Obama demands/gets $20Billion + public apology from BP

[txlonghorn]

My "huffy temper" is your problem...not mine. If it bothers you that much, then go away and stop butting into my argument with someone else. I have demonstrated as much knowledge on this matter and all legal aspects of it as you or anyone else has. I'm not even going to address my acknowledgment of the exceptions clause AGAIN...and if they settle this matter out of court, then you can claim a victory over the small part of this discussion. But they won't. And when I'm proven right, I won't expect any apology...I know better.

So in other words you have absolutely no way to prove anything I said wrong, and are resorting to "YOU'LL SEE! AT SOME POINT! I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME!". Useless. Support what you say for a change.

awesome. BP already agreed to pay the $20B. I don't see how you can say "IF they settled this matter out of court". Do you think BP will just back out and not pay now? The financial matter appears to be agreed upon and settled for the time being. Even if new evidence raised the number, I still doubt BP would go to court.

Where do you come up with this shit? How in the hell did you come up with the idea that I suggested they wouldn't pay now? I've already seen where several experts agree that BP will more than likely spend well over 40 billion...some say 50 - 60...and will likely be in court for years to come settling this matter. So don't kid yourself. I don't have to prove you're wrong. Seems the experts are standing on my side of the street. The only thing that has been agreed upon is that BP knows they are in deep and this is the first step out of the hole. BO even went as far as to suggest that BP foot the bill for lost revenue to workers due to HIS decision to impose a moratorium. ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? He wants BP to pay wages to the newly unemployed that HE created with this bullshit moratorium!!!

 

[SmarterThanHick]

the other half blame him for using this as a political move for doing the right thing.

NO ONE thinks that, we all KNOW he did the wrong thing

Incorrect. The post right above my previous one shows otherwise.

you keep trying to spin it into saying we believe BP shouldn't be responsible for the cost of this spill, but in reality we are all saying that you don't have a law in place and just ignore that law because you feel that at some point in the future it will be shown that negligence on the part of BP caused this accident.

Also false. I have never once said that you believe BP should not be responsible. Quote me for support to your claim if you feel otherwise. The law is in place for negligence, which BP has outright admitted. It is not that negligence might be shown in the future. Negligence was outright admitted by BP. Are you still missing that fact?

Let me ask you, what if an investigation determines that the real neglect was Transocean's?

Then they will be responsible as well. Not "instead of", but "in addition to". BP has already acknowledged neglect and pointed out what safety precautions and disaster plans they failed to maintain.

So to review: the US government believes BP was negligent and owes $20B. BP thinks BP was negligent and believes BP owes $20B. Every reasonable person in the country believes BP was negligent and believes BP should owe money to fix things. But you, random internet denier, know better.

 

[GWV5903]

It's amazing that half of you nutjobs blame Obama for doing the wrong thing, and the other half blame him for using this as a political move for doing the right thing. No matter what he does, good or bad, you people seem to only see it as an attempt for personal gain. Can the man do nothing without such speculation? This is ridiculous.

No, whats amazing is so many like yourself have to have it spelled out and you still don't get it.....

 

[Zona]

It's amazing that half of you nutjobs blame Obama for doing the wrong thing, and the other half blame him for using this as a political move for doing the right thing. No matter what he does, good or bad, you people seem to only see it as an attempt for personal gain. Can the man do nothing without such speculation? This is ridiculous.

NO ONE thinks that, we all KNOW he did the wrong thing, and you keep trying to spin it into saying we believe BP shouldn't be responsible for the cost of this spill, but in reality we are all saying that you don't have a law in place and just ignore that law because you feel that at some point in the future it will be shown that negligence on the part of BP caused this accident.

Let me ask you, what if an investigation determines that the real neglect was Transocean's? What then because the OPA clearly reads in that case that BP is not liable, will they get their $20B from the USG? Not bloody likely, and THAT is why you actually have an investigation before you determine someone is guilty of neglect.

Either you are a fucking idiot, or a troll. Either way, you suck as. Keep apologizing for us to bp.

Hey dumb ass, they volunteered the money after they were pushed by our preisdent. How can you possibly think this is a bad thing.

You are such a fucking hack, you would rather those people down there not get paid for years....(and eventually the fucking right wing supreme court members would make that money less than half some how.) Remember teh valdez ? Most of the victims died before even seeing penny one. You dumb fucking hack..

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Where do you come up with this shit? How in the hell did you come up with the idea that I suggested they wouldn't pay now? I've already seen where several experts agree that BP will more than likely spend well over 40 billion...some say 50 - 60...and will likely be in court for years to come settling this matter. So don't kid yourself. I don't have to prove you're wrong. Seems the experts are standing on my side of the street. The only thing that has been agreed upon is that BP knows they are in deep and this is the first step out of the hole. BO even went as far as to suggest that BP foot the bill for lost revenue to workers due to HIS decision to impose a moratorium. ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? He wants BP to pay wages to the newly unemployed that HE created with this bullshit moratorium!!!

Oh hello there! Still not citing anything you're saying, I see. Hope that works out well for you.

Who cares if the final number is higher? It doesn't change the point in the least.

 

[ConHog]

It's amazing that half of you nutjobs blame Obama for doing the wrong thing, and the other half blame him for using this as a political move for doing the right thing. No matter what he does, good or bad, you people seem to only see it as an attempt for personal gain. Can the man do nothing without such speculation? This is ridiculous.

NO ONE thinks that, we all KNOW he did the wrong thing, and you keep trying to spin it into saying we believe BP shouldn't be responsible for the cost of this spill, but in reality we are all saying that you don't have a law in place and just ignore that law because you feel that at some point in the future it will be shown that negligence on the part of BP caused this accident.

Let me ask you, what if an investigation determines that the real neglect was Transocean's? What then because the OPA clearly reads in that case that BP is not liable, will they get their $20B from the USG? Not bloody likely, and THAT is why you actually have an investigation before you determine someone is guilty of neglect.

Either you are a fucking idiot, or a troll. Either way, you suck as. Keep apologizing for us to bp.

Hey dumb ass, they volunteered the money after they were pushed by our preisdent. How can you possibly think this is a bad thing.

You are such a fucking hack, you would rather those people down there not get paid for years....(and eventually the fucking right wing supreme court members would make that money less than half some how.) Remember teh valdez ? Most of the victims died before even seeing penny one. You dumb fucking hack..

Yeah, b/c that is EXACTLY what I said, only the opposite.

BP did the right thing ponying up the $20B. The ONLY thing myself and others are saying is that Barry was in the wrong by demanding the $20B and threatening to kick someone's ass.

Don't even pretend like you wouldn't be saying the exact same thing if BOOSH had done something similar.

 

[Zona]

Citizens in the golf region, keep this in mind, if republicans were in office, it would take YEARS

 

[ConHog]

Citizens in the golf region, keep this in mind, if republicans were in office, it would take YEARS

No it wouldn't b/c BP agreed to pay long before Barry's threats and bullying.

 

[txlonghorn]

the other half blame him for using this as a political move for doing the right thing.

NO ONE thinks that, we all KNOW he did the wrong thing

Incorrect. The post right above my previous one shows otherwise.

Damn..you missed it...he wasn't saying that no one said it...he was saying that instead of thinking it...we KNOW it.

you keep trying to spin it into saying we believe BP shouldn't be responsible for the cost of this spill, but in reality we are all saying that you don't have a law in place and just ignore that law because you feel that at some point in the future it will be shown that negligence on the part of BP caused this accident.

Also false. I have never once said that you believe BP should not be responsible. Quote me for support to your claim if you feel otherwise. The law is in place for negligence, which BP has outright admitted. It is not that negligence might be shown in the future. Negligence was outright admitted by BP. Are you still missing that fact?

No we are not missing that point... HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO ASK THE SAME FUCKING QUESTION...I'm typing as slowly as I can so you can keep up.

Ok..if it will make you feel better...you are right about the negligence exception...can we move on now. Good. The issue isn't whether or not BP has admitted guilt. It's what the actual findings of that guilt of negligence is. What is the magnitude of it? How bad did they muff this thing. I think we can all agree that they did. But can't we just slow the hell down and get some facts that include what took place right up to the point of the explosion and who all is responsible for what happened? I don't understand what the rush to judgment is. I mean, damn, he wasn't in a real hurry the first 40 days of this thing and then he saw a chance to score some Benjamins to make him look good and he starts foaming at the mouth.

Let me ask you, what if an investigation determines that the real neglect was Transocean's?

Then they will be responsible as well. Not "instead of", but "in addition to". BP has already acknowledged neglect and pointed out what safety precautions and disaster plans they failed to maintain.

So to review: the US government believes BP was negligent and owes $20B. BP thinks BP was negligent and believes BP owes $20B. Every reasonable person in the country believes BP was negligent and believes BP should owe money to fix things. But you, random internet denier, know better.

Nope... what I know is that BP acted with negligence and they admit that...that's ALL I know. I don't know how much and I don't know who else was involved and I'd like to know all the facts...as would ANY judge...before making a decision of guilt and the penalty imposed.

You're saying it was settled out of court, but we're arguing that nothing has been settled yet, because the level of negligence has yet to be concluded.

 

[Zona]

NO ONE thinks that, we all KNOW he did the wrong thing, and you keep trying to spin it into saying we believe BP shouldn't be responsible for the cost of this spill, but in reality we are all saying that you don't have a law in place and just ignore that law because you feel that at some point in the future it will be shown that negligence on the part of BP caused this accident.

Let me ask you, what if an investigation determines that the real neglect was Transocean's? What then because the OPA clearly reads in that case that BP is not liable, will they get their $20B from the USG? Not bloody likely, and THAT is why you actually have an investigation before you determine someone is guilty of neglect.

Either you are a fucking idiot, or a troll. Either way, you suck as. Keep apologizing for us to bp.

Hey dumb ass, they volunteered the money after they were pushed by our preisdent. How can you possibly think this is a bad thing.

You are such a fucking hack, you would rather those people down there not get paid for years....(and eventually the fucking right wing supreme court members would make that money less than half some how.) Remember teh valdez ? Most of the victims died before even seeing penny one. You dumb fucking hack..

Yeah, b/c that is EXACTLY what I said, only the opposite.

BP did the right thing ponying up the $20B. The ONLY thing myself and others are saying is that Barry was in the wrong by demanding the $20B and threatening to kick someone's ass.
Don't even pretend like you wouldn't be saying the exact same thing if BOOSH had done something similar.

a couple things, Bush would have never, EVER asked an oil company to pay those victims...NEVER....But I will be honest with you, if he told a company that was fucking up my country to pay for it, hell yeah, I would have said, go get em. You see, that is where partisan bullshit goes out the window when they are screwing with our country...You dont get it....do you? Obviously not.

How you answer this proves everything..

You honestly think BP would have come up with 20 Billion dollars for the victims if it weren't for the president telling/asking them too?

Be honest now. Keep in mind, at first they were trying to get those people to sign 5k waivers...they lied about how much was spewing, they lied about being able to handle something like this, they had more violations than any other oil company that size etc etc..

First you all say he isnt being tough, now your saying he is being too tough. Typical.

By the way, Obama did "kick ass". Great going Sir.

 

[txlonghorn]

Citizens in the golf region, keep this in mind, if republicans were in office, it would take YEARS

oops...freudian slip there..."golf region" seems all the obamabots have golf on their minds.

LOL...

 

[Zona]

Citizens in the golf region, keep this in mind, if republicans were in office, it would take YEARS

No it wouldn't b/c BP agreed to pay long before Barry's threats and bullying.

20 billion or 5k per person....which one?

You sir are a fucking joke.

 

[Zona]

Citizens in the golf region, keep this in mind, if republicans were in office, it would take YEARS

oops...freudian slip there..."golf region" seems all the obamabots have golf on their minds.

LOL...

I had a 87 vw Golf GT. Loved that car.

 

[txlonghorn]

Either you are a fucking idiot, or a troll. Either way, you suck as. Keep apologizing for us to bp.

Hey dumb ass, they volunteered the money after they were pushed by our preisdent. How can you possibly think this is a bad thing.

You are such a fucking hack, you would rather those people down there not get paid for years....(and eventually the fucking right wing supreme court members would make that money less than half some how.) Remember teh valdez ? Most of the victims died before even seeing penny one. You dumb fucking hack..

Yeah, b/c that is EXACTLY what I said, only the opposite.

BP did the right thing ponying up the $20B. The ONLY thing myself and others are saying is that Barry was in the wrong by demanding the $20B and threatening to kick someone's ass.
Don't even pretend like you wouldn't be saying the exact same thing if BOOSH had done something similar.

a couple things, Bush would have never, EVER asked an oil company to pay those victims...NEVER....

How you answer this proves everything..

You honestly think BP would have come up with 20 Billion dollars for the victims if it weren't for the president telling/asking them too?

Be honest now. Keep in mind, at first they were trying to get those people to sign 5k waivers...they lied about how much was spewing, they lied about being able to handle something like this, they had more violations than any other oil company that size etc etc..

First you all say he isnt being tough, now your saying he is being too tough. Typical.

you make some pretty big claims for someone else's actions Z. How can you back up that dumbass statement that Bush would NEVER ask an oil company to pay victims? I assume you are referring to those who lost their jobs...not their lives. And come to think of it, why the fuck would he have to? The normal way of doing it is to find the blame...measure it...determine the guilt....measure that...and then establish the financial restitution. That's how it should be done. He would have to "ASK" for anything. He could then say, "based on these findings, you're are hereby ordered to pay...."

 

[Zona]

Yeah, b/c that is EXACTLY what I said, only the opposite.

BP did the right thing ponying up the $20B. The ONLY thing myself and others are saying is that Barry was in the wrong by demanding the $20B and threatening to kick someone's ass.
Don't even pretend like you wouldn't be saying the exact same thing if BOOSH had done something similar.

a couple things, Bush would have never, EVER asked an oil company to pay those victims...NEVER....

How you answer this proves everything..

You honestly think BP would have come up with 20 Billion dollars for the victims if it weren't for the president telling/asking them too?

Be honest now. Keep in mind, at first they were trying to get those people to sign 5k waivers...they lied about how much was spewing, they lied about being able to handle something like this, they had more violations than any other oil company that size etc etc..

First you all say he isnt being tough, now your saying he is being too tough. Typical.

you make some pretty big claims for someone else's actions Z. How can you back up that dumbass statement that Bush would NEVER ask an oil company to pay victims? I assume you are referring to those who lost their jobs...not their lives. And come to think of it, why the fuck would he have to? The normal way of doing it is to find the blame...measure it...determine the guilt....measure that...and then establish the financial restitution. That's how it should be done. He would have to "ASK" for anything. He could then say, "based on these findings, you're are hereby ordered to pay...."

Be honest here....isnt that what happened with the Valdez thing and how much money was paid in what time frame? (here is a hint, a lot , a lot...of them died before seeing penny one.) Perhaps the president didnt want that to happen again.

AGain, just say it, good job mr. president. Please dont say BP said they would pay...blah blah...they lied about EVERYTHING up to this point. Agree? If not, show me something they DIDNT lie about..

"After the 1994 court ruling requiring a settlement of $5 billion, Exxon launched a series of appeals. At a trial in 2006, the jury agreed to cut the settlement in half to $2.5 billion (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/06/25/exxon-valdez.html). In June 2008, Justice David Souter ruled that punitive damages cannot exceed the approximately $500 million Exxon has already paid to victims of the oil spill and their families. (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/06/25/exxon-valdez.html) "

Fucking Souter ....Souter made it so they only paid 500 million. It was supposed to be 5 billion.

This is exactly why Obama did what he did. Go Mr. President.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Citizens in the golf region, keep this in mind, if republicans were in office, it would take YEARS

No it wouldn't b/c BP agreed to pay long before Barry's threats and bullying.

20 billion or 5k per person....which one?

You sir are a fucking joke.

LOL

Forrreee!

LOL

 

[ConHog]

Either you are a fucking idiot, or a troll. Either way, you suck as. Keep apologizing for us to bp.

Hey dumb ass, they volunteered the money after they were pushed by our preisdent. How can you possibly think this is a bad thing.

You are such a fucking hack, you would rather those people down there not get paid for years....(and eventually the fucking right wing supreme court members would make that money less than half some how.) Remember teh valdez ? Most of the victims died before even seeing penny one. You dumb fucking hack..

Yeah, b/c that is EXACTLY what I said, only the opposite.

BP did the right thing ponying up the $20B. The ONLY thing myself and others are saying is that Barry was in the wrong by demanding the $20B and threatening to kick someone's ass.
Don't even pretend like you wouldn't be saying the exact same thing if BOOSH had done something similar.

a couple things, Bush would have never, EVER asked an oil company to pay those victims...NEVER....But I will be honest with you, if he told a company that was fucking up my country to pay for it, hell yeah, I would have said, go get em. You see, that is where partisan bullshit goes out the window when they are screwing with our country...You dont get it....do you? Obviously not.

How you answer this proves everything..

You honestly think BP would have come up with 20 Billion dollars for the victims if it weren't for the president telling/asking them too?

Be honest now. Keep in mind, at first they were trying to get those people to sign 5k waivers...they lied about how much was spewing, they lied about being able to handle something like this, they had more violations than any other oil company that size etc etc..

First you all say he isnt being tough, now your saying he is being too tough. Typical.

By the way, Obama did "kick ass". Great going Sir.

What a reasonable response? Great, let's have it .

I disagree with you , Bush would have went after BP, maybe out of nothing more than political reality, but let's continue being honest and admit that ALL politicians including Obama and Bush act more out of politics than care for the people.

Secondly, yes BP did all the things you say, as would any company. That's business 101. Doesn't mean it's right, but that's the way the world works. if someone was stupid enough to just sign a waiver that's their problem. I'm not defending BP just pointing out that that is a reality.

Heck I'm not even saying Obama shouldn't have put the pressure on BP, I'm saying that he is demonizing them and trying to score political points by acting as if he swooped in and forced a company to do what was right when the fact is that is the first situation I can ever recall of hearing about where an entity was required to essentially admit guilt and pay a fine before any trial or anything. This despite the fact that sans proof of negligence the cap is supposed to be $75M.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

BP did the right thing ponying up the $20B. The ONLY thing myself and others are saying is that Barry was in the wrong by demanding the $20B and threatening to kick someone's ass.

Don't even pretend like you wouldn't be saying the exact same thing if BOOSH had done something similar.

No. Unlike biased asshats such as yourself, reasonable people agree with the right thing to do regardless of who's doing it.

Why is the president wrong in demanding compensation for a company horribly damaging part of this country? Isn't that part of his JOB? What do you think ought to have happened in this situation?

No it wouldn't b/c BP agreed to pay long before Barry's threats and bullying.

BP agreed to pay SOMETHING. Not $20B. Do you really think they would have just ponied up that amount if no one demanded it of them? Hells no. Are you so naive as to believe they're doing it out of the kindness of their own heart? Out of a personal sense of moral responsibility or indebtedness? No. They said they would pay because that's what PR told them to say. They agreed to pay the amount demanded because THAT'S WHAT PR TOLD THEM TO DO. They're in the public spotlight for a major screwup. What else did you really think they'd do? They're not as dumb as you. They understand the principles of damage control.

Nope... what I know is that BP acted with negligence and they admit that...that's ALL I know. I don't know how much and I don't know who else was involved and I'd like to know all the facts...as would ANY judge...before making a decision of guilt and the penalty imposed.

You're saying it was settled out of court, but we're arguing that nothing has been settled yet, because the level of negligence has yet to be concluded.

Which means you don't know what "settling out of court" means. Nothing has to be established formally to settle a matter out of court. The only thing needed for that is that both parties agree to some terms, usually resulting in the plaintiff dropping the case upon the agreement being met. So when you say things like they need a judge to make a decision based on the extent of negligence, you are once again wrong because a judge is not needed to settle something out of court.

I mean, if you're not convinced that the number is good, examine the two possibilities: If it's too low, and BP should be paying more, the government will probably demand more later on, and there's no problem there. If it's too high, and BP should be paying less, they can reject the agreement and take the case to court, and there's STILL no problem.

So why are your panties still in a knot if the issue is being dealt with in a reasonable manner, and can continue to be dealt with reasonably even if the initial figure is off?

 

[Zona]

Yeah, b/c that is EXACTLY what I said, only the opposite.

BP did the right thing ponying up the $20B. The ONLY thing myself and others are saying is that Barry was in the wrong by demanding the $20B and threatening to kick someone's ass.
Don't even pretend like you wouldn't be saying the exact same thing if BOOSH had done something similar.

a couple things, Bush would have never, EVER asked an oil company to pay those victims...NEVER....But I will be honest with you, if he told a company that was fucking up my country to pay for it, hell yeah, I would have said, go get em. You see, that is where partisan bullshit goes out the window when they are screwing with our country...You dont get it....do you? Obviously not.

How you answer this proves everything..

You honestly think BP would have come up with 20 Billion dollars for the victims if it weren't for the president telling/asking them too?

Be honest now. Keep in mind, at first they were trying to get those people to sign 5k waivers...they lied about how much was spewing, they lied about being able to handle something like this, they had more violations than any other oil company that size etc etc..

First you all say he isnt being tough, now your saying he is being too tough. Typical.

By the way, Obama did "kick ass". Great going Sir.

What a reasonable response? Great, let's have it .

I disagree with you , Bush would have went after BP, maybe out of nothing more than political reality, but let's continue being honest and admit that ALL politicians including Obama and Bush act more out of politics than care for the people.

Secondly, yes BP did all the things you say, as would any company. That's business 101. Doesn't mean it's right, but that's the way the world works. if someone was stupid enough to just sign a waiver that's their problem. I'm not defending BP just pointing out that that is a reality.

Heck I'm not even saying Obama shouldn't have put the pressure on BP, I'm saying that he is demonizing them and trying to score political points by acting as if he swooped in and forced a company to do what was right when the fact is that is the first situation I can ever recall of hearing about where an entity was required to essentially admit guilt and pay a fine before any trial or anything. This despite the fact that sans proof of negligence the cap is supposed to be $75M.

What he did was unprecedented. 20 billion from a company to pay to the victims...

Oh and I wonder if the people who can save their businesses, homes, boats, lifestyles agree with you...think it was just for political points.

He "swooped" in and did the right thing. Go Mr. President! Oh and its not business 101 to do what they did. They have more violations than anyone in that business who was that size.

 

[ConHog]

BP did the right thing ponying up the $20B. The ONLY thing myself and others are saying is that Barry was in the wrong by demanding the $20B and threatening to kick someone's ass.

Don't even pretend like you wouldn't be saying the exact same thing if BOOSH had done something similar.

No. Unlike biased asshats such as yourself, reasonable people agree with the right thing to do regardless of who's doing it.

Why is the president wrong in demanding compensation for a company horribly damaging part of this country? Isn't that part of his JOB? What do you think ought to have happened in this situation?

No it wouldn't b/c BP agreed to pay long before Barry's threats and bullying.

BP agreed to pay SOMETHING. Not $20B. Do you really think they would have just ponied up that amount if no one demanded it of them? Hells no. Are you so naive as to believe they're doing it out of the kindness of their own heart? Out of a personal sense of moral responsibility or indebtedness? No. They said they would pay because that's what PR told them to say. They agreed to pay the amount demanded because THAT'S WHAT PR TOLD THEM TO DO. They're in the public spotlight for a major screwup. What else did you really think they'd do? They're not as dumb as you. They understand the principles of damage control.

Nope... what I know is that BP acted with negligence and they admit that...that's ALL I know. I don't know how much and I don't know who else was involved and I'd like to know all the facts...as would ANY judge...before making a decision of guilt and the penalty imposed.

You're saying it was settled out of court, but we're arguing that nothing has been settled yet, because the level of negligence has yet to be concluded.

Which means you don't know what "settling out of court" means. Nothing has to be established formally to settle a matter out of court. The only thing needed for that is that both parties agree to some terms, usually resulting in the plaintiff dropping the case upon the agreement being met. So when you say things like they need a judge to make a decision based on the extent of negligence, you are once again wrong because a judge is not needed to settle something out of court.

I mean, if you're not convinced that the number is good, examine the two possibilities: If it's too low, and BP should be paying more, the government will probably demand more later on, and there's no problem there. If it's too high, and BP should be paying less, they can reject the agreement and take the case to court, and there's STILL no problem.

So why are your panties still in a knot if the issue is being dealt with in a reasonable manner, and can continue to be dealt with reasonably even if the initial figure is off?

It's simple. Post me one other example where someone has basically agreed to a plea bargain with no set amount of damages AND still was facing a court case over the matter.

That's not the way it's done. When an agreement is made its for X amount of dollars and case closed. Not this government extortion of give us $20B now and maybe more later when we take you to court...........