but you won't get anything back out of the program you are paying for until four years from now. That sound good? You're okay with that, right?"

It's not that simple. You need to go past that ^ paragraph further, and discover WHY that is. Do you know what the theopry behind it is? Discuss.

 

[Meister]

What I do think that resognates with most Americans is the fact that they hear both parties say this IS a bad bill but it's better than nothing, and can be worked on.
This isn't very comforting to the Vast Majority of Americans.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Just do it!
The Republican Party's leadership has shown complete disdain for the will of the people for change, and continues to thwart efforts by the Democrats in Congress to provide universal healthcare to all Americans.
Hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent to wage war on terror, a freaking noun, without a peep from the chicken hawks as to its cost in blood and treasure.
Yet today the same fiscal neophytes on the right claim Obama&Co are breaking the bank by working towards the reform of how we pay for healhcare.
Worse, the Palin/Gingrich fringe run around doing the Henny Penny Polka, stirring up anger with divisive rhetoric and laying the blame on Democrats who were elected to fix the myriad of problems our nation faces today.

Yeah, they are such fucking hypocrites. spending billions to kill and destroy and send money overseas is perfectly fine and acceptable. Spending money to help americans is horrible.

Scum some of these people are, absolute ideology over reality scumbags

 

[California Girl]

Just do it!
The Republican Party's leadership has shown complete disdain for the will of the people for change, and continues to thwart efforts by the Democrats in Congress to provide universal healthcare to all Americans.
Hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent to wage war on terror, a freaking noun, without a peep from the chicken hawks as to its cost in blood and treasure.
Yet today the same fiscal neophytes on the right claim Obama&Co are breaking the bank by working towards the reform of how we pay for healhcare.
Worse, the Palin/Gingrich fringe run around doing the Henny Penny Polka, stirring up anger with divisive rhetoric and laying the blame on Democrats who were elected to fix the myriad of problems our nation faces today.

Yeah, they are such fucking hypocrites. spending billions to kill and destroy and send money overseas is perfectly fine and acceptable. Spending money to help americans is horrible.

Scum some of these people are, absolute ideology over reality scumbags

Yep, we're the scum that want to run the country according to the principles on which it was founded. We bad.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Just do it!
The Republican Party's leadership has shown complete disdain for the will of the people for change, and continues to thwart efforts by the Democrats in Congress to provide universal healthcare to all Americans.
Hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent to wage war on terror, a freaking noun, without a peep from the chicken hawks as to its cost in blood and treasure.
Yet today the same fiscal neophytes on the right claim Obama&Co are breaking the bank by working towards the reform of how we pay for healhcare.
Worse, the Palin/Gingrich fringe run around doing the Henny Penny Polka, stirring up anger with divisive rhetoric and laying the blame on Democrats who were elected to fix the myriad of problems our nation faces today.

Yeah, they are such fucking hypocrites. spending billions to kill and destroy and send money overseas is perfectly fine and acceptable. Spending money to help americans is horrible.

Scum some of these people are, absolute ideology over reality scumbags

Yep, we're the scum that want to run the country according to the principles on which it was founded. We bad.

Bwahhaahhaaa!! Yes, the principles of slavery, women and black peopel not having a vote, women not being able to work and had to stay and home and be subservient to theri man. Yes, wonderful principles we used to have in this country.

 

[masquerade]

From the NYTimes:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi urged her colleagues to back a major overhaul of U.S. health care even if it threatens their political careers, a call to arms that underscores the issue's massive role in this election year.
Lawmakers sometimes must enact policies that, even if unpopular at the moment, will help the public, Pelosi said in an interview being broadcast Sunday the ABC News program ''This Week.''

''We're not here just to self-perpetuate our service in Congress,'' she said. ''We're here to do the job for the American people.''


So you think the dems will sit around and drink a few bottles of some hot sake before they cast their vote?
I have a feeling they won't

Again, here is an example where the liberal government thinks they know what's best for us. Like we're not smart enough to make decisions for ourselves.

She says that she and the rest of Congress are there to do the job for the American people. Really? Even if 80+% of the American people are happy with their current healthcare. Sure, this may have something to do with helping the downtrodden, but this has a lot to do with power!

He is the first black President. In his mind, he will be the one to finally get healthcare reform passed. Doesn't matter to him how, just that it gets done.

I don't believe Piglosi for a second that hundreds of thousands of jobs will be created immediately, or that any of these healthcare bills on the table will cut costs and reduce the deficit.

 

[California Girl]

I don't see me defending it but again, clamor on. You keep extrapolating things I'm not even saying. I'm simply disagreeing with you on another level, is all.

Whether he said it was against their intent or not is not the issue. The issue is: if he was RIGHT or not. If he was RIGHT, ALL are Guilty who have used it.

If his statement was wrong, he's just a hypocrit like all other politicians, but a traitor can only be a traitor if he does something traitorous. If it's not factually against their intent, he hasn't done that. If it is, MANY are guilty.

Nope, it doesn't matter whether he was right or wrong about the actual intent. What matters is that he spoke out publicly making the case that it was against the principles of the founders. If he didn't believe it, he should not have said it.

Fact. He said it. Your boy is a traitor.

You're pretty devoid of reality then, I guess. I can do something all day that I "believe" is traitorous, but if it actually isn't, I'm not quite guilty of treason there, genius. Reality matters.

I have already stated that, legally, he is not guilty. Morally, is a whole different ballgame. But you do need to understand morals to understand it. Since I see no morals from the left, I can understand why you wouldn't understand the concept.