Obama Returns to End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir

[SFC Ollie]

You mean like, last year when Pelosi told us we had to pass it to see what was in it?

"Us"? You're a county-level health official?

US, the people of the United States of America. Why must you be a smart ass? Emphasis on ass.

 

[Greenbeard]

US, the people of the United States of America. Why must you be a smart ass? Emphasis on ass.

Why must you use quotes with no regard for their context or audience?

 

[SFC Ollie]

US, the people of the United States of America. Why must you be a smart ass? Emphasis on ass.

Why must you use quotes with no regard for their context or audience?

How can you defend this statement? Regardless of who she was talking to. It's one of the most stupid things any Speaker has ever said. But go ahead and shove your head in further, I'm sure there's a little room left.

 

[geauxtohell]

Stephanie quit while you are ahead, you have no clue what you are talking about.

First off this programs would be good, especially now that baby boomers are starting to get dementia and alzheimers. These doctors will only be ADVISING on what a patient should do when they are close to death, so maybe they don't waste large amounts of money on treatments that will not help, or could speed up the death process.

While I do agree with the bottom line, I disagree that the government should be involved with it at all. It would be a step towards the ambitions of Karl Marx and the progressive agenda.

I love the "Death with Dignity Law" Oregon has. If I am diagnosed with a terminal illness, and with the agreement of two clinicians, that within six months I, or my beloved aunt, would die, we would have the assistance of our physician, as long as no "help" was involved other than writing a prescription for meds that would help us, at our will, "die with dignity." We would have to be able to hold and to swallow our own pills without assistance from our docs. They cannot, as of this posting, assist in any other way. It is very humane and offers the freedom many people desire. Peaceful and kind and "so long."

I agree with the Death with Dignity act as well and wish more states would adopt it. It's been around for about a decade. Relatively few patient's have used it. However, the ones that did were in obvious pain.

 

[geauxtohell]

Oh by the way, how much of the Bill have your read? I'm guessing not a page of it.

And how many of the committee meetings have you personally witnessed?? I'm guessing two things on this question; none, or you joined with the psychotics.

As for meds, that's an interesting point you brought up. That matter appears to be a psychological projection on your part. I do not take meds. Don't need any. And YOU???

But lets ask you a simple question. The Board members of the "committee" who makes all the decisions for all of us supposed ignoramuses and those perceived to be "full of shit" -- which one, if any, was actually appointed to that committee because of brilliance rather than political affiliations??

And the Chair of that committee is what? She claims to be a worm hunter who also claims SHE did the research on a dire illness associated with worms?? You gotta be kidding me. Show me exactly what she personally DID in that research. What she did was link in with Jimmy Carter and all of a sudden she's an "expert" on Medicare and national health care issues? I don't think so, pal.

If you think for one moment that brilliant researchers are happy about idiots dragging all of us around by the tail with their wild and wooly claims, you are sadly mistaken. A bunch of loosers are on that committee -- people who in no way could get a job in a legit research facility anywhere. So they end up in politics on seemingly impressive committees making decisions that are, in any mans language, grossly harmful to all of society. The very lives of innocent people are on the line, buster, and I don't like that b.s. one bit. Not a smidgen of it.

You keep claiming to have some inside scope about this. You don't. You also claim hospice is some sort of evil phenomenum. It's not. You don't sound like anyone who actually does anything in health care. You sound like some crazy-assed uber-uber-uber pro-life zealot who can't wrap their mind around the fact that other people's decisions about the end of their life are none of your business.

You also claim that organs can be harvested without a person's consent.

That's an illegal act.

You are full of shit.

And by the way, since you obviously aren't up on what's going on, the issue of some Fire Departments being ordered to target Heart Patient transport for the gross and disgusting organ harvesting, to such participating hospitals -- was on the news.

Well that should be easy to prove.

YOU need to do some research, pal.

And you need to stop spouting bullshit and thinking you are going to fool people who know better.

 

[geauxtohell]

Folks, regarding the claim that "a doctor" will be paid for discussing your end of life choices with you, do any of you have a clue how many people call themselves "a doctor"?? You are assuming an M.D. is going to do that (which they already do now) and that this Bill just "pays" the doctor to do that.

Dumbfuck:

While anyone with a doctoral degree can call themselves "doctor", only the only "doctors" with PRACTICE RIGHTS to conduct this are M.D.s or D.O.s.

The County hospital we sent a team into to check out this claim turned up some interesting things. M.D.s were not involved in such little chats. Hospital Chaplains were -- Doctors of Divinity. They also had the forms for the patient to sign giving others the right to make decisions about their medical care.

That should be easy to support.

Nothing in those little chats was noted that in any way made mention of medical murder or harvesting yet it is happening in that hospital.

Everyone needs to make the effort to find out for yourself what the heck is going on in Patient Care RIGHT NOW. Go to your local private hospitals and your local county hospitals and find out, and take someone smart with you who knows mumbo jumbo and can and will ratchet anyone trying to mumbo jumbo you, so you can get to the truth.

I think I see the problem here.........

Your private physicians have way too much to loose by killing off their patients, and those with successful practices don't participate in the Obama programs. But, hospitals are out of their control. And beware of those clinics that "treat the elderly". You might decide to stay away from those places. Choose wisely, and when you make an appointment with a Doctor, and a Physician's Assistant comes in to "treat" you, walk out the door and never go back.

Why? PA's provide care to a lot of people in the country. They also don't claim to be "Doctors". PA's introduce themselves to patient's as such. As do Nurse Practitioners.

One step further, this business of medical murders under so-called hospice care -- it's a sad state of affairs to note that way too many families refuse to care for their loved ones and in fact WANT them knocked off.

Utter bullshit. Patients don't go to hospice unless they are terminal. Do you think they would live but for hospice care?

Your a frigging idiot.

One of the most outrageous things I've seen families do is ask or tell the Patient they want to "go see Jesus". It is no understatement to say Medical Professionals have seen and heard so many idiotic family manipulations and designs to medically knock off their sick loved ones, that it can be determined easily, and early on, who is going to be demanding the medical murder of their loved one.

Family members with ulterior motives have nothing to do with medical care and medical care providers don't get in the middle of the decision making process that families go through. They just do their best to respect everyone's wishes.

You would know that if you were actually in health care.

And it's always a harp about "dignity" or "suffering" or "Jesus" when in the background they are checking out google to see what overdose will work the best, and demanding that the doctor prescribe that dangerous garbage.

LMAO! Yes. Physicians take medical advice from family members. That's exactly how it works.

I've seen and heard family members ask how long a Patient is going to live, and nobody with a brain or ethics can or would answer that question. What such a question is about is, the family member wants out from under that business of caring for a family member -- or wants the will read. What kind of people have we got in this country now? I can tell you exactly. People who have lost their humanity and have no clue what family is about and many if not most are indeed psychotic -- whether you want to believe or hear that, it's a fact. Love is not an option for those people.

All Patients have to be well treated and protected. No if's ands or butts. They must be. It is the duty and responsibility of every American to deliberately choose proper care and see that proper care is carried out. Proper care is not ever defined as medical murder or harvesting the body.

We have a really bad situation in the country right now where significant information has been withheld from the public on these very ugly issues of medical murder, organ harvesting, medical experimentation -- all of it without the knowledge or consent that is normally required, and in fact consent is prohibited in Medicare which gives unbridled liberties for crazies to do as they please to any Medicare patient.

If you are a Medicare patient, and you have a good trusted doctor, stay with that doctor. But also find out, as I have stated previously, if your community Fire Department, and your private and county hospitals are participating in any medical action that is not authorized by you, the Patient -- such as medical murder, harvesting and medical experiments, by any term or action.

This is serious and it's as real as it gets, and it has to stop. If the lines continue to be blurred on murder, it is nothing short of our fault.

You can stop this.

Damn right. Call your state Attorney General. Which is what you should be doing instead of wasting our times with this utter bullshit. If you've got the evidence, contact the authorities.

The activities you are describing are illegal.

 

[Greenbeard]

How can you defend this statement?

She was speaking to operational folks: policy implementers. These are indeed people who will become familiar with the tools made available to them in the ACA primarily through experience, not through the tit-for-tat bullshit that so fascinates most of the posters here. It's only a stupid statement if you misrepresent it, as you do, as some kind of taunt at the electorate instead of a speech to boots-on-the-ground folks represented by NACo. Insofar as there's no dearth of dishonest folks like yourself out there, I'll agree that it was stupid of her to say something whose meaning is so easily distorted.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Hmmm, perhaps the nurse was wrong. Looks like that won't happen until 2013.

The First Stick—
“Excessive Readmissions”
In addition to the financial incentives noted above, Healthcare Reform also contains financial reductions in Medicare payments as disincentives. For example, beginning in fiscal year 2013, if a hospital experiences “excessive readmissions” when compared to “expected” levels of readmissions for certain conditions, the hospital’s Medicare inpatient payments will be reduced. Healthcare Reform identifies three initial conditions to evaluate for “excessive readmissions”: (1) heart attack; (2) heart failure; and (3) pneumonia. The reduction in Medicare payments would be the larger of a floor adjustment factor established under the Healthcare Reform laws2 and the “excess readmissions ratio.”3 Beginning with fiscal year 2015, HHS is instructed to expand the list of applicable conditions beyond the three noted above to include the conditions identified by the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission in its report to Congress in June of 2007 and also include “other conditions and procedures as determined appropriate by [HHS].” HHS is also instructed to make all of the readmission rate information available to the public. Hospitals will be provided with the opportunity to review and comment on their hospital-specific data prior to this information being made public.

http://www.wahcnews.com/newsletters/whn-gsb0710.pdf

Isn't this saying that Medicare payments will be reduced if a patient is admitted excessively for heart attack, heart failure, or pneumonia? And this list will be expanded starting in 2015. Who is determining what is 'excessive'? The Medicare Payment Advisory Commission. Isn't that the government? Or am I reading this wrong?

***They WANT heart attack readmissions because heart attack victims are on the organ harvesting list. That is per the disgusting Medicare committee that happens to be in charge of all this mess. Some Fire Department ambulance services have already been ordered to target heart attack victims. They want more organs harvested.

And none of that translates to proper care of heart attack patients in hospitals that are going along with that heinous crap.

If your loved one or if you suffer a heart attack, make sure a family member is with your loved one day and night in the hospital and make it clear no organ harvesting is to be done. The problem with Medicare patients is that they don't have the legal right to refuse harvesting. Hopefully you have a Nurse in the family who can monitor the medical care because the hospitals who have signed onto this heinous garbage will indeed deliberately kill the heart patient just to harvest the organs.

You do have the right to remove and transport your loved one to a different medical facility that does not engage in harvesting and medical murder. Right now is when you need to find out which hospitals do, and which don't and won't and/or find a doctor who can and will treat the patient at home.

Heart patients are the goodie bag for organ harvesters. They don't want liver disease, kidney disease, cancer, AIDS or addicts and drunks. They are picky. And they know
heart disease is a top disease in the USA, so there you go with their goodie goodie.

I seriously doubt anyone wants to harvest any organ of my 83 year old mother. No offense but you're coming across as a paranoid dork.

 

[Trajan]

How can you defend this statement?

She was speaking to operational folks: policy implementers. These are indeed people who will become familiar with the tools made available to them in the ACA primarily through experience, not through the tit-for-tat bullshit that so fascinates most of the posters here. It's only a stupid statement if you misrepresent it, as you do, as some kind of taunt at the electorate instead of a speech to boots-on-the-ground folks represented by NACo. Insofar as there's no dearth of dishonest folks like yourself out there, I'll agree that it was stupid of her to say something whose meaning is so easily distorted.

you should really think twice before casting aspersions ala "dishonest folks". Post #225 , still waiting for an answer.

 

[Meister]

How can you defend this statement?

She was speaking to operational folks: policy implementers. These are indeed people who will become familiar with the tools made available to them in the ACA primarily through experience, not through the tit-for-tat bullshit that so fascinates most of the posters here. It's only a stupid statement if you misrepresent it, as you do, as some kind of taunt at the electorate instead of a speech to boots-on-the-ground folks represented by NACo. Insofar as there's no dearth of dishonest folks like yourself out there, I'll agree that it was stupid of her to say something whose meaning is so easily distorted.

I'm trying to figure out just how much you get paid for your bullshit? Your no hobbyist on this subject, and this isn't the only forum which you post on. You are very disengenuous with the the bottom line of this Bill. There is a lot to this Bill that can be manipulated because it's vague as to the wording. One would think that with 2400 pages, all the I's would have been dotted and all the T's would have been crossed....but they're not....and for a very good reason, and you know it. If anybody on this board misrepresents, is dishonest, and distorts, that would be the hired goon, known as "greenbeard".

 

[geauxtohell]

How can you defend this statement?

She was speaking to operational folks: policy implementers. These are indeed people who will become familiar with the tools made available to them in the ACA primarily through experience, not through the tit-for-tat bullshit that so fascinates most of the posters here. It's only a stupid statement if you misrepresent it, as you do, as some kind of taunt at the electorate instead of a speech to boots-on-the-ground folks represented by NACo. Insofar as there's no dearth of dishonest folks like yourself out there, I'll agree that it was stupid of her to say something whose meaning is so easily distorted.

I'm trying to figure out just how much you get paid for your bullshit? Your no hobbyist on this subject, and this isn't the only forum which you post on. You are very disengenuous with the the bottom line of this Bill. There is a lot to this Bill that can be manipulated because it's vague as to the wording. One would think that with 2400 pages, all the I's would have been dotted and all the T's would have been crossed....but they're not....and for a very good reason, and you know it. If anybody on this board misrepresents, is dishonest, and distorts, that would be the hired goon, known as "greenbeard".

Ah, the old "anyone who disagrees with me must be a paid shill" bit.

Nice.

 

[Meister]

She was speaking to operational folks: policy implementers. These are indeed people who will become familiar with the tools made available to them in the ACA primarily through experience, not through the tit-for-tat bullshit that so fascinates most of the posters here. It's only a stupid statement if you misrepresent it, as you do, as some kind of taunt at the electorate instead of a speech to boots-on-the-ground folks represented by NACo. Insofar as there's no dearth of dishonest folks like yourself out there, I'll agree that it was stupid of her to say something whose meaning is so easily distorted.

I'm trying to figure out just how much you get paid for your bullshit? Your no hobbyist on this subject, and this isn't the only forum which you post on. You are very disengenuous with the the bottom line of this Bill. There is a lot to this Bill that can be manipulated because it's vague as to the wording. One would think that with 2400 pages, all the I's would have been dotted and all the T's would have been crossed....but they're not....and for a very good reason, and you know it. If anybody on this board misrepresents, is dishonest, and distorts, that would be the hired goon, known as "greenbeard".

Ah, the old "anyone who disagrees with me must be a paid shill" bit.

Nice.

So YOU don't read his posts.
Nice

 

[geauxtohell]

I'm trying to figure out just how much you get paid for your bullshit? Your no hobbyist on this subject, and this isn't the only forum which you post on. You are very disengenuous with the the bottom line of this Bill. There is a lot to this Bill that can be manipulated because it's vague as to the wording. One would think that with 2400 pages, all the I's would have been dotted and all the T's would have been crossed....but they're not....and for a very good reason, and you know it. If anybody on this board misrepresents, is dishonest, and distorts, that would be the hired goon, known as "greenbeard".

Ah, the old "anyone who disagrees with me must be a paid shill" bit.

Nice.

So YOU don't read his posts.
Nice

Oh, he admitted to being a paid poster in a post?

Because, short of that, my original snarkness still stands.

 

[Meister]

Ah, the old "anyone who disagrees with me must be a paid shill" bit.

Nice.

So YOU don't read his posts.
Nice

Oh, he admitted to being a paid poster in a post?

Because, short of that, my original snarkness still stands.

I disagree with you, but I don't call you a paid goon, G. Feeling left out?
Like I said....he is no hobbyist with this Bill.

 

[jillian]

Ah, the old "anyone who disagrees with me must be a paid shill" bit.

Nice.

So YOU don't read his posts.
Nice

Oh, he admitted to being a paid poster in a post?

Because, short of that, my original snarkness still stands.

there are far more people on this board i would think are paid shills before i would think of greenbeard.

 

[jillian]

So YOU don't read his posts.
Nice

Oh, he admitted to being a paid poster in a post?

Because, short of that, my original snarkness still stands.

I disagree with you, but I don't call you a paid goon, G. Feeling left out?
Like I said....he is no hobbyist with this Bill.

maybe he's actually read it... unlike the people talking about 'death panels'.

how much do you think TPS gets paid per post? or USArmyRetard?

 

[geauxtohell]

So YOU don't read his posts.
Nice

Oh, he admitted to being a paid poster in a post?

Because, short of that, my original snarkness still stands.

I disagree with you, but I don't call you a paid goon, G. Feeling left out?
Like I said....he is no hobbyist with this Bill.

You shouldn't accuse people of things unless you have more than your own paranoid suspicions to back them up.

It's bad form.

 

[geauxtohell]

Oh, he admitted to being a paid poster in a post?

Because, short of that, my original snarkness still stands.

I disagree with you, but I don't call you a paid goon, G. Feeling left out?
Like I said....he is no hobbyist with this Bill.

maybe he's actually read it... unlike the people talking about 'death panels'.

how much do you think TPS gets paid per post? or USArmyRetard?

Yeah. Now educating yourself about a piece of information = being a paid shill.

Nice.

I love the conceit that drives this stupidity: "I can't argue against you, so I'll accuse you of being hooker to undermine your credibility!"

 

[Meister]

Oh, he admitted to being a paid poster in a post?

Because, short of that, my original snarkness still stands.

I disagree with you, but I don't call you a paid goon, G. Feeling left out?
Like I said....he is no hobbyist with this Bill.

maybe he's actually read it... unlike the people talking about 'death panels'.

how much do you think TPS gets paid per post? or USArmyRetard?

TPS, and USA.R. I would call wingnuts...I would never call greenbeard a wingnut. I doubt that anyone who has read the bill has the details down the way greenbeard does, Jillian. My feelings about this bill with the number of pages, and still so much left for interpretation because of lack of wording is a failure, but an intended failure which most from the left will never admit to.

 

[Meister]

Oh, he admitted to being a paid poster in a post?

Because, short of that, my original snarkness still stands.

I disagree with you, but I don't call you a paid goon, G. Feeling left out?
Like I said....he is no hobbyist with this Bill.

You shouldn't accuse people of things unless you have more than your own paranoid suspicions to back them up.

It's bad form.

I think I will decide what "I" should or shouldn't do and not leave it up to a person such as yourself to tell me what "I" should or shouldn't do. I certainly don't tell "YOU" what "YOU" should or shouldn't do. It's a political message board.