Notable Christian Musician "Loses His Faith"

[Picaro]

“Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely.”

Tenets none of which are the sole purview of Christianity.

Tenets which nobody on the left has ever practiced at all, so your point is typical of your irrelevancy.

 

[Picaro]

Marty Sampson of the band Hillsong has recently renounced his Christian faith. It happens. However, his statement about this was shocking. Here is a man who was a "worship leader" for some twenty years. And this is what he has to say on leaving the faith:

Time for some real talk. I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.

This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.

I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others.

All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point. I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

Sampson, who for years has written songs for and toured with the popular music group Hillsong United, recently announced on social media that he was losing his faith. He subsequently clarified that he had not renounced Christianity entirely but that his faith was on shaky ground. The original Instagram post where he said he was losing his faith has since been deleted.
Marty Sampson responds to Skillet's John Cooper: I was being honest, not trying to draw attention

When Marty Sampson Shared His Faith Struggles, Here's What He Did for Others

I think many people re-evaluate or take stock multiple times throughout their life no matter what their belief system, or the lack there of, is. It is fitting for any individual to outgrow Hillsong or multiple other megachurches. Judaism and Christianity are replete with characters encountering a crisis of faith.

Sampson may not be leaving Christianity but simply evolving. I'm not saying that to leave Christianity is to evolve. I'm saying that Hillsong itself appears to be devoid of a lot of things that some of it's ex-members are seeking and while that may appeal to a certain type of individual to many others it's not. It's probably why his questions appear to be from a 17 year old atheist.

From the Book of Robert of Frost

Chapter 1 Verse 4
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.



Marty Sampson can have a journey as well.

The difference is this. "I've been married for 25 years and quite happily so, here's some advice on being married"

vs.

"Yeah me and my wife are separating after 25 years of marriage--here's what I think of making a happy marriage"

EVERYONE is very eager to hear the latter when it comes to Christianity. Ever notice that? That is what gets a lot of play and attention. No one gives a rip about the former.

There has been an uproar over this church that is believed to be forcing a change in the format of services to compete.

This is a format that a lot of people appear to be really unhappy with.

Perhaps, it's a gift.

Or perhaps people should listen to more than one minister all the time. It's complex theology, some are going to get lost, others will expand their experiences and do fine. If all you listened to were sermons by Osteen, who doesn't pretend to be a theologian or intellectual, then naturally you will see a lot of disappointment, for instance, since there is far more to it than what just one minister can ever cover, hence why there are so many different ones out there. It's also a very social religion, meant to be discussed and argued over among members themselves.

Judaism is far older; how much uniformity does one find in it? The old yiddish joke re if you find two Jews arguing theology at a bus stop you will hear three opinions is a joke told from experience.

 

[SweetSue92]

That's an inane comment

no, It's spot on. You said you conemcerned yourself with this man because he eschews your mission and vision. Well, he has that in common with 6 billion other people. My, you must be very concerned.

In other words, the reason you gave was grade a bullshit.

Still complete dross, your comments

 

[SweetSue92]

1. He was a notable leader, a songwriter and "praise leader" for 20 years

Why is his leaving so personal to YOU?

2. Nevertheless, he had about the understanding of most of my 5th grade Sunday School students, or possibly less, in terms of grasp of the basics, and certainly in Christian maturity

Could his lack of understanding as you see it possibly be the reason for his departure? That he left the religion just like people leave relationships because they no longer provide them with anything or in the very least the things that they want and need?

It's interesting that you say you love listening to contemporary Christian music even though you're not Christian. You know what you don't hear non-Christians say? That they love reading the Bible even though they're not Christian. So somehow, we have presented Christian music as such a watered-down message that non-Christians feel totally comfortable with it.

I know people who enjoy reading the Bible who are not Christian but they also love learning about others including their religions. Reading religious texts is not easy for me and since it's not a requirement I just don't do it, it's too much like work.

I love music in general, most types but why are you upset that I enjoy Christian Contemporary? I was just mentioning to someone the other day that I love Prince of Peace and a New Hallelujah by Michael W Smith featuring the African Children's choir. I thought Christ brought a message of love to the world, I didn't realize that it was exclusively for his followers.

Um. When you belong to an organization in which you share the same vision, goals, and ideals, and someone leaves that organization while at the same time betraying it--it's personal. Or else you don't really believe it. Right?

Believe me, every time some female teacher dog preys on a young man--especially a special needs young man--it's personal to me. Not personal in that I know her, but personal in that she betrayed the profession that I love.

I really don't think this is difficult to understand. Is it?

No your comment doesn't make sense - what bitch are you referring to and what special needs young man? Your response caused me to go back and not only re-read the OP but also to check out the link and i saw nothing that refers to him being taken advantage of by someone in your field.

Furthermore, while people join grouops of like-minded individuals, everyone of us has our own beliefs, our own aspirations, our own needs & desires. When they align with those of others and we choose to join them then great, but things oftentime change.

Disappointment at this turn of events is definitely warranted, however anger at him and considering his change of heart as betrayal seems a bit extreme to me. People change their minds all of the time, even after having stated that they want one thing, or believe one thing they then leave - jobs, residences, relationships and apparently religions. Maybe they were presented with additional information that they did not have originally but I don't see how it is a reflection upon those who remain.

K you realize that now you seem to be taking this personally. Right?

Why would I be taking this personally? I'm not a Christian, he's not leaving my religion, or me personally, or a group that we were all in. You're the who is upset, you admitted as much and then tried to explain why him leaving is considered a betrayal. Some people would say good riddence, his loss not take it as a reflection upon themselves or their religion

All I've done is ask the question as to WHY people get so offended when one of their team members abdicates. I explained I was trying to be sensitive to your feelings because I know you're a devout Christian however I was trying to get some insight, certainly my intent was not to increase your anguish.

I'm not at all anguished. If you cannot understand why people would be upset after leaving your organization after they've been a leader in that org for a long time, and then panning it--I don't know what to tell you. I guess then YOU have the problem.

 

[citygator]

I’ve used their music as part of the children’s class I taught in my church. Good stuff. Happens though. As a church elder for many years I’ve seen many pastors leave the job but only a few leave the faith. Usually there is a personal thing going on that makes them feel unworthy of the role however I can believe that overbearing Christians could certainly drive him out.

 

[karpenter]

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

That's My Take
Like A Teenager That Thinks They've Found Enlightenment
Wish Him The Best Of Luck

Taylor Swift Sold Herself For Stardom
That Kanye Thing Was Her Initiation
Katy Perry Had To Kiss A Girl And Like It
And In Her Second Video
Roll Around In Bed With A Black Guy
Miley Cyrus Was A Full Blow-Out
Never Leave Out 'Icon' Madonna......Madonna....

There's Other Examples

 

[JoeB131]

God sends no one to hell but Satan and his fellow demons/fallen angels. People go to hell because they are sinful and have no means but Christ to atone for this inbred nature. Those that have been exposed to Christ and reject Him will face a far more grievous eternity separated from GOD than some native who has never heard of Christ and His gospel message. Even Sodom and Gomorrah will be under far less condemnation than those that rejected GOD's truth.

Imagine if you have a friend. This friend DEMANDS you praise him all day, that you constantly tell him how wonderful he is, that you spend a certain percentage of your week hanging with him. Even Donald Trump would call this person a narcissist. And if you don't, he's going to inflict awful punishments on you.

You'd run away from this PSYCHO as fast as you possibly could.

Now, if you wouldn't put up with this kind of behavior from a friend, why do you tolerate it from a "God"?

 

[JoeB131]

God sends no one to hell but Satan and his fellow demons/fallen angels. People go to hell because they are sinful and have no means but Christ to atone for this inbred nature. Those that have been exposed to Christ and reject Him will face a far more grievous eternity separated from GOD than some native who has never heard of Christ and His gospel message. Even Sodom and Gomorrah will be under far less condemnation than those that rejected GOD's truth.

Imagine if you have a friend. This friend DEMANDS you praise him all day, that you constantly tell him how wonderful he is, that you spend a certain percentage of your week hanging with him. Even Donald Trump would call this person a narcissist. And if you don't, he's going to inflict awful punishments on you.

You'd run away from this PSYCHO as fast as you possibly could.

Now, if you wouldn't put up with this kind of behavior from a friend, why do you tolerate it from a "God"?

 

[JoeB131]

Katy Perry Had To Kiss A Girl And Like It
And In Her Second Video
Roll Around In Bed With A Black Guy

Oh, noes, that's horrible.

Why do you always find a racist when you scratch an evangelical?

 

[JoeB131]

I'm not at all anguished. If you cannot understand why people would be upset after leaving your organization after they've been a leader in that org for a long time, and then panning it--I don't know what to tell you. I guess then YOU have the problem.

Yes, don't you realize you need to be unquestioning sheep and never, ever question anything!

 

[LittleNipper]

No one says people of faith are "better" than people who are not. In fact Jesus said, "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God..." Romans 3:23

Wouldn't that have been Saint Paul who said that.

The problem is when someone in the faith poses as if they are a leader when they have less wisdom and understanding than my Sunday School 5th graders--and I mean that quite seriously. Marty Sampson with this one post demonstrated less Christian maturity than some of my older Sunday School students. And I'm not talking about just parroting the right answers.

As Christians "we" allowed him to write our songs, lead our praise, whatever. This is a problem. We are not well-rooted, and that's a problem.

Naw, the real problem is that you guys just can't stand having anyone question the BULLSHIT.

You see, as an Atheist, I have no problem with Jesus' philosophy. Treat people the way you'd want to be treated, forgive those who've wronged you, help the less forturnate... Those are all pretty good ideas lost on "Conservative Christians" like you who think Christianity is about hating gays and Mexicans.

Where you lose me is when you claim he was a divine being, and that if you don't believe that he was, then God is going to burn you in hell forever and ever, but if you "Say the right things", that gets you into heaven.

By that logic... Anne Frank is burning in hell right now, and Jeffrey Dahmner is sitting on a cloud. (Thankfully, God hates them Gay people, so he won't accidentally run into anyone he ate! That would be awkward.) .

Sorry if I think that's all manner of fucked up.

How do you know Anne Frank didn't hear the gospel message while in the concentration camp or when she was in school? Did she indeed hold to temple worship and blood sacrifice? Seems like there is nearly 2000 years of Jewish ambiguity.

 

[Disir]

Marty Sampson of the band Hillsong has recently renounced his Christian faith. It happens. However, his statement about this was shocking. Here is a man who was a "worship leader" for some twenty years. And this is what he has to say on leaving the faith:

Time for some real talk. I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.

This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.

I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others.

All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point. I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

Sampson, who for years has written songs for and toured with the popular music group Hillsong United, recently announced on social media that he was losing his faith. He subsequently clarified that he had not renounced Christianity entirely but that his faith was on shaky ground. The original Instagram post where he said he was losing his faith has since been deleted.
Marty Sampson responds to Skillet's John Cooper: I was being honest, not trying to draw attention

When Marty Sampson Shared His Faith Struggles, Here's What He Did for Others

I think many people re-evaluate or take stock multiple times throughout their life no matter what their belief system, or the lack there of, is. It is fitting for any individual to outgrow Hillsong or multiple other megachurches. Judaism and Christianity are replete with characters encountering a crisis of faith.

Sampson may not be leaving Christianity but simply evolving. I'm not saying that to leave Christianity is to evolve. I'm saying that Hillsong itself appears to be devoid of a lot of things that some of it's ex-members are seeking and while that may appeal to a certain type of individual to many others it's not. It's probably why his questions appear to be from a 17 year old atheist.

From the Book of Robert of Frost

Chapter 1 Verse 4
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.



Marty Sampson can have a journey as well.

The difference is this. "I've been married for 25 years and quite happily so, here's some advice on being married"

vs.

"Yeah me and my wife are separating after 25 years of marriage--here's what I think of making a happy marriage"

EVERYONE is very eager to hear the latter when it comes to Christianity. Ever notice that? That is what gets a lot of play and attention. No one gives a rip about the former.

There has been an uproar over this church that is believed to be forcing a change in the format of services to compete.

This is a format that a lot of people appear to be really unhappy with.

Perhaps, it's a gift.

Or perhaps people should listen to more than one minister all the time. It's complex theology, some are going to get lost, others will expand their experiences and do fine. If all you listened to were sermons by Osteen, who doesn't pretend to be a theologian or intellectual, then naturally you will see a lot of disappointment, for instance, since there is far more to it than what just one minister can ever cover, hence why there are so many different ones out there. It's also a very social religion, meant to be discussed and argued over among members themselves.

Judaism is far older; how much uniformity does one find in it? The old yiddish joke re if you find two Jews arguing theology at a bus stop you will hear three opinions is a joke told from experience.

Wouldn't that be the gift? Intrinsic motivation to change? There are people that are in church every Wednesday and Sunday and they are satisfied. There are others that decide they need to learn Koine Greek. Both can happen and at different stages of one's life. I agree that it should be discussed and argued but there are churches where that doesn't occur.

I read the weekly parshah and multiple interpretations from different Rabbis. The same Rabbi can offer different insights each year. I love it.

 

[zaangalewa]

Marty Sampson of the band Hillsong has recently renounced his Christian faith. It happens. However, his statement about this was shocking. Here is a man who was a "worship leader" for some twenty years. And this is what he has to say on leaving the faith:

Time for some real talk. I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.

This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.

I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others.

All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point. I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

Could be more worse. You could awake and suddenly believe in god. Then you would be much more shocked, isn't it?

His "arguments" are by the way not very plausible. Sounds more as if he never had believed in god and he confuses spirituality with some psychological qualities and empty rhethoric phrases.

 

[anynameyouwish]

Marty Sampson of the band Hillsong has recently renounced his Christian faith. It happens. However, his statement about this was shocking. Here is a man who was a "worship leader" for some twenty years. And this is what he has to say on leaving the faith:

Time for some real talk. I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.

This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.

I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others.

All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point. I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

"Unfortunately, this is not going to get better."

it will get better for both liberals and conservatives!

as more and more people lose their faith in false religions then sanity and reason shall rule!

and

if conservatives ever stop believing in god then they will have no problem killing as many liberals, gays, atheists, muslims, wiccans, feminists as they can.

because as everyone of them admits: "no god? then murder is ok!"

 

[zaangalewa]

Good for him.

Based on your signature you would be unable to be objective at any rate.

Not at all. I fault no one for their faith. If religion is where one finds strength and comfort, good for them. If one finds strength and comfort elsewhere, good for them.

If someone finds no strength and no comfort at all - good to believe in god.

You see, unlike many people of faith, I say to each their own. I do not believe that a person of faith is better than a person who is not. I do not believe that a person of faith has any more answers than a person who is not.

I would say that I am much more likely to be objective than say... you.

 

[BreezeWood]

As Christians "we" allowed him to write our songs, lead our praise, whatever. This is a problem. We are not well-rooted, and that's a problem.

I totally agree but see no solution. Modern Christianity is about saying the sinnner's prayer, attending church and permanently "going through a hard time". The K-Love genre or "praise" genre glorifies suffering. Who wants to live a life focusing on an once in a lifetime event of "getting saved", attending an intellectually empty church service and searching for opportunities to go through a hard time?

Christianity somehow has morphed into what it is but there are no successful reformers available. Christianity is what it is. It still has a few hundred years left. So it is fine for now just the way it is.

We will all die way before Christianity does. So if you like it just enjoy it for the rest of your life. It will likely be there for you.

You WILL face hard times either with or without GOD's help. I much rather have it. I find Christianity very stimulating and intellectual. Those that reject it seem to depend on Christians to stimulate their thoughts of opposition. Without Christianity, what would you then complain about and what moral stones would you find to throw?

Well, we certainly know the effects of its decline in a country; murdering babies by the many millions, rampant dope addictions, mindless self-indulgence, and bizarre sexual deviancies are now billed as 'normal', and wealth is worshiped as the only true measure of 'achievement'. Both right and left wing ideological fantasies treat humans as nothing but 'economic units', to be disposed of when no longer 'productive', etc. Red China and the Soviet Union are considered 'the good guys' now.

.

Both right and left wing ideological fantasies treat humans as nothing but 'economic units', to be disposed of when no longer 'productive', etc.

sicko, what origin country were you raised in ...

 

[karpenter]

Oh, noes, that's horrible.
Why do you always find a racist when you scratch an evangelical?

Nope
That Was Her Pop Industry Initiation
Just Like I Said It Was

 

[zaangalewa]

... german christians voted for nazi hitler ...

You make a lot of mistakes with this oversimplifying statement. First of all Hitler was not really elected. In most cases we speak of a "Machterschleichung" - a silent way in the background to get more and more might. In the last unmanipulated free elections in Germany in 1932 Hitler got only 37% of the votes (and less votes in the Catholic regions = the most religious regions in a relativelly not very religious country.) So the Nazis had needed normally a coalition with others - but ("the winner takes it all") he came in power with a special legislation. And the Hitler of 1932 was not the same Hiter as the Hitler from 1942. Oh by the way: An important factor for the grwoing might of Hitler was the death of president Hindenburg too. He was afterwards as well chancelor and president of Germany. Hindenburg was old - perhaps he died on normal reasons - perhaps not.

Second: A little renaissance of the Christian religion came after world war 2 in Germany - that's for exampel a reason, why our new constitution refers to god again. And the Grundgesetz bases in its spirit on the values of the Christian religion. So when you like to compare a Christian influence with the country Germany then it makes more sense to use West-Germany from 1945 - 1989 instead of Nazi-Germany from 1933-1945.

And it was really a very complex situation - with very fast and faster changes. When I say here now for example that the Reds (Socialists, Commies) changed in lots of cases only the color and became brown (Nazis) - and after world war lots rechanged the color again and became red again, then this is an important factor too - but it would also be wrong not to see, that lots of Reds had been in resistance against Hitler too - but they had not a big chance. No one had a big chance. Nevertheless more than 40 times Germans tried to kill Hitler, what were more attempts of assassination as against all other German leaders in the 1200 years before.

I had now to go in a lot of details when I would like to try to speak about Christians and Nazis from 1933 - 1945 - but you will not understand a lot, because you are not familiar with the German history.
But what everyone is easily able to understand: In Germany got on traditional reasons everyone a bible from the state, when they married. Hitler changed this. Everyone got now his book "Mein K(r)ampf" from the state, when he married. Was Hiter a Christian to do so? And in Germany exist traditional 2 marriages. One at a civil registry office - and one in a church. Nearly no one (exceptions confirm this rule) of the leading Nazis and the members of the SS had married in a church. (But not everyone was on his own free will in the SS - this is also a very complex part of history).

In general based Nazism on atheism. Some of the Nazis discussed for example whether Nietzsche was the only philosopher for the Nazis or whether others should also be allowed to be philosopers of the Nazis too. Indeed the Nazis did not understand the philosoper Nietzsche - but they saw in his atheism an imoportant factor of their own ideology. Another important factor was "Darwinism" - superior race and inferios race for example were reasons for murder in teh exaes kif th Nazis. Himmler murdered Jews, because he saw in them an inferior race? Most people think this is true. What do you think? Exactly. It is wrong! He murdered Jews, because he saw in them a superior race.

 

[presonorek]

As Christians "we" allowed him to write our songs, lead our praise, whatever. This is a problem. We are not well-rooted, and that's a problem.

I totally agree but see no solution. Modern Christianity is about saying the sinnner's prayer, attending church and permanently "going through a hard time". The K-Love genre or "praise" genre glorifies suffering. Who wants to live a life focusing on an once in a lifetime event of "getting saved", attending an intellectually empty church service and searching for opportunities to go through a hard time?

Christianity somehow has morphed into what it is but there are no successful reformers available. Christianity is what it is. It still has a few hundred years left. So it is fine for now just the way it is.

We will all die way before Christianity does. So if you like it just enjoy it for the rest of your life. It will likely be there for you.

You WILL face hard times either with or without GOD's help. I much rather have it. I find Christianity very stimulating and intellectual. Those that reject it seem to depend on Christians to stimulate their thoughts of opposition. Without Christianity, what would you then complain about and what moral stones would you find to throw?

I am not exactly sure what you are asking. I find the Bible to be very stimulating and intellectual. I find Christianity to be sad.

Here are the rules:
1. Be miserable.
2. Attend church.
3. Give money.
4. Repeat steps one thru three.
5. Cry uncontrollably when life sucks. The more your life sucks, the more holy you are. So strive for maximum misery.
6. Make good prayer requests. The more pitiful the situation the person is in, the more compassionate you appear.
7. When missing church, make sure you explain why you missed church before someone has a chance to say they missed you last Sunday.
8. Never discuss the Bible unless it coincides with your church covenant.
9. When you don't understand something, never ask questions. NEVER!! This is known as heresy.

 

[Picaro]

Marty Sampson of the band Hillsong has recently renounced his Christian faith. It happens. However, his statement about this was shocking. Here is a man who was a "worship leader" for some twenty years. And this is what he has to say on leaving the faith:

Time for some real talk. I’m genuinely losing my faith, and it doesn’t bother me. Like, what bothers me now is nothing. I am so happy now, so at peace with the world. It’s crazy.

This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me.

I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the “I just believe it” kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God. Got so much more to say, but for me, I keeping it real. Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others.

All I know is what’s true to me right now, and Christianity just seems to me like another religion at this point. I could go on, but I won’t. Love and forgive absolutely. Be kind absolutely. Be generous and do good to others absolutely. Some things are good no matter what you believe. Let the rain fall, the sun will come up tomorrow.

Hillsong Songwriter Marty Sampson Says He’s Losing His Christian Faith | RELEVANT Magazine

He was upfront, leading Christian worship (!) for twenty years (!) and he could not wrap his head around why there were "no more miracles". To him the Bible is "full of contradictions". (How often did he study it?). Hell is a big one, I will grant him, but his understanding of it reads like every 17 year old sniveling atheist.

His entire post does not read like someone who was apparently not only in the faith for 20 years, but LEADING and CREATING songs of the faith for 20 years. Which is a whole 'nother topic about the inanity of modern Christian worship music, but I digress.

In closing this is what happens when the church becomes about tickling ears and not about teaching truth, even when it's uncomfortable.

Unfortunately, this is not going to get better.

Sampson, who for years has written songs for and toured with the popular music group Hillsong United, recently announced on social media that he was losing his faith. He subsequently clarified that he had not renounced Christianity entirely but that his faith was on shaky ground. The original Instagram post where he said he was losing his faith has since been deleted.
Marty Sampson responds to Skillet's John Cooper: I was being honest, not trying to draw attention

When Marty Sampson Shared His Faith Struggles, Here's What He Did for Others

I think many people re-evaluate or take stock multiple times throughout their life no matter what their belief system, or the lack there of, is. It is fitting for any individual to outgrow Hillsong or multiple other megachurches. Judaism and Christianity are replete with characters encountering a crisis of faith.

Sampson may not be leaving Christianity but simply evolving. I'm not saying that to leave Christianity is to evolve. I'm saying that Hillsong itself appears to be devoid of a lot of things that some of it's ex-members are seeking and while that may appeal to a certain type of individual to many others it's not. It's probably why his questions appear to be from a 17 year old atheist.

From the Book of Robert of Frost

Chapter 1 Verse 4
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.



Marty Sampson can have a journey as well.

The difference is this. "I've been married for 25 years and quite happily so, here's some advice on being married"

vs.

"Yeah me and my wife are separating after 25 years of marriage--here's what I think of making a happy marriage"

EVERYONE is very eager to hear the latter when it comes to Christianity. Ever notice that? That is what gets a lot of play and attention. No one gives a rip about the former.

There has been an uproar over this church that is believed to be forcing a change in the format of services to compete.

This is a format that a lot of people appear to be really unhappy with.

Perhaps, it's a gift.

Or perhaps people should listen to more than one minister all the time. It's complex theology, some are going to get lost, others will expand their experiences and do fine. If all you listened to were sermons by Osteen, who doesn't pretend to be a theologian or intellectual, then naturally you will see a lot of disappointment, for instance, since there is far more to it than what just one minister can ever cover, hence why there are so many different ones out there. It's also a very social religion, meant to be discussed and argued over among members themselves.

Judaism is far older; how much uniformity does one find in it? The old yiddish joke re if you find two Jews arguing theology at a bus stop you will hear three opinions is a joke told from experience.

Wouldn't that be the gift? Intrinsic motivation to change? There are people that are in church every Wednesday and Sunday and they are satisfied. There are others that decide they need to learn Koine Greek. Both can happen and at different stages of one's life. I agree that it should be discussed and argued but there are churches where that doesn't occur.

I read the weekly parshah and multiple interpretations from different Rabbis. The same Rabbi can offer different insights each year. I love it.

To clarify I meant 'argued' in the formal sense, not the 'let's brawl and swap sophistry til we're bored stupid' sense. And yes, some people, perhaps the majority, should probably just stick to the 'Sermon On The Mount', with some education on what is being said, the only 'public' sermon Jesus gave; the problem with it is that too many will assume it means some sort of extreme pacifism, when it doesn't, and a couple of other errors.