My CREATOR is the Sum Total of the Laws of the Universe.

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by gautama, Aug 4, 2009.

  1. gautama
    Offline

    gautama BANNED

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,355
    Thanks Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +336
    MY CREATOR

    PART ONE:

    Most people feel that the reason they are agnostic but prevented from being an atheist is that according to the UNANIMOUS OPINION of the Greatest Philosophers of Mankind: "The existence of god cannot be proven or disproven". And that opinion of the Greatest Philosophers of Mankind (which can be verified by calling any Chairman of the Philosophy Dept of any reputable University in America, or the World) leaves most people with the erroneous opinion that the idiotic mysticism promulgated by the Organized RELIGIONS of the World is the only other option regarding the existence of a Creator.To wit, if you believe in a CREATOR.....then it's gotta be the CREATOR of one of the Organized Religions of the World.

    Religion is NOT based on FACTS. Religion is based on unprovable FANTASIES. And, to the Religious their FANTASIES are FACTS For instance, to the Christians, people walking on water is a FACT. So is people rising from the dead .... a FACT, etc. The anomaly that these FACTS do NOT exist in REALITY is simply IGNORED. Thus, the fatal flaw of Religions is that all of them IGNORE the limitations that SCIENTIFIC or RIGOROUS PHILOSOPHICAL PROCESS imposes on them. Religions dwell in the realm of FANTASY where ANY ANOMALY is possible. Any anomaly is accepted as FACT.....depending on which religion you accept. Thus, logically, one should not be ridiculed if one believes in the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER (undoubtedly, with a noodle-like appendage).

    Most people erroneously think that the ONLY reason to be an agnostic is that the rejection of a RELIGIOUS GOD means the rejection of a CREATOR....and THIS they cannot accept because to them the wonderous Universe's existence (and their own existence) is so structured that a random happenstance is inconceivable.

    I wrestled with this dilemma throughout my formative years. And I am rather proud of the fact that I came to the following conclusion: To accept the bizarre mysticism of the Organized Religions of the World, (for example: people walking on water, a virgin is NOT a virgin, i.e. A not equal to A, people rising from the dead, etc) is nothing short of being delusional. So....there had to be another version of a CREATOR. (Contnd).
     
  2. gautama
    Offline

    gautama BANNED

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,355
    Thanks Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +336
    MY CREATOR

    PART TWO

    The only other version of a CREATOR that made sense to me, the version that fits the REALITY on Earth, the belief where one doesn't have to believe bizarro events i.e., such things as Uncle Harry being dead, suddenly arising from the dead, and is scarfing a hamburger at Burger King's around the corner, or "A" = NOT "A", etc is.............that the CREATOR is simply the SUM TOTAL OF ALL THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE.

    WHAT ARE THE FACTS ??? WHAT IS EVERYDAY REALITY ???

    Answer: When humans die they turn into fertilizer.....no different than a dog, a cockroach, etc.

    And the idiotic delusion that PRAYERS somehow MIRACULOUSLY changes REALITY to satisfy the selfish wishes of someone who dutifully grovelled to a RELGIOUS GOD is not only delusional...it really verges on either gross STUPIDITY or INSANITY.....when considering the REALITY of the results of one's prayers. Statistically, one gets the identically same results from praying to the nearest rock in your garden !!!

    Prayers to the ULTIMATE LAWS OF NATURE is like praying to the LIGHTNING, exhorting it to not strike you.

    Guess what ? To my utter amazement, my conclusions, prior to any info about either Einstein's or Spinoza's on this topic, were almost identical to Einstein's. And, Einstein's God was Spinoza's God. Both of them reached the almost identical conclusion.
     
  3. HUGGY
    Offline

    HUGGY I Post Because I Care Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    33,727
    Thanks Received:
    3,805
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    Seattle, in a run down motel
    Ratings:
    +6,285
    So who IS yor creator?...The Devil? Mine were Natalie and Dwight.
     
  4. dattaswami
    Offline

    dattaswami BANNED

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    102
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +2
    God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The beginning and the end of the cosmic energy or space or the creation are also unimaginable. Therefore, the beginning and the end are unimaginable for the unimaginable item like God and also for the imaginable item like space. Therefore, the two points, which are the beginning-less and end-less characteristics cannot help you in understanding the real nature of God. If you start recognizing the God by simply these two points (beginning-less and end-less), you may think that God is an imaginable item like the space or energy or the creation. In fact based on these two characteristics people have imagined God as an imaginable item like space or energy or creation. This concept has misled people to such a low level that people think that God is the very infinite space or infinite energy or infinite creation. Therefore, one should filter the concept of God at this juncture itself. One should think that God has no beginning and no end because the beginning and the end of an unimaginable item are also unimaginable.

    Such God desired to create this Universe for entertainment. The very desire itself is the Creation. In view of God this present materialized universe in only an idea or imagination or the very desire itself. Therefore, the desire to create the world is itself the desire and also the created world itself is a desire. Thus the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the imaginary world are also imaginations or desires. A part of this infinite creation is the individual soul. The soul is like a drop of the infinite ocean of imagination or desire of God. Thus, quantitatively the entire ocean of imagination of God is very huge compared to the tiny soul. Remember that both the Universe and the tiny soul are made of the same substance called as imagination or desire. Thus the force of the Universe is far greater than the force of the soul. Due to such huge quantitative difference of the same phase, the Universe, which is far stronger than the soul appears as a materialized entity for the soul. But this infinite ocean of desire, which is the infinite Universe is a tiny drop compared to the infinite force of God. Therefore, again due to the same quantitative difference of force the entire universe is just the very weak imagination from the view of God. Thus imagination and materialization exist simultaneously true from the point of God and soul.

    For the sake of entertainment, God desired to create the Universe. This statement is in Veda (Sa dviteeya Maicchat). In this statement there is a very subtle intermediate stage, which is the essence of the desire to create the Universe. The desire to create the world is like the golden ornament but the essence of such desire is like the raw gold in which the ornament is not yet expressed. Such raw essence of the desire is pure awareness. The pure awareness is a special subtle form of energy, which is not qualified by any form. Such pure awareness is called as the spirit, which is not qualified and does not have any attribute. This is called as “Nirguna Brahman”, which means the pure awareness, which has no reference to the creation of the universe.


    It is a very critical and subtle point to recognize the pure awareness. Veda says that only very very sharp intelligence can grasp that critical state (Drushyate Tvagraya bhuddhya). Sankara, the topmost genius among the spiritual preachers could grasp that state and proposed the concept of Nirguna Brahman or non-qualified pure awareness. Such pure awareness is the first creation of God (Parabrahman). This first creation is almost as critical and unimaginable as the very Parabrahman itself. The only difference is that Parabrahman is absolutely unimaginable for any sharp intelligence, but this pure awareness is imaginable only for a very sharp intelligence. This pure awareness is called as Mula Prakriti or Suddha Sattvam or Mula Avidya or Mula Maya or the Spirit in general. The Parabrahman maintains such spirit and it is only an associated item and is the first created item. The word Mula means the first. This spirit is in the form of knowledge. It is aware of itself, which means that it is knowledge. Knowledge requires both subjective and objective characteristics. It is subject as well as the object. Therefore, it is called as knowledge or Sattvam. This knowledge is the first form of energy.

    Universal-Spirituality
    Universal Spirituality for World Peace
     
  5. HUGGY
    Offline

    HUGGY I Post Because I Care Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    33,727
    Thanks Received:
    3,805
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    Seattle, in a run down motel
    Ratings:
    +6,285
    That's the lamest longwinded circular logic bullshit I have seen in defense of the existance of god. Thanks for wasting my time.

    Now back to kicking your dumb asses......:eusa_whistle:
     
  6. BrokenAngel
    Offline

    BrokenAngel Do broken wings mend?

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    211
    Thanks Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +27
    Why are you so overheated about this!? Breathe, relax... take a step away from any sharp objects, ok....

    Now that you are feeling better I have a silly question. Why is it that God has to be mysticism and hocus pocus? What if he were more like... lets see who is a good example... Ahh! Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen? ^_^

    Religion and piety are acts of the heart and soul. People don't believe in them because they would rather be sitting in a hutch somewhere, shaking a rattle and praying for the pnemonia to clear out of the lungs of a child. You have faith because it fills you with a love, warmth, and completeness you didn't feel before. You have faith because, for you, it all simply makes sense, as if you can see past the actual world and simply understand.

    It is a different journey for every individual and no one is going to tell you your beliefs are stupid or irrational so the tirade is uneeded on the rest of us. Hope you get a massage soon! You seem to need it heheh :tongue:
     
  7. HUGGY
    Offline

    HUGGY I Post Because I Care Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    33,727
    Thanks Received:
    3,805
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    Seattle, in a run down motel
    Ratings:
    +6,285
    Do you really talk to people like this in real life? I'd be afraid of getting tossed out a window in a tall building. Overheated? I have another example for you...That wacko in No Country For Old Men..the one with the "air gun". Serious...deliberate....no remorse. That is your god..we maketh ...he taketh.
     
  8. BrokenAngel
    Offline

    BrokenAngel Do broken wings mend?

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    211
    Thanks Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +27
    I actually couldn't make myself watch that movie. I kept falling asleep lol. And yes I do tend to talk like this in real life but I don't tend to talk about religion in real life. Most people get offended the instant you say you have faith for some reason, even if you don't argue that their beliefs are wrong. You say "I believe in God" and its like the mentally painted a bullseye on you and want to see you cry.

    Anyways hehe.. Why do you hate God so much? Or rather the idea of it? I am curious now because most atheists merely tell you that there is no such creator but you are saying He is a being without remorse that simply takes. Everything alright or do you need a hug?
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  9. gautama
    Offline

    gautama BANNED

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,355
    Thanks Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +336
    Huggy said: So who IS yor creator?...The Devil? Mine were Natalie and Dwight.

    The second part of Huggy's phraseology exposes Huggy as an ignorant person. And, usually, ignorance is a state of being that is largely attributed to being STUPID.

    Why am I even bothering to waste my time with Huggy's irrelevancy ? o Answer: Because thoughtful people reading this post will read my response to Huggy's question: "So who IS your creator". Thus, Huggy wallowing in his condescending "kick ass" posture inadvertently asked a meaningful question.

    IMO, No one is capable of knowing who or what God, or our Creator is. Each one of us pondering this question can only GUESS by considering the FACTS as we know them, or interpret them.

    I presented my ideas on this topic in Parts One and Two in the opening of this thread.

    Let me expand on my version of WHO or WHAT the Creator is. First, I don't believe in FANTASIES or MYTHOLOGIES documented in the annals of the Organized Religions of the World. The Bible, Quran, etc., are simply STORIES, laced with FANTASIES, handed down thru generations with very little credibility except for the fact that a Jesus, or a Mohammed actually existed as human beings.

    I reiterate: I DO NOT KNOW, NOR DO I ASSERT THE VALIDITY OF MY OPINION AS TO WHO OR WHAT MY VERSION OF THE CREATOR IS !!!

    IMO, no one in the course of human history past, present or future will EVER KNOW who the Creator is. Our minds are too inadequate to perceive such a complex concept that supposedly, IMO, has no begining nor an end.

    MY GUESS is that IF there is a Creator, and there may very well be one......The Creator, has no begining nor an end, and is the SUM TOTAL OF THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE.

    The MAGNITUDE of the concept of the Creator leads me to speculate that the Creator is EVERYTHING that "IS" and "IS NOT". And, this "IS" and "IS NOT" is not limited to the present time.....but for ALL TIME without begining or end.

    And that "IS" or "IS NOT" is not limited to human beings, their existence, or non-existence due to the time factor, etc.

    So, EVERYTHING in the UNIVERSE is the CREATOR.....WE, as human beings in TOTALITY are a superinfinitesimal part of the CREATOR...... as are elephants, cockroaches, apples, chairs....EVERYTHING....... including thoughts or non-thoughts of EVERYTHING.

    GOOD ??? EVIL ???? Does GOOD or EVIL exist ????

    Answer: OF COURSE GOOD and EVIL EXISTS......FOR US.

    We must label some events or actions as GOOD and EVIL to have a functioning society.

    But is there such a thing as GOOD or EVIL in the UNIVERSAL SENSE ????

    Of course NOT !!!

    Does a rat give a rat's ass as to what is or is not GOOD or EVIL for humans ?????

    Is there such a thing as an EVIL flood, or earthquake ???

    Of course NOT !!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2009
  10. Avatar4321
    Online

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,576
    Thanks Received:
    8,171
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,219
    Now that is a fantasy.

    God is our Father. And anyone can know that. They simply have to seek Him out as He asks and He will reveal Himself to them.

    But you presume that because you dont know, no one can or does and fail to seek, so you never find.

    You presume that Our Creator has no power to build our minds so that we can understand.

    I will never understand those of you who declare that no one including yourself has no knowledge of the divine and then expect people to acknowledge your views of diety as if yours is the only logical. If you dont know something, search for it! Dont just conclude there is nothing and then presume that your viewpoints should somehow be listened to.

    If i told you that no one can or ever will understand calculus including myself, then turned arounded and told you what I thought of derivatives, youd think i was absolutely insane and had zero credibility to speak on the subject. Im going to lecture you on a subject I dont know jack about. Look at me. I'm so smart.

    It just makes absolutely no sense.

    If you want to know the things of God, go to God. If you dont know about something, why pretend your well informed? I am not going to tell a bunch of people at NASA about astrophysics and pretend as though Im smart and they are stupid when i know very little about the subject and I know that I know nothing about the subject.

    Quite the opposite. I'd ask questions. And listen. Learn and puzzle things out myself as well.

    Am I the only one who feels this way?
     

Share This Page