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Oh dear God. This semantics is what bogs down advancement."Because you cannot see perfection in legislation, should we abandon the means we have to stem the tide of gun violence?"No one can see perfection in legislation.
These are both YOU, right? Just checking....
Maybe when you say 'YOU can not see the perfection in legislation' you mean 'Just because there is no perfection in legislation'. Is that it?
We need RPG'S and tanks too. Some IED's would be good. How about full auto belt feds! Damn right~I know that this thread will also be trashed by our faithful mods......but I wanted to point out to those few fellow posters on here who still value reality, ONE major difference between the 2 parties (mindful, however, that many elected democrats are also spineless)
Just ask yourself which party almost unanimously backs:
Guns to be sold to folks on the no-fly list
Guns to be sold to folks with questionable mental capacities
Silencers to attach to guns to be sold, with the lame excuse that silencers "protect children's ear drums.)
The blood of the hundreds of killed Americans by automatic weapons are mostly in republicans' hands.......
I want a bazooka!
No ---- the position is ...Because there is no perfection in legislation, there should be no legislation? Is that your position?Because you cannot see perfection in legislation, should we abandon the means we have to stem the tide of gun violence?
'To STEM': "...to stop something from spreading or increasing, especially something bad."
That is just the point - you have no means to stop the tide of gun violence. NO NEW LEGISLATION WOULD HAVE STOPPED THE VEGAS ATTACK OR FUTURE SUCH ATTACKS.
The reason we can not see the 'perfection in legislation' is because THERE IS NO PERFECTION IN LEGISLATION!
('If you like your plan you can keep your plan'...helloooooooo.)
You casually throw around a word like "insane" ... that is not an all-encompassing label.Your logic seems to say everyone who shoots someone is insane. Is that your position?See? You're not even willing to admit the problem.Because you cannot see perfection in legislation, should we abandon the means we have to stem the tide of gun violence?Sounds wonderful...Then we see the REALTY.Do you see a correlation between the flooding of American streets with the infamous 'Saturday Night Specials' in the 1970s and an increase in gun violence?There is only 1 problem - it is not illegal to own a semi-automatic weapon, and banning them would NOT have prevented the Vegas attack (IMO).
The millionaire murderer could still perpetrate the shooting with other weapons, and he could still have gotten semi-automatic weapons / automatic weapons from criminals who ignore the law.
Laws are not panaceas. Speeders still prowl the roads in spite of speed limit laws. But enforcement of speed limits have proven to reduce highway deaths.
No law will prevent those with means from obtaining illegal weapons. But surely it can be said they will reduce the numbers of gun tragedies.
Nothing is perfect. But seeking the perfect is the enemy of the possible.
The REALITY is that no legislation would have prevented the attack and will not prevent attacks in the future.
And the ones preaching so hard to 'save people' by limiting / stripping away the 2nd Amendment are the same people who illegally armed Mexican Drug Cartels, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, and ISIS.
Perfection is the enemy of the possible.
And George Bush's administration floated the program 'End Around' running guns to Mexico. Don't let cheap political points obscure the debate.
".. gun violence.." Seriously?
Why don't we address the real problem? "... crazy people who want to kill the fuck out of other people .."
Whew!!! I was beginning to think stupid would never arrive.We need RPG'S and tanks too. Some IED's would be good. How about full auto belt feds! Damn right~I know that this thread will also be trashed by our faithful mods......but I wanted to point out to those few fellow posters on here who still value reality, ONE major difference between the 2 parties (mindful, however, that many elected democrats are also spineless)
Just ask yourself which party almost unanimously backs:
Guns to be sold to folks on the no-fly list
Guns to be sold to folks with questionable mental capacities
Silencers to attach to guns to be sold, with the lame excuse that silencers "protect children's ear drums.)
The blood of the hundreds of killed Americans by automatic weapons are mostly in republicans' hands.......
I want a bazooka!
Yes, you never know when you may be cornered in a warehouse by an Elk with a Machine Gun.
Could you lay out what would amount to meaningful and appropriate legislation?No ---- the position is ...Because there is no perfection in legislation, there should be no legislation? Is that your position?Because you cannot see perfection in legislation, should we abandon the means we have to stem the tide of gun violence?
'To STEM': "...to stop something from spreading or increasing, especially something bad."
That is just the point - you have no means to stop the tide of gun violence. NO NEW LEGISLATION WOULD HAVE STOPPED THE VEGAS ATTACK OR FUTURE SUCH ATTACKS.
The reason we can not see the 'perfection in legislation' is because THERE IS NO PERFECTION IN LEGISLATION!
('If you like your plan you can keep your plan'...helloooooooo.
Pass legislation that addresses the PROBLEM, not the symptom.
It is the unwillingness of the left to pass meaningful and appropriate legislation that prevents the solution.
Why was legislation aimed at denying the mentally frazzled access to guns denied even after Sandy Hook? Who would sponsor such legislation today?You casually throw around a word like "insane" ... that is not an all-encompassing label.Your logic seems to say everyone who shoots someone is insane. Is that your position?See? You're not even willing to admit the problem.Because you cannot see perfection in legislation, should we abandon the means we have to stem the tide of gun violence?Sounds wonderful...Then we see the REALTY.Do you see a correlation between the flooding of American streets with the infamous 'Saturday Night Specials' in the 1970s and an increase in gun violence?
Laws are not panaceas. Speeders still prowl the roads in spite of speed limit laws. But enforcement of speed limits have proven to reduce highway deaths.
No law will prevent those with means from obtaining illegal weapons. But surely it can be said they will reduce the numbers of gun tragedies.
Nothing is perfect. But seeking the perfect is the enemy of the possible.
The REALITY is that no legislation would have prevented the attack and will not prevent attacks in the future.
And the ones preaching so hard to 'save people' by limiting / stripping away the 2nd Amendment are the same people who illegally armed Mexican Drug Cartels, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, and ISIS.
Perfection is the enemy of the possible.
And George Bush's administration floated the program 'End Around' running guns to Mexico. Don't let cheap political points obscure the debate.
".. gun violence.." Seriously?
Why don't we address the real problem? "... crazy people who want to kill the fuck out of other people .."
But, in the vernacular of the obviously unschooled .... anybody who chooses to shoot people for no discernible reason is mentally deficient. They need to be identified, treated, and banned from owning guns.
We blame the hammer - not the carpenter - when the house falls down. Is that YOUR logic?
Not one Liberal pushing for new gun legislation has been able to propose 1 piece of legislation that would have prevented the attack or that would prevent such attacks in the future. The 2 best comments from 'the Left' that explain what the Left is doing now are:No ---- the position is ...
Pass legislation that addresses the PROBLEM, not the symptom.
It is the unwillingness of the left to pass meaningful and appropriate legislation that prevents the solution.
Why was legislation aimed at denying the mentally frazzled access to guns denied even after Sandy Hook? Who would sponsor such legislation today?
What a great idea!Why don't libs prove they can handle gun violence in 1 city - like Chicago - before declaring they know what is best and are most capable to take care of the entire country.
The only things more gun legislation would do would be to give liberals / politicians more power, make Americans less safe, strip Americans of Rights, and benefit the ctiminals who already igore existing laws.
Let's make Chicago a testbed for new gun laws. When the killings stop there (and not because they run out of targets), we can implement them everywhere.
Go get 'em, Rahm!!!
Ban them and stop being stupid, dupeOr you can get a bump stock for almost nothing like this guy did...What's the criteria for getting on the no fly list, from what I hear its almost impossible to get off it when a mistake has been made. There is no trialI know that this thread will also be trashed by our faithful mods......but I wanted to point out to those few fellow posters on here who still value reality, ONE major difference between the 2 parties (mindful, however, that many elected democrats are also spineless)
Just ask yourself which party almost unanimously backs:
Guns to be sold to folks on the no-fly list
Guns to be sold to folks with questionable mental capacities
Silencers to attach to guns to be sold, with the lame excuse that silencers "protect children's ear drums.)
The blood of the hundreds of killed Americans by automatic weapons are mostly in republicans' hands.......
Same for mental capacities.
You destroy your entire argument for using a make believe device as a point THERE IS NO SUCH FUCKING THING AS A SILENCER.
How many times has an automatic weapon been used in a mass shooting ? Automatic weapons are not illegal but the process of obtaining one legally is long invasive and expensive.
And if you ban those, they can be made easily at home.
Bans have to be everywhere or else they don't work. DuhWhat a great idea!Why don't libs prove they can handle gun violence in 1 city - like Chicago - before declaring they know what is best and are most capable to take care of the entire country.
The only things more gun legislation would do would be to give liberals / politicians more power, make Americans less safe, strip Americans of Rights, and benefit the ctiminals who already igore existing laws.
Let's make Chicago a testbed for new gun laws. When the killings stop there (and not because they run out of targets), we can implement them everywhere.
Go get 'em, Rahm!!!
Let's make Chicago a testbed for new gun laws. When the killings stop there (and not because they run out of targets), we can implement them everywhere.
Guns were outlawed in Chicago for quite a while. I don't remember when the killings stopped.
Can you help a brother out?
Yup - rest assured when guns are banned EVERYWHERE in this country no criminals anywhere in the US will have one.Bans have to be everywhere or else they don't work. Duh
Fix it, and stop listening to silly horror stories that are everywhere on right wing propaganda.Why was legislation aimed at denying the mentally frazzled access to guns denied even after Sandy Hook? Who would sponsor such legislation today?
Part of the argument, as I understand it, is:
1. WHO gets to define someone as 'mentally unfit to own / purchase weapons?
In Ga, for example, someone can have a vendetta against you for something, call the police, report you for being a pervert or doing something to your small child, never be identified so you can face your accuser, and the police can roll up and seize your child as if you are guilty until proven innocent. (Happened to a military buddy of mine - turned out to be his ex-wife who lost custody of their child).
Some are worried about cases such as this or political partisanship. If it were 'that easy' to report someone and get their guns taken away I would bet you would see a wave of anti-gun people making accusations against gun owners.
2. HOW does that work?
- Guy goes into a gun store, background check is complete, no record of mental illness, and he walks out with a gun....
3. Once someone is labeled 'mentally unfit', how do they come off that 'list' once the issue is resolved or if they have been placed on that list by mistake?
-- This has already been demonstrated as a problem for people on the 'No Fly List' by accident, for example. There are horror stories of people accidentally placed on the govt's list and going through hell / a long time to try to get off of that list.
I am not saying I am defending the right of EVERYONE, especially those 'mentally ill', to own weapons. I am just saying the defining / coming up with that process would be a nightmare, one that would be fought judicially / partisanly tooth and nail perhaps by both sides.
Nobody says anything about banning guns except for right-wing dupes and their silly b******* propaganda machine...Yup - rest assured when guns are banned EVERYWHERE in this country no criminals anywhere in the US will have one.Bans have to be everywhere or else they don't work. Duh
There is one of those quintessential 'specific' proposals being thrown out by Liberals. How do you solve the problem? Just 'FIX IT'. Well that solves that. I am glad you cleared that up for everyone.Fix it
It isn't rocket science, except for you poor dupes. They should have background checks for everyone but family members and ban everything that turns guns into automatic guns.There is one of those quintessential 'specific' proposals being thrown out by Liberals. How do you solve the problem? Just 'FIX IT'. Well that solves that. I am glad you cleared that up for everyone.Fix it
Nobody says anything about banning guns except for right-wing dupes and their silly b******* propaganda machine...Yup - rest assured when guns are banned EVERYWHERE in this country no criminals anywhere in the US will have one.Bans have to be everywhere or else they don't work. Duh
'Dupes'? Hey, Franco - here's a shocker for you - I agree with you and would support that.It isn't rocket science, except for you poor dupes. They should have background checks for everyone but family members and ban everything that turns guns into automatic guns.
At least 80% of the country does it used to be 90%until the GOP propaganda machine got to work still, bring up gun control and half the country freaks out and Congress turns ridiculous... Thanks GOP and NRA...'Dupes'? Hey, Franco - here's a shocker for you - I agree with you and would support that.It isn't rocket science, except for you poor dupes. They should have background checks for everyone but family members and ban everything that turns guns into automatic guns.
